Where is MAURA MURRAY

Part 2 of 2

Question…are these reports supposed to be what the officer witnessed or a combination of what witnesses observed along with the officer? Maybe I’m nitpicking here, but “a later search of the vehicle” could only conclude that Maura belongings were in the vehicle, not necessarily that she was driving.

KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS IS AN “ACCIDENT REPORT” AND EACH “NODE” SHOULD BE FILLED OUT AS THE OFFICER SEES IT. ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FROM WITNESSES ARE TO BE FILED IN A SECOND REPORT, HENCE THE NOTATION AT THE END OF THE NARRATIVE “SEE HPD CASE #04-179-OFF”. You are not being “nitpicking” at all, Jerry Fletcher. Each of these “nodes” are supposed to help paint a picture when viewed collectively. If you find contradictions between the separate nodes such as Node #27-Occupant Condition-Unknown circled with Node #30-Occupant’s/Injured’s Position-Driver circled….THEN THERE’S A PROBLEM.

Again with the nitpicking…if the box of wine was behind the driver’s seat and assuming that the red liquid in the bottle found in the street and on the ceiling of the car were from that wine box, it would seem to indicate that the bottle was filled when the vehicle was stopped and had enough in it to splash up on the ceiling of the car and still have some in it when it was found on the road (accident report says it was empty).

NOW I”LL “NITPICK” JERRY, THE REPORT DOES NOT SAY THE BOTTLE WAS EMPTY, IN FACT IT SAYS “…I RECOVERED A COKE BOTTLE THAT CONTAINED A RED LIQUID WITH A STRONG ALCOHLIC ODER”

Of course that assumes that the bottle hadn’t been there before the accident (probably a reasonable assumption, but an assumption nonetheless).

I realize that there is no scale to the drawing, but it seems that where the car is indicated is much closer to SBD’s house than I would have thought from the pictures I’ve seen. In fact, if it was 500 feet from Bradley Hill Road, much closer and seemingly well beyond where one would have ended up after missing the curve.

THIS IS TRUE, THE VEHICLE CAME TO REST CLOSER TOWARD THE INTERSECTION OF ROUTE 112 AND BRADLEY HILL ROAD.

Don’t know what all that about nodes means, but hopefully Weeper will explain, because it seems like it might be important.

Another question, unless tire impressions were taken that night could it be determined to any degree of certainty that they were in fact from Maura’s car or even from that night?

I HOPE THIS HELPS ANSWER SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS JERRY, THERE ARE SEVERAL CONTRADICTIONS IN THIS DOCUMENT. THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO CONDUCT YOUR OWN REVIEW AND YOU SHOULD COME TO YOUR OWN CONCLUSSION AS TO THE ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION THEREIN.

Respectfully,

Weeper

To all, if I may,

Part 1 of 2

I would like to address the issues arising from you review of the Police Accident Report of record. I will be using all capital lettering to distinguish between Jerry Fletcher’s questions and my response. I am not yelling at anyone, fair enough?

Page 239, Post #4806

Part 2
Spent some time looking at the accident report…some observations:

*No indication that there were any tire marks in the street (only tire marks in the snow)

There are also not remarks about debris or yawing marks in the roadway or around any “trees” for that mater.

*No Traffic conrols…question for Weeper…wouldn’t a double yellow line qualify as a traffic control/no passing zone (probably neither here nor there, but a question)

Node # 4 does have a #6-visible road markings, this was not circled which would imply there were no yellow lines on the road.

ON “MOST” STATE HIGHWAYS IN NH, STATE ROADS DO HAVE “DOUBLE-YELLOW SOLID AND/OR BROKEN LINES” DOWN THE CENTER OF THE ROADWAY TO CONTROL LANE USE. ON THIS STRETCH OF ROUTE 112 THERE MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN SUCH LINES. IF THERE WERE SUCH MARKINGS ON THE ROADWAY, THEY MAY HAVE BEEN FADED TO THE POINT OF BEING USELESS. I CAN ONLY ASSUME THE ROADWAY HAD NO SUCH MARKINGS IN 2004.

*Additional Roadway Features…why a question mark…why not ‘none of the above’
Node #6 selection #4 should have been circled, you are correct here.

