Where is MAURA MURRAY

Rude and blunt....way to go "Saturnus". Unimpressive.

Saturnus wrote:

As insane as I think aLdEn pretends to be, he makes an occasional valid point as displayed in post #7790:

citigirl wrote:

Lady Gray I'm not sure how quija came up with Maura declined many offers of help. There was I believe her supervisor that offered her help and SBD. 2 is only a few and not many.

Hi, I was thinking that the third was the small group of friends Saturday night trying to help Maura stay safe by encouraging her not to drive to Fred's motel. The fourth was leaving (if she did) without making use of the help Fred gave her in picking out a new car. I'm not 100% sure but I thought that an additional driver-by besides SBD offered help at the snowbank (a student's parent?). And to stretch things, the well-lit-peopled homes near the snowbank were "an open invitation of help" to go in and seek shelter. Stretching things even more, another open offer of help would be her friends wanting to hear Maura tell them of her plans so someone would know where she was going and why --- so that's a passive resistance of help. There are lots of these, but I'm sure I've given you enough material to make fun of and joke about semantics!

Quija wrote:

<quoted text>
Hi, I was thinking that the third was the small group of friends Saturday night trying to help Maura stay safe by encouraging her not to drive to Fred's motel. The fourth was leaving (if she did) without making use of the help Fred gave her in picking out a new car. I'm not 100% sure but I thought that an additional driver-by besides SBD offered help at the snowbank (a student's parent?). And to stretch things, the well-lit-peopled homes near the snowbank were "an open invitation of help" to go in and seek shelter. Stretching things even more, another open offer of help would be her friends wanting to hear Maura tell them of her plans so someone would know where she was going and why --- so that's a passive resistance of help. There are lots of these, but I'm sure I've given you enough material to make fun of and joke about semantics!

Quija I'am not making fun or making a joke of your thoughts. I only knew of 2 people that tried to help Maura. After reading your reply I understand where your coming from with your thoughts.

countrybeagle wrote:

Obviously the red liquid in the container was wine. Why do we keep trying to find excuses for the alcohol,instead focusing on why Maura left Amherst?

Are you talking about the soda bottle found outside of the car? The official police report says that it contained a red liquid with "a strong alcohol smell" - not that it was wine. We have never seen any statement that confirms that the liquid WAS wine - and I personally don't think of wine having a "Strong alcohol smell" - the red Nyquil, yes. Brain Rooney may have been in the area, and used chemicals to facilitate his crimes.

I have NEVER said "Maura wasn't drinking, she didn't drink, she was a good girl!!!" - I find it absurd that people are accusing some of us of "protecting" Maura by insisting that she never touched a drop. That's bullshit. I don't give a rat's ass if she drank. She's GONE, and that's all I care about. AND...there is no "evidence that she was drunk" even as many insist that there's "no evidence of foul play."

Sophie, I agree..as I am sure many here do...

Shack Wrote: "I am not saying that Maura was not....(that word)"

I hope that it didn't happen too...

Shack Wrote: "BF..I live in MA...trust me... there isn't..couldn't be any "racing" up route 5 VT or route 10 NH.....to make the timing...."

I just want to clarify - is it, in your opinion, too dangerous, physically impossible, or ...

Shack Wrote: "in Amherst...I am saying her car had an approximate timing of 3 1/2 hours-4 hours to arrive Rte 112 Woodsville,NH."

Do you mean that it would be no slower then taking Interstate 91, or something else?

Thank You

sophie bean wrote:

"Br[i]an Rooney may have been in the area, and used chemicals to facilitate his crimes."

The part about the chemicals - reminds me of the white towel in exhaust.

I hope to God that Maura was not harmed.

So, if Rooney ends up confessing about Maura - I will be more upset that her life was lost then I will be happy to know that the justice system caught a criminal.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Rooney

"Michelle Gardner-Quinn

On October 7, 2006 at 2:34 A.M., a jewelry store camera had caught Rooney walking on a sidewalk with the victim. It has been said that Gardner-Quinn had borrowed Rooney's cell phone to try to reunite with friends that she had been out with. According to Vermont police, it is also said that Rooney was the last person to see Gardner-Quinn alive."

It seems Rooney was a kind of person that convinced his future victims that he could be trusted. This is the kind of slick person I was talking about in the "secret boyfriend" scenario - but I'm also starting to think that the secret could have been only in the perp's mind - but not in Maura's - a friend but nothing more.

I just read the page I linked to again.

"Brian L. Rooney (c. 1970) is a construction worker who was convicted of the abduction and murder of 21-year-old college student Michelle Gardner-Quinn, a senior from the University of Vermont, located in Burlington, Vermont."

I've always suspected sabotage taking place at the point that the emails were made to professors, but figured since the timeline as I knew it had witnesses for Maura later on, on Sunday I figured there were her own actions.

