Where is MAURA MURRAY

WTF wrote:

sorry for the double post.
It disappeared on me but apparently was in the system.
Bill

Yeah, it's been doing that lately.

When you don't know someone personally, it's hard to tell what's a joke and what's serious--ESPECIALLY on a message board.

More in a bit, have to go reread that.

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>We are now over 4 years later and what is the new evidence? Nothing that I have seen.

Exactly. And yet the police maintain they have more than 2500 pages of notes, which come to think of it isn't a whole lot. Sometimes what's weird about the evidence is precisely that--the LACK of evidence.

Not even the family gets involved with it.

That troubles me. The family has better fish to fry, more active avenues, and one would hope more information than we have, even if they're not at liberty to disclose it. THE FAMILY IS VERY ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN FINDING MAURA. What they are no longer involved in is an active web site forum for discussions. Had they felt they'd been able to stay involved in this sort of discussion, doesn't it stand to reason they'd have left their own forum open? Helena herself said she could no longer maintain the forum.

Our little corner is the least of things--at least I certainly hope so.

And speaking of "no new evidence" standing so closely in print near "the family isn't involved in it" (which come to think of it, we don't know--who ARE faceless people on the internet? And even if they don't post, we can probably rest assured that at least some are reading, at least until they get sick of the BS) it's probably not even worth pointing out again, since I'm sure you don't need reminding, that Fred fought tooth and nail for access to those 2500 pages of documents.

Here's another, probably unconnected, thought:

Obviously, the chain of evidence went straight out the window when LE returned all of Maura's belongings to her family (was it to Kathleen? I can't remember specifically.)

Then, months later, they ask for things BACK. Since they obviously aren't planning to use that as legal evidence in a court of law (since there's no way it's admissible) wouldn't it stand to reason that they actually want it for a REASON? Like, maybe there's something ON IT? Even if they can't use it to potentially prosecute someone if there was a crime committed, it does seem to indicate that they thought there might be useful information regarding Maura's whereabouts, intentions, etc.......

I mean, otherwise, what purpose does asking for things back serve, except for making them look dumb?(oh yeah, we forgot we're not supposed to release stuff) If it were that, wouldn't they be better off letting it slide by unnoticed?

Firecat, I always found that a strange unexplainable happening to take all the things back which were gathered from Mauras car.

I cannot dismiss the scanner call although one poster finds it strange only I report it. It happened about 7, despite the official report. Iknow 4 respected adults will confirm. It may have been simply intra-jurisdictional chatter, but I know what I heard.

paris wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks White Wash for stating the Trooper is actually a Deputy named Anne. I think that puts a rest to some things along with the idea that you cannot see because of the trees.

huh? The MAN that is a Grafton county Sheriff is not named Anne.

So does LE usually (ever) obtain a search warrant without some evidence that a crime has been committed? If, as we appear to know, HPD obtained such a search warrant, it is most likely that a crime was committed within their jurisdiction OR that they knew about from another agency. If the latter were true, there would be a record of that contact. There appears to be no such record.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Exactly. And yet the police maintain they have more than 2500 pages of notes, which come to think of it isn't a whole lot. Sometimes what's weird about the evidence is precisely that--the LACK of evidence.
<quoted text>

I can’t keep answering questions without getting at least some of mine answered.

You also don’t get to use the “the lack of evidence” is the evidence of a crime if that is what you are doing. I have heard others use that. If you can use that then I get to use the “it had to be aliens’ defense”. The lack of radiation at the scene is proof that it was aliens because they are the only ones that can prevent the radiation from being found.

Bill

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
I can’t keep answering questions without getting at least some of mine answered.
You also don’t get to use the “the lack of evidence” is the evidence of a crime if that is what you are doing. I have heard others use that. If you can use that then I get to use the “it had to be aliens’ defense”. The lack of radiation at the scene is proof that it was aliens because they are the only ones that can prevent the radiation from being found.
Bill

I didn't mean "lack of evidence OF A CRIME is the evidence of a crime" I simply meant that people don't vanish into thin air.

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
I can’t keep answering questions without getting at least some of mine answered.

Then, my friend, you're caught up in wondering about the wrong case.(that? was wry, ironic gallows humour in case it didn't translate)

Hello all posters,

All indicators are suggesting that there must have been a previous accident of some kind for Maura´s Saturn car to sustain the kind of frontal damage which was visible at the Weathered Barn curve in Swiftwater.
The frontal damage as such suggests a previous accident and so does the witness reports of overheard LE communication, mentioning an earlier accident in which the female driver left in "a private vehicle".

I know that I´m repeating myself here, but I keep asking myself why on earth there have been no known witness reports from people actually having seen the spot of the first, likely accident.

This being so would suggest that the first, likely accident (which probably caused the frontal damage to Maura´s car) occurred on a very minor back road with no traffic passing by and with no houses with people watching nearby.

Even so, why on earth is this first, probable accident involving Maura´s Saturn apparently not being confirmed by the powers that be?
There must be some very important reason for this wall of utter silence from the part of LE.