*Road Alignment…another question mark…this one does seem to me to be important

NODE # 7 SELECTION # 1-STRAIGHT AND LEVEL SHOULD HAVE BEEN CIRCLED. THE SATURN CAME TO REST WELL BEYOND THE CURVE IN THE ROAD. THE OFFICER’S 500 FOOT MEASUREMENT FROM THE INTERSECTION WITH BRADLEY HILL ROAD IS MORE ACCURATE THAN THE “BLUE-BOW” TREE.

*Road Surface Dry…seems this is also important since you would be more apt to have visible tire marks without snow or ice on the surface

IF THE ROADWAY WERE “OTHER THAN DRY”, HOW WOULD ONE EXPLAIN A “SPIN-OUT AND CRASH” WITHOUT IMPLYING DRIVER IMPAIRMENT, AS IS STATED IN NODE #20, SELECTION #2?

*Apparent Pre-Accident Vehicle Action…following the roadway?????? Doesn’t seem right to me

Node # 16 does have a #20-other vehicle action, which should have been circled if the officer believed the vehicle “skidded and then hit a tree”. There is no selection for “none of the above”

Bill/WTF, someone else did point out to sophie that she'd made that mistake (and I actually had to scroll up to make sure it was sophie who made it!)

Sometimes it's hard to keep everyone straight, especially since most of us don't know each other in person (although some of us DO know each other "online" or occasionally on the phone).

Confession: I actually have this problem even with people I DO know. I've called the dog by the husband's name and vice versa! "No, not you. The one with the tail, and the fluffy ears. What's your name?!" Actual sentences that have come out of my mouth!:-D (as punishment for this particular infraction I was referred to for weeks on end as "You! With the thumbs!")

Hopefully it was simply this type of error, Bill.

To all,

I have no idea why this posted twice?? Please ignore the second posting (and/or the first if you prefer..lol)

Weeper

Hi Weeper! Thanks for the deconstruction of Jerry's deconstruction. I'm beginning to make sense of an otherwise mystifying document. Thanks also go out to Jerry himself for being dogged enough to try to make sense of that gobbeltygook, and for getting farther than I would have.

So. Do we have access to THIS document?

SEE HPD CASE #04-179-OFF

Or is that part of what wasn't allowed released? If not, WHY not???

Weeper wrote:

To all,
I have no idea why this posted twice?? Please ignore the second posting (and/or the first if you prefer..lol)
Weeper

Yeah, Topix hates you Weeper. It does that all the time, doesn't it.:( Oh well. Better than it NOT showing up!

FireCat wrote:

Sometimes it's hard to keep everyone straight, especially since most of us don't know each other in person).Hopefully it was simply this type of error, Bill.

I assume it was. I tried using my most polite "voice". I am hoping that it will be corected.

Thanks,
Bill

hi Paris and all.we only know from the MMM site that Maura called the Salamones.we dont know why and neither do they .We do not know when Maura at some point in her past stayed in Bartlett N.H.I have asked a dozen times when did she stay in Bartlett N.H and how old was she when the Murray family had a vacation in N.H.whether camping or whatever.was she 12 or 19 i don't know.i think this is important.Paris could you post here the contents of the car and then we can compare notes.i have never seem a list . i am more interested in what is not on the list than amything. i did email Amelia Kuhardt about the photos she toook of Kathleen at the wellsriver motel with the contents of the car that were given to the family.whether they were given everything i dont know .why mrMurray was not allowed to see the saturn the day after he arrived in N.H IS REALLY CURIOUS.Did someone misplace it.or were family members and people close to Maura kept away for a reason.too odd.Mauras sister Julie is a west point graduate maybe she knew someone that could have unlocked the computer.Tim Carpenter is not a big fan of computers. the accident report is either pathetic or a lie take care .please please stop the bickering it takes too much from our goal.philip

Weeper wrote:

To all,
I have no idea why this posted twice?? Please ignore the second posting (and/or the first if you prefer..lol)
Weeper

everyone has this problem with long, consecutive posts...
word....
submit each post carefully...you'll prob. see it "take"...and then disappear!
fear not...
continue with the second post....and more often than not, they will reappear together.
don't panic and resubmit...or you'll get double posts.
quirky.

Hello All, Kathleen told me that she took Mauras car belongings home and put them in a closet expecting her to pick them up. She was very shocked to have a NHSP come to pick them up months later. I believe there was a materials list but I don't know about that.

