Where is MAURA MURRAY

oops! Correction --- it was mcsmom who had the information about paint chips on the front bumper. You're one of the Documentation Gods!

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
Part 1
I generally agree, but like Weeper, I believe it's important not to lose focus. I think the logical subject matter to begin investigating in Amherst is the disturbing phone call Maura received. First, I'd like to know if she took a break from her job at the dorm anytime between 11:45 pm Thursday and 12:15 am Friday. If we cannot get a firm yes or no answer, I'd like to know if it would have been unusual for her or anyone else working the same job to take a break and have someone cover for them while they are gone. Second, I'd like to know where she was working relative to the intersection of Triangle and Matoon where the fortunate Mr. Vasi was discovered unconscious at 12:20 am. I say fortunate because he has fully recovered (I believe) from being struck by a car and suffering severe head injuries that left him in a coma for a month. I don't believe any witnesses ever contacted police and, since Mr. Vasi could not recall anything about the incident, no charges were filed. Nevertheless, if Maura hit Mr. Vasi, she would not have known that he would recover and she never would be charged. Therefore, she likely would have been as upset as her supervisor described her to be after the phone call.

Mason, I've permanently lost focus! But, you may want to talk to Karen Ayotte, Maura's security supervisor. I've been led to believe over the ears that it can't be ruled out that coffee runs might have been made. All-night coffee shops are within approx. 10 minutes of Maura's job, in several directions, and IIRC a loop to either of two of them passes by where Petrit Vasi was hit. Posters who live in the area or have travelled to Amherst have timed a "coffee run" in winter conditions and I think the time from dorm to car to shop and back seemed to run from 22-30 minutes in those tests? Note: From what I've seen and heard I don't believe Petrit made a full recovery. It's a lifelong process, I think.

What makes you 100% that LE has not told Mr. Murray the same?
Mr.Murray wasn't happy with the case as a missing person is not happy with being an investigation.
Short of Maura being found and rightly so will
be all that makes Mr. Murray happy.

What I said was in the interview I noticed
a photograph and asked if photographs where taken that night which was comfirmed by HPD no where did I state inspected photographs that Mr. Murray
has not had access to.

Another Spin on Words.

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
Fred Murray filed a suit in a court of law to be able to see the documents/photo's involving his daughter's disappearance. He was denied due to it being an ongoing criminal investigation. When I read things like I do below, I think to myself "unbelievable!"
"Whiston LE has photographs of tire tracks into the trees so going to have to disagree on the
information that the Saturn did not hit those
trees since I saw the photograph."
What made this person so special that they were able to view the photograph? They live in Grafton County? Why are they privy to something that the family is denied?

Mason wrote:

Part 2
BTW, the accident may have been unavoidable because Mr. Vasi admitted that he'd been drinking and he might have stepped in front of the vehicle that hit him........

Mason, well done.

I've wondered too if the upsetting phone call was along the lines of "we saw what happened". I don't know where to go with that.

I also felt, as her sister Kathleen said early on, that maybe Maura was acting to get out of work not just for that hour early, but for the next day(s)--- if, indeed, she was scheduled to work on following days --- because Fred was coming in over the weekend for car-hunting. If Maura was exhausted, I could understand putting on an act to get out at 1AM and get a little more sleep. Plus, as I said, to maybe not be expected to work the following night????

Just for the record Lavoie's used a flat bed to
tow the car not a wrecker!
Just my personal experience with that level of
cars is the bummer would have ripped off.
In the other photos you can see the cracks in the
bottom bumper that would to me indict some snow
bank action.
Since Fred did not see the car that weekend
we really do not know for fact there was no damage to the car prior to the trip.

