Joined: Jun 7, 2008
Comments: 152
Arizona
ISP:
Denver, CO
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Judged:
1
If the Saturn went to Haverhill *without Maura driving it*, then either whoever took it up there or whoever arranged to have it taken up there, was someone who knew that Maura loved the White Mtns ... and it was probably taken there to SUGGEST that Maura had driven it there. It would be far too coincidental that someone just happened to take the Saturn to the White Mtns, IMHO. Also, then, what are we to make of the computer searches and calls Maura made looking for places to stay up in the White Mtns? And re the Saturn being up in the White Mtns prior to Monday ... how could that be, when Fred Murray was in Amherst on the weekend and he and Maura looking at replacement cars? We don't know if Fred saw the Saturn that weekend, but he may have. And even if he didn't, what would Maura do if he asked to see it (which would be not only normal but even expected since he might want to check something re trade-in considerations).
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Quija
Concord, MA
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So one article above DID say "FBI agents will probably return to UMass-Amherst..." so altho we know every article is different, maybe they DID interview people at UMass too.
NOW I'm gonna look to see where I read that the FBI was also handling areas outside of NH and MA, like CT, NY and VT.... I'll post them when i find them.
THANKS OH MY FOR YOUR POST. IT JUST SEEMED LIKE A COINCIDENCE THAT MONAHAN WAS RIGHT AT THE SATURN SCENE AT THE TIME EVERYTHING WAS HAPPENING. It made me think something more was going on too. Not saying LE was doing anything wrong, just maybe working on more than Maura...
HEY -- IF MONAHAN WORKED OUT OF CONCORD YET WAS IN THE AREA (THIS IS A GUESS) NOT LONG AFTER 7pm, HE MUST'VE HEADED THAT WAY BEFORE MAURA HAD EVEN GOTTEN UP TO HAVERHILL? Does that make sense?
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Quija
Concord, MA
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http://www.wptz.com/news/3356897/detail.html This link says that an FBI unit out of Quantico, VA might be heading to VT to meet with officials about both Maura and Brianna. I have no idea if, when or where that meeting took place. I am trying to find back-up for sophie bean who questioned where the FBI had involvement in Maura's case. Sophie keeps excellent documentation, I've heard, but I did want to show that the FBI were in Mass, were at UMass, and interviewed family and friends. The links in the above posts seems to show this, and I want to find the articles that referred to NY, VT and CT.
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OH MY
Saint Johnsbury, VT
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FireCat wrote: It IS true that the only way FBI was utilized in the case was to do MA interviews of friends etc.(Obviously UMass police only has jurisdiction at UMass, so it's silly to expect them to work anywhere else.)
The trouble with assuming this means that the big secret is indeed at Amherst is that the FBI OFFERED to help in New Hampshire and were REFUSED by NH LE. They need to be invited to help. They can't just swoop in like they do on TV, unless there's clear evidence of interstate crime.(the fact that Maura appears to have left MA under her own volition is why they can't claim automatic jurisdiction, unless I'm mistaken.)
With the LE in NH refusing help at that end, this means that the ONLY other place for the FBI to be involved in any way, shape, or form, is someplace where NH has no jurisdiction. Which is MA.
It seems to me (and this is ONLY MY OPINION) that NH LE sent the FBI to go off and play in a corner with the pots and pans while they themselves remained in charge of cooking the actual meal. And that this is the way they wanted it, for whatever reason (whether incriminating or simply the fairly standard "we don't need no national law enforcement help in our local PD" business that occurs throughout state and local PDs everywhere. They tend to get testy because they see it as the feds implying that they can't do their jobs.)
Not necessarily the best use of their resources, especially considering that HPD was decidedly and admittedly understaffed at that point in time. I don't know whether it was NHSP or HPD who made that decision, but I do know that HPD was hurtin' for manpower at that point. Don't forget we are talking about Haverhill being the county seat with alot of resorces like the GCSD, SP, HPD, Swat, Border Patrol, Marshalls, Investigators, Undercovers, State Workers ect. ect. It didn't take long to find Powell's murderer and the Gray murderers but the Tom Conrad Killer nothing was that because he was a known drug dealer and had drugs in his truck? So is this a way to keep Homeland Security tight just like it was OK to kill prisoners in Guantanamo Bay and Torture them as well for Homeland Security? Is it ok to kill a few to save millions or is our goverment just parinoid? I don't watch CSI nor am I a conspiracy theorist and UFO's are not real in my opinion. There are more police in Haverhill area than there are prisoners in the Grafton County Correction Facilty both full and part time. So there were no lack of resorces not to mention they have Ray Burton counsil to the Govenor to sweep anything under the carpet that gets loose just like he did with Liko Kenney's case!!!!! Oh and wasn't Liko killed in 2004 as well and didn't the police try to clean up the drug dealers in Franconia by doing random search's on his cousin's Body Millers buisness's and then Body got so upset he bought a new farm and started a new buisness in Austin Texas after they killed Liko who they thought was doing something like selling drugs, it sure wasn't bout Liko being a smart ass or not having his car inspected to bother him as bad as they did since the words Cavity search was something Liko was used to hearing alot to the point Liko was driven to the point he was willing to kill a cop to stop?
