Where is MAURA MURRAY

Anyone know the date and place, for sure, that the Saturn was first started, presumably with a key, after it was towed from the Rt. 112 crash scene?

Is this the same time referred to as the time the Saturn was "started right up" by Fred and Billy?

I don’t believe D & L Salamone have any connection to Maura’s disappearance, but I looked into this angle at one point in the past. There is a woman Constantina (“C.”) from Brooklyn, NY with the same surname that (possibly) resides in Woodsville on Ammonoosuc Street in downtown Woodsville. Of course, having the same surname doesn’t mean she’s at all related to D & L or even knows them. I say ‘possibly resides’ there because “C.” could only use it as a second home away from NY, as her mother owned the home until she passed away in 2002. There’s also a man, Lawrence, which is listed at the same residence whom I assume is “C.’s” older brother.

At one time I thought that perhaps Maura, attempting to make a second attempt to find lodging, could’ve stopped at a payphone and made a 411 call to find an address or phone number for a “Salamone” in the Haverhill region and was given the Woodsville information. I didn’t flesh out the scenario any further. So, Philip, if D & L ever call you back (but I doubt they will) you may want to ask them if they have a relative named Constantina. BTW, I don’t blame them for directing inquiries to LE. In my opinion, it can be unsettling to have strangers making inquiries, no matter how seemingly innocuous or good willed.
And especially if there is a connection to a possible major crime.

BeagleBart wrote:

<quoted text>I have to hand it to you, you are too funny! Seriously.
I'll have to think about this during intermission and get back to you. Great questions, though.

Thanks, although I wasn't ACTUALLY trying to be funny that time.(sometimes I guess it happens unintentionally, like my crankiness.)

Wait, there's an intermission? Who brought the Jiffy Pop?

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks, although I wasn't ACTUALLY trying to be funny that time.(sometimes I guess it happens unintentionally, like my crankiness.)
Wait, there's an intermission? Who brought the Jiffy Pop?

I suppose you'll want to recycle the tin foil? About the right size, I think.

I wonder if Maura locked the car and left it running, didn't someone say the ignition was on. Then whomever towed it put the rag in to stall it.

1Anne wrote:

I wonder if Maura locked the car and left it running, didn't someone say the ignition was on. Then whomever towed it put the rag in to stall it.

All tow truck drivers have a tool that allows them access to the vehicle's interior, so no need to plug the tailpipe.

Every one to four weeks, a truck full of antiques leaves Sherbrooke, QC bound for Gaspe, QC. None of the antiques are "real" antiques, at least not in the sense that they are very old or valuable. Almost all of these antiques were previously purchased at an auction in northern Vermont. The truck arrives in Gaspe where it drops off the antiques, which are placed for sale in a shop on a commission basis. The truck then returns to Sherbrooke with what has not sold from previous deliveries. The round trip takes four days.

However, almost none of these antiques actually sell. They are driven from Sherbrooke to Gaspe, only to return to Sherbrooke again. A few of the antiques delivered to the Gaspe shop make a further short trip to a small woodworking shop, where they are slightly altered and then returned to the antique shop in Gaspe for expert finishing work to conceal the alterations before they are returned to Sherbrooke.

This is just a fact of life in the antiques business, especially along the Canadian border and along I-91. There is a dark underside to both the art and antiques businesses that most people would never guess existed. I'm not saying Maura was caught up in this underworld, but I sure would not count it out, either.

Sorry, round trip Sherbrooke to Gaspe in truck takes 2-4 days. Total work time equals about 4 days. For hardly any sales.

BeagleBart wrote:

<quoted text>All tow truck drivers have a tool that allows them access to the vehicle's interior, so no need to plug the tailpipe.

thanks Beagle. I was thinking just a regular truck stopped to pull her vehicle away from guard rails after she went to a house to call and they found it necessary to stall the engine with the rag. Not possible?

1Anne wrote:

<quoted text>thanks Beagle. I was thinking just a regular truck stopped to pull her vehicle away from guard rails after she went to a house to call and they found it necessary to stall the engine with the rag. Not possible?

