Where is MAURA MURRAY

The owner surname of the property on Valley Drive was one of the original Mountain Lakes
District proprietors when it was formed approximately 35-40 years ago, and has remained so.
It was rental property between 1/2001 to 7/2004.
The street name and tenant's names have been mentioned in prior postings, either here or
"there".??(one of the many carousel discussions.)

FireCat wrote:

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I just wonder what's relevant with asking this particular detail.
The combination of traumatic head injury and, apparently, quite drunk and stumbling (as he surmises) seems to have wiped his memory utterly clean of events. Nevertheless, it's been helpful to hear his responses.

It's relevant because if you are familiar with the geography of the bars in that part of Amherst, you'll understand the "usefulness" of the cemetery's proximity. I really do not mean any disrespect to Mr. Vasi or to any relatives of the deceased (mostly they are over 200 years old there anyway), but when you're young, these kinds of sensitivities are not always in kept in mind.

If the cemetery were a known stopping point for people on their way back to UMass from a night of downtown drinking, then it might well explain why Mr. Vasi was found across the street from the cemetery at the northwesterly intersection of Mattoon and Triangle.

If, however, Mr. Vasi never knew there was a cemetery there, then the reason he was found at a particular spot along Triangle might be ascribed a different degree of probability - such as he traveled a short distance on the hood of a car before being thrown off.

The wall and two gates of the cemetery are just slightly northwest of the NW intersection of Mattoon and Triangle. I was there a couple of nights ago myself, so unlike most other posters, I can testify to the relevance of the location of the cemetery. And so can the cops I talked with there. Two of them were on bicycles, one having emerged right in front of me from inside the cemetery to respond to the stopping of a motor vehicle on Triangle directly across the street from me. If the cemetery's location is important, then obviously KNOWING it is there is even more important.

If Mr. Vasi had stopped at the cemetery before his having been hit, then it would help explain his direction of travel relative to the direction of the vehicle that hit him. And that would be very important in determining whether or not Fred's/Maura's Saturn hit him, not to mention where the vehicle might have been coming from.

If you were actually standing at the cemetery, acting out the various paths Mr. Vasi may have taken that night, then this question would make a whole lot more sense. That's why asking whether the cemetery might have been used weeks or months before the hit-and-run would amply validate with clear memory the probability of its use that night, and therefore its potential relevance.

Knowing the cemetery was there helps establish whether or not Mr. Vasi might have been there and then exited the cemetery onto Triangle at a particular spot. This helps determine whether his likely direction of travel corresponds to the Saturn's damage.

And please do not forget, I do have a unique stake in this. I lived with a woman who was a BMC ICU nurse, possibly Mr. Vasi's nurse, and possibly charge-nurse that weekend, when Mr. Vasi was admitted and lying in a coma there. When no one knew whether he would live or die. But someone (or two or three) outside his family was obviously very, very interested in knowing his exact condition.

Not to mention that I now have a busted lawn mower. So if there's a connection between Mr. Vasi's hit-and-run and my household, then I'm going to establish it regardless of whether or not any sensibilities are a little offended by the thought of an undergraduate's peeing or puking in a graveyard.

Not mad, but staking my claim if it wasn't entirely clear earlier.

Shack wrote:

The owner surname of the property on Valley Drive was one of the original Mountain Lakes
District proprietors when it was formed approximately 35-40 years ago, and has remained so.
It was rental property between 1/2001 to 7/2004.
The street name and tenant's names have been mentioned in prior postings, either here or
"there".??(one of the many carousel discussions.)

Many thanks.(Gotta love the phrase "carousel discussions.")

Got it, Beagle. You were trying to figure out what he could have been doing near the cemetery. That particular connection was not making itself known in my head.

FireCat wrote:

Got it, Beagle. You were trying to figure out what he could have been doing near the cemetery. That particular connection was not making itself known in my head.