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FireCat
United States
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Quija wrote: So one article above DID say "FBI agents will probably return to UMass-Amherst..." so altho we know every article is different, maybe they DID interview people at UMass too.
NOW I'm gonna look to see where I read that the FBI was also handling areas outside of NH and MA, like CT, NY and VT.... I'll post them when i find them.
THANKS OH MY FOR YOUR POST. IT JUST SEEMED LIKE A COINCIDENCE THAT MONAHAN WAS RIGHT AT THE SATURN SCENE AT THE TIME EVERYTHING WAS HAPPENING. It made me think something more was going on too. Not saying LE was doing anything wrong, just maybe working on more than Maura...
HEY -- IF MONAHAN WORKED OUT OF CONCORD YET WAS IN THE AREA (THIS IS A GUESS) NOT LONG AFTER 7pm, HE MUST'VE HEADED THAT WAY BEFORE MAURA HAD EVEN GOTTEN UP TO HAVERHILL? Does that make sense? I know that one of the PIs (though I don't remember which one, sorry guys!) said that those places had been investigated.
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“beauty ~ nature ~ the roar”
Joined: Jun 12, 2008
Comments: 643
Danvers, MA
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Judged:
1
Quija wrote: sophie,
A poster on TOPIX back last spring or summer just mentioned Jet Star. We discovered they did auto crushing after removing the fluids and sent the vehicles on to Boston for further crushing. No-one ever said the Saturn was crushed; in an earlier post i was wondering if that had been a possible goal. I, too, recall discussions about the car's having been crushed, and especially the talk about Fred's wanting it to be crushed! It didn't make sense to me that 1) Fred would have the authority to order such action be taken and 2) that he would ever desire that evidence be destroyed. Then, I recall Wowzer's discussing the car and location...and now, Columbo is affirming that it was not crushed and remains in NH.
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FireCat
United States
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Ahem. Let me restate. Haverhill Police Department had a manpower shortage. The following is from the Advisory Budget Committee Meeting Minutes of January 19, 2004.(Minutes taken by: Jo A Lacaillade, Administrative Assistant; Police Chief Jeffery Williams and Sgt. Cecil Smith were also there)
*****
This year was a busy year for the Haverhill PD. We were hit hard with severe manpower shortages; at one point we were down to just 3 police officers working. We had one officer out for over three months due to a serious injury from a fight that happened with an intoxicated subject; we lost one officer to the Sheriff’s Department and we weren’t able to recruit anybody, we went through several hiring processes and weren’t able to find anybody; then as the year went on the…town…made an adjustment to salaries and in the next hiring process we were able to hire two officers.
Chief Williams said he is presently up to 6 officers hired (ed. Note: this does not include the Chief himself, see next paragraph) but there are only 4 working presently. One officer has graduated the academy and is in the field training program ,which is 16 weeks, where he rides along and is taught the hands on aspects of the job; he is presently half way through that. The other officer is in his third week at the Police Academy so we won’t see him until March
*****
Whether or not they had access to resources is not my point--my point is that they did not make use of those resources, of which FBI was just one. With such a shortage, you'd think they'd have been doubly grateful for any help they could get.
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FireCat
United States
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Snowy White wrote: <quoted text>
I, too, recall discussions about the car's having been crushed, and especially the talk about Fred's wanting it to be crushed!
It didn't make sense to me that 1) Fred would have the authority to order such action be taken and 2) that he would ever desire that evidence be destroyed.
Then, I recall Wowzer's discussing the car and location...and now, Columbo is affirming that it was not crushed and remains in NH. Admittedly, at the time, Fred's mind was probably not on car disposal or potential evidence.
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“beauty ~ nature ~ the roar”
Joined: Jun 12, 2008
Comments: 643
Danvers, MA
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FireCat wrote: <quoted text>
Admittedly, at the time, Fred's mind was probably not on car disposal or potential evidence. I was unhappy to read such a suggestion about Fred's 'involvement' at the time - but I was new to the forum and did not have any historical perspective to refute it.
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quija
Concord, MA
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Okay, we know the Saturn was NOT crushed.
The history of the "crushing scenario" was:
TOPIX posters were tossing around the idea that there may have been an intention (before Maura went missing) to crush the Saturn.(SPECULATION) Some seemed to think it was for the purpose of destroying evidence of a hit and run (SPECULATION). And IIRC a local poster might have been relating a planned crushing of the Saturn to criminal activity and use of the Saturn by someone other than Maura (SPECULATION).
