Where is MAURA MURRAY

didn't mean to be redundant, didn't refresh the page and didn't see the above post by White Wash before I posted

Weeper wrote:

I have been following this site as I have with the MMM Forum. Some posters here know who I am and I've met some of you over the years. I believe most of you are here because you want to help and contribute to the investigation of Maura's dissapperance. As I've stated on Maura's Forum in the past, I will assist in answering questions you may have so long as those questions/answers do not hinder this investigation. I am, by profession, a nationaly certified criminal defense investigatior, not being employed, paid, induced or otherwise under the influance of any member of the Murray family. I am one of several private investigators (pro-bono)from MA,NH,ME,VT and CT who are taking on this case for one purpose only..to uncover the TRUTH of what happened to Maura Murray on Feb. 9, 2004. I am not here to entertain you or partake in frivolous conversation.

Elsewhere posted this:

"Weeper was also one of the number of experts who stated the person(s) responsible for Maura's disappearance has done it before and will do it again."

This statement I do agree with, though I will not give specific reasons for my belief that Maura was the victim of "foul play".

My statement is in quotes, the rest are Weeper's words.

Still, it's just opinion.

For crying out loud, it's Weeper's opinion along with it being the opinions of about 4 other EXPERT CRIMINAL PROFILERS!

So who is Weeper, God?

It's still just opinion.

They may be right, they may be wrong.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

always regard a missing person as a homicide investigation until they are found alive and well.

This is an absurd statement. There were 830,325 missing persons reports filed in 2004. Considering the breadth and depth that a homicide investigation entails it would be impossible to do that from any standpoint. It could not be done with respect to manpower or with respect to money. No department could expect or be able to do this. As a result they look at the information at the scene of the disappearance and take other history into account to make a determination. It is perfectly legitimate for an investigating agency to come to the conclusion that the person ran away based on evidence it collects. Can the conclusion be incorrect? Yes but the alternative is to try to do what you suggest which is clearly impossible. The reasons for that are pretty simple. Resources. Considering how many adult missing persons reports are false in the sense, i.e. they wanted to be missing or most came back within 48 hours etc. It would not be possible in any form to do what you state.

When you say you always regard a missing person as a homicide investigation, you do that in what capacity? What LE capacity do you work in because I would love to know the town that pays for that kind of service? We are talking gold toilets in the bathroom type of service.

And thank you for trying to answer my question. I can’t accept that the information cannot be told by the people involved but I recognize and appreciate the fact that you answered as fully as you could. I don’t know if you recognize that it is very hard to take things like that on faith. There is usually some modality that allows someone to make statements like that. It is very hard to inspect the protocol for most psychological findings as its scientific data is more “flexible” shall we say then many of the hard sciences but they should have transparency so that the ways they came to their conclusions can be validated. This is standard in any scientific method. Again, thanks for your effort.

One other thing I noticed and I’m not picking on you Elsewhere, but you refer to other criminal profilers. The only criminal profiler I see is Dr Godwin. The other people, weeper, etc are investigators not profilers. You are not calling the investigators profilers, correct? A profiler is a specific term for someone usually someone with a background in psychology or psychiatry and usually a PhD at that; at least that is what I was always lead to believe. An investigator could be a profiler with the correct education and training but it isn’t automatic.

Bill

Let me apologize in advance. I shouldn't have used the term absurd. Sorry, I didn’t mean to phrase it that way. That’s what happens when I don’t read what I write well enough before I ship it. Mea Culpa

Bill

O.K. Bill, taking a deep breath and exhaling slowly..........

There are classifications re: endangered runaways, family abductions, non family abductions a.k.a. missing children and missing adults.

Missing Children & Missing Adults, I will continue deem potential homicide investigations until they are found safe and alive.

As of 2005 the state of NH has a Missing Adults Law and every aspect of LE is required to follow one set protocol.

Not trying to pick a fight but to read that HPD followed protocol in that JO editorial didn't quite make sense to me considering there wasn't a law or protocol on the books to start with.

