Where is MAURA MURRAY

chickadee wrote:

<quoted text>
I've been reading some of these threads and I totally agree with JMO. As an outsider some words jump out at me.Fantasy, unbalanced, irrational, and wild speculation are just a few.
I lurked some on the MMM forum before it closed but this Topix forum is a public forum although some of the MMM people are trying to make it into the closed site imo.
While the fantasy goes on and the drama continues the paranoid illusions of a few will keep this mystery from ending. I've seen a couple of people actually from the area and willing to help chased off this thread. And to have people jumped on because their idea might hurt a family member is turning this open and public forum into a closed "family/friend" controlled private forum.
But wait! The immediate family has never posted here and since they have never once replied (that I know of) in either the MMM forum or this one then how possibly do we know if they even bother to watch this. I have to wonder why words must be watched and new ideas are dashed to the ground. Wake up people if you really want to have a chance of finding Maura.
This is quickly becoming a scary fiction..... entertaining but you know it's not real.
OK now you can jump on me but I don't chase off easily.

scary 'fictional' and 'entertaining'- factors that inevitably predict a poor outcome.

to elaborate...as an observer here, and an active forum participant elsewhere, i've become aware of the relationships that can be formed/broken online, the faulty/fictional premises that begin to take on a life of their own when repeated over and over again, and the fact that compulsivity can be a component of commenting for the sake of comment alone.

indeed, this thread appears to have some of these features...and might be becoming a closed microcosm that no longer takes into consideration or is representative of the public view.

from my direct and observational experience, a group mindset can develop...and it can become quite dangerous if the focus becomes unfairly directed at a particular individual or group of individuals...as in....lynch mob? stalking?

some of the theories espoused here seem preposterous by any standard. it seems counter-productive to tap into such obscure (ummm - ridiculous?!) and unlikely lines of reasoning.

ultimately, factions develop around personalities, and they become more rather than less opposing.

i don't have a dog in this fight, but as chickadee says, some of the ideas here are beginning to seep into other threads, as well.

it's all rather fascinating.

Wow everyone, thanks for the kind and very logical words. Advocator, you have a great mind and got me thinking outside of the box as Weeper would say. Quija, awsome post too. I just might steal it and use it myself (wink).

Shack, I remember everything about everyone I'ved met on both Brianna's and Maura's forum. My memory is like an iron trap,it's both my blessing and my bane.

However, Maura's is not the only name that I've thought of each morning the past four years.

What's worse is that there seems to be new names of cold cases added each day. Sophie understands, The Missing & Remembered. It was the backdrop of Maura's forum and site. Maura's cause so to speak.

I'd sincerely like to focus my one hour of morning laptop time on all of the Missing & Remembered throughout New England.

Farewell & God Bless

http://nhunsolved.blogspot.com/2005/12/nhvtme...

Quija wrote:

Superficial, undeveloped thoughts about "agendas":
Posters here are often accused of having agendas. Like others have posted, this forum, as a free-thinking group could accomplish a lot. Who has an agenda?
someone wanting to just throw a wrench into the works for malicious enjoyment...
someone with involvement who wants to distract investors from him- or herself...
someone who just wants to inflict pain and not present ideas...
investigators who want to provoke us to test out posters for their reactions...
people who want to avoid anything that might reflect even a little bit negatively on Maura...
We have very few facts here. That explains the volume of scenarios tossed out.
There aren't that many posters who espouse one single point of view. I've seen most people cycle through the possibilities of foul play in NH, stalking in Amherst, Maura being depressed, Maura wanting to run away, Maura seeing something she shouldn't have, etc.
I worry about the stability of posters who need to personally attack for an idea that's been expressed. Those posters might be just a bit too involved, too invested in one possibility. The goal is resolution and a good model for a forum is a classic think-tank. I might go read up on how those function ---

You forgot one group on that list, Quija, and that is

people who want to avoid anything that might reflect negatively on NH and/or LE

Just My Opinion wrote:

indeed, this thread appears to have some of these features...and might be becoming a closed microcosm that no longer takes into consideration or is representative of the public view.

One of the biggest problems with Maura's case is that for a long time, there simply WAS no public view. Wasn't it you, Shack, who heard "oh, I heard they solved that" or "oh I heard they found her" several times in enquiring?

Another difficulty was that the public view was (at times intentionally) skewed. LE misrepresented themselves, sometimes seemingly accidentally, sometimes almost certainly on purpose. The same is true of media accounts of her case. As recently as last summer Fred was egregiously either misquoted or misunderstood (at best) in the Union Leader. That's one of the reasons Maura's web sites have existed.