Rooney could have had a job in the Amhurst area around the time Maura disappeared. If they also have the date of the ATM visit and beer can party clean up wrong - these things actually happened on Saturday and not Sunday - I think Rooney could have struck after her dad finished talking to Maura on the phone.

I also think Rooney could have harmed Jennifer Kesse. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Kesse

At the time Jennifer Kesse disappeared - there were construction workers working on the complex she lived in - and I suspect these workers had access to master keys. The workers were living temporarily at the apartment area. Jennifer Kesse's car was found a few blocks away - abandoned. A security camera caught an unidentified man partially - in a construction worker outfit walking away from her car.

If this group of construction workers were shipped all over the country - this possibility makes sense in my mind -

The big question is - where was the next job location for the crew Rooney worked with - and - was it in the path the Saturn went?

As to Mr. Atwood - maybe he saw the Saturn, but in fact never heard the driver's voice - who I think was Rooney. He being tricked does not make him a liar.

countrybeagle wrote:

You people spend more time trying to make excuses than you do getting down to the facts.

nobody is making excuses. I don't know whether or not Maura was drinking on Feb. 9th. I only stated my thoughts about Saturday night and the alcohol as a possibility not as fact. Which to me sounds reasonable. Just because a poster does not agree with another poster doesn't mean they are avoiding or making excuses. There opinions just happen differ from one another thats all it is.

I've copied a portion of a Websleuths post on the woman Rooney murdered - and it mentions a red truck:

"OH, on Fox just now they said they did find her body where they were digging under the concrete. Hmm two different reports!

This morning they put out the call for info on that red car, and it could be someone from the construction crew called into report the construction site at that point. Maybe someone saw the red car there on Monday! I don't know."

From: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/0...

"VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let`s go to Jennifer`s boyfriend, Rob Allen. We had heard some reports, and maybe you can confirm them or deny them, that she had been a little nervous living in that condo complex. She said there were construction workers or there was something that was kind of freaking her out a little. Can you tell us about that?"

I think someone needs to check in the concrete in whatever buildings were being built at the time.

I am convinced.

This will be my last today. Note also that in the Kesse case in Florida - the yet to be identified suspected killer drove the victim's car to a different location at least, it can be seen here: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_o...

From: https://www.amherst.edu/aboutamherst/news/new...

"AMHERST, Mass.-The newest dormitories at Amherst, under construction in the southeast corner of campus, will be named King Hall and Wieland Hall. King Hall, the more southerly of the two, will honor Stanley King '03, who served as president of Amherst College from 1932 to 1946. An anonymous donor provided the funding. The north dorm will be named Wieland Hall, in recognition of a gift from John F. Wieland '58, a real estate developer and philanthropist from Atlanta, Ga. The new dorms are scheduled for occupancy in Fall 2004."

BF.yes ...to your last Post #7810

I wrote you a Post and it disappeared...

BF..Rooney Red truck...I think it was an Suv...

BF..I'll try to explain another way...if I wanted to get to Woodsville, N H from Amherst, MA, I would go highway 91.65-70mph (3 + hours)
IF I wanted to meander, look at the scenery, weaving and wending through the VT towns, I would go Rte 5. varying mph 30-50..(6 - 7 hours)

Re: Construction...in the previous Forums..it was discussed soo many times about local construction and reconstruction areas up there. Can't see
Rooney driving down to MA for work...he'd be driving by and through all the NH construction areas.(In 2002, he had a residence a bit North of Monroe, NH)

Re: Rag in tailpipe..if it was used for Maura, the Police would have...ahem, of course
tested it....And, I can't see "him" whoever him is...putting it over Maura's face..
then leaning over to stuff it.

Citigirl...you don't know what you are talking
about....pfffft! ;-}

Misc. thoughts...a kin in Woodsville, once asked me, in the Spring of '05,if they had looked "up Benton way"..."construction "...
It would take money to have concrete areas to be examined by -------ography..., whatever it is called....(read about it in a book Helena
suggested) and it didn't register in my mind) Where is Firecat when I need
her....?(Get your fluffy tail back here)

Already forgot my other thoughts...but, with murder of an elderly man,a murder of a youth, a murder of a middle aged guy ('they know who,
but can't prove it") Franconia "incident"..various other "situations" that have seemed to just meld into nothingness...then add the most recent
"rumble" and murder/burning/burying of CG.,...What the fuh...!!!!

Many, many times I have thought that if only the Haverhill, NH area populous would admit that there is a criminal problem in their
townships, that there wouldn't be so much animosity expressed here.
Is it because they don't really believe it...or is it because they don't want it to be known to anyone outside NH? Is it just because of
embarrassment/shame...?

To my haters...not to worry...I will NEVER live up there. I prefer a Town of 10K with NO...NONE homicides within my last 40 years.

