Where is MAURA MURRAY

Dawn ~ i saw your request, buried...
MABlogger2008@gmail.com ....as needed

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
John,
The PIs believe there were two accidents that night. They believe the first one occurred within 1 to 3 miles of the second one. I used to believe in this previous accident theory until Bill, whose moniker is WTF, convinced me that all of the damage sustained by the Saturn occurred at the accident site where the Saturn was discovered. The issue of a possible previous accident arose because there is a prominent dent in the hood of the Saturn on the driver's side that appears to have been caused by an impact with an overhanging object, possibly a tow hitch.
Depending on the various theories one might conjure up to explain the circumstances of two accidents, one might theorize that Maura intended to take Rte 302, which is the recommended route to take to Bartlett, but she may have turned off on Rte 112 in an effort to elude someone pursuing her after that previous accident.
For this theory to be viable, one must suppose that Maura had managed to separate herself from a pursuing vehicle far enough to have turned off on the 112 without being seen by the person or persons in the pursuing vehicle. It continues on the 302 until the driver realizes that the Saturn turned off. The driver backtracks and turns down the 112 and arrives at the scene of the accident just after the SBD leaves the scene and the rest as some like to say is history.
This theory and other permutations and combinations of it are posted on the other site along with pictures of the damaged Saturn.
The PIs also consulted an accident reconstruction expert who has concluded that the Saturn could not have sustained all of the visible damage at the crash site.
Go check out the other site and judge for yourself.
Fred

Mason,

Actually, a nearby witness (Mr M-e) is said to have seen how the Saturn was wilfully being reversed into the snowbank on Rte 112.
According to his witness statement, this was no real accident of any kind but a faked, staged "accident".
Under these circumstances I can see why Mr M-e may not have been too keen to go outside and check out the Saturn.

I would like to hear from Lady Gray, John or Mason - to be held up in the court of law - all documents in all states need the date. I just IM'd legal. We do contracts in all 50 states on the QCC side of the business - the language is casual it would be even more wordy.

What laws were changed ? Do we have info on that ? Who else lives close and went to the court house
looking4 a moose? shack?

What else can one get from the court house? Who has tried? I am seriously considering calling dept of records and see what I can get copies of.

Snowy White wrote:

<quoted text>
not topic related, EWB - Mason mentioned doubleyah Bush...which ruffled my feathers...and with a few back and forths later, perhaps they are smoothed again. i don't fit the massachusetts stereotype.
it is, of course, not where you stand, but how you lean.
anyway, i miss the pix of your dawg. please tell me more...

Thanks for the explanation, lots of stuff has been flying right over my head these days.

I've always like Mrs. Bush Sr., I do have to admit.

I was too lazy to log in...lol. It's a photo of my golden retriever Beau who is still in the puppy stages with his favorite toy, a snowman. I thought you guys up North would enjoy it.

I liked the photo of your black dog. I wrote a blog about my big old black lab that I adopted from the pound and about how older large breed black dogs are the hardest to adopt dogs in the nation.

Euro - Who is Mr M e.. that is a new one. Who is that? Which neighbor? I thought we had SBD and the West... s

Dawn,

"In a 2006 decision, the Supreme Court clarified the law enforcement investigative records exception (A), interference with law enforcement proceedings. Murray v. New Hampshire Division of State Police, No 2006-113, Slip Op.(N.H. Dec. 20, 2006). To justify the withholding of records, an agency should categorize for the court the investigatory records and each category must be defined precisely. The description should not reveal the contents of withheld documents, but should provide enough information to allow a court to determine if the documents must be disclosed.

Affidavits, testimony, or other evidence should be provided to the court that explains how the disclosure of the information within the categories could interfere with any investigation or enforcement. The law enforcement agency may also be required to explain why there is no reasonably segregable portion of the withheld materials within the category that is suitable for release. Murray v. New Hampshire Division of State Police, No 2006-113, Slip Op.(N.H. Dec. 20, 2006)."

below is the link to the Right to Know Law in its entirety.

http://doj.nh.gov/publications/html_right_to_...

elsewherebriefly wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks for the explanation, lots of stuff has been flying right over my head these days.
I've always like Mrs. Bush Sr., I do have to admit.
I was too lazy to log in...lol. It's a photo of my golden retriever Beau who is still in the puppy stages with his favorite toy, a snowman. I thought you guys up North would enjoy it.
I liked the photo of your black dog. I wrote a blog about my big old black lab that I adopted from the pound and about how older large breed black dogs are the hardest to adopt dogs in the nation.

I am happy to hear Beau is still an adorable puppy. Live happy and long, Beau!
Mine is one of two...both growing older now...border collie mixes. Nearly human. ;-)

Bill - WTF..
Why did you post this on the thread about the reporter saying NH wanted to move on.
I am not MISS BOOTS..
And what beef do you have with me ???? I hope you have a better day - must be rough to have that much hostility.

Miss Boots wrote:
<quoted text>There is still a sick person out there that harmed her.
Really??

You have a body? Some evidence that Maura was hurt by someone? Somebody saw something? Anything?