Let´s have some real debate here about this.
What are your thoughts and feelings about this?
Thanks!

My thoughts and feelings on this are extremely confused and conflicted. I trust Anne; I have no reason to doubt her memory of events.

I also find it very troubling that, should she have indeed remembered this event correctly, there seems to be no official record of it.

Given all the other missteps that have been PROVEN that were committed that night (as I teach in even my most developmental of classes, a fact is not open for debate; you may debate all you wish, but that doesn't make it any less a proven fact) I find it entirely possible that there was a misstep here.

Whether it was accidental or intentional, though? No idea. The more I think about this night, the less I know.

White wash said this about the trooper up the road. I just said Anne, but I meant Annie. See post #3693__________

I also took ride on Swifterwater Circle with a camera and Annie that is a Deputy not a Super Trooper that house 2/10th of a mile from the site.
It is also surrounded by descend trees not to mention the 2 corners and a Large Barn on one of them! Now how you can imply that Deputy could have
seen anything is beyond my eye sight and len

FireCat wrote:

My thoughts and feelings on this are extremely confused and conflicted. I trust Anne; I have no reason to doubt her memory of events.
I also find it very troubling that, should she have indeed remembered this event correctly, there seems to be no official record of it.
Given all the other missteps that have been PROVEN that were committed that night (as I teach in even my most developmental of classes, a fact is not open for debate; you may debate all you wish, but that doesn't make it any less a proven fact) I find it entirely possible that there was a misstep here.
Whether it was accidental or intentional, though? No idea. The more I think about this night, the less I know.

Firecat may I ask who the person was on the MMM forum that had stated they saw underwear around and in the vicinity of the tree with the blue ribbon?

Didn't the first report of a female sliding off the road happen in another jurisdiction? Which Swiftwater location they were referring to is unclear.
It would be amazingly difficult to drive a car with such a crooked headlight.
One idea is that Maura slid off and into something, was hit in the street for lack of being seen until too late, or an opportunist took her car further on, until they blew it at the curve, and that a male and female were in on this together. About that......could be Maura and friend or Male and female, no Maura at all.
Who knows what was really said that night. For all we know there were two people reported at the scene and they only want to say one. And why not, but the main idea is the car wound up in a different jurisdiction than the one where "female left in private vehicle"'
This makes it harder to trace the first "accident" if it was intentional, to take the car further on.....

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
Firecat may I ask who the person was on the MMM forum that had stated they saw underwear around and in the vicinity of the tree with the blue ribbon?

that would be me.

paris, I think white wash was simply addressing me concerning the grafton sheriff on the corner...

bill, it certainly is true that lots of cars go off the road, and that people leave them for whatever reason, certainly not an unusual occurance. I do not think a clean white towel in an exhaust is a normal thing. I also believe everyone can look at the same scene and have differing and conflicting descriptions...but in my opinion, descriptions initially are too widespread and different. Even discounting the unconfirmed scanner chatter, I would say that was not Maura at the scene (just my opinion) I would ask why within 10 minutes, people were driving off to look for 'her'. One poster on a former forum came to the area the next morning and saw freshly knocked over guardrails away from where the car was found. Should we dismiss this too? What if this is the earlier accident and we let it go because it isn't Fact yet? I am not trying to argue here, I think if we all put our heads together, we can garner useful information.

paris wrote:

White wash said this about the trooper up the road. I just said Anne, but I meant Annie. See post #3693__________
I also took ride on Swifterwater Circle with a camera and Annie that is a Deputy not a Super Trooper that house 2/10th of a mile from the site.
It is also surrounded by descend trees not to mention the 2 corners and a Large Barn on one of them! Now how you can imply that Deputy could have
seen anything is beyond my eye sight and len

There's a trooper up the road too besides Eck? Right in that area?

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text>
that would be me.

By chance did you take any pictures ? Did you remove them?

looking for a moose, please take this as humorous..I don't dare join in another conversation about the grafton county sheriff with you....last time I did, all h--breaks loose! I do not think there is a trooper living that close. White Wash will know.

Firecat, I do want to make a note here, htat when I first joined the mmm board and the discussion centered on time, I simply knew the times being described were wrong. The point is-----this was long before whatever experts determined there was a prior accident to the Saturn. Whether a prior accident is fact or not, my statements concerning time is correct.

Hello all,

Considering the fact that practically all of Rte 112 between the US302 junction and the Weathered Barn is actually located within the town of Bath:

Anybody knows whether the LE records of the town of Bath - apparently only a part-time force - would indicate the possible existence of a previous acccident involving Maura´s Saturn on the Rte 112 west of the Weathered Barn?

Thanks!

1Anne wrote:

looking for a moose, please take this as humorous..I don't dare join in another conversation about the grafton county sheriff with you....last time I did, all h--breaks loose! I do not think there is a trooper living that close. White Wash will know.

Humor received.....and appreciated. Taking pictures through the trees this weekend.