Ginsburg & Philpin are also nationally recongnized expert criminal profilers. There was also a former FBI profiler who offered his opinion but did not wish to provide his name.

Funny you should mention gold tiolets, to date the state of Nevada is the only state in the US that deems all of its missing persons cases as homicide investigations.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

Not trying to pick a fight but to read that HPD followed protocol in that JO editorial didn't quite make sense to me considering there wasn't a law or protocol on the books to start with.

Protocols can of course be national as well as state or local or have simply become a de-facto standard in how to behave because it is a universally accepted technique. They have had a protocol that they follow such as it being reported that all car accidents being dispatched by police automatically get fire dispatched as well. The due diligence of CS checking near the car to look if someone was injured in that area and searching the area roadways to see if someone went into the woods or was in the street is similar to what many departments do across the country. It has to be that way. If it wasn’t then claims that they didn’t follow procedures that are either nationally known or procedures that are established by the LEO community (pick whatever certifying national agency you want) opens them up to lawsuits that they didn’t do what is considered a national standard in the way they behave. I can tell you that the way CS behaved is exactly the way we would have behaved in that situation. That is not a state standard for us. It is protocol used across and country and is standard practice. There is of course nothing preventing you from doing less, except professionalism and the worry about lawsuits by families claiming due diligence wasn’t accomplished compared to the way that thousands of other agencies would have handled the same situation. And there is nothing preventing you from doing as much as the taxpayers will bear. If the taxpayers demand that squadrons of helicopters with FLIR systems are launched every time someone walks away from an accident more power to them. It would be a hard sell in any area other than Las Vegas though I think.

Bill

BELOW FROM:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTo...

The extreme danger of using escharotics products is illustrated by the experience of Ruth Conrad, an Idaho woman who consulted one of the state's many unlicensed naturopaths in 1984. While seeking treatment for a sore shoulder, she also complained of a bump on her nose. The naturopath stated that it was cancer and gave her a black herbal salve to apply directly. Within a few days, her face became very painful and she developed red streaks that ran down her cheeks. Her anxious phone call to the naturopath brought the explanation that the presence of the lines was a good sign because they "resemble a crab, and cancer is a crab." He also advised her to apply more of the black salve. Within a week, a large part of her face, including her nose, sloughed off. It took 3 years and 17 plastic surgery operations to reconstruct her face. During a deposition, the naturopath stated that he had obtained the salve from a woman in Mexico and that he didn't know who had manufactured it. The picture shows the extent of the injured area.

PHOTO: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTo...

Did Maura Murray go to Sojourns Community Health Clinic? Located apx 100 miles south of Haverhill.

Losing Lucille was an emotional disaster from which I am slowly recovering. It's still hardly believable because we didn't get to fight her disease together. I and her family still discuss how a bright, energetic, educated person made such a lapse in judgment. Up to a month before her death, Lucille still said she was going to get better. Most ironically, she was a registered nurse with a master's degree in counseling, working locally as a rehab nurse for many years.

The quacks and their nostrums encouraged Lucille to hide from the reality of her disease, which could well have been cured in its early stages by standard treatment.

ABOVE FROM:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTo...

In 1992, Alzado passed away after a bout with brain cancer that Alzado blamed solely on his abuse of steroids and other performance enhancing drugs.

Undersized coming out of High School, the fiery defensive lineman needed any help he could get in furthering his football career. He was competitive and gave his all, but he was no star. He needed a competitive edge & after being told by the Head Coach at Kilgore Junior College in Texas that he wasn't good enough to play college ball, Alzado headed to
Yankton College in South Dakota. It was here that he began his abuse of steroids.

After years of denying his steroid use, Lyle finally came clean in Sports Illustrated.

ABOVE FROM: http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/Broncs4LifeR...