Just My Opinion wrote:

<quoted text>indeed, this thread appears to have some of these features...and might be becoming a closed microcosm that no longer takes into consideration or is representative of the public view.

...no longer representative of the public view??? What public view??? Most people in the Pioneer Valley don't even recognize, only four years later, the name Maura Murray. I know we're not pulling off a professional Madison Avenue style publicity campaign here, but without the little amateurish effort that does exist, total obscurity would follow.

Hello there - Some attention, please...

Many interesting posts here, particularly so Quija´s posting # 3126!
Now, did anyone actually notice my most recent post regarding the cabin just south of Bethlehem in the White Mountains of New Hampshire, which is owned by the University of Massachusetts Outing Club (UMOC)and described on the website of the UMOC.
Apparently this cabin is located in the wilderness off NH Route 142 between Franconia and Bethlehem. One of several possible and likely routes from Amherst to this cabin is via Rte 112 from Woodsville,NH, past the Weathered Barn in Swiftwater and further east to Benton. From there the most natural route would be NH 116 via Easton to Franconia and then the NH 142 towards Bethlehem.
Could this UMOC cabin possibly have been Maura´s destination?

Just My Opinion wrote:

<quoted text>...and it can become quite dangerous if the focus becomes unfairly directed at a particular individual or group of individuals...as in....lynch mob? stalking?

Stalking??? Frankly, I could use the company sometimes.

Seriously... Do you think there is a poster on this forum who is stalking another poster?

Do you know stalking to have occurred as a result of posting in a forum in which you participated?

How likely is stalking to occur, in your mind, from what you have read here? Why?

Eurobserver wrote:

Hello there - Some attention, please...
Many interesting posts here, particularly so Quija´s posting # 3126!
Now, did anyone actually notice my most recent post regarding the cabin just south of Bethlehem in the White Mountains of New Hampshire, which is owned by the University of Massachusetts Outing Club (UMOC)and described on the website of the UMOC.
Apparently this cabin is located in the wilderness off NH Route 142 between Franconia and Bethlehem. One of several possible and likely routes from Amherst to this cabin is via Rte 112 from Woodsville,NH, past the Weathered Barn in Swiftwater and further east to Benton. From there the most natural route would be NH 116 via Easton to Franconia and then the NH 142 towards Bethlehem.
Could this UMOC cabin possibly have been Maura´s destination?

Is there any indication that Maura brought along a sleeping bag? Because it didn't sound like the cabin had a lot of baseboard heat. Of if she's thinking along more despondent lines, then a sleeping bag wouldn't be necessary? But a backpack would? The cabin is an intersting idea, but which one of the resorts you mentioned earlier did you find most interesting?

Just My Opinion wrote:

<quoted text>...some of the theories espoused here seem preposterous by any standard.

Which ones?

Just My Opinion wrote:

<quoted text>... ultimately, factions develop around personalities, and they become more rather than less opposing.

Meaning what? Which personalities? Some examples, please? Any predictions?

chickadee wrote:

<quoted text>While the fantasy goes on and the drama continues the paranoid illusions of a few will keep this mystery from ending.

What paranoid illusions [sic]?

Shack wrote:

Also, gonna leave the "before Maura left" up to the chap with the delightful accent....TaTa....

Indeed!

And thanks for the further detail about running a Saturn locally. Good info and observation.

But "tata?" What happened to Pffffttt, or however it's correctly spelled? I thought a Pfffft! was certainly in order then.

:-)

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
You forgot one group on that list, Quija, and that is
people who want to avoid anything that might reflect negatively on NH and/or LE

Yes! I forgot that --- it was just a "working, developing list"!!! Definitely add that!

Also, I left out something I was accused of (uh, I mean, "identified as a possible person who..."): looking for attention, PERIOD.

And also those who are seeking fame, or trying to inflate their egos by "knowing secrets" --- probably under the category of "being special" and "looking for attention".

Let's keep the list going and own up to what our own motives are.... usually a complex combination headed by wanting resolution... People here for narcissistic motives may not stay for the long haul. Thanks.

Seagull Smart --- I think I "got" it about ron and brother and dale stuff you said. You caught me! My fault for throwing caution to the wind. Don't get the tetra stuff yet, tho.

Aha! Beagle! That's a different Ron. The one you're looking for is retired, not a ...hedron. He's about 72 years old and extremely cool.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

Wow everyone, thanks for the kind and very logical words. Quija, awsome post too. I just might steal it and use it myself (wink).

Please, elsewhere, help yourself!(winkin' back) I mean, I stole it myself! And I'm looking for more stuff since I don't know much about group problem solving...(I hated the part about it being OK to "get personal". That was a disappointment since I've railed against it, but what the heck?)