Quija wrote:

Mason, Firecat, White Wash --- you've brought some new (and needed) life and focus here in these recent posts. Firecat, your reminding me of paint chips on front bumper, questionably from towing... that was chilling.
Mason -- IIRC the plates on the red pickup truck were identified as Mass. plates by RO. But everyone has noted that they look similar to temp. NH plates. I don't believe RO budged in her description, though, IIRC>
The towel in the tailpipe is explained if Maura left her keys in the car while, for ex., going in to get gas. We need to know her habits and if she grabbed the keys automatically or not.... we have heard that she has previously locked herself out of the car, but that doesn't have to be related to habitual behavior at a gas station or convenience store.
The Saturn stalling within a mile or has been stated by 3 other people who are familiar with auto mechanics or consulted with same, so I can go with that. One poster here wondered (off-line) if an exhaust pipe with a leak or hole would make much difference in the distance the vehicle could go.
The perp/good samaratin scenario is a good one.
Butch Atwood was quoted differently in many articles:
--She appeared intoxicated.
--She had a hard time getting out of the car and standing up (uh, yeah, try it when you have to push a door into a snowbank) after one or two accidents.
--It could've been her but her hair was down.
Then, as White Wash said, his comments moved toward her not appearing intoxicated. It could've been from political pressure, and/or his discomfort with having any responsibility in leaving an impaired girl alone. I still think he wanted to look good in his actions.
I got dismissed on the old forum years ago when I wondered if UMass Security could run a computer check for students with red pickups that matched the description --- because UMass is like a good-sized town. But I liked Mason's idea about checking mechanics...

I beleive the first press conference held by
Mr. Murray was on Feb 11, 04 in the Littleton area.
I will try to find those articles on line to post them.
I think if you start at the beginning work your way forward you can see things shifting and changing in stories ect.

Quija wrote:

<quoted text>
Mason, I've permanently lost focus! But, you may want to talk to Karen Ayotte, Maura's security supervisor. I've been led to believe over the ears that it can't be ruled out that coffee runs might have been made. All-night coffee shops are within approx. 10 minutes of Maura's job, in several directions, and IIRC a loop to either of two of them passes by where Petrit Vasi was hit. Posters who live in the area or have travelled to Amherst have timed a "coffee run" in winter conditions and I think the time from dorm to car to shop and back seemed to run from 22-30 minutes in those tests? Note: From what I've seen and heard I don't believe Petrit made a full recovery. It's a lifelong process, I think.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>...
There is no simple answer to your question because anyone alive who knows the answer ain't saying...
Circumstantial evidence....
She's been missing for almost 5 years.
She hasn't contacted or attempted to contact anyone in her family.
She disappeared under mysterious circumstances.
She isn't the sort of person to intentionally disappear and stay disappeared.
etc.
As opposed to wishful thinking, can you articulate a reason supported by the evidence, or lack of evidence that she is still alive.
If I told you that she's alive and she's going to give a press conference tomorrow at noon, would you believe me?
W

Yes, it does look like LE and the PIs believe Maura was murdered.
But, you know what? I wouldn't be surprised if she appeared and agreed to give a press conference tomorrow!
Yes, there's a lot of wishful thinking. To analyze the circumstantial evidence is where we need to tread lightly and try to be delicate. I'll toss out some hypothetical reasons why a person might disappear for five years... I don't think there's any way to be delicate enough, sorry...
---- a very bright, high-achieving student may put too much pressure on herself, and be overwhelmed beyond being able to deal with the high goals
---- years of high expectations from family and friends put pressure on a student, and if she has failed in some way(s), she might be hard on herself...
---- too much control or high expectations from authority figures might engender some anger and although the student is suffering emotionally from the hurt she's caused her loved ones, she might compartmentalize it and get on with a new life where she is in control
---- a female student of 21 might be at the age where certain chemical problems in the brain become too severe to compensate for, i.e., major mental health disorder overwhelms the person. Many girls in their late teens can cover a developing psychotic illness for several years. Personally, I don't think applies to Maura.
---- a student is approached by friends or family who are concerned about a behavioral problem, and she just does not want to keep being bugged about getting help with whatever the problem is, and leaves with a powerful mixture of emotions.
---- a student is from a good family where there was, however, a divorce, and there is competition among some sibs, and less interaction with other sibs. Not different from most of our semi-functional families. Perhaps the student felt responsible (another poster's idea) for being the prime/closest person in her dad's life and felt that to be a big responsibility, particularly if she were to soon leave the area and marry, etc. These things are confusing and overwhelming and maybe the answer was Option C (whatever that is, a commune? leading hikers on trips in the mountains?)
---- a girl who is looked up to and regarded as "perfect" has made a few mistakes and feels embarrassed by some, humiliated by others, and is always fearful that someone will approach her and say, "You know, I know about....[whatever]".(Thi s, of course, has happened to me.) But this student attended West Point and had been trained not to take dishonor lightly, and may have left an old life behind thinking it wasn't just for her, but for her family. This doesn't sound right because although she thinks she's saving her family from dishonor, there is the pain THIS causes her family...
Anyway, I would love to hear an announcement of a press conference, Mason. Please keep posting your ideas.

