Where is MAURA MURRAY

WTF wrote:

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The problem I have with the helper theory is that why has neither of them have ever come forward. Why wouldn’t these helpers come forward if they exist? If you don’t believe the same fate befell the helpers that befell Maura than they are probably around so why not come forward. They must have been at least an acquaintance of Maura if not actual friends. Unless they are co-conspirators in her abduction? Is that the theory? I guess that is possible but nothing on the atm or other video appears to bear that out that we are aware of. Does anything in the car suggest that another occupant was in the car? Did anyone leave anything behind in the race to get away from the car that suggests that? Was there room for a third person in the back seat the way the car was packed? I would think that if a video showed another person interacting with Maura that person would have been checked out. Wouldn’t the reward that was offered been incentive to squeal. Unless no one knows anything. I don’t know the answers to these questions so I am asking them.

Hello WTF/Bill,

As for Maura´s possible helper(s) my thought would be that he/she/they might well be so deeply loyal to Maura that he/she/they for whatever reason is/are keeping absolutely quiet about the whole thing.
Out of loyalty to Maura (because of a realisation that she for some reason needed to get away from Amherst) and perhaps also out of some self-interest in one way or other.

There is also another,more sinister kind of possibility:

Even though I think it highly unlikely that Maura herself would have been involved in the Petrit Vasi hit-and-run case in Amherst a few days before Maura´s vanishing, I couldn´t rule out the possibility that Maura´s (or rather her father´s) Saturn may have been temporarily driven by a friend of Maura´s, who conceivably might have hit Vasi.

The Saturn was supposed to be traded in for a newer car (for Maura) rather soon and if it (the Saturn) had been in any way involved in the Vasi hit-and-run it had to be disposed of as quickly as possible.

Where better to do that than in the vast wilderness of the White Mountains National Forest or for that matter more or less anywhere in the White Mountains area?

If Maura out of pure kindness had let a friend of hers use the Saturn and that friend in a possibly inebriated state hit Vasi late at night on Thursday 5th February....

If that friend of hers somehow threatened, forced or coerced Maura into a tangled scheme to get rid of the Saturn...then I would only look upon Maura as a victim of devious circumstances and, quite possibly, a devious "friend", who one way or other may have directly or indirectly caused Maura´s disappearance.

IIRC Maura called a UMass Amherst telephone number just a few hours before leaving Amherst on 9th February. That particular phone number apparently was linked to a person who later was said to "have moved on", whatever that phrase indicates.

In my mind this person could well have been the one possibly responsible for the Petrit Vasi hit-and-run case, and thus perhaps the person ultimately responsible for Maura´s heartachingly monstruous disappearance, directly or indirectly.
Just a gut feeling of mine, but all the same....

There is really a lot in the past couple of days that seriously bears ignoring - all of the "you people from..." "you and your agenda..." yardi yardi yardi (can I use that one, Shack?).

My "agenda"?
To find Maura, hopefully safe.
End of list.

No, I do not "believe" that a "rogue cop" abducted Maura. I do think that it's possible that a LE imposter abducted Maura - we've had a poster here who was the victim of one such person. I distinctly remember the "interstate man / rapist" discussed by Silky. Surely no one is saying that that was a hoax or something?
I don't think that a rogue cop abducted Maura, but I also think that it's foolish to say categorically that it couldn't have happened.
We don't KNOW what happened.

I think that local LE was negligent in their handling of the case from the beginning - as Quija has so thoroughly explained - and if they hadn't been, Maura might be here today. I also think that Scarzina's scornful, callous, libelous attitude is unconscionable.

None of this is saying that LE caused Maura's disappearance. It is saying that they may have prevented it, and they should have handled it better. They should also KNOW that they should have handled it better, and I'm shocked that they don't seem to realize that.

Quija wrote:

How many (almost a half-hour between accident #1 and #2) other vehicles would have passed the scene? What did they see? For someone to extricate the car, did it take enough time for a few witnesses to pass?

