Where is MAURA MURRAY

What is meant by "primary sources?"

Beagle wrote:

Can someone please enlighten me about this cyberstalking stuff? I don't understand it. What is the difference between cyberstalking and legitimate research about a person?
What if you think someone is cyberstalking you and you then feel the need to find out who they are? Are you then suckered into cyberstalking them?
Telling someone to take it to the police may be a nice sentiment, but in reality, LE's reaction is based on their department's budget.
How does all this affect a discussion board like this one? How are posters in danger of violating the law on this issue?
Until I find out more, I ain't saying nothing about anything to nobody. Period.
I'm really confused as to when free speech stops and harassment begins.

Beagle -- hope you're not talking about me! You gave us here your name so who could resist the impulse to google you? And then, when you seemed in trouble, several of us phoned you for a well-being check. If you want any ID info on our family, we're OK with sharing it! We're regular people! Any jokes here weren't meant as harassment, but soley joking around ---- if, indeed, it's me you were referring to. If not, good luck with it.

Beague --- I know I refer to "primary sources" as people like the auto body guy you talked to, maybe a security supervisor, maybe a friend of Maura's, that kind of source... not possibly unreliable stuff that's been reported in the media or word-of-mouth stuff. It's the stuff you and whiston have been doing.

I've watched only the first 10 minutes of this 43 minute video, but it's already pretty interesting. I was completely unaware of the term "trolling," but I sure do recall its having been used by someone on the MMM board in reference to a poster on this board. This is pretty scary stuff, so, again, JMO has, I think, a good point.

Here's the You Tube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Truly, my apologies..for not keeping up with the brain storming Topic...I am brain drained.
To reply to.... I forget who....
RE: Phffttt...for some reason was considered hurtful?,(I don't know why) It incited rage and scorn from some NH folks. Don't ask..I don't have a clue....So will try to stick with "Piffle"..

Visited with a local couple today (my age range)...from the area..(in fact within a mile
or 2 of Maura's "incident" site.) The visit wasn't more than an hour. I am still going over it in my mind...trying to understand. As with first meetings sometimes..."nice weather..bad thunder storms" yardi yardi..they both had humor...so I baited him with a grin "Been here all your life"..? Of course,
the reply.."Not yet".... I expressed my frustration in trying to get a teeny weeny bit of info. from HPD..regarding a teeny weeny family incident. I'll call 'em Fred n Ethel. Fred scoffed...and said they think they're the Secret Service...It went on from there....I just let them talk. I said that I had heard that they
caught the one who murdered T. Conrad. They hadn't heard anything. I asked them "what was the scoop on that MA girl who disappeared, down your way".. Answer.."forgot about that....guess she left her car and disappeared."..I didn't learn much...But, was surprised that Fred went on about how the money people ran the town...and the police like to grab the young boys/men. He said for money and power.
I asked him why he and some others didn't write or phone their selectmen. He sat forward and said
"Are you kidding...? we keep our mouths shut...they'd just blow us off.anyway...there's been a few who tried to speak their minds...then they get scared and back down...." He, at one point mumbled something about
"Freedom of Speech...ya right"....Ethel interjected a few times..but, mostly tapped him gently with her fingertips on his wrist..quietly saying "there isn't anything we can do about it"....
I maintained my composure, during the conversation....but, afterwards....headache, limp and tired....
I know that there will be some readers here that won't believe my account....I wish I didn't.
(and, I wrote only what I dared to share here)
Speaking of memory...I know, we weren't...but, in the first Forum ...was it said that the Police..either SP or Town had 70 pages of the first Forum....? If indeed they, whoever, is working on it...I hope THEY all realize that hundreds of people having been doing their best to keep Maura's name and cause alive.
I need a drink..it's dark enough now....

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
One of the biggest problems with Maura's case is that for a long time, there simply WAS no public view. Wasn't it you, Shack, who heard "oh, I heard they solved that" or "oh I heard they found her" several times in enquiring?
Another difficulty was that the public view was (at times intentionally) skewed. LE misrepresented themselves, sometimes seemingly accidentally, sometimes almost certainly on purpose. The same is true of media accounts of her case. As recently as last summer Fred was egregiously either misquoted or misunderstood (at best) in the Union Leader. That's one of the reasons Maura's web sites have existed.

I'll grant you that media misrepresentation is all too routine...and that Maura's father/family may need all the help they can get...but are the contributors on this forum working with Fred and/or his 'immediate' family? Or is this just a puzzle to be solved by the intellectually curious?

