Where is MAURA MURRAY

No, no, sophie, you’re wrong, you’re wrong. The chemical trucks drove over the covered bridges near the train station designed by the third cousin of the MMW architects where they met the closer who showed them where the alien was beside the railroad tracks next to the rivers and it all shook things up so bad the pot called the kettle black! Point made?

claysoup wrote:

No, no, sophie, you’re wrong, you’re wrong. The chemical trucks drove over the covered bridges near the train station designed by the third cousin of the MMW architects where they met the closer who showed them where the alien was beside the railroad tracks next to the rivers and it all shook things up so bad the pot called the kettle black! Point made?

Now that is funny!!!!!

Yes it is..

Can you image living in the area?
Yea this is what the open their doors
to daily!

Round up those who believe and buy CW's house see it's for sale!

sophie bean wrote:

Claysoup, you asked what I believe and don't believe. Fair enough.
I believe that it is loathsome and frankly suspicious for anyone to attack Maura's family in their search for answers.
I believe that Floyd, as violent and dangerous as he clearly is, had nothing whatsoever to do with Maura's disappearance, and anything that suggests that he did is deflecting attention, intentionally or inadvertently, from the actual crime.
I do not believe that she committed suicide, or intended to commit suicide.
I do not believe that she was drunk, had an accident, and fled the scene to avoid DUI charges.
I do not believe that the damage to her car was caused by "trees" or "snowbanks" but another, less innocent object, and most likely another vehicle.
I believe that the evidence at the A-frame is very relevant, maybe pivotal. It also is connected to Pauline Clark's not-so-"accidental" death a few yards away.
I believe that it is likely that Maura, and possibly many other victims in NH, probably also VT, maybe ME and maybe Quebec, over 20-30 years, were victims of a serial killer who is still very much in the area and very much a threat.
I believe that SBD knows a lot more than he has told, maybe out of guilt, maybe out of fear, or a combination.
I believe that the CW's story is extremely suspicious on many levels.
I think, though I am not sure, that the important answers are in the Swiftwater area, not at UMass.
I believe that LE was more than negligent, that they are actively covering up facts or covering for someone who may or may not actually be in LE or emergency services.
I believe that it is very significant that there is a high level of hostility among many locals of the area toward those who are looking for answers, and I think this narrow-mindedness is fueled by a guilt about some of the elements present in these communities that is going unchecked. I think it's also fueled by a foolhardy sense that it somehow won't touch them. I see a combination of fear and powerlessness about the "powers that be", as well as a strong dislike for outsiders.

I think any speculation that Maura *saw something she shouldn't have seen* in the Haverhill/Woodsville area and that this led to her being abducted ... is pretty unlikely. Drug dealers nearly always leave "civilians" alone and commit personal injury crimes against members of their own or rival groups. One possibility, however, is that someone (drug dealer or not) DID try to car-jack Maura. The Saturn she was driving was, at the time, one of the most desirable cars to steal.

Wow! How long did it take to imagine this one?
Up in the North Country things are run differently. New Hampshire is full of secret societies which all have their own adgenda. However the chances of someone randomly carjacking someone is highly unlikely. There is a better chance of her having seen something she shouldn't have. Another possibility is she could have been the victim of a meth-head, especially in that area.
There is too much suspicion and theories right from the moment her car was,"STAGED!"

What could Maura possibly have seen that she "shouldn't have"? Given the driving time between Amherst and Woodsville, it was dark or nearly so by the time she got into that area. She was on roads she was not familiar with, so she was most likely paying close attention to the road and the route signs, not looking around to notice who was hanging out with whom -- not that she would know any of the locals anyway. Again with reference to drug deals -- people all the time know which houses in their neighborhoods are dealing crack and such, but the drug dealers don't go abducting all the neighbors just so no one will be able to identify "those" houses. When they deal on street corners, they don't run around to every parked or passing car either to check and see if anyone is paying attention.

So, while driving on potentially slippery, strange roads just after dark, what exactly could Maura have possibly seen that would cause someone to feel a need to chase her down and dispose of her? Were there any murders that night in that area that she might have witnessed, etc.?

tinkerbell wrote:

Oh My,
Have you been out to Conrad's house?