Hello Quija,

This is something that have always intrigued me as well.
Provided the first accident actually occurred on Route 112 it surely should have been seen by at least some passing motorists.
If, however, the first accident did not happen on Rte 112, but on one of the many minor roads criss-crossing the area south of Rte 112, I would imagine that there may have been no witnesses to whatever happened.
The fact that there appears to be no publicly known witnesses to such a first likely accident, makes me believe that it may well have occurred on a minor road south of Rte 112.

Advocator wrote:

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Question about the codes "H2" (requesting BOL) and next day "H6" (needs BOL). If H1 means "Haverhill 1" referring to the black Bronco-style police unit that Sgt. Cecil Smith was driving the night of Feb 9, then do H2 and H6 also refer to Haverhill police units? If they do, does anyone know who they were?

H2 is Cecil Smith and H6 is Byron Charles ... forget what Mac Cashin was but it is listed on the Sheriff's report. May be the number of the car they are driving.

Lady Gray wrote:

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Rumor #1 is no surprise to me. Rumor #2.......why would a policeman from Franconia and a policewoman from Woodstock arrive in the same car?
Are you saying they responded to the scene (meaning they were there) or are you saying they approached (meaning they headed in that direction) the scene from that direction? A distinction between the two. This kind of thing is important in reporting writing.

Lurking for a long time now but having heard a similar rumor to Lightnin thought I would post what I have heard.

The rumor surfaced after Kathy Brunell supposedly took her own life.

A group of northern NH people were planning to offer Maura's family man power and ATV's to search a place called Glencliff on Route 118.
I don't know if any search ever occurred.

Because there was mention of Glencliff my assumption would be that they were supposed to have taken Maura there. This is only my assumption.

My thought at the time was also what would a Franconia Policeman and a Policewoman from Woodstock be doing in the same car. Then I found the McKay motel thing which I also thought was very odd because(correct me if I'm wrong)it seemed he was out of his jurisdiction.

I proceeded to ask around about Kathy Brunell but found only that quite a few people think she did not end her own life. I was never able to find out where she was on 2-9-04.

It was said that McKay and Brunell were headed west in a car and picked Maura up.It is not known if they were at the scene where her car was but were supposed to be heading in that direction.

None of this was really ever verified that I have heard about and I am inclined to believe it was rumor.

Sometimes though, I do find there can be some truth hidden in a rumor so I listen at all times.

Thank you ... Moses

Moses wrote:

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Lurking for a long time now but having heard a similar rumor to Lightnin thought I would post what I have heard.
The rumor surfaced after Kathy Brunell supposedly took her own life.
A group of northern NH people were planning to offer Maura's family man power and ATV's to search a place called Glencliff on Route 118.
I don't know if any search ever occurred.
Because there was mention of Glencliff my assumption would be that they were supposed to have taken Maura there. This is only my assumption.
My thought at the time was also what would a Franconia Policeman and a Policewoman from Woodstock be doing in the same car. Then I found the McKay motel thing which I also thought was very odd because(correct me if I'm wrong)it seemed he was out of his jurisdiction.
I proceeded to ask around about Kathy Brunell but found only that quite a few people think she did not end her own life. I was never able to find out where she was on 2-9-04.
It was said that McKay and Brunell were headed west in a car and picked Maura up.It is not known if they were at the scene where her car was but were supposed to be heading in that direction.
None of this was really ever verified that I have heard about and I am inclined to believe it was rumor.
Sometimes though, I do find there can be some truth hidden in a rumor so I listen at all times.
Thank you ... Moses

Your reign as a lurker is over!:o)

Thank you for elaborating on this rumor - your time is appreciated!

WTF wrote:

If Maura was actually trying to not be found and actively hiding during the search phase who do you hold accountable for the outcome?

I won't be able to answer that question until we know what the outcome WAS.

To whomever it was that was worried about BA on the bus vs. on foot, I'd presume it was "ran home" in the vernacular not literal sense. When I say, I'm going to run to the store real quick for milk" people do not assume that I am putting on my running shoes and spandex and hoofing it to the store.(though this might not necessarily be out of character for me).