Mason wrote:

RE: partial quote from Whitewash #8425 @ p. 419
<quoted text>
I'm not challenging the authenticity of the quoted material because I'm confident that you would not misrepresent statements published by the Journal Opinion.

Mason, one thing you might want to bear in mind as you read that particular article from the Journal Opinion is that White Wash is the author of the article.

Just want to say that although I've outlined reasons a college student might want to run away, I don't have a clue what happened with Maura. I am not blaming her for anything. She is like all of us, only, in many ways, better. I still find it difficult to believe she was hurt because I do have the fantasy that with her military training and wiry strength she could defend herself. If someone hurt her, that person needs to be punished to the limit. Any limit. Wanted to make my stand clear.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Mason, one thing you might want to bear in mind as you read that particular article from the Journal Opinion is that White Wash is the author of the article.

What is it you are insinuating Firecat? Are you saying that because WW is the author of the article that it is not true?
I honestly don't know how WW hangs in here offering whatever facts she knows as she gets raked over the coals and questioned just about every time she tries to help by offering whatever facts she knows.

This was taken from the Hanson Express Article!
So FireCat seems to be some confusion by
your statement just in my opinion.

Maura called a fellow nursing student at 1:13 p.m., though the purpose for her call is not clear. According to John Healey, a New Hampshire private investigator who is familiar with the case, Maura may have arranged to give her scrubs to a fellow nursing student. Family member Helena Murray maintains that Maura, always conscientious, was merely returning scrubs she borrowed from another student.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
They were not scrubs, according to the family. They were street clothes, after Maura unexpectedly stayed the night because of bad weather. Someone mentioned this a few pages ago, and I reposted. Just gonna keep gently reminding everyone until it registers.:)

Mason -

BRILLIANT overview and analysis.

I buy into the Vasi connection and possible timeframe. Your statements relative to sequencing of possible events, Maura's reactions, your conclusions and open questions make sense to me.

Having just had one accident with property damage, the inevitable consequences for yet another...this one with bodily injury...would be a terribly frightening prospect.
This, only if confirmation of location, and Maura's breaktime fit, as you mention.

I'd hope the posters who've worked so many years to catalog the details of Maura's disappearance would choose to work with you and within your suggested logical framework, in order to bring together pertinent pieces of information while definitively ruling in/ruling out possibilities.

Many thanks for showing up.

Sadly lots of people living here
are treated that way!
As you have witness for yourselves.
Oddly we keep trying simply because
it's the right thing to do.

Thank You!!

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
What is it you are insinuating Firecat? Are you saying that because WW is the author of the article that it is not true?
I honestly don't know how WW hangs in here offering whatever facts she knows as she gets raked over the coals and questioned just about every time she tries to help by offering whatever facts she knows.

white wash...let me get this right. You are saying that Fred saw the pictures and then sued the state of New Hampshire for the right to see the same pictures?

And the reason the public hasn't seen the pictures is?

Towing the car for a short distance would also crack the bumper and not damage the license plate. I don't think the same for hitting a frozen snow bank.

How do you know what HPD and Fred/Family talked or showed him in the first few weeks of Maura missing?
Fred is suing the entire State for it all!
If you read the court papers Fred did request photographs so how would he know there where
any to request is my question back to you?
Do you believe Fred has share with the Public
all the information he has?
I certainly don't.
I don't have copies of the photographs it was something I saw and inquired on so MY BAD for asking questions and getting answers to the Public let's fight some more about who knows what instead of what we all know! Silly Me!

mcsmom wrote:

white wash...let me get this right. You are saying that Fred saw the pictures and then sued the state of New Hampshire for the right to see the same pictures?
And the reason the public hasn't seen the pictures is?
Towing the car for a short distance would also crack the bumper and not damage the license plate. I don't think the same for hitting a frozen snow bank.

white wash....I don't believe Fred knew for sure there were photographs taken, but if we are to believe, as you said LE followed protocol the night of the accident, then I assume he thought there were photos as anyone would.