Yes I have! It was before and after the murder and I have other friends that lived on that road who hav now moved out of the area just like I have as the criminal element in that area is still in the area and no one wants to meet up with them all though I have met them on my terms and seen what they are and they arn't as bad as they think they are!
They are just a band of outlaws that have moved into that area and have been there for a number of years but in 2004 they got really brave and commited a few murders but I thought it was all drug related and having to do with territories and such but why they took Maura is something that still has me a bit puzzled!
Can you say beatle juice beatle juice beatle juice?
Why they murdered Tom has me a bit puzzled as well because as far as I know Tom was a small time get me a bag kinda man as far as I know but I havn't read the Police Report so I am unsure of the facts if they are even in the Report. For all I knowI may know more tat they do about Tom and Maura both at this point.
I had a meeting at the Justice Dept. in Concord and let the people in charge know what I know June 3 2008 and they seemed interested in the knowledge and facts as I knew them.
I have to say SP Trooper Hubbard is very uninterested in any people helping as I called him 6 times and he returned my call once when he knew I would be sleeping. Some of the other Det.'s seem to be asleep on this case as well!
Like Robert Bruno told me do the speed limit or under and be carefull who I talk to as there are Police in the SP Troop F that are not trust worthy so I took my Information to the Justice Dept. in Concord in person eliminating the Phone tag and pushing Hubbard out of the loop!!!! I thought Hubbard cared but I found out the person who really cares so far is Dick Tracy, ok Batman!

A few pages back someone asked about the red pickup truck seen that night. I couldn't access the sheriff's log at the Hanson Express today without signing in, so I didn't. IIRC 4 out of 6 vehicles stopped that night up for, like, faulty equipment, etc., until approx. 6AM Feb. 10 were red pickups.

WHAT WAS THE LIGHTING LIKE ON FEB. 9TH? Over the last few days here people here were considering the lighting at or around the time of Maura's accident(s), so:

In case it isn't already posted here, here's some info on sunset, twilight, etc. I think Feb. 9, 2004 was about 3 days past a full moon.

Definitions of the different types of twilight further below. Left the sunrise times in for whatever reason:

Twi A: 5:14am
Twi N: 5:47am
Twi: 6:20am
Sunrise: 6:50am
Sunset: 5:07pm
Twi: 5:36pm
Twi N: 6:09pm - nautical
Twi A: 6:42pm - astronomical
Moonrise: 8:52pm
Moonset: 8:44am

Pasted from <http://www.sunrisesunset.com/calendar.asp> ;
SunriseSunset.com

Definitions

Civil Twilight
Civil twilight is defined when the sun is 6 degrees below the horizon. This is the limit at which twilight illumination is sufficient, under good weather conditions, for terrestrial objects to be clearly distinguished; at the beginning of morning civil twilight, or end of evening civil twilight, the horizon is clearly defined and the brightest stars are visible under good atmospheric conditions in the absence of moonlight or other illumination. In the morning before the beginning of civil twilight and in the evening after the end of civil twilight, artificial illumination is normally required to carry on ordinary outdoor activities.

Nautical Twilight
Nautical twilight is defined when the sun is 12 degrees below the horizon. At the beginning or end of nautical twilight, under good atmospheric conditions and in the absence of other illumination, general outlines of ground objects may be distinguishable, but detailed outdoor operations are not possible, and the horizon is indistinct.

Astronomical Twilight
Astronomical twilight is defined when the sun is 18 degrees below the horizon. Before the beginning of astronomical twilight in the morning and after the end of astronomical twilight in the evening the sun does not contribute to sky illumination; for a considerable interval after the beginning of morning twilight and before the end of evening twilight, sky illumination is so faint that it is practically imperceptible.

Pasted from <http://www.sunrisesunset.com/definitions.html... ;

tinkerbell wrote:

<quoted text>
Now that is funny!!!!!

hahahhaha yes it is!

tinkerbell wrote:

Wow! How long did it take to imagine this one?
Up in the North Country things are run differently. New Hampshire is full of secret societies which all have their own adgenda. However the chances of someone randomly carjacking someone is highly unlikely. There is a better chance of her having seen something she shouldn't have. Another possibility is she could have been the victim of a meth-head, especially in that area.
There is too much suspicion and theories right from the moment her car was,"STAGED!"