So my assumption was always that Butch saying he "ran home" simply meant he hied himself to his residence with all due speed, as fast as his little yellow box on wheels could carry him.

And yes, I'm indulging in more whimsy than usual. It's not at your expense. It was just a rather long day.:)

But yes, it does once again indicate how important it is to be CLEAR AND CONCISE WITH OUR LANGUAGE.

Which is probably why the accident report is so infuriating. Because it's undoubtedly set up specifically to avoid these sorts of ambiguities. And in some cases, obviously, it fails.

Hello all,

First of all, many thanks to Lightnin & Moses for your contributions there. Rumour or not, some of the things you wrote in your posts made me really sit up and take notice.

Do you by any chance have any more informations as for the timing of that supposed search effort in Glencliff? This is something that I´ve never ever seen mentioned anywhere before...
Anybody else?
Quija, Advocator, Whiston, Shack, FireCat,sophie bean, mcsmom, paris and all other esteemed posters here? What do you say?

What is really going on in Grafton County, NH?
Considering the population figures of the area, the region seems to be exceptionally "cursed" by violent crimes and strange, seemingly unexplained events.
Now you´re also telling me about the policewoman Kathy Brunell, who apparently died under mysterious circumstances, a case which I didn´t previously know about, to be added to an already long list of murkiness and much worse.
I´m sorry to have to say this and risk offending any locals here, but "Twin Peaks" and "The X-files" come to my mind here.
To paraphrase Hamlet, something is apparently rotten in at least parts of Grafton County...

I've never been one to repeat rumors but my nineteen year old Godson was back home in NH, retrieving his hours for his Captains License, during the airing of 20/20 and finally spoke to me about Maura afterward.

He piped up and said, "That Police Officer McKay had something to do with Maura's disappearance". He would not elaborate on who he heard this from and I didn't press him but it is obviously what is being discussed in other parts of NH.

Elsewhere, Re: Agenda...what can I say ..? Yeh right...I am a lonely old busy body with no life of my own. That is why I stay, to hang out with
some of the same posters that were on the MMM Forum.(Out of the hundreds, a few do still stay)

In actuality, I have been reading archived Caledonian Record articles,..48 articles ref. Maura....2/18/04 to 2/9/2008.(as well as 20/20 transcript)
"I don't see a need for a search until we have a (solid) lead," Williams said.
This is just one sentence...yes, out of context, out of many of the same such remarks. Too many to copy/paste..I know I shouldn't judge attitude,
but there's a lot of that goin' around. So I stay here with the other caring.

Firecat yeh..long tiring day...Sophie and I were out all afternoon trying to find drama and intrigue to fill our empty days.

Mose and Lightening...more than half of what you both wrote were items to my knowledge..but, didn't dare mention....(I am only a part timer
in NH...from M ..ass achusetts and my words are taken as.....you fill in the blank...others will.)

I repeat what I wrote ...was there something written/learned in the past 4 1/2 years that would imply another person with her...? I truly don't understand. It has been mentioned here many times about a possible passenger..helper...?
Somebody from Amherst...Why..? 140 plus miles to do what could been accomplished within 5..50 etc miles. For her watch, telephone,
back pack...?..Rape ..kill..??...could have done that within 50 or so miles of Amherst.
If so...who else is missing...? I would think ie that if a person(s)accompanied her...from...
anywhere...have they been reported missing? Or did he/she/they just find their way
back to .?...and return to their life..? and kept mouths shut...?

RE: McKay...cleared Littleton 7:27P ,,,then he's in Franconia.@Motel...9:40ish
Nothing weird...except in Log "in the area of motel, unknown reason"
I mean nothing other than it sounds odd for Sheriff's Log...unknown...?