Looking4amoose,

I didn't want to keep you hanging for weeks and possibly months. Believe it or not, there are even things I'm afraid to talk about and this was the sole reason why I posted Mike Barnacle's article on my blog. The general statement about biker gangs in NH was what I was referencing.

I found this quote from a Nevada newspaper as proof so people don't think I'm going off half cocked or trying to create a conspiracy.

"New Hampshire State Police Lt. Terrence Kinneen, a former president of the International Outlaw Motorcycle Gang Investigators Association, said instances of violence among motorcycle gangs are on the rise nationwide."

For the record, I was born in Pelham, NH and graduated from high school on the coast. If that doesn't make me a local/native of the granite state than I don't know what to tell you folks!

That article Mike Barnacle wrote pertained to me, my family, and friends as much as anyone else! I like Mike Barnacle so I'd be hard pressed to take it personally or hold a grudge though.

Sure wish everyone could feel the way I do but the issue of the locals feeling as though they are being bashed continues to fester and it's driven me right off this forum at this point.

Am I happy with how Maura's investigation has been hendled. Hell No. I've been angry about it for years and it obviously shows. For this I apologize.

Whether that one important piece of info I was referencing has anything to do with Maura? I don't know.

The Governor's Crime Commission est. 2006 re: Project Safe Neighborhoods & Anti Gang Initiative are both federally funded programs to combat this type of activity in NH though.

Whiston,

I specifically recall RobinsOrdway stating that the red truck was definately not a diesel.

As an aside - WTF brought up disk imaging - so I thought I'd pass on a few good things to know. Someone else mentioned a computer being password protected.

I've tried some different operating systems in recent years and have learned the following:

Even if the computer is password protected - the contents of a hard disk can be read and the hard disk and contents cloned; the hard disk is saved as a file image which can be mounted later. The only way to prevent access at this level is for the file system to be encrypted.

**Data recovery**

If a computer doesn't work when its turned on - and its because the operating system is not working - not a hardware failure - you can still get it back.

if you have a CD with knoppix on it -> http://www.knoppix.net/ you can restart the computer, run the computer from the operating system that is on the CD and (in these days)- you could simply copy all the files from the broken operating system's working hard drive to a USB drive with sufficient capacity.

It has a GUI - so you just copy and paste.

Knopix also has a utility on it called DD - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_ (Unix) which you can use to make disk images. Back when maura disappeared the thumb drives were too low capacity - so another hard drive would have had to be put in the computer to save the disk image. Basically the image file is the size of the hard drive you are cloning.-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_image

Hard disk images are used commonly in emulators such as Bochs -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bochs but in Linux - you could simply mount the disk image --> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/how-to-mount-is... but you'd have to have enough space on a hard drive or USB device to place it.

Weeper, always nice to hear your voice. I am running on only 3 cylinders, as is my
old car and ef#n#ng lap top. But, I am still here "keepin' on"....barely...

Whiston...In Fred's letters to Gov...(actually the 2nd letter) Bartlett, NH is mentioned...
whether or not that is of any use for/to you. The words "stayed for decades"...
AND, In the first Forum, one of the computer smarty pants, Silky, Peri, Paris or Mcsmom
submitted a letter found that Maura had written to Jigger Johnson Campground on 112,
about the chance of her working there for a Summer...extolling her experiences there, as
well as various local hiking trails.....(she was in her teens.)
The words "Route 112" could have sparked a light bulb..perhaps..maybe...?
As far as what was left in the car...we all have bits and pieces..teeth whitener, birth control
pills, shoes....and of course "the book"...Joseph,...blank accident report form (for previous accident)
I know some of the old timers would have more of the list of property left behind.
I vaguely recall photo of Kathleen in Motel, on her knees, closely holding Maura's shoes.
That photo really got to me,....
Elsewhere, I truly heard the words of your last Post....
Paris,also your words of Maura running,or even walking up that 112..pitch black..curvy winding...
coupled with the elevation climbing has always seemed impossible to me..and no houses.
I never have believed CW. Pants on fire.....