I agree the car either came to a hault at the MMM site or it was a staging
incodent!!
I do not believe that it was the work of a Meth Head because meth was legal in the 40's, 50's and 60's just like LSD was along with many other drugs and the drug heads didn't cause murders then and they don't now! In the area we are speaking of there are drug dealers and druggies who I believe in my oversight are more interested in Smoking Pot and Smoking Freebase Cocaine than they are in Meth, at least that is what I have witnessed. The Meth or Crank Heads are people you just leave alone and don't bother them as it is an unwritten rule because they are alittle unstable and few and far between up in the Haverhill area because they can go off on you at any given moment!
Why was Maura in that area is what I want to know? Was she after alittle Coke or Pot? This is the one question that still has me puzzled unless she had a friend up in there because it is very sparsley populated in some area's up in that area. Did Maura run into a friend that said hey lets go get high or lets go get a drink in Woodsville or was she meeting a friend in Swiftwater or the surrounding area to hang out with and this whole adventure turn sour and Maura was given a Mickey and they triied to have sex with her but she was awake enough to know that was wrong and escaped which then a chase started and they kept. slamming her car off into snowbanks untill the drug took total control of Maura and she ended up in that snowbank with her slumped over the steering wheel! Then the creeps took her and left a woman matching her discription for people to see but was ordered to leave before the police got there.
If they were going to steal her Auto well it would still be missing, unless she caught someone stealing her car and she was knocked in the head and abducted!
To sum this up I have to say #1 There was a reason Maura was in the area of Haverhill,#2 There is a reason Maura's car was found where it was,#3 The bad people that took Maura are still in the area I believe and were part of quite a few other similar cases where people were killed or abducted and it isn't one person it is a ring of criminals that have moved into the area.
In any case they will strike again once they figure out who the real DON is in that area and will try to take over Haverhill as there is alot to gain with all the drug users there is alot of money to be made and Haverhill is growing in leaps and bounds and there is alot of money to be made there!
Greed and Sex is the motive for most crimes so she met someone from Haverhill and wanted to either date them or wanted a better pot hookup n my opinion unless it was all innocent and they were meeting to go on a skiing trip, unless her car broke down and she met up with Claude and he took advantage of her.
The thing about small towns is everyone knows everyones buisness and if they don't it will finally come out after awhile! I havemore information but that if only given to Fred or the Justice Department in Concord or in DC!

OH MY, I too have been to Tom Conrads and spoke with his mother. I also saw and spoke to Tom and Brud just before the incident.

I am courious as to where his hunting cabin is. There is a rumor that must be cleared up.
Do you know anything about his hunting buddies and or the general location of his cabin?

tinkerbell wrote:

OH MY, I too have been to Tom Conrads and spoke with his mother. I also saw and spoke to Tom and Brud just before the incident.
I am courious as to where his hunting cabin is. There is a rumor that must be cleared up.
Do you know anything about his hunting buddies and or the general location of his cabin?

I never went hunting with Tom or Brud or any of the other hunters as I havn't hunted since 1976! I know his Mother and his siblings.
I can ask the family or his hunting buddies where the hunting cabin is when I talk to them next ok and report that to you ok!
There was a cabin that Tom used on the otherside of Lake Tarlton but it was burned to the ground just before his death, I believe I have the dates right!
That could have been the cabin you are referring to, I am unsure but I will find out.
I can find out

Advocator wrote:

What could Maura possibly have seen that she "shouldn't have"? Given the driving time between Amherst and Woodsville, it was dark or nearly so by the time she got into that area. She was on roads she was not familiar with, so she was most likely paying close attention to the road and the route signs, not looking around to notice who was hanging out with whom -- not that she would know any of the locals anyway. Again with reference to drug deals -- people all the time know which houses in their neighborhoods are dealing crack and such, but the drug dealers don't go abducting all the neighbors just so no one will be able to identify "those" houses. When they deal on street corners, they don't run around to every parked or passing car either to check and see if anyone is paying attention.
So, while driving on potentially slippery, strange roads just after dark, what exactly could Maura have possibly seen that would cause someone to feel a need to chase her down and dispose of her? Were there any murders that night in that area that she might have witnessed, etc.?

