Where is MAURA MURRAY

Eurobserver wrote:

Hello all,
I don´t seem able to stop thinking about that first "mystery" accident which may well have involved Maura´s Saturn a short while before it ended up at the Weather Barn curve in Swiftwater.
Could Maura (if she was the driver of the Saturn) have had some kind of accident on either the 302/10 between Woodsville and the 112 turn-off or alternatively on the 112 between the 302/10 junction and Swiftwater village?
Is it possible that she ran into a guardrail somewhere or somehow ended up in a ditch or whatever, and that the major damage to the Saturn´s front could have happened then?
Unable to continue, she somehow succeeds in calling a towing-truck, although there seems to be no AAA logs of any incidents in the whole of Grafton County for this.
If you have a peek at the yellow pages directory for Haverhill on the web, you will notice that there is a towing firm (apparently taking AAA calls) located on the rte 302 just a mile or half a mile north of the rte 302/rte 112 junction, some 4-5 miles north of Woodsville.
Just an observation, which may not mean anything.
Still...

Not at all out of the question.

Several years ago in Newtown, CT I broke down on the side of a secondary road I had taken as a short cut. Before I could call AAA, a local tow truck came by. I waved him over. He was polite, but said sorry, it's against the rules to pick up a car on the side of the road without having been called first. Nonetheless, after talking for a couple of minutes, he towed my vehicle back to the garage, where they were super nice AND mechanically talented, and I was on my way in a very short time.

So, yes, this is certainly very, very possible.

BeagleBart wrote:

Brother to Dale.

others thought this comment was weird. i had a different reaction: which dale?

Eurobserver wrote:

Hello all,
I don´t seem able to stop thinking about that first "mystery" accident which may well have involved Maura´s Saturn a short while before it ended up at the Weather Barn curve in Swiftwater.
Could Maura (if she was the driver of the Saturn) have had some kind of accident on either the 302/10 between Woodsville and the 112 turn-off or alternatively on the 112 between the 302/10 junction and Swiftwater village?
Is it possible that she ran into a guardrail somewhere or somehow ended up in a ditch or whatever, and that the major damage to the Saturn´s front could have happened then?
Unable to continue, she somehow succeeds in calling a towing-truck, although there seems to be no AAA logs of any incidents in the whole of Grafton County for this.
If you have a peek at the yellow pages directory for Haverhill on the web, you will notice that there is a towing firm (apparently taking AAA calls) located on the rte 302 just a mile or half a mile north of the rte 302/rte 112 junction, some 4-5 miles north of Woodsville.
Just an observation, which may not mean anything.
Still...

There is little doubt she could have had the previous accident. Their was an accident call heard on the scanner at 7pm. If that was Maura that accident could have caused the front end damage. Being scared/drinking she then pushed the car even harder running from that accident only to have a second accident at the barn but this one she could not recover from. This idea has been proposed before.

Bill

Shack wrote:

I've read about Liko Kenny. I think this is a good example of harrassment from police and questionable charactors. I realize that Mr. Liko may have stood out, but he did nothing to seal his fate in all accounts/visuals that I've seen. He was afraid, he was killed and it seems as though he will remain at fault in his own death until something changes.

********
since you mention liko kenney here, on maura murray's thread and in the context of LE harassment, indeed, i believe there is merit in demanding accountability and professional treatment from LE.

i take exception to your specific statement: "I realize that Mr. Liko may have stood out, but he did nothing to seal his fate in all accounts/visuals that I've seen."

in fact, liko kenney obviously sealed his fate by shooting officer mckay; and he is responsible for that action, whether he lived or died.

the administration of what is just by law is not based on sentiment and sympathy.

OK, I would like to point out - realizing that I'm encouraging the benavior by noting it - the clear attempt to disrupt, divert, and distract posed by
"Tetra Tech!!!" (then attacking FireCat for asking what was meant) and "brother to Dale."
Meaningless statements, completely irrelevant to discussion, and when questioned, resulting in 3-page rants.