Many ideas have been tossed around here that may have no basis in fact.

There is little agreement about evidence, but an abundance of conjectural considerations that are impossible to verify.

Maura's original website seemed more respectful of her life and her family than the discussions that take place here. Just my opinion.

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>What paranoid illusions [sic]?

Is this whole thing a big game to you Beagle because after seeing your past several replies to me and JMO it is no wonder why there are not more new people contributing and voicing their opinion in this forum.
It seems clear that some on this forum couldn't care less what it might look like to the outside observer and if someone has the nerve to give their opinion even though it may be unpopular it is clearly not wanted or needed because it came from an "outsider" so continue on as before I ever posted. I'll check back and see if you are all here in another 4 years. How sad. I just don't get it.
I am not being chased off but leaving freely to join the long line of "outsiders" that have already left.

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>Stalking??? Frankly, I could use the company sometimes.
Seriously... Do you think there is a poster on this forum who is stalking another poster?
Do you know stalking to have occurred as a result of posting in a forum in which you participated?
How likely is stalking to occur, in your mind, from what you have read here? Why?

I'd hope stalking/cyber-stalking would not occur here. I am not accusing; just referencing the possibility in accordance with developments that have recently been questioned and are specific to the Kenney/McKay/Floyd threads.

Consider that Oh My was hurling accusations and naming names not long ago which came perilously close to cyber-stalking, in my opinion. Fortunately, that is past tense.

I won't be lingering here...but I question the validity of truly wild speculation as a means to the end of finding Maura.

At some point, I also hope there can be some agreement about certain facts being accurate and foundational building blocks...otherwise, these are just pages and pages of endless hearsay and fantasy...disagreement and confusion.

Again, from Wikipedia: Some cyberstalking situations do evolve into physical stalking, and a victim may experience abusive and excessive phone calls, vandalism of personal property, threatening or obscene mail, trespassing, and physical assault. Moreover, many physical stalkers will use cyberstalking as another method of harassing their victims.

Maybe she found out that spent fuel or other kinds of waste were concealed in the necks to be shipped to Unit XX in Council Grove, for example? Just a wild guess.

chickadee wrote:

Is this whole thing a big game to you Beagle because after seeing your past several replies to me and JMO it is no wonder why there are not more new people contributing and voicing their opinion in this forum.
It seems clear that some on this forum couldn't care less what it might look like to the outside observer and if someone has the nerve to give their opinion even though it may be unpopular it is clearly not wanted or needed because it came from an "outsider" so continue on as before I ever posted. I'll check back and see if you are all here in another 4 years. How sad. I just don't get it.
I am not being chased off but leaving freely to join the long line of "outsiders" that have already left.

Why didn't you simply answer Beagle's questions? You are assuming he was asking them tongue-in-cheek or something. You came on here and threw out claims that elements of discussion were "fantasy" and "paranoid" and so on ... and when asked which ones you had such views on, you don't reply but instead come back with this post. Everyone on here is disagreed with at some point, it's called "critical thinking" or it's called "correcting the record as to facts", etc. You are keeping yourself an outsider (as you say) by not clarifying what you mean when asked. You are keeping yourself an outsider by not participating when invited by questions to do so.

You missed the whole point of Quija's useful posts about the meaning and value of brain-storming/think-tanking, apparently.

And just as a general comment ... the discussion is wide open to anyone who wants to get involved, it's a public forum. And should we give a ding-dong diddly-squat what this discussion "looks like" to outside observers if it results in just ONE idea or production of fact that becomes a brick on the path to finding Maura Murray?

You all are bickering about bickering, sad but humorous at the same time..

WeWii wrote:

You all are bickering about bickering, sad but humorous at the same time..

Yes, isn't it? And your contribution tonight is to ... what, further this line of distraction? Tell me it ain't so!

Have seen much much better from you on here, would appreciate any thoughts you may have on recent ideas.:)

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>
Why didn't you simply answer Beagle's questions? You are assuming he was asking them tongue-in-cheek or something. You came on here and threw out claims that elements of discussion were "fantasy" and "paranoid" and so on ... and when asked which ones you had such views on, you don't reply but instead come back with this post. Everyone on here is disagreed with at some point, it's called "critical thinking" or it's called "correcting the record as to facts", etc. You are keeping yourself an outsider (as you say) by not clarifying what you mean when asked. You are keeping yourself an outsider by not participating when invited by questions to do so.
You missed the whole point of Quija's useful posts about the meaning and value of brain-storming/think-tanking, apparently.
And just as a general comment ... the discussion is wide open to anyone who wants to get involved, it's a public forum. And should we give a ding-dong diddly-squat what this discussion "looks like" to outside observers if it results in just ONE idea or production of fact that becomes a brick on the path to finding Maura Murray?

fair enough. chickadee may very well find you back here in 4 years. LOL in the interim, everyone can enjoy the intellectual exercise and process.