Sure, very possible. I assume you mean that this guard rail crash scene was at least a couple hundred feet from the Rt 112 "official" crash scene?

If the tailpipe was plugged at a theoretical guard rail crash scene, then the Saturn still must have been towed, or pushed, to the Rt. 112 "official" crash scene near the Weathered Barn. Otherwise, the rag would have been blown out by the engine's exhaust gas. Unless the exhaust system had a big leak somewhere. Which, actually, is a possibility, I suppose.

The main point is that if the rag was placed in the tailpipe at some location other than the "official" crash scene near the Weathered Barn, then most likely the Saturn was towed to this "official" crash scene. In any event, the car didn't get to the Weathered Barn site by itself and still have the rag in the tailpipe.

I hope I understood your question correctly. Thanks.

Hi all,

According to all reports Maura´s Saturn was found locked at the Weathered Barn curve when Sergeant CS arrived at the car.

If Maura (or whoever was driving the Saturn) actually locked the car before "vanishing", then she must obviously have used the keys to lock the Saturn from outside.

It would then seem most likely that the Saturn must have been started with a duplicate/spare key after it having been towed away from Swiftwater by Lavoie´s of Haverhill.

Any references to this anywhere???

Thanks!

Just a thought:

If the Saturn was towed from the first likely accident scene (which seems the most probable scenario), then how does the young lady driver (Maura herself or a Maura look-alike) fit in?

Surely the lady driver couldn´t possibly have remained in the Saturn while it was being towed from wherever in the nearby Swiftwater/Woodsville area, even for quite a short distance. That, I´d find highly unlikely.

How come then that the schoolbus driver (Mr A.) actually purports to have seen and spoken with a young lady driver of the Saturn at the Weathered Barn???
If Maura (or a look-alike) had been travelling in the cab of a theoretical towing-truck from the scene of the first "mystery" accident to where the Saturn was found at the Weathered Barn - then why on earth would she be found sitting at the wheel of the Saturn according to the SBD?
True, she might have needed to get a few of her things from the Saturn before being driven away in the towing-truck or other vehicle, but if we are to believe the SBD she was found behind the wheel in driver´s seat, having difficulty opening the driver´s door because of the snow banks by the door. What would she possibly be doing there in the circumstances?

Just a wild idea:
Is it at all possible that the SBD in fact never saw or spoke with Maura or a Maura look-alike at the Saturn, simply because the Saturn was in fact found empty by the Weathered Barn Curve?

After all, as far as I understand we only have the SBD´s word for this. Nobody else actually reported seeing a young lady driver of the Saturn.

Mr & Mrs W. in their house across the "accident" scene reported seeing movements by a person/persons in/by the Saturn, but all this is very vague.

So, my conclusion is:

What if neither Maura (nor a Maura look-alike) was ever found/spoken to by the SBD at the Saturn?

Possible???

Eurobserver wrote:

Hi all,
According to all reports Maura´s Saturn was found locked at the Weathered Barn curve when Sergeant CS arrived at the car.
If Maura (or whoever was driving the Saturn) actually locked the car before "vanishing", then she must obviously have used the keys to lock the Saturn from outside.

Not necessarily true. Remember, she'd locked her keys in the car once before--although my failing memory may be that she locked them in the trunk?

I know they've tried to make it much harder these days, with automatic locks, but with older model cars it was DEFINITELY possible to lock your keys in the car. I did it with a 1990 Ford Tempo once. Could it be done with a 1996 Saturn? Anyone want to go lock themselves out of their car for the sake of scientific inquiry??

Eurobserver wrote:

If Maura (or whoever was driving the Saturn) actually locked the car before "vanishing", then she must obviously have used the keys to lock the Saturn from outside.

Unless Saturns are totally different than most other cars the keys are not needed to lock the car. Very few cars require the keys to lock the car.