Since I don't know what happened how do you know what happened? You weren’t one of those people responsible, were you? You seem to speak with an awful lot of either knowledge or authority. It makes me wonder? Unless of course you’re full of crap and don’t actually know anything?

And whatever happened how do you know where it happened?

I would love to have those answers so maybe we can end this for the family.

Your help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

By the way, I spend an inordinate amount of time in the woods usually alone, in and around there and I have no worries. I don't stay up nights fretting or shivering in my sleeping bag when I’m camped out. Or worried about my son if I’m camping with him. Nor do I worry about the day hikes I take with my wife. And I’ll let you in on a secret. Sometimes she goes alone -“Oh the horror”. So while I suspect that it is in the back of most peoples minds they clearly are still going on with their lives. If you find that odd then you don't know psychology.

But there are some here who are able to project and identify with people they don’t know so well and to such an extent that it allows others less feeling, apparently like me, to get along with their lives. That’s OK though since rarely do the cheerleaders and mourners seem to be the people that are out making a difference. But, cheerleading and needless mourning is an important function also. Some cultures actually pay for good mourners, cheerleader too.

Dawn, I am sure you are spending every waking minute of every day just grinding over what happened. Can’t eat or go to work and I’m sure you never have even a little snicker or laugh of any type. Oh, maybe not. So you have gotten on with your life also. That kind of puts you in the full of crap category along with a few others. I mean you can’t be doing enough if you aren’t spending every waking minute working on this. And why should you be sleeping when whatever needs to be done can’t wait?

Bill

Now I am even more confused............ That info on the right to know act says it would have been even MORE difficult to get info from the court house in NH than in any other state............. Now it is even guarded even more. We don't have a date on the doc so we don't know when it was filed - 04 or 06 but it looks like this would not be public record.

Dawn wrote:

Bill - WTF..
Why did you post this on the thread about the reporter saying NH wanted to move on.
I am not MISS BOOTS..
And what beef do you have with me ???? I hope you have a better day - must be rough to have that much hostility.
Miss Boots wrote:
<quoted text>There is still a sick person out there that harmed her.
Really??
You have a body? Some evidence that Maura was hurt by someone? Somebody saw something? Anything?
Since I don't know what happened how do you know what happened? You weren’t one of those people responsible, were you? You seem to speak with an awful lot of either knowledge or authority. It makes me wonder? Unless of course you’re full of crap and don’t actually know anything?
And whatever happened how do you know where it happened?
I would love to have those answers so maybe we can end this for the family.
Your help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
By the way, I spend an inordinate amount of time in the woods usually alone, in and around there and I have no worries. I don't stay up nights fretting or shivering in my sleeping bag when I’m camped out. Or worried about my son if I’m camping with him. Nor do I worry about the day hikes I take with my wife. And I’ll let you in on a secret. Sometimes she goes alone -“Oh the horror”. So while I suspect that it is in the back of most peoples minds they clearly are still going on with their lives. If you find that odd then you don't know psychology.
But there are some here who are able to project and identify with people they don’t know so well and to such an extent that it allows others less feeling, apparently like me, to get along with their lives. That’s OK though since rarely do the cheerleaders and mourners seem to be the people that are out making a difference. But, cheerleading and needless mourning is an important function also. Some cultures actually pay for good mourners, cheerleader too.
Dawn, I am sure you are spending every waking minute of every day just grinding over what happened. Can’t eat or go to work and I’m sure you never have even a little snicker or laugh of any type. Oh, maybe not. So you have gotten on with your life also. That kind of puts you in the full of crap category along with a few others. I mean you can’t be doing enough if you aren’t spending every waking minute working on this. And why should you be sleeping when whatever needs to be done can’t wait?
Bill

Dawn and WTF/the original...if I may please try to help.
I perfectly understand Bill's post, and agree with the content (not that my agreeing matters).
But, I do not believe Dawn is the poster who identifies herself as Miss Boots.
There is a resident mischief maker who poses under many monikers and locations...and so, once again, it is disconcerting to receive feedback on behalf of someone else.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
John,
The biggest problem with the Vasi theory is how did the Saturn get from Amherst to the accident site on the 112? The headlights were askew and could not have adequately illuminated the road, assuming that it was driveable. Most of the trip would have been after dark.
You need to look at the photos.
Fred

Ah, but ... if the Saturn hit Vasi, that hit wouldn't necessarily have caused the damage that was on the Saturn when it was found in Haverhill. If the Saturn hit Vasi, there may not have been much damage at all to the vehicle, so it could well have been fine to drive in that regard. But one or two accidents in the Haverhill area then could have caused the damage that was on the Saturn when found, i.e., the skewed headlights and such.

Two other points. First, regarding the time it took to drive from Amherst to Haverhill area, the Saturn was said to have not been running well, it has been said it was running on only 3 cylinders although I don't know that we have a firm confirmation of that.

Second, if there were 2 accidents as the PIs surmise, the car could not have been driven far with those skewed headlights -- not only re visibility matters (it was already dark) but also because oncoming cars would have really noticed those skewed headlights (it was already dark).

.