WTF wrote:

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The most I think the dogs show is that Maura was there and then she wasn’t. If that sounds funny it isn’t. It probably means she got into a vehicle and left the area, where she actually did that doesn’t need to be at the site where the dogs lost the scent, especially in this case.
Bill

As minimal as your statement sounds, if you seriously think about it......up until now we've been trying to figure out if it REALLY was Maura in the vehicle. The dogd tough, prove that she was there.

sorry for the typos--it should read-------the dogs though, prove that she was there.

looking4amoose wrote:

sorry for the typos--it should read-------the dogs though, prove that she was there.

But, really, it DOESN'T, necessarily, since it's not known for sure that Maura ever even wore the gloves. Obviously she likely touched them at some point, because they were in her car, but with something so new, who knows how many other people also touched them whose scent might be just as strong as Maura's on them?(ESPECIALLY if god forbid sometime during the first 48 hours someone else touched the gloves. Which, given the general circumstances surrounding all the other things left undone or done wrong in the first 48, is entirely possible.)

If the dog had gotten a decent scent object, a decent scent trail and followed it a fair distance, I might well believe that. At the risk of sounding like Clue, if the dog had scented Joseph the Monkey, trailed it for a mile, and then lost it, I'd believe almost without question that the dog was tracking Maura. A hundred yards really isn't far AT ALL.

I guess what I'm saying, in short, is there are too many variables in that particular equation for me to believe for certain that the dog was in fact tracking Maura.

looking4amoose wrote:

sorry for the typos--it should read-------the dogs though, prove that she was there.

Regarding the typos, though, it's all good. They didn't even register. I'm so beat that's pretty much the way I'm reading right now!:)

Night all. Thinking caps firmly in place. Tomorrow could be the day.

FireCat wrote:

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Obviously she likely touched them at some point, because they were in her car, but with something so new, who knows how many other people also touched them whose scent might be just as strong as Maura's on them?(ESPECIALLY if god forbid sometime during the first 48 hours someone else touched the gloves.

Corrected---so the dog tracked some unknown person, possibly Maura, who touched the gloves and then stopped in his/her tracks (or stood still and the scent drifted)

Is there some kind of list of "official" (meaning police, fire, volunteer fire, emt or civil server of some kind) people who arrived at the scene of the "abandoned" Saturn?

Quija wrote:

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At that age there are times one runs from a situation but has no definite intent yet. It's half-formed, open to changes pending mood swings. Maura may not have left Amherst with a plan to end her life, so she operated by habit and grabbed her usual stuff and left it open-ended. Come on, we've all slammed out of somewhere without a plan in mind or a plan in place. Being "down", maybe drinking... two skid-outs... a school-bus driver who looks at us as though we're lying through our teeth... a (possible) DUI pending and... well, people's moods can really take a dip. Look back at this good kid's judgment changing over the last week or so at school.

Uh - maybe my wording in the last sentence was sloppy. I really meant it that here's this good kid, not a kid with a troubled history or anything, an enviable history actually, and yet her judgment (taking her dad's out on Saturday night) and behavior really had been changing, with the crying etc. I didn't use the phrase "good kid" in a sarcastic way. How could I? Just look at her photo album and all you see is sweetness!! Sorry if my writing is poor and ambiguous!(Wrote this explanation because i didn't see anything else mean or inflammatory in that post.) Thanks.

I used to think if the dogs followed Maura's scent then that meant she was there, near the SBD and across from the CW. That was back in the earliest days of thinking SBD might be the one to look at since a witness said they did not see Maura at the car once he left.
Advocator, how about you do a chart with this and that witness, what they said in time with one another. I'd like to see that.
Sounds like.....Well there was a man and I saw the girl just minutes before,... and I stopped looking when I saw SBD with the.....and I didn't see 'her' once SBD left..........see what I mean?
Anyway, I was wondering about the dogs.
Did they have the dogs go back and forth from the car? Did the dogs circle at the place of the car and walk straight shot to SBD driveway//////////or did they keep going back and forth? More importantly how did they act at the car?

Euro,
As for Kathy Brunell, if you read up on old stories of her and the way she was found, most thought she did not do this to herself even though she was allegedly drunk. There was something coming up and she was to testify about something. Not sure how that went, might read up on it again today.