"SnowyWhite" - I have to agree with you the Liko Kenney, for all that he felt threatened (and likely WAS threatened) bore some responsibility for the horrible outcome of that day. Clearly, in a power-over, power-under situation as with McKay/Kenney, the person with more power bears more reposibility. McKay had the power to make the outcome entirely different and peaceable. When he acted to harass, intimidate and threaten Kenney and his passenger, he too set events in motion which at the point became almost unavoidable. All three persons bear responsibility. Floyd, for sure, was just looking for someone to shoot.

What does this have to do with Maura?
I don't know.
There's clearly a number of "elements" in the Franconia area that don't get along. Plenty of people obviously, and with good reason, fear and distrust LE at all levels. There are a lot of "free spirits" like Kenney, apparently, who wouldn't like LE and "the Establishment" in any case. There are way too many registered and not? sex offenders in the immediate area. There are locals who clearly don't like and distrust anyone "from away," and if anyone should wax indignant about that, please tell me why "Take Back NH!" signs would not be as likely in NH as "Take Back Vermont" signs have been in VT. It is, after all, the Libertarian state, suggesting a significantly insular mindset.

I understand relutance to accept unsolved murders and disappearances - it's scary stuff. I don't understand the fact that such a huge number of these cases have taken place in a small geographic area with a relatively small population, and no one locally seems especially concerned about solving them. I don't see ANY outcry in NH or VT for that matter to solve these cases.

Sorry, things have changed so fast I can't answer. Best that way, at least for now. There are clear solutions somewhere, though.

hi all, how did Maura get the Salamones phone number.American Skiing Company owned Attitash at the time.did Maura recieve a bulk mailing.was she on an email list.A.S.C also owned resorts in V.T. at the time.did the Salamones advertise independtly for there condo in N.H.What other groups were meeting at attitash in Bartlett at the time.any groups from Amherst or west point up there then.i called the Salamones number that was posted here and was told i need to call the police department dealing with the case.what a surprise! take care philip

sophie bean wrote:

I understand relutance to accept unsolved murders and disappearances - it's scary stuff. I don't understand the fact that such a huge number of these cases have taken place in a small geographic area with a relatively small population, and no one locally seems especially concerned about solving them. I don't see ANY outcry in NH or VT for that matter to solve these cases.

This may surprise, or even disappoint, but I whole-heartedly, and sadly must, endorse this statement. 110 percent. This is a truly serious issue, and, as Sophie rightly points out, a very scary one, too. If it's being ignored, which it is, then why?

(Now back to my usual diversionary tactics.)

whiston wrote:

hi all, how did Maura get the Salamones phone number.American Skiing Company owned Attitash at the time.did Maura recieve a bulk mailing.was she on an email list.A.S.C also owned resorts in V.T. at the time.did the Salamones advertise independtly for there condo in N.H.What other groups were meeting at attitash in Bartlett at the time.any groups from Amherst or west point up there then.i called the Salamones number that was posted here and was told i need to call the police department dealing with the case.what a surprise! take care philip

Whiston, great questions and interesting reply by Salamone. Not a trick or loaded question here, but why do you think it a surprise that you were told to call the police department? Merely curious. Thanks.

Quija wrote:

<quoted text>
others thought this comment was weird. i had a different reaction: which dale?

Oh good, at least this made sense to someone. I thought it was extremely weird at first, and then in light of "was his mother Violet" it made quite a bit more possible sense. Potentially maybe. Or at the very least, put it into a context I could understand, even if I still don't know who/what Alden's talking about. Fortunately Quija seems to.

Unless you're talking about the chipmunk. Then I'm totally lost.

BeagleBart wrote:

<quoted text>Whiston, great questions and interesting reply by Salamone. Not a trick or loaded question here, but why do you think it a surprise that you were told to call the police department? Merely curious. Thanks.

I believe Mr. Whiston was being facetious. ;-) Not to worry.

Accident heard but never comfirmed by
any documents released nor comfirmed
by anyone else hearing it.
Am I the only person who finds this odd?