Women & Steroids: The Truth about Side Effects

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
Who pushes the crimes aside? Me? The other locals? Who????? Have you ever been here Half Moon? Do you know any of the people? It's obvious that a few are here for the sole purpose of being bashers and drama queens. I wish they would start their own bash Woodsville/Haverhill area forum so others here could try to find out what happened to Maura Murray.
Glad you're with Shack Half Moon. I'm sure she'll appreciate a fellow basher has come back.
What a farce this forum is becoming.

YES, YES, AND YES..........Everyone is still allowed to have an opinion AND to express that opinion, last time I checked!!

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
That’s a very good question but the answer is pretty obvious. I certainly know that I would never let my mother live in an area as unsafe as that. Never, NEVER. I would come armed if I needed, to get her out.
I call bullshit on Shack and Half moon. If you need to look up what that means than do so.
B.

I call Bullshit???? Is that like calling the front seat, or the tv channel???

I think some of the friction on this thread is coming from those who side with or have a financial interest in the quack drug industry and from those using a variety of other (often homormonal) drugs without sound medical reason. I think some of it originates in the Amherst- Northampton, Massachusetts area.

Dear Chief Scherpa:

I would speculate that Maura Murray, who seems to have disappeared from Amherst on February 9, 2004, may have been involved, directly or indirectly, with people who were using and/or distributing a variety of legal and illegal drugs commonly used by athletes (to enhance athletic performance), by the very ill (frequently, cancer patients), and by people who simply want to be in top physical condition (body builders). In short, drugs like anabolic steroids, prohormones, and a host of other legal and illegal medications. Junk. Dangerous junk.

I have no hidden agenda and I am not trying to maliciously bad-mouth anyone, but I believe that two or more relatively prominent businessmen in Amherst are involved in this trade. Much of it is likely legal, but there may have been some kind of related illegal activity that accompanied it.

There could be several more or less related reasons, among others, that Miss Murray disappeared.

1. Her disappearance may have ultimately resulted from the excessive or ill-advised use of legal "drugs" such as nutritional supplements and the like. That is, she may have died, not illegally, but her death, if it occurred, may have been covered up in order to prevent bad publicity for the manufacturer of whatever supplement(s), etc. she may have been using.

2. She may have been informed of a likely Petrit Vasi hit-and-run at Triangle and Mattoon Streets, shortly after Mr. Vasi was struck, by the person responsible for hitting Mr. Vasi. She may have then been viewed as a liability by either the person who might have stuck Mr. Vasi, or by someone with an interest (possibly a financial interest) in avoiding the disclosure of the source of Mr. Vasi’s injuries.

3. She may have been the victim of "roid rage."

I apologize if these specualtive observations are of no assistance.

BELOW EXCERPTS FROM:

http://www2.ftc.gov/os/decisions/docs/vol113/...

IN THE MATTER OF
FERTILITY INSTITUTE OF WESTERN
MASSACHUSETTS, ET AL.
CONSENT ORDER, ETC., IN REGARD TO ALLGED VIOLATION OF
SEC. 5 OF THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION ACT
Docket 3318. Complaint, Dec. 1990-Decision, Dec. 1990
This consent order prohibits, among other things , a Springfield , Ma., fertilty institute
and its proprietor from misrepresenting: the number or percentage of patients
that achieve success in overcoming infertility, including the number or percentage
of patients that give birth or achieve pregnancy; the success rate of any infertility
procedure , without competent and reliable scientific evidence to substantiate the
claims; or the cost or expense of any infertility test or procedure. The order also
prohibits respondents from misrepresenting their qualifications or ability to
provide infertility treatments, and any beneficia! or therapeutic aspects of any
test or procedure relating to the treatment of infertility.

PAR. 8. In truth and in fact, as of 1988 , the Fertility Institute of
Western Massachusetts' success rate for the GIFT procedure was not
35%, when success is defined as the ratio of the number of patients
taking home babies compared to the number of patients entering the
program. Therefore, respondents' representation , as set forth in
paragraph seven (1) was, and is , false and misleading.