******
"Critical thinking is important, because it enables one to analyze, evaluate, explain, and restructure our thinking, decreasing thereby the risk of acting on, or thinking with, a false premise. However, even with the use of critical thinking skills, mistakes can happen due to a thinker's egocentrism or sociocentrism or failure to be in possession of the full facts. In addition, there is always the possibility of inadvertent human error."

"Critical thinking is based on concepts and principles, not on hard and fast, or step-by-step, procedures.[2] Critical thinking does not assure that one will reach either the truth or correct conclusions. First, one may not have all the relevant information; indeed, important information may remain undiscovered, or the information may not even be knowable. Furthermore, one may make unjustified inferences, use inappropriate concepts, fail to notice important implications, use a narrow or unfair point of view. One may be a victim of self-delusion, egocentricity or sociocentricity, or closed-mindedness. One's thinking may be unclear, inaccurate, imprecise, irrelevant, narrow, shallow, illogical, or trivial. One may be intellectually arrogant, intellectually lazy, or intellectually hypocritical. These are some of the ways that human thinking can be flawed.

Human thinking left to itself often leads to various forms of self-deception, individually and socially; and at the left, right, and mainstream of economic, political, and religious issues."
******

thanks to wiki ;)

Euro -- I had asked long ago if Maura had an aluminized mylar blanket (space blanket, real thin and light) and IIRC I was told that she probably did not have one in her trunk emergency kit. Never heard anything said about a sleeping bag, but JMHO that she didn't have one. She seemed lightly packed more for a motel than camping.

I did, however, find your research on UMass Outing Association (can't remember the real name) interesting. Was Maura a member? Or just aware of what UMass owned up there?

Just My Opinion wrote:

<quoted text>
fair enough. chickadee may very well find you back here in 4 years. LOL in the interim, everyone can enjoy the intellectual exercise and process.
******

I'm glad you're able to laugh at the possibility that Maura may not have been found in another four years. Personally, the same thought makes me ill.

(will disregard the rest of your post, as it's the weekend and I do that crap for a living....)

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>
Why didn't you simply answer Beagle's questions? You are assuming he was asking them tongue-in-cheek or something. You came on here and threw out claims that elements of discussion were "fantasy" and "paranoid" and so on ... and when asked which ones you had such views on, you don't reply but instead come back with this post. Everyone on here is disagreed with at some point, it's called "critical thinking" or it's called "correcting the record as to facts", etc. You are keeping yourself an outsider (as you say) by not clarifying what you mean when asked. You are keeping yourself an outsider by not participating when invited by questions to do so.
You missed the whole point of Quija's useful posts about the meaning and value of brain-storming/think-tanking, apparently.
And just as a general comment ... the discussion is wide open to anyone who wants to get involved, it's a public forum. And should we give a ding-dong diddly-squat what this discussion "looks like" to outside observers if it results in just ONE idea or production of fact that becomes a brick on the path to finding Maura Murray?

Before I became stupid and replied to this forum I was very happy being an outsider and that is where I will stay thank you.
As far as not answering any rapid fire questions thrown out one after the other to JMO and myself...... in my opinion the person asking the questions is playing a game and using this forum for a form of entertainment.
Much of the time they speak a language that only they understand the meaning of and other times can hold a meaningful conversation without all the gibberish.
I refuse to play this persons game.
And yes you should care what this forum looks like to outside observers. It's much better to have people laughing with you and not at you.

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, isn't it? And your contribution tonight is to ... what, further this line of distraction? Tell me it ain't so!
Have seen much much better from you on here, would appreciate any thoughts you may have on recent ideas.:)

Unbelievable!!! Here's someone that contributes ideas to this forum and Advocator asks them if the few words they said is their contribution to further the line of distraction.
Maybe everyone should e-mail their "contributions to Advocator to be approved and stamped "worthy" before replying.

Sigillum Reipublicae Massachusettensis

Penthestes atricapillus

chickadee wrote:

<quoted text>
Unbelievable!!!

Johnny Most?