Hej Beagle!

Thanks for your comments.

I´m still going through the posted list of cabins available for winter hire, mainly in the Lincoln/N Woodstock area. There seems to be a number of businesses which don´t close down over the winter months.

Right now, I must admit to being most interested in that MAOC-owned cabin in the Bethlehem area of the White Mountains.
Has that ever been mentioned anywhere before?
Anybody knows?
Also, was a sleeping-bag among the objects known to have been found in the Saturn?
We need some "old" MMM veterans here....

Thanks!

More stuff about brainstorming in a group:
(reference at bottom -- snipped and paraphrased)

Brainstorming is a lateral thinking process. It asks that people come up with ideas and thoughts that seem at first to be a bit shocking or crazy. You can then change and improve them into ideas that are useful, and often stunningly original.

During brainstorming there should be no criticism of ideas: You are trying to open up possibilities and break down wrong assumptions about the limits of the problem. Judgments and analysis at this stage will stunt idea generation.

Ideas can be evaluated later and later you can explore solutions further using conventional approaches.

When you brainstorm on your own you will tend to produce a wider range of ideas than with group brainstorming - you do not have to worry about other people's egos or opinions, and can therefore be more freely creative. You may not, however, develop ideas as effectively as you do not have the experience of a group to help you.

Group brainstorming can be very effective as it uses the experience and creativity of all members of the group. When individual members reach their limit on an idea, another member's creativity and experience can take the idea to the next stage. Therefore, group brainstorming tends to develop ideas in more depth than individual brainstorming.

Brainstorming in a group can be risky for individuals. Valuable but strange suggestions may appear stupid at first sight. Because of such, you've got to make sure that uncreative people do not crush these ideas and leave group members feeling humiliated.

* Define the problem you want solved clearly

* Keep focused on the problem

* Ensure that no one criticizes or evaluates ideas. Criticism introduces an element of risk for group members when putting forward an idea. This stifles creativity and cripples the free running nature of good brainstorming session

* Encourage an enthusiastic, uncritical attitude among members. Try to get everyone to contribute and develop ideas, including the quietest members

* Encourage people to come up with as many ideas as possible, from solidly practical ones to wildly impractical ones. Creativity is valuable.

* Ensure that no train of thought is followed for too long

* Encourage people to develop other people's ideas, or to use other ideas to create new ones;

Where possible, participants in the brainstorming process should come from as wide a range of disciplines as possible.(edit: I think this forum has this!) This brings a broad range of experience to the session and helps to make it more creative.

And again, it's worth exploring the use of computer-based tools for group brainstorming.(here, i guess it's all our online research)

Brainstorming is a great way of generating radical ideas. During the brainstorming process there is no criticism of ideas, as free rein is given to people's creativity (criticism and judgment cramp creativity.)

from MindTools.com

If not too may people yell at me I think there are other segments to this article... I'll post 'em.

Can someone please enlighten me about this cyberstalking stuff? I don't understand it. What is the difference between cyberstalking and legitimate research about a person?

What if you think someone is cyberstalking you and you then feel the need to find out who they are? Are you then suckered into cyberstalking them?

Telling someone to take it to the police may be a nice sentiment, but in reality, LE's reaction is based on their department's budget.

How does all this affect a discussion board like this one? How are posters in danger of violating the law on this issue?

Until I find out more, I ain't saying nothing about anything to nobody. Period.

I'm really confused as to when free speech stops and harassment begins.

From the same MindTools.com site (very snipped and edited):

While those who like complete control may find group brainstorming frustrating, it offers advantages that just aren't available when an individual faces the problem solving process on their own.

As a rule, people generally have creative boundaries that they stay within. Often these boundaries are referred to as a "box" and when one begins to think "outside of the box" the problem-solving process can really take off. Group brainstorming helps the group think outside of their boxes, opening creative doors for all.

When brainstorming alone, a person only has only their sole knowledge and experience to rely upon. Creating a diverse brainstorming team allows for multiple founts of knowledge and experience for the group to draw from.

Group brainstorming is about creativity, productivity and working toward a resolution. With a number of personalities and perspectives, the results of the brainstorming process can't help but be maximized.

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ok, this is probably enough of the pep-talk about the benefits of a think-tank, etc. This forum somehow meets the important criteria, including motivated people from very different backgrounds and experiences. I'm not trying to get attention here or be a know-it-sll (well, i'm not totally sure about that), I just looked this stuff up for the first time and was sort of excited by the possibilities ---- even though we have virtually no facts to work with. Maybe we'll get additional facts by using PRIMARY SOURCES more. Enuf.