Hello all,

I believe it was Mason who in a previous post recently advanced the theory that Maura may have been filling up her car when passing through Woodsville, and that someone might have put the rag in the exhaust of the Saturn while she went to pay for the gas.
There are be at least four gas stations along the US302 in Woodsville according to the web-based telephone directory for the area.
If a rag was put into the exhaust of the Saturn in Woodsville, it would seem likely that Maura´s car most probably may have stalled somewhere on the US302/NH10 on the stretch between Woodsville and the NH112 intersection in the direction of Bath/Littleton.
It would seem rather unlikely that she could have made it onto the 112 before the car stalled.

As far as I have been able to ascertain the stretch of the US302/NH 10 between Woodsville and the NH112 intersection is a fairly heavily trevalled stretch of highway.
Could this be where the disputed first accident overheard by several people in the area might have taken place?
Could Maura´s Saturn have stalled and caused the "mysterious" first accident on the US302/NH 10 somewhere between Woodsville and the NH112 turnoff?

Even on an early evening in February there should have been several witnesses to have observed such a presumed accident/incident on this rather heavily travelled road. The publicly known lack of any such witness(es) is therefore surprising.

Also:
I believe there was some talk on this board some time ago about a local towing-truck operator in the Woodsville area who apparently had the habit of "scanning" the roads in the area for potential clients, and with a certain shady reputation to his name.

Just an idea, but could this individual have been encountering Maura on the US302/NH 10 on the above-mentioned stretch in connection with the disputed first accident overheard by several people in the area?

Interesting so you are in deed
assuming not knowing exactly what was gone over
with the family correct?

Am I understanding you correctly that someone who
has repeatly stated LE screwed up would assume
they took photos?

And request them via the court just by assuming
someone who did such a crappy job had photos!
Intersting thoughts.

This theory is called hummmmmmmm back peddling I do believe!

Good Day!

mcsmom wrote:

white wash....I don't believe Fred knew for sure there were photographs taken, but if we are to believe, as you said LE followed protocol the night of the accident, then I assume he thought there were photos as anyone would.

From the Hanson Express as well
“The truth is, I got one message and it was 3:26 the following day,” he said.(Fred Murray)

Also in the article, Haverhill officer Cecil Smith says Murray told him Maura was “depressed” over a previous accident and that he hoped she wasn’t “doing the old squaw walk,” a euphemism for suicide. Murray denies saying his daughter was depressed and claims the squaw comment was taken out of context.(Other papers have quoted Fred as not making this statement)

At 3:20 p.m. on Tuesday, Fred Murray got a voicemail on his home phone telling him his car had been abandoned in Woodsville, New Hampshire. Fred was at a contract job in another state and did not receive that message until much later. At 5 p.m. Fred received a cell phone cam his daughter Kathleen; Maura's car had been abandoned and she was missing, Kathleen told her father.

From The Journal Opinon.
At 3:30 p.m., Smith returned to duty and called Weymouth Police Department requesting they check the residence listed on the DMV information. They still had not heard from Fred Murray. Weymouth PD instead directed Smith to contact Laurie Murray's phone number.At 3:40 p.m., Smith spoke to Laurie Murray who informed him that the black Saturn belonged to her ex-husband Fred Murray but is driven by their daughter Maura. Laurie gave Smith the number to Maura's cell phone and to her dorm at the University of Massachusetts. Right after that conversation, Smith again tried Fred Murray's phone number and left another message. He also spoke with Hanson Police Department again at 3:51 p.m.
Smith called Maura Murray's sister, Kathleen Murray at 4:40 p.m. requesting a photo of Maura. Kathleen said she would email one to Haverhill Police Department.
At 6 p.m., Grafton County Dispatch was contacted by Fred Murray

Since I don't have college aged children
How many here would not be worried and
start calling cell phones when a child
didn't call you at a planned time?
Maura was supposed to call Fred at 8 PM on
Sunday and never did.
This has always puzzled me.