To clarify, I'd like to briefly restate a few variables about a possible Vasi hit in Amherst...and modify language from my previous post.

I. IF the Saturn hit Vasi

a) Maura may have been the driver
b) Maura may have been a passenger and witness

II. IF a vehicle hit Vasi, other than the Saturn

a) Maura may have been the driver
b) Maura may have been a passenger and witness

III. Maura may have loaned her Saturn to someone else, and that driver may have hit Vasi without Maura's being present.

Her reaction to each of these different circumstances remains unknown.

If a Vasi hit necessitated moving the Saturn away from Amherst, it is possible she could have been accompanied or followed in another car/truck by a friend/acquaintance, male or female, to do so.
This person may or may not have been directly involved in the Vasi incident.

One, two or more people could have been involved.

That said, a car without an illuminated headlight or with noticeable damage is a cop magnet and at risk for being stopped. I agree with others who may believe the car was not driven from Amherst in this condition.

In building on a Vasi theory, none of this may be true...purely speculative.

WTF - Please explain that post to me.

Snowy White wrote:

To clarify, I'd like to briefly restate a few variables about a possible Vasi hit in Amherst...and modify language from my previous post.
I. IF the Saturn hit Vasi
a) Maura may have been the driver
b) Maura may have been a passenger and witness
II. IF a vehicle hit Vasi, other than the Saturn
a) Maura may have been the driver
b) Maura may have been a passenger and witness
III. Maura may have loaned her Saturn to someone else, and that driver may have hit Vasi without Maura's being present.
Her reaction to each of these different circumstances remains unknown.
If a Vasi hit necessitated moving the Saturn away from Amherst, it is possible she could have been accompanied or followed in another car/truck by a friend/acquaintance, male or female, to do so.
This person may or may not have been directly involved in the Vasi incident.
One, two or more people could have been involved.
That said, a car without an illuminated headlight or with noticeable damage is a cop magnet and at risk for being stopped. I agree with others who may believe the car was not driven from Amherst in this condition.
In building on a Vasi theory, none of this may be true...purely speculative.

Just speculating here myself...

IF Maura permitted someone she knew to take the Saturn late Thursday night, and IF the Saturn hit Vasi AND Maura was not driving or riding in the car at the time, and IF she was informed of the hit that night, not long after it happened, why could the driver rely on Maura not to tell the police what happened?

Personal loyalty to family or friends?

Fear of being physically harmed, by a secret lover or friend, for example?

Fear of the police being told by the actual driver that Maura was driving the Saturn at the time Vasi was hit?

Is it possible that...

if the Saturn hit Vasi while being driven by someone other than Maura (and Maura was not in the car at the time)...

Is it possible Maura feared that if she identified the Saturn's driver to police that the actual driver would then simply turn around and tell the police that it was Maura who was driving the Saturn when Vasi was hit?

Dawn wrote:

Euro - Who is Mr M e.. that is a new one. Who is that? Which neighbor? I thought we had SBD and the West... s

Hello Dawn,

Mr M-e and his wife lived/live in the house next to the junction of Rte 112 and Bradley Hill Road, in between the homes of Mr & Mrs W-n and the SBD but on the opposite side of Rte 112.
For privacy reasons I hesitate to mention the full name of the witness here, but I have seen it mentioned several times on this forum and the ex-MMM board.

What never ceases to surprise me is the lack of interest shown here regarding the witness statement of Mr M-e, which apparently makes it quite clear that the Saturn was deliberately reversed into the snowbank on Rte 112 where it was later found abandoned.
No real accident, but a faked, staged one,according to the witness statement of Mr M-e.
It would then seem likely that the frontal damage to the Saturn must surely have been caused by a previous impact, considering that the Saturn was apparently reversed into the snowbank.

It is true, after all, that UMass has strict rules about students parking their cars near the dorms, even at night. Student cars must be parked in their assigned lots. And, of course, the UMass PD does enforce those parking rules and orders the violating cars towed, especially in winter. So the Saturn would have been parked way the heck over in Lot 12, right? Rules are rules.

Eurobserver wrote:

<quoted text>

It would then seem likely that the frontal damage to the Saturn must surely have been caused by a previous impact, considering that the Saturn was apparently reversed into the snowbank.

Maybe or maybe not damaged by a PREVIOUS impact, but not damaged by the snow, ice, or trees alone.

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>Or maybe she drove west on Rt 9, over the Coolidge Bridge, took a right at the lights, and never made it to King St.
But I agree that a secret lover is a possibility. Maura was obviously a very attractive young woman. Anyone could have fallen in love with her if they spent any time around her at all. Anyone, male or female. And that doesn't mean that Maura was aware of another person's yet unexpressed feelings for her. Which may have turned to rage.

Do I interpret correctly that you suggest she meant to take the 302 direct route to Bartlett and simply made a wrong turn? Very possible. You seem to know the area.

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>
Maura might have been trapped into keeping her mouth shut not out of personal loyalty but out of fear. She may have been told that she would be REPORTED to LE as the driver of the car that hit Vasi by the person who was ACTUALLY driving the car.

Indeed, interesting thought. I must confess, I have yet to be able to figure out who LE is