Where is MAURA MURRAY

whiston wrote:

hi Captain Jack and all.Helena did post that the Murray family did not know where there daughter worked ,went to class,and attended clinicals away from amherst.i have never heard a single student say they had the same classes and they knew Mauras schedule.i know Kate Markopoulos worked with Maura it was reported by Joe Mcgee.when i see mr Murray say one thing and i read something else that was and is being reported i question it because i really want to know what happened to Maura Murray. That is my hidden agenda.look at the facts and try to verify them.look at where they came from and then look at where they came from again it ain't rocket science take care philip

The trouble with hearing Mr. Murray say one thing via the forum and another thing via the media...is precisely that mistakes are made, and I would sooner attribute them to the media than to Helena. For one thing, Helena does not have an editor who is looking for something in terms of style, and also trying to sell papers, and also trying to make something fit in the prescribed columnar space. Reporters sometimes take carelness notes (sorry Euro, but we both know it's true) or misattribute things, or etc.

We've read things in the Union Leader, for example, that Helena has turned around and said are outright wrong, not simply mis-quotes. MEdia has a slant, a spin, to appeal to its audience. The media's primary goal, sadly, is NOT to report the truth, it's to sell papers.

My old signature tag DEWEY WINS! was an attempt to be a reminder of that. Not everything we read in the papers (or on the internet news sources) is true. And yes, we SHOULD question it and verify it, Philip. You're right in that.

It's becoming clear (and it's long been said) that Maura was a very private person, even as close to her dad as she was. So why can't it be true that her family didn't know the name of the places she worked? I've said before, I'm as close to my dad as Maura is, and when I was in college he couldn't have told you the name of the place I worked, though he could have gotten as specific as "a gallery on campus."

Here's a link (probably already posted) to lots of articles about Maura. But I still can't find Gary's article that whiston - you mentioned - from 2/13/04.

Scroll to the bottom of this link and you can click on two pages of dozens of articles....

http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/index.ph...

whiston - I found this, probably in the Daily Collegian:

Lindsay Pemberton, a junior nursing major, has the same class schedule as Murray...

She graduated in 2004 and seems to be a busy, successful young woman in the nursing field and easily google-able. If there's a kind, diplomatic, and non-harassing poster here who wants to get in touch with her... I think she works in Boston.

I thought the Sheriff's Deputy lived around the corner from the accident, heading northwest? I'm obviously not from the area so I just remember this fact/non-fact/post from the other forum. If anyone knows the house's location, it'd be of interest, particularly if the Sheriff/Deputy did have it in the driveway at the time of Maura's accident. Thanks. Will check back later to see if anyone knows.... Putting computer back under tarp before it's buried in falling roof fragment debris.

SHack,

Maura's major at West Point was engineering. I've always fallen back on this when the question of common sense arises.

There are people in this world who are extremely book smart but lacking in common sense. I'm sure you've heard this before.

I also fall back on the belief that it could have been me instead of Maura.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
The trouble with hearing Mr. Murray say one thing via the forum and another thing via the media...is precisely that mistakes are made, and I would sooner attribute them to the media than to Helena. For one thing, Helena does not have an editor who is looking for something in terms of style, and also trying to sell papers, and also trying to make something fit in the prescribed columnar space. Reporters sometimes take carelness notes (sorry Euro, but we both know it's true) or misattribute things, or etc.
We've read things in the Union Leader, for example, that Helena has turned around and said are outright wrong, not simply mis-quotes. MEdia has a slant, a spin, to appeal to its audience. The media's primary goal, sadly, is NOT to report the truth, it's to sell papers.
My old signature tag DEWEY WINS! was an attempt to be a reminder of that. Not everything we read in the papers (or on the internet news sources) is true. And yes, we SHOULD question it and verify it, Philip. You're right in that.
It's becoming clear (and it's long been said) that Maura was a very private person, even as close to her dad as she was. So why can't it be true that her family didn't know the name of the places she worked? I've said before, I'm as close to my dad as Maura is, and when I was in college he couldn't have told you the name of the place I worked, though he could have gotten as specific as "a gallery on campus."