Thanks, sorry, I should have been clearer. Happy 4th.

hi Euro i thought it was reported that mrVasi did not live on campus ,but you could be right and emerson is very close if not next door to kennedy.whats the chances.2 big campus mysteries within a few days of each other and 2 people living that close.Beagle my whole question about the search warrant is why and when it was asked for.it seems that sgtSmith kept E.M.S. away from the saturn .WAS IT THEN A CRIME SCENE.why have it towed to what appears to be an unsecured field and why leave the sticker on it that tells the world you are in school in amherst and is that the student i./d. number on it.Beagle if the car is not secured the search warrant in my opinion would be useless.you say L.E often seeks search warrants what does that mean .anyone here with N.H pd knowledge .if P.D asked for a search warrant to look for drugs or whatever how long would it be valid.how likely is it that if nothing were found the requesting agency would be sued by the person that had there property searched.would a search warrant be normal to remove the contents of an abandoned car.i could see that that may be the case but again why and when did sgtSmith see the saturn as a crime scene.also would judge McKenna be curious as to where the case went if no prosecution followed.anyone have the stats as to how many warrants are issued compared to prosecutions made.when would the warrant application be made public is there a time limit .take care philp

whiston wrote:

hi Euro i thought it was reported that mrVasi did not live on campus ,but you could be right and emerson is very close if not next door to kennedy.whats the chances.2 big campus mysteries within a few days of each other and 2 people living that close.Beagle my whole question about the search warrant is why and when it was asked for.it seems that sgtSmith kept E.M.S. away from the saturn .WAS IT THEN A CRIME SCENE.why have it towed to what appears to be an unsecured field and why leave the sticker on it that tells the world you are in school in amherst and is that the student i./d. number on it.Beagle if the car is not secured the search warrant in my opinion would be useless.you say L.E often seeks search warrants what does that mean .anyone here with N.H pd knowledge .if P.D asked for a search warrant to look for drugs or whatever how long would it be valid.how likely is it that if nothing were found the requesting agency would be sued by the person that had there property searched.would a search warrant be normal to remove the contents of an abandoned car.i could see that that may be the case but again why and when did sgtSmith see the saturn as a crime scene.also would judge McKenna be curious as to where the case went if no prosecution followed.anyone have the stats as to how many warrants are issued compared to prosecutions made.when would the warrant application be made public is there a time limit .take care philp

These questions about the warrant are good ones, and they are very answerable, too. Would it be possible for you to contact an attorney, who will answer them in about 10 minutes for little to no money? Or to drop into your local PD and find a friendly cop in a good mood with a spare moment? Maybe that would be a good contribution to the board for next week. Another good source is a law professor at a local college.

I do know that once the search warrant is effected, and the search completed, there is no longer any reason to keep the vehicle secure unless it was itself part of a crime - for example, if it was used to run someone over. But for contents, no, not necessary to keep the vehicle secured.

Lots of cars are searched, contents confiscated, car towed, but not secured. It's like a search warrant issued against a domicile or a person. They don't keep the house secured until all appeals are exhausted. They go in, perform a search according to the restrictions in the warrant (at least in theory), and leave with what they came for if they find it. They don't place the house off limits. Same with searching a person. If they need a warrant, they empty your pockets and peek where the sun doesn't shine, but they don't confiscate your body simply because it wore the clothes that had the pockets in them. See what I'm saying?

This would be a good opportunity to start balancing out the lopsided ratio of questions to answers. And that's the only way solid progress can be made.

Just found this board and am only on third page, but, can someone tell me what happened to the forum on mauramurraymissing.com ? Can you give a direct link to that?

Hi Curious Sort,

Welcome onboard!
It´s always good to see new people posting here and we look forward to your contributions.

The mauramurraymissing.com site was actually closed some time ago.
It was run by Helena Murray, a relative of Maura´s, whose heavy workload running and administering the site was, I understand, a main reason for its closure.

The site itself is still open. It is only the forum/discussion area that is closed. The main page still links to important information, photos, other links, etc.

Wowzer wrote:

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I don't think anyone's name should be mentioned on a public forum. It can put the named into a dangerous situation.

so as not to actually NAME the owner, this information can be found by going to the town of haverhill's official website and looking at the tax roster. there are actually very few houses on valley so its easy to figure out.

I'm going back to Shack's remarkable and chilling statement about the blood from the closet in the A-frame being "menstrual blood." This is one of the most startling things I've heard about this case (if it IS about Maura's case). My understanding is that there was enough blood that it wasn't just a little stain. It sounds like someone was in that closet for a long time. There is no explanation for that (none that I can imagine, anyway) for that being anything innocent.

There's no reason that we would know about DNA testing, assuming that it's been done. If it had been done and was in any way conclusive, it would be evidence in an ongoing investigation that would more than likely not be released to the public.

The A-frame, less than a mile from where Maura's car was found. The A-frame, within a stone's throw from where Pauline Clark's body was found. I think that I remember from MMM forum that the A-frame was rented in 2/04.