B

Eurobserver wrote:

Hi all,
According to all reports Maura´s Saturn was found locked at the Weathered Barn curve when Sergeant CS arrived at the car.
If Maura (or whoever was driving the Saturn) actually locked the car before "vanishing", then she must obviously have used the keys to lock the Saturn from outside.
It would then seem most likely that the Saturn must have been started with a duplicate/spare key after it having been towed away from Swiftwater by Lavoie´s of Haverhill.
Any references to this anywhere???
Thanks!

Good point. I had assumed that the driver could leave the engine running, exit the vehicle, and then press down the lock button and close the door. Maybe that's too old-fashioned for even a 1996 Saturn.

I did ask a young man whose 1997 Saturn I watched getting towed away by his father recently whether or not he could exit his car and lock the doors, even with the keys in the "on" position in the ignition switch and leave the engine running, and he said, yes, it could be done.

Best thing to do is locate a 1996 Saturn and find out. Too bad we couldn't pool some money and find one for cheap. There's one on You Tube that frat boys are sledge-hammering as a fund raiser.

I'll bet it's not impossible to find a Saturn for sale that's running on 3 cylinders and sort of try to re-enact what might have happened. Fantasy, but why not dream a little, right?

BeagleBart wrote:

<quoted text>
Sure, very possible. I assume you mean that this guard rail crash scene was at least a couple hundred feet from the Rt 112 "official" crash scene?
If the tailpipe was plugged at a theoretical guard rail crash scene, then the Saturn still must have been towed, or pushed, to the Rt. 112 "official" crash scene near the Weathered Barn. Otherwise, the rag would have been blown out by the engine's exhaust gas. Unless the exhaust system had a big leak somewhere. Which, actually, is a possibility, I suppose.
The main point is that if the rag was placed in the tailpipe at some location other than the "official" crash scene near the Weathered Barn, then most likely the Saturn was towed to this "official" crash scene. In any event, the car didn't get to the Weathered Barn site by itself and still have the rag in the tailpipe.
I hope I understood your question correctly. Thanks.

Exactly Beagle, I think a non official towing took place and they dropped it on the corner..maybe this is all 'dust in the storm'? I have always tried to 'play' that long scanner night over and over in my head. It probably was not all official responses and just had added chatter.

Hello again,

I must admit to a total ignorance as for the locking mechanisms applying to a Saturn 1996.
The Saturn cars were never sold here in Sweden, and although I´ve got a passionate interest in cars and know that the Saturn were/are manufactured by GM I´ve got no information whatsoever as for the locking of the doors.
Perhaps it´s even possible to lock the doors of a Saturn 1996 by remote control?
Hopefully we may have some Saturn specialists here onboard?

Also, please consider my latest post (#2896) carefully - would such a scenario be possible?
If yes, it might change the way we have to look at the Weathered Barn "accident"...
Thanks!

hi all when mrMurray started the saturn i thnk he was with Billy.Helena told me that mrMurray had a spare key with him.it has also been reported that there was a spare key stored on the car in a magnetic box.take care philip

hi all, i should say i have never spoken with Helena,i think she posted it on the last forum.Beagle when i called the Salamones i spoke with a live person.i can't blame her for her response.Euro, rt112 is a very quiet dark country road with very few occupied homes once you get east of the weathered barn.i think someone mentioned early on that the crack in the windshield had grown over time maybe from the weather getting warmer.there were empty light bulb boxes found in the car.when mrMurray arrived in N.H. he was not allowed to see the car right away.anyone remember when he was allowed to see the car .could you post here.take care philip

whiston wrote:

hi all, i should say i have never spoken with Helena,i think she posted it on the last forum.Beagle when i called the Salamones i spoke with a live person.i can't blame her for her response.Euro, rt112 is a very quiet dark country road with very few occupied homes once you get east of the weathered barn.i think someone mentioned early on that the crack in the windshield had grown over time maybe from the weather getting warmer.there were empty light bulb boxes found in the car.when mrMurray arrived in N.H. he was not allowed to see the car right away.anyone remember when he was allowed to see the car .could you post here.take care philip

No, I don't blame her for telling you to call LE. Did she indicate that calling LE was her/their idea or were the Salamones REQUESTED by LE to have inquiries referred to them (LE)? Big difference. Thanks.