Peanuts...? Anyone,...?

Part 1

Thank you shack -

I don't want to go nuts on the number of posts I make - but after thinking this through this makes too much sense to just blow off.

A few of the preconceived notions held - prevent clarity - that is as harsh as I will get - I really think this should be taken siriously:

1. The assumption that Maura was driving - not a murderer trying to escape
2. The purification of the Saturn driver's purpose - just a leisurely drive - not a murderer in a vehicle
3. Disregarding out of character behavior - only possible with #2 being taken on faith -(The family doesn't think she would up and go - well maybe she didn't and the purification of the drive, if actually done by a murderer and car thief, only delays the solution.)

The confusion and inconsistent messages received - and resulting arguments here - ARE SYMPTOMATIC of the actions of a criminal being attributed to the victim - as intended by the criminal.

In general I do think its a good idea to look in buildings under construction where cement was poured at the time Maura disappeared - both at Umass and in NH. I suspect things went wrong at Umass.

Here is why I am very convinced:

First - if a serial killer were going to have a general plan as to how to get away with his crimes - it would definitely include the following elements that - are almost blatantly appent in the Kesse Case - not so clear in the Gardner-Quinn Case, but when put together blatantly clear.

Second - he's going to pick his victims where he does not live. Where no one knows who he is, what his habits are. No one will be able to ask him questions because he will be gone - and if the abduction is quiet and he has a way to hide a body - we will have an unsolved mystery.

So if the guy was planning to murder young women - and had the ability to work away from where he lives - I'd think he would do that. The only requirement is that the victim own a car, so it can be dumped and used to misdirect.

Third - the guy doesn't have to own a car to be well traveled. A sick person would be willing to venture out of the area, so that he'd have a better chance of not being caught. He could ask for his employer to pay for his transport to the site he would work at. If he has a couple of hundred bucks he could take the bus for a job that started in a week.

Fourth - the guy doesn't have to live close by to get a job - he can use the Internet, even customize his search for college campuses - new developments in which housing is sold concurrently.

Fifth - Construction sites will use concrete at some point. If he poured concrete over a body in the middle of the night - someone might find it odd that some was poured - but not do anything about it. Especially if it could be done in another local site he didn't work at. After he commits the crime, he would call in to abruptly quit his job while driving the victim's car to a dumping point close to a bus to take him home. Take the back roads - not the interstate so he won't be caught in a stolen vehicle.

Sixth - a construction worker could very well have access to master keys. Quietly unlock a door in the middle of the night.

Seventh - a person that uses Chemicals could subdue the victim without any noise. Even more so if they have a key to the apartment (applies to Kesse)

Eighth - A person like this would look for places in which he might have access to lived in facilities - Umass, with new dorms being built - doors and locks may have been purchased - could be one of them.(Kesse case - part of the apartments or condos were complete - a part were not.)

Nineth - In the Kesse case her car was driven to another location - this shifts the focus from the crime to the location the car was found.

Tenth - a guy like that will eventually screw up and give in to his impulses - not wait for a job in timbucktoo - just kill locally but without the factors used to his advantage previously. This is probably what happened to Michelle Gardner-Quinn - he didn't have cement - he wasn't out of town - Michelle Gardner-Quinn was a result of overconfidence and carelessness.

Eleventh - It is much more likely that a criminal would look for a victim then stumble upon one. You can count on students being at Umass. You can't count on one running down the road at 7:30 at night in rural New Hamshire.(You also can't count on being murdered in rural New Hampshire - its simple stereotyping to make a blanket statement that the entire civilian population, plus police force belong in prison.)[Its bad public relations to boot]

Twelfth - Weeper thought a man could have been driving the car

Thirteenth - Rooney was caught on camera strolling and talking to the girl he ended up murdering - he got her confidence - whose to say he couldn't be convincing and talk Maura into getting money out of the ATM machine for him.

Fourteenth - The book in her room about White Mountains could have led him to ask and her to talk about how much she loved it there - gave him a convenient spot to dump car. Although he was not as cautious in this situation compared to Kesse.

Fifteenth - Amhurst had construction going on at the time.

sophie bean wrote:

Brain Rooney may have been in the area, and used chemicals to facilitate his crimes.
I have NEVER said "Maura wasn't drinking, she didn't drink, she was a good girl!!!" - I find it absurd that people are accusing some of us of "protecting" Maura by insisting that she never touched a drop. That's bullshit. I don't give a rat's ass if she drank. She's GONE, and that's all I care about. AND...there is no "evidence that she was drunk" even as many insist that there's "no evidence of foul play."

Sophie - this post did get me going - but it was the most couple of words almost hidden in your post that...

...was a real help...

"Brain Rooney may have been in the area, and used chemicals to facilitate his crimes."

And for that sentence - I really do want to thank you. I am glad I didn't miss it amongst the other stuff.