I think the key word here is just at dusk or just after dark!
Great time to Stage an accident or abduct someone or for that matter commit a crime also there are a few other times in the day when it would work equally as well while everyone is busy eating supper is a good time don't you think?
You have to think like a criminal to catch a criminal right!
I used to be a criminal in my earlier years and sold Pot and Moonshine for Popcorn so I know how they think maybe thats why I know so much about the area in Haverhill and the people who live there where I used to live!

sophie bean wrote:

Claysoup, you asked what I believe and don't believe. Fair enough.
I believe that it is loathsome and frankly suspicious for anyone to attack Maura's family in their search for answers.
I believe that Floyd, as violent and dangerous as he clearly is, had nothing whatsoever to do with Maura's disappearance, and anything that suggests that he did is deflecting attention, intentionally or inadvertently, from the actual crime.
I do not believe that she committed suicide, or intended to commit suicide.
I do not believe that she was drunk, had an accident, and fled the scene to avoid DUI charges.
I do not believe that the damage to her car was caused by "trees" or "snowbanks" but another, less innocent object, and most likely another vehicle.
I believe that the evidence at the A-frame is very relevant, maybe pivotal. It also is connected to Pauline Clark's not-so-"accidental" death a few yards away.
I believe that it is likely that Maura, and possibly many other victims in NH, probably also VT, maybe ME and maybe Quebec, over 20-30 years, were victims of a serial killer who is still very much in the area and very much a threat.
I believe that SBD knows a lot more than he has told, maybe out of guilt, maybe out of fear, or a combination.
I believe that the CW's story is extremely suspicious on many levels.
I think, though I am not sure, that the important answers are in the Swiftwater area, not at UMass.
I believe that LE was more than negligent, that they are actively covering up facts or covering for someone who may or may not actually be in LE or emergency services.
I believe that it is very significant that there is a high level of hostility among many locals of the area toward those who are looking for answers, and I think this narrow-mindedness is fueled by a guilt about some of the elements present in these communities that is going unchecked. I think it's also fueled by a foolhardy sense that it somehow won't touch them. I see a combination of fear and powerlessness about the "powers that be", as well as a strong dislike for outsiders.

Well now us locals are narrow minded, hostile, foolhardy and have a strong dislike for outsiders.
Funny I felt none of these things until I read your post Sophie Bean but I'm sure feeling some of them now. Please don't speak for us or pretend to know our feeling. You evidently know nothing about us.
Are you singlehandedly trying to drive the new people that are posting new and fresh ideas away?
Maybe some ideas presented are a little far fetched but not any more so than the idea of an alien head being placed as some sort of sign on the MMM site. I would think the people looking for answers would be happy that more new people are coming forward to help.
BTW Benton flats is several miles away from Swiftwater on RT 25 on the other side of Pike. It's a flat stretch with fields on one side.
Much too far away for any signs to be left and have any meaning.
I was very happy to see KR posting again. He/she seems to be one of a very few that actually makes sense and speaks logically. Hopefully they will stay this time and not be driven away again.

quija wrote:

A few pages back someone asked about the red pickup truck seen that night. I couldn't access the sheriff's log at the Hanson Express today without signing in, so I didn't. IIRC 4 out of 6 vehicles stopped that night up for, like, faulty equipment, etc., until approx. 6AM Feb. 10 were red pickups.
WHAT WAS THE LIGHTING LIKE ON FEB. 9TH? Over the last few days here people here were considering the lighting at or around the time of Maura's accident(s), so:
In case it isn't already posted here, here's some info on sunset, twilight, etc. I think Feb. 9, 2004 was about 3 days past a full moon.
Definitions of the different types of twilight further below. Left the sunrise times in for whatever reason:
Twi A: 5:14am
Twi N: 5:47am
Twi: 6:20am
Sunrise: 6:50am
Sunset: 5:07pm
Twi: 5:36pm
Twi N: 6:09pm - nautical
Twi A: 6:42pm - astronomical
Moonrise: 8:52pm
Moonset: 8:44am
Pasted from <http://www.sunrisesunset.com/calendar.asp> ;
SunriseSunset.com
Definitions
Civil Twilight
Civil twilight is defined when the sun is 6 degrees below the horizon. This is the limit at which twilight illumination is sufficient, under good weather conditions, for terrestrial objects to be clearly distinguished; at the beginning of morning civil twilight, or end of evening civil twilight, the horizon is clearly defined and the brightest stars are visible under good atmospheric conditions in the absence of moonlight or other illumination. In the morning before the beginning of civil twilight and in the evening after the end of civil twilight, artificial illumination is normally required to carry on ordinary outdoor activities.
Nautical Twilight
Nautical twilight is defined when the sun is 12 degrees below the horizon. At the beginning or end of nautical twilight, under good atmospheric conditions and in the absence of other illumination, general outlines of ground objects may be distinguishable, but detailed outdoor operations are not possible, and the horizon is indistinct.
Astronomical Twilight
Astronomical twilight is defined when the sun is 18 degrees below the horizon. Before the beginning of astronomical twilight in the morning and after the end of astronomical twilight in the evening the sun does not contribute to sky illumination; for a considerable interval after the beginning of morning twilight and before the end of evening twilight, sky illumination is so faint that it is practically imperceptible.
Pasted from <http://www.sunrisesunset.com/definitions.html... ;

The night that Maura came up missing it was overcast and snowing up in Swiftwater N.H. so it was a perfect time for the criminal element to pull off something like this abduction.
I don't believe Maura would have gotten in just any car but if a Policeman happened by the scene she would have gotten in with them right!
Well there is a Serial Killer that wonders around that area but he is usually in another State in the winter so I don't believe he was the one who perpetrated this abduction but I could be wrong and there maybe more than one Serial Killer running around up there!
I cannot discuss the details in this case if it was him but I was told there was a snow storm that night so why didn't Sgt. Smith follow the tracks to the A-Frame home where Claude and Skye lived at the time?
Chief Williams of HPD drives a red Ford truck maybe he picked her up!
What a tangled web we weave once we start to decieve!

White Wash wrote:

Can you image living in the area?
Yea this is what the open their doors
to daily!
Round up those who believe and buy CW's house see it's for sale!
<quoted text>

So true, so lets do it!
The only problem is that I am sure the SP of N.H. have already had CSI in there and I am sure the home is void of any DNA! Now I was told they put in a new septic system so thats another place to look.
I don't want to say to much as I could jeprodize the case that is still being investigated so I have to be real carefull what I say!

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
Well now us locals are narrow minded, hostile, foolhardy and have a strong dislike for outsiders.
Funny I felt none of these things until I read your post Sophie Bean but I'm sure feeling some of them now. Please don't speak for us or pretend to know our feeling. You evidently know nothing about us.
Are you singlehandedly trying to drive the new people that are posting new and fresh ideas away?
Maybe some ideas presented are a little far fetched but not any more so than the idea of an alien head being placed as some sort of sign on the MMM site. I would think the people looking for answers would be happy that more new people are coming forward to help.
BTW Benton flats is several miles away from Swiftwater on RT 25 on the other side of Pike. It's a flat stretch with fields on one side.
Much too far away for any signs to be left and have any meaning.
I was very happy to see KR posting again. He/she seems to be one of a very few that actually makes sense and speaks logically. Hopefully they will stay this time and not be driven away again.

I agree with you Wowzer! As far as Benton Flats it is approxamatly 10 miles away if you take Long Pond Rd. to get there! I have to say that the locals up in Haverhill at least the innocent ones have gone out of thier way to help in any way they can to help Fred find out the truth isn't that right Fred and isn't that right Columbo!
So please stop with sterotyping the people from Haverhill as they are FINE people at least 99% are it is the 1% like Chief Williams, Sgt. Smith and other others of HPD and some of the other criminal element that are the problem here!!!!!!!!!!

If Sgt. Smith would have sent an all points bulletin out when he found the car at the MMM site I believe Maura would be with her family now!!!!!!!
This is rediculous!

Have a geat day everyone and God Bless the Murray family from my family to yours your friend the Ghostrider!