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
There is little doubt she could have had the previous accident. Their was an accident call heard on the scanner at 7pm. If that was Maura that accident could have caused the front end damage. Being scared/drinking she then pushed the car even harder running from that accident only to have a second accident at the barn but this one she could not recover from. This idea has been proposed before.
Bill

hi Beagle and all.yes i was being frustrated again.i just want to know where the Salamones advertised their condo and how Maura got their number in the first place.also what groups were meeting at the attitash resort at the time.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh good, at least this made sense to someone. I thought it was extremely weird at first, and then in light of "was his mother Violet" it made quite a bit more possible sense. Potentially maybe. Or at the very least, put it into a context I could understand, even if I still don't know who/what Alden's talking about. Fortunately Quija seems to.
Unless you're talking about the chipmunk. Then I'm totally lost.

no, firecat, nothing really makes sense to me anymore. don't get your hopes up! haha! I hadn't considered that "Dale" might have been "Violet"'s husband and co-owner (deceased?) of property in NH or MA in the past. I wasn't able to find deeds to property in Randolph, MA anyway, unfortunately. A few counties in MA make it harder to get property info online. Maybe someone else will have more luck.(Can't remember why this was even important at this point!)

also, we DO NOT talk about chipmunks in this household because they move into our cars and make homes in the heater blowers and smell terrible (what DO those guys eat, anyway!), gnaw on the wires, leave so many acorn husks that it sound like thunder when i open the hood. DISCLAIMER: I am NOT SAYING that they are not wonderful creatures of God.

Before you all label this spam, nuts, etc., as I've said before I believe the "earlier accident" was in an original police report and that was the part that was cut and pasted and if I can find my early copy of it I'll reaffirm that there was practically AN ENTIRE PAGE replaced with cut-and-pasted odds and ends and duplications from another page.

sophie bean wrote:

"SnowyWhite" - I have to agree with you the Liko Kenney, for all that he felt threatened (and likely WAS threatened) bore some responsibility for the horrible outcome of that day. Clearly, in a power-over, power-under situation as with McKay/Kenney, the person with more power bears more reposibility. McKay had the power to make the outcome entirely different and peaceable. When he acted to harass, intimidate and threaten Kenney and his passenger, he too set events in motion which at the point became almost unavoidable. All three persons bear responsibility. Floyd, for sure, was just looking for someone to shoot.
What does this have to do with Maura?
I don't know.
There's clearly a number of "elements" in the Franconia area that don't get along. Plenty of people obviously, and with good reason, fear and distrust LE at all levels. There are a lot of "free spirits" like Kenney, apparently, who wouldn't like LE and "the Establishment" in any case.

********
Sophie,

i agree, and thank you for expanding on my reply as quoted above.

without belaboring points too long, i hope, i'll also add confirmation to your quote: "There are locals who clearly don't like and distrust anyone "from away," and if anyone should wax indignant about that, please tell me why "Take Back NH!" signs would not be as likely in NH as "Take Back Vermont" signs have been in VT."

caring about these tragedies in northern NH has been something of an exercise in futility for me, in part, due to the culture of privacy and the profound silence of folks who may find 'intruders' unwelcome; this, in addition to considering the burgeoning time component involved.

while efforts here and elsewhere may sometimes be ineffective or circular in attempting to bring about something tangible, i can only watch/wait/observe (a concept borrowed...now often repeated).

when the colorful/bizarre, interesting/dull, abrasive/polished, warm/cold, healthier/less healthy, self-directed/other-directed personalities and characters are sorted, i am left to observe a fascinating slice of humanity...not at the expense of any who suffered, but as a result of their suffering.

much to consider...to weigh...to challenge...to repair...and to resolve. i appreciate this opportunity.

Quija wrote:

<quoted text> DISCLAIMER: I am NOT SAYING that they are not wonderful creatures of God.

They are nothing more than mice with a fancier paint job.

B

White Wash,

Interesting comment of yours there (# 2856).
I have on several occasions pointed out this seeming anomaly on this board. I absolutely agree with your observations.

Considering that there most likely occurred a previous "mystery" accident in the neighbourhood of Swiftwater, very possibly involving Maura´s Saturn, at about 7 pm on February 9th 2004, it is indeed HIGHLY STRANGE (and this really warrants capital letters!) that such an accident, to my knowledge, has never been officially confirmed and/or observed by other witnesses, passing by in their cars or living nearby such an incident.

Why on earth is there such a seeming "blackout" considering such an accident?
You don´t have to be equipped with a particularly conspiratoral mindset in order to see some red flags here...