I wonder, though I don't believe that I've ever seen it discussed, if there was an established connection between the knife given to Fred and the A-frame.

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text>
so as not to actually NAME the owner, this information can be found by going to the town of haverhill's official website and looking at the tax roster. there are actually very few houses on valley so its easy to figure out.

Thanks for the info, but at the official Haverhill website I can find only an email request for the 2006 taxes. Is there another heading to look under? Thanks very much for your suggestion.

BeagleBart,

I also noticed that it seems that you now need to send a formal e-mail request in order to be able to view the Town of Haverhill property tax listings.

I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly this information was publicly available without the need for a previous e-mail request when I first joined this forum by mid-June.

I actually find that somewhat strange, but perhaps my memory misleads me here?

sophie bean wrote:

I'm going back to Shack's remarkable and chilling statement about the blood from the closet in the A-frame being "menstrual blood." This is one of the most startling things I've heard about this case (if it IS about Maura's case). My understanding is that there was enough blood that it wasn't just a little stain. It sounds like someone was in that closet for a long time. There is no explanation for that (none that I can imagine, anyway) for that being anything innocent.
There's no reason that we would know about DNA testing, assuming that it's been done. If it had been done and was in any way conclusive, it would be evidence in an ongoing investigation that would more than likely not be released to the public.
The A-frame, less than a mile from where Maura's car was found. The A-frame, within a stone's throw from where Pauline Clark's body was found. I think that I remember from MMM forum that the A-frame was rented in 2/04.
I wonder, though I don't believe that I've ever seen it discussed, if there was an established connection between the knife given to Fred and the A-frame.

I think that someone must know about the testing even though from past posts I thought no one actually knew what happened to the rug pieces after the PI took them.
If no one knows the results of the testing then how do they know it was mentrual blood and not blood from a cut leg etc.? The only way to know this is to know the test results.
I could be wrong though because I only went to the MM site once in a while so I could have missed something about the test results when they were given to the members of that forum.

Eurobserver wrote:

BeagleBart,
I also noticed that it seems that you now need to send a formal e-mail request in order to be able to view the Town of Haverhill property tax listings.
I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly this information was publicly available without the need for a previous e-mail request when I first joined this forum by mid-June.
I actually find that somewhat strange, but perhaps my memory misleads me here?

You're correct--it was posted on the website at one time.

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
I think that someone must know about the testing even though from past posts I thought no one actually knew what happened to the rug pieces after the PI took them.
If no one knows the results of the testing then how do they know it was mentrual blood and not blood from a cut leg etc.? The only way to know this is to know the test results.
I could be wrong though because I only went to the MM site once in a while so I could have missed something about the test results when they were given to the members of that forum.

Shack, can you confirm how you know this? It's the first I've heard of it, too.....and, frankly, menstrual blood doesn't leave a big spot. Sure, it SEEMS like a lot, to get a little graphic, but all in all it's not that much volume. And it seems that you'd have to try very hard to leave a substantial amount there....

I am guessing that enough results of testing are known to tell that it is menstrual blood and not blood from a cut, but that doesn't necessarily mean that DNA testing has been done.

Firecat, I agree if it's a spot - my question was whether someone was in that closet for enough time to leave what sounds like a significant amount of blood. I don't get the impression that this was a spot from clothing or something relatively minor - maybe I misunderstood. If it was just fromm stained clothing, it seems unlikely that it would get into the carpet.

sophie bean wrote:

I am guessing that enough results of testing are known to tell that it is menstrual blood and not blood from a cut, but that doesn't necessarily mean that DNA testing has been done.
Firecat, I agree if it's a spot - my question was whether someone was in that closet for enough time to leave what sounds like a significant amount of blood. I don't get the impression that this was a spot from clothing or something relatively minor - maybe I misunderstood. If it was just fromm stained clothing, it seems unlikely that it would get into the carpet.

I am guessing that any lab that tested it and found that it was blood from a women would have tested it further for DNA since the whole reason for taking the rug was to see if the stains were Maura's. Am I wrong?
It makes absolutely no sense and I think either people are making things up or they are holding back some important info.

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
I am guessing that any lab that tested it and found that it was blood from a women would have tested it further for DNA since the whole reason for taking the rug was to see if the stains were Maura's. Am I wrong?
It makes absolutely no sense and I think either people are making things up or they are holding back some important info.

Excellent point. DNA testing could easily have been done and LE would know whether or not it was Maura's blood.