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propaganda firetruck
Boulder, CO
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Sara wrote: Hello everyone,
Does anyone have thoughts on why they can't show the ATM/liquor store videos? Previous posters have stated that the family has not even seen the video(s). If that is true, how does LE know that it is Maura on video if her family has not identified her on it?
Which LE has jurisdiction on those videos? Hi Sara, I'm thinking that LE doesn't want anyone to see the videos, or that the videos don't exist (a complete fabrication). On two seperate occassions I remember a local news channel showing the last known video recording of a missing person, both were in gas stations. I asked the question a long time ago whether or not a local MA or NE news station ever showed these videos at the time of Maura's disappearance, but no one ever claimed to see one. Many posters have stated that LE doesn't show these videos because it is an ongoing investigation, but I don't believe it. I've seen local news agencies show videos in other cases, so I'm a little confused as why this one is under lock and key. Maybe there is something on it that they don't want the family and public to see.
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FireCat
United States
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There is only ONE video. Not sure if it's of the liquor store or the ATM, but the family hasn't seen it.
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Quija
Concord, MA
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Judged:
1
two quick things sophie -- although it appears that the FBI did interview friends and family in Mass., including UMass, and also met with officials in VT, this DOES NOT MEAN (IMO) that NH allowed them to participate in a way that could have made a difference! That wasn't my angle ---- my angle (at the time) was that if the FBI was "assigned" Mass. interviewing duties, that maybe THAT was the important thing/place. FireCat made a good point that it might've been just "busy work". beagle --- i want to apologize for a horribly-worded statement i made. I was talking about how Ben Frankyne was "a real person", meaning "not a clone of anyone else". Instead, I said, "He's a real person; he's not Alden." That was the most horrible wording! And I apologize! I just meant he wasn't a "made-up" name. You get it, right? Hope that covers this week's mistakes, over and out
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Suzanne
Sharon, MA
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Wowzer wrote: <quoted text>
Where did you see it Caroline/Suzanne and why are you using two names? I am Suzanne never posted as Caroline. When I post (on other forums) my location comes up as Wellesley, Weston, Needham, Westwood, Norwood, Babson Park (I have neven even heard of Babson Park) and other iocales all in eastern MA. Verizon DSL retains a lot of ISPs. They cover a vast region. Maura is from Hanson and Weymouth so there are a lpt of eastern MA type people who are interested in her disappearance.
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Suzanne
Sharon, MA
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You see my last post just came up as Sharon!
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FireCat
United States
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Suzanne wrote: You see my last post just came up as Sharon! If you're not careful, people will think you're trying to BE sharon! (sophie, you know I'm teasing you....right?) Yeah, my ISP puts me all over the place. Most of the time it just says "United States" and leaves it at that, but oftentimes it has me in some odd places.
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whiston
Wallingford, CT
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hi al how the hell can L.E. not show the last known video of a missing person.Does it not exist .Does it NOT show the saturn .Does it show someone other than Maura.How can they put out a missing person poster and say,we can't tell you where she worked ,which atm she used ,which liquor store she went to ,where her clinicas where and what her class schedule was but if you were there at one of these mystery locations at a mystery time please help.All this happened in Amherst M.A. ,but we are supposed to look elsewhere.Why has Sarah Alfieri or Kate Markopoulos not come forward and said where Maura worked.As someone suggested with mrAtwwod were they asked to say nothing and did the same go for the Salamones .AMHERST and Mauras prior life can be proven, everything after that is still a mystery.5 years is far too long to get some answers from people that knew Maura on a day to day basis.What would stop them talking.take care philip
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gvmeabrk
Weare, NH
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Suzanne wrote: <quoted text>
I am Suzanne never posted as Caroline. When I post (on other forums) my location comes up as Wellesley, Weston, Needham, Westwood, Norwood, Babson Park (I have neven even heard of Babson Park) and other iocales all in eastern MA. Verizon DSL retains a lot of ISPs. They cover a vast region. Maura is from Hanson and Weymouth so there are a lpt of eastern MA type people who are interested in her disappearance. Am I the only poster that the city stays the same? Why is that?
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“beauty ~ nature ~ the roar”
Joined: Jun 12, 2008
Comments: 643
Gloucester, MA
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gvmeabrk wrote: <quoted text>
Am I the only poster that the city stays the same? Why is that? you're not. i am the other. AOL users seem to have options to "play". my provider, comcast, has fixed and fairly accurate geographic locations. maybe BF can tell us more.
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Suzanne
Sharon, MA
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gvmeabrk wrote: <quoted text>
Am I the only poster that the city stays the same? Why is that? Do you have Verizon DSL? I do and even with that sometimes my city stays the same for a while. Verizon states that they change your IP address every 15 minutes which may or may not change your city. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
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