I´m inclined to believe that a local towing-truck could have been passing by the first likely accident scene of the Saturn and then somehow came to the assistance of Maura (or whoever may have been driving the car).
As Beagle pointed out above such a scenario may never have been logged by the AAA.
If this is what in fact happened, the question remains why the driver of such a potential towing-truck has kept quiet.
Such a theoretical driver may have done nothing wrong as such, but could possibly fear having done something not entirely by the official rule book.
Being one of the last persons to actually see Maura (if we presume that the Saturn´s driver was Maura)may also have contributed to someone not wanting to get involved here.

Just a thought...

whiston wrote:

hi Beagle and all.yes i was being frustrated again.i just want to know where the Salamones advertised their condo and how Maura got their number in the first place.also what groups were meeting at the attitash resort at the time.

Whiston, I understand and appreciate your expression of frustration. That's fine. Regardless, I would still like to get your take on why you were referred to the police. Whether it was a big surprise or no surprise, whether your were being facetious or not, why do you think Salamone referred you to the police? Did he give any indication why he said that? Thanks.

sophie bean wrote:

"SnowyWhite" - I have to agree with you the Liko Kenney, for all that he felt threatened (and likely WAS threatened) bore some responsibility for the horrible outcome of that day. Clearly, in a power-over, power-under situation as with McKay/Kenney, the person with more power bears more reposibility. McKay had the power to make the outcome entirely different and peaceable. When he acted to harass, intimidate and threaten Kenney and his passenger, he too set events in motion which at the point became almost unavoidable. All three persons bear responsibility. Floyd, for sure, was just looking for someone to shoot.

Yep, the modern touchy, feely world that we now live in. If he perceives he is being threatened he must have been threatened. Perception doesn’t make reality. If he was delusional or paranoid mommy and daddy should have gotten him help. This could have been avoided in its entirety by Liko simply stopping and obeying the police officer who was discharging his sworn duty. At each step the violence that was applied by the officer was a small ratcheting up as they are taught to do. First was verbal, then Liko drives away. Twice again he tries to stop the car eventually bumping Likos car to prevent it from leaving again. With no audio we don’t know if Liko might have been racing his engine signaling that he was going to try to run again. Don’t forget he clearly has proven he would do that based upon past behaviour. The officer tries to stop the threat simply by using non lethal means, mace or pepper spray. Likos response is to shoot him, as he is walking away clearly McKay is not a threat to anyone at that point. Liko shoot him probably at least some of the rounds are in the back of the officer as he is moving away. Then off camera Liko drives over the officer. Floyd may be a useless piece of crap, I don’t know the man, but clearly in this instance his actions were justified both in protecting his own life, ordering Liko to stay there and requiring him to comply with that order. ALl would be justified in just about any state in the country. Most states allow reasonable force to make him comply with that order. Liko was armed and obviously willing to use the weapon. He was clearly a threat to anyone else he came across at that point. Likos action again caused his own death by not dropping the gun when ordered to do so. The “threat” was gone, McKay was dead. I would have shot him also if he didn’t comply and kept trying to reload or clear his weapon. Floyds actions were clearly justified on several levels.

I also believe that anyone “looking for someone to shoot” would go out with a gun on them. Not just hope the situation provides one on the ground. Floyd put himself at considerable risk to help that officer. You really need to imagine what it would take to walk into an area where you just saw an officer shot down and run over, leaving the safety of your vehicle and go the officers side to try to help him from doing more damage by picking up a weapon that you may be unfamiliar with and attempt to make him stop doing that he is doing. Floyd may be a lot of things, he may be a lot of bad things but he stood up when it counted. That in no way exonerates him from any of the other things that he may have done but he did nothing wrong and a lot of things right in this instance.

Also many people have permits to carry concealed weapons. The last thing any of them wants to do is shoot someone.

Bill

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
They are nothing more than mice with a fancier paint job.
B

I know. I found a beautiful chipmunk tail in perfect condition and had to wonder how many critters would be needed to make a coat. So much for "all of God's creatures". Sorry.

CORRECTION: I do not know for a fact that the information removed on the Sheriff's log was the "first accident", but I remember the time/sequence of that (missing) log seemed to match and make it A POSSIBILITY only.