Where is MAURA MURRAY

none wrote:

<quoted text>
I;m telling you people the police where somehow involved.......

You seem to feel very strongly about this. I'm curious--what makes you say this?(and I'm not doubting you or attacking you. I just want to know if there's information, or if this is your gut speaking, or what)

sophie bean wrote:

Whiston, thanks for clarifying about "H1" - I was getting even MORE confused than usual!

....wow. That'd be pretty confused.

who owns / drives the black Bronco-like vehicel with the stencilled #1? this appears to be a locally familiar vehicle - it shouldn't be so hard to determine. Shack, is it really Lincoln PD? If so, did they file a report?

I believe if you go back to Weeper's most recent post, he cleared that up. That Bronco **IS** H1...they are one and the same....and so presumably is owned by HPD and was operated by CS.

As usual, Weeper, if I'm lyin' I'm buyin'.:)

I had been wondering if tonight's 20/20 is to be a re-run of March 2006....it appears that
there will be updates (personally, I hope for a longer segment of Maura, that I recall)

copy/paste:

Watch "20/20" tonight at 10 p.m. to learn of the latest developments in the cases.
There are devastating answers for the Brooke Wilberger's family, and an equally
painful lack of answers for Maura Murray's family.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

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Hey Sandy,
I am not sure if you may have been referring to my earlier post. The heroine/drug sting I mentioned happened in a town, which was the hub for the trafficking operation, in Rockingham County.

I was referring to the quoted post by Advocator "This may be of interest ...
http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshir ...
"Police serve scores of warrants in Grafton Co.

HAVERHILL, N.H.—State, local and county authorities, joined by federal agents, have served scores of arrest warrants in New Hampshire's Grafton County.""

hi all, if sgtSmith was at goose lane at 7.10 pm he was 2 minutes from the saturn.he did not arrive for 35 more minutes .at 7.10 p.m. as far as we know the saturn was not at the final resting place but maybe it was.it would be 17 more minutes before the call was recieved by p.d.i am using the times from the accident report.the fact that sgt Smith noted the tire tracks in the snow makes me think they were fresh.the timeline in my mind is a mess.who drove the saturn to where it was found and where was it moved from.could someone type here the timeline from the police log not just for me but for all the new people which will hopefully start reading after the 20/20 show.was the thud that Westmans heard someone being hit by a car and being dragged down the rd leaving a scent trail.philip

hi all one more thing the witness was passed a second time on rt 112 within 2 minutes of the saturn going towards the saturn ,still that was around 7.15 p.m. and the same police car was at the saturn when they got there.this had to have been before the Westmans called 911.please let me know if any of this is wrong my brain hurts.philip

FireCat wrote:

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....wow. That'd be pretty confused.
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I believe if you go back to Weeper's most recent post, he cleared that up. That Bronco **IS** H1...they are one and the same....and so presumably is owned by HPD and was operated by CS.
As usual, Weeper, if I'm lyin' I'm buyin'.:)

Firecat, you are correct, it is one in the same vehicle.

Wheston, yes there does seem to be a discrepency between the witness statement and the police accident report. Draw your own conclussions about this and take into account the intire accident report, you may find several other problems with that. The Grafton County Dispatch log was previously posted (I believe on the MMM site) and I am not obliged to re-post it. You can find the accident report on the exsisting MMM site however, and if one looks at EVERY block, and word in the report you may be left scratching your head. Print this document out and when I say EVERY block and word, take a highlighter and highlight every part that seems odd. When you've completed this "document evaluation" in this manner, if you have more than six (6) highlighted oddities they're not there by "mistake". Note the time the report was writen and the information in this "official public document" and draw your own "reasonable" conclussions, if you will.

Sophie, please read the information provided to you before posting your questions, as Firecat pointed out. The "dog-hit" at the A-frame was stated as "possibly being minsterl secretions" from a laundry hamper (in the closet)on the second floor or any blood/human secretions from clothing "near/under" a washing machine on the first floor. The dogs hit on both locations and the carpet was removed from the first floor. We handled this material as is expected in our field and sent half to the NHSP. We never expect any return information from the LE community nor do we want it. The reasons for this have been stated earlier.

You all need to keep in mind that in the process of a criminal "on-going investigation" even "public information" can be(and often is)witheld from public scrutiny. If you can't understand the reasoning for this, take up needle-point rather than investigations. I'm not being funny about this, I mean it.