Firecat, Great post!

elsewherebriefly wrote:

SHack,
Maura's major at West Point was engineering. I've always fallen back on this when the question of common sense arises.
There are people in this world who are extremely book smart but lacking in common sense. I'm sure you've heard this before.
I also fall back on the belief that it could have been me instead of Maura.

your ignorance in falling back to stereotypes about engineering is insulting to Maura's exceptional interests and achievements.

the collected sleuthing here is merely hyper-focused gossip and, unfortunately, presents daily opportunities to malign Fred and Billy while freely compounding their grief.

comments here about Fred and his daughter are appalling...often cruel and mean-spirited.

do get a life!

JMO,

I believe your outright and across-the-board condemnation of the contributors of this forum is grossly unfair and unjustified.

As on any non-moderated forum there are, sadly, bound to be people who from time to time overstep the boundaries of decency.
That´s certainly deeply regrettable, and I wholeheartedly condemn that kind of behaviour, but short of shutting down all unmoderated Internet forums and limiting free speech....

Just My Opinion,

It was just a general observation about extremely intelligent people not always using common sense, don't get your panties all tied up in a knot.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

Just My Opinion,
It was just a general observation about extremely intelligent people not always using common sense, don't get your panties all tied up in a knot.

i will knot 'em right up if i choose to! ;) i live with an accomplished multi-degreed former engineer/turned MBA...and defend Maura's exceptional achievements and her gender such as to suggest her competency as easily as her potential incompetence in managing her life.
it's unfair to tag her with co-existing attributes, by stereotype, that cannot be proven to exist.
frankly, i don't have the time or interest to sort through which of you have come from the original MMM site, who agrees or disagrees with whom, or loyalty features/cliques on this forum...but a lack of sensitivity toward Fred/family seems evident to me.
what if it were your daughter?

Eurobserver wrote:

Hello NorthernLights,
I believe I said this before (when you last popped in here a little while ago), but I´ll say it again:
Very welcome onboard here and it´s really good to have some young person of Maura´s age to contribute their thought and ideas.
Regarding the "mystery" red truck seen by witness RO near/in Swiftwater village:
It has been said on this board and on the former MMM forum that the police pulled in red trucks for check-ups throughout the night of Maura´s disappearance.
If this is correct, there must have been a good reason for police to start such an operation in the area.
It would seem to me that the red truck observed by witness RO must have caught the attention of LE as well.
The question is how and why -
what are your thoughts, NorthernLights & all?

Beth and I occasionally discussed the fact that SBD may have been the originator of the red truck story, as they were looking for a red truck that night. I asked RO if she told Monaghan about her uneasiness with the red truck when he spoke to her that night, otherwise how would they know? Beth wrote something cryptic about the journalist who spoke to SBD, forgot his pencil. A regular "Jack be nimmble..."

JMO wrote:

<quoted text>
your ignorance in falling back to stereotypes about engineering is insulting to Maura's exceptional interests and achievements.
the collected sleuthing here is merely hyper-focused gossip and, unfortunately, presents daily opportunities to malign Fred and Billy while freely compounding their grief.
comments here about Fred and his daughter are appalling...often cruel and mean-spirited.
do get a life!

Personally, I think it's pretty funny--in the ironic sense--and also pretty telling that JMO chose to use elsewhere's platform as a criticism of posts that are "cruel and mean-spirited" to Fred and his daughter, since it has been obvious since the beginning of the collection of forums dedicated to Maura that elsewhere has never been anything except a fiercely devoted and kind-hearted defender of the Murray family.

Makes one wonder what else is being mis-read, as a conscious choice or otherwise.

JMO wrote:

<quoted text>
i will knot 'em right up if i choose to! ;) i live with an accomplished multi-degreed former engineer/turned MBA...and defend Maura's exceptional achievements and her gender such as to suggest her competency as easily as her potential incompetence in managing her life.
it's unfair to tag her with co-existing attributes, by stereotype, that cannot be proven to exist.

I think you were perhaps too quick to leap to the defensive and find fault, as I didn't read elsewhere's post to mean that AT ALL.

what if it were your daughter?

Again, a skimmed glance would ensure that elsewhere is, indeed, comparing HER OWN LIFE to Maura's. What if it were her daughter, indeed. What if it were her?