hi all Feb 05 mr Murray asks governor John Lynch to help retrieve Mauras computer from NHSP.June 05 NHSP take back Mauras belongings from her family.Did Mauras' family ever have the computer from Mauras dorm room or not.Shack we do not know why Muara called the Salamones it is just assumed that she needed a place to stay and put forward on the old MMM site.on the 20/ 20 show Maura is shown holding something Maybe a cd or dvd.what is that.also in the picture of Maura and Billy , i assume in the dorm room is that a copy of not without peril on the bookshelf behind them.the book binding looks similar. when was that taken. i read some where that Billy and Maura went to nyc over christmas break 2003.there is a picture of them in central park i think taken then.so was Billy home for christmas .i think Maura went back to school jan 28 04.Mr Murray drove with her from Bridgeport CT.feb 07 2004 she was in amherst with mr Murray having dinner and bending his car on feb o8 .the next day she vanishes.take care philip

Hello Philip, I don't have a list and don't recall offhand where/when it was written if not in that article, but will look as I find time. Probably google page 62, lol now that the MMM forum is down.
Thanks BF, good info.
I remember that cute email Maura sent as a teen, looked some for it, but I have to get going now.

Even better. I was mistaken. Those were older blogs. They have started a new blog that is invitation only but also does not appear to be viewable by anyone except the gang of 5. No worries about it being public. Certain members will be able to b***h slap the crap out of the New England states till their hearts content....... Ahhhhhhhh Nirvana.:) And it’s the best of both worlds. They get to do it and the public can’t see it.

B

WTF wrote:

Even better. I was mistaken. Those were older blogs. They have started a new blog that is invitation only but also does not appear to be viewable by anyone except the gang of 5. No worries about it being public. Certain members will be able to b***h slap the crap out of the New England states till their hearts content....... Ahhhhhhhh Nirvana.:) And it’s the best of both worlds. They get to do it and the public can’t see it.
B

inevitably, as blog conversations evolve...they easily lose perspective...and...voila! the subject becomes the individuals and their fierce ego defenses.

hmmmm...have seen that happen elsewhere.

fantasyland has found a solution to koffeeklatchinterruptus. a new address.

what ever happened to beagle bart? that was some crazy stuff!

Would it be possible for someone to link us to another vehicle accident report by C.Smith from the same Weathered Barn corner previous to 2/9/04?

Apparently the corner was the site of many previous accidents so it shouldn't be too hard to dig one up......?

Shack wrote:

I never have believed CW. Pants on fire.....

Never believed or think he is mistaken? I can understand thinking that someone might be mistaken. Not believing him means to me that you believe that he is lying and you are stating as much. What is the proof that he is lying? What would he have to gain? Do you think he has something to hide? Any evidence? Until you have proof of a lie or unless his information doesn’t fit in with what is known how is it you can call him a liar? This is part of what I could never understand. Is it you just need to have your theory because it feels right? Him not knowing that what he saw might be relevant but he still reported later? Is it you just need to see your own comments? Just got to get that dig in? Is that actually helpful to the process? I try to use all the information given and make it fit some thing cohesive knowing that there are things that are not going to line up 100% perfectly. Some seem to have started with a theory and anything that doesn’t fit the theory gets disregarded. And this is accomplished by ignoring some information, refusing to listen to other information and yelling liar, liar about other information.

Shack wrote:

also your words of Maura running,or even walking up that 112..pitch black..curvy winding...
coupled with the elevation climbing has always seemed impossible to me..and no houses.

As far as the running part. I think you believe it impossible and that may be what drives your disbelief of CW. It was not pitch black and the task is not super human. I actually would never consider myself a runner but was mediocre at it when I was younger and have spent many years in the woods at night. I have repeatedly run seven miles in a little less that an hour with a load on a road like that. I have also done it at night and have done so many times with no light. It is far from an impossible task. God it sucks to get old. In particular it would not have difficult for someone who may have had some night training in the military, where lights are never used during night patrols and rarely during exercises. And the no houses is a benefit if you are trying to not have contact with others.

And JMO I agree. Keeping things on task is not easy and the egos can be a problem.

Bill

hi WTF,and all i agree getting old does suck.running on a dark country lane i have no doubt would be no problem for anyone that is even a little athletic.as for CW he left work around 7.pm if i remember .if he went directly home he could have been on 112 or 116 around the time someone was seen on foot.i have a hard time with CW leaving Franconia at 7 pm..and not seeing anything of the saturn. EMS. FD or sgtSmith sitting waiting for the tow truck i am assuming with his blue lights on.according to a witness sgt Smiths vehicle was at the saturn before he reports being there and well before the call came in from the Westmans.is this just poor record keeing i dont know.take care philip