Respectfully
Weeper

Philip, this is the best I can do from my faded blurry pages....
and faded and blurry brain.
I am sure that someone here can do better for you.
Log page 19 6:08PM Petticoat Lane PO42, CS..arrived 6:10PM cleared 6:25PM
Narrative: H2 off with 2 snowmachines, H2 clear, warning for lights .........

7:27PM MV crash...call from FW..PO42, CS, Disp. 7:29PM, arrived 7:46PM

Perhaps the Chief was driving H1..?.seen by witness on way back from hospital?
OR ....CS went back to station and switched from H2 to H1...? I dunno...

The accident report and Log are so confusing.

Philip, I wouldn't worry about your brain hurting....if it's not hurting one isn't thinking hard enough about the discrepancies in this case.....

hi Shack and all and thank you for this.the accident report and log are confusing because one or both of them is wrong.Weeper, i am on it and thank you .one more maybe odd thing as i uderstood hpd was shorthanded at the time is it odd to have that number of officers working on a monday was something 'up' in woodsville take care philip

[edit in]
Gosh, that doesn't sound a bit "respectful" to me - and I stopped and reread my posts, other posts and Weeper's posts before making this one. I don't know if I should be shocked or not. Maybe not.
[end edit]

Weeper, I thought that I was reading closely, perhaps not. I remember Shack saying a while ago - and it was news to me - that there was menstrual blood present. I do not recall hearing that it was in a laundry hamper. I have always said very carefully that I do not want any information that is not appropriate for the public at this point. I've said this more times than I can count or remember.

However, it is my understanding that a police report is a matter of public record, not merely for prurient curiosity, but as a matter of citizen oversight of government. I am not just asking questions to be clever, gossipy, inquisitive or "funny" - even though I am not a professional investigator (my bad, apparently). If you think, Weeper, that I am here and have been here for several years now, because I find it in some way an interesting hobby, guess again. This is painful and hard and wrenching, and I want some answers, not for me, for Maura, for Helena, for Maura's family. You seem to think that I should stop asking questions that are, apparently, stupid, imprudent and intrusive.

Guess it must be time for me to take up needlepoint, or some other more constructive hobby, eh, Weeper?

Easy there, sophie. I don't think Weeper meant to be anything other than his usual helpful self.(And my comment about being more confused than usual etc....was supposed to be a joke. I hope you took it as such!)

I think this is the first ANY of us have heard about the menstrual blood/possibly bodily fluid from anyone other than Shack and her two brief comments on it, at least as posted directly on this forum. Where has this been said before? It was a surprise to me, too. If it was in a linked document, I completely missed it as well.

FireCat, I did know that you meant that as a joke, and that's fine.
I still find Weeper's scolding tone about a subject which is clearly news to many of us to be offensive. I'm getting a bit tired of the "you all need to do thus and so" routine. This is all quite difficult enough without having snippets of information doled out and being lectured about what to do with them and what not to do.

All I knew about these findings at the A-frame was what Shack posted. I'd previously heard "dogs hit on possibly body fluids" and also "not blood." I believe that Shack mentioned "possibly menstrual blood on a closet floor" and that a carpet sample was taken. That's ALL I've ever read about this, anywhere.

For a long time, I've looked at Weeper's information as trustworthy. I am now strongly reconsidering that information, if it is such.

I kind of wish that there was a set of web tools available - for example - on question 8 (of many good questions by Sophie) it could be used by the group and be edited by maybe Fred - where he has been, or other volunteer searchers - who knows maybe law enforcement.
I don't know where or how - but I imagine a web page that if you click on a box, it will be marked as searched and then you could say who and when, plus who submitted the information. Perhaps methodology too (Dogs, brisk walk, poked rod in ground, Helicopter with infra-red, etc.)
What bugs me - nothing to do with anyone here - is that our search for the truth is analogous to the Board game Clue.
First problem: Our educated guesses are not limited to three things -(Person, Place Object -> Example Col. Mustard, Candlestick Library)
Second problem is: I myself am not sure if we are actually looking on the right "board" or not.(We could be guessing Col. Mustard with Candlestick on Boardwalk Avenue)
Third problem is: No one will tell us: "No it wasn't Col. Mustard, Candlestick in Library" or "That's a monopoly board - you are way off"
If we at least heard a "no" we could narrow down the implications of the facts. After going and guessing all the avenues and squares from Baltic to Boardwalk - we'd know we were on the wrong board.
My might try a U.S. Map next.(Col. Mustard, Candlestick South Dakota), No. But eventually we'd leave the Map, because we at least got a "no."
She goes to the liquor store in Massachusetts, we know about it. Her tank is full at the site - no one knows where she filled up, or if there was, was not a search at gas stations, what the results were, etc. Knowing that narrows it down.
I think that she could have been taken anywhere between White River Junction and the site. I really think that expanding the search is just too costly - so it wasn't been done by the police, so the hope was that it would resolve itself in the near area because it had to so to speak.
I think it will take a lot of money to find her.
My thoughts are that if they don't have a definite suspect (as a result of the staging theory) very soon - I can't imagine what could change to cause a break. Its not like new people are being talked to - or that they will give new answers - after 4 years.
Best hope is that someone will find the backpack or some item somewhere randomly.
Other then being extremely lucky - and one of us guessing something that might stir an officer to look somewhere - and the extreme luck happens that it leads to something - we're no more then a bunch of blindfolded folks in a room looking for something unknown, trying to just identify the things in the room.
"This feels like a 2 inch ruler"
"Nah, we figured out that was a beard comb."
"What are we looking for?"
"Don't know, might have been the beard comb, but I'm not sure if the guy that put us in here knows what we're looking for and if he did, he can't tell us"
"Ok."
"Hey I found something else. This feels like a towel...."
B. F.

I'm not particularly talking about geography, but of every possible relevant fact. I guess that's why the blindfolded room analogy is better.

After the program ...so many thoughts about the differences of action/inaction.
Well... you all saw it.(Hope the "knowing" watched and have nightmares)

I do want to add, that Frank is the only one of the detectives that does keep in
touch with us. He really doesn't have to. His occupation is just that...a Detective.
I KNOW he would like nothing better than to have this crime solved and the punishment fit the crime. I have experienced the nip of the Irish Terrier, but there is no scarring. If my daughter was missing, he'd be my Terrier.

On another topix I was reading from a poster that claims to know something about 3 missing persons. His location says Littleton. When re-reading through some of the posts on this topix, none of the major conspiracy buffs have posted from Littleton. Perhaps a previous respectable poster on here is either stirring the chit on another topix or finds this entertaining. Why would'nt they bring their info(or really lack of info, just a thought) to this topix?

To all,

Sophie, I wasn't scolding you in my last post. You stated in your post #4071 in paragraph #2 about an unknown Bronco after I explained the mix up about H1 Police vehicle. Then I explained about the dog hits you mentioned in your post #3 as possibly being from minstrel fluids from a hamper. I also explained the reasoning about "public" right to know versus an ongoing police investigation, that's just the way it is. I can't change that and I never thought you (or anyone else) are here for "purient curiosity" or to be funny. If you feel this way by what I've stated in my previous post you are taking this personaly and you should not because you have some very interesting perspectives. I have responded to issues on the MMM Forum to questions (from you and others)with complete honesty and I, quite frankly don't care if you feel it trustworthy or not, that's up to you. As to this evenings Dateline 20/20 report of Maura's disappearance, they report what they are given. Main Stream Media has played an important role in keeping the Murray family's plight in our minds and hearts, believe a third of what you hear, half of what you read and ALL THAT YOU EXPERIENCE. If you give me the benefit of the doubt and believe half of what I tell you, you will be ahead of MSM.

WeWii, I wouldn't take to much stalk in what you've heard/read on that issue. I've read the same stuff and won't waste any more time on this person's foolishness, of course that's up to you.

As I've stated to you all, I don't have a thin skin and expect no alpologies from any of you, nor will I give any if your feelings get hurt by what I post, take up needlepoint if you can't deal with it.

Respectfully,

Weeper
PS sense Shack has addressed me as Frank, my name is Francis Patrick Kelly.

Hello all,

Kindly tell me a bit about the 20/20 TV report on Maura´s case.
What did you think of it?
Being in far-away Sweden I was understandably unable to watch myself.
Many thanks!

hi Euro and all.if i had not known what i think i know about Maura Murray the show would have made me curious so i hope other people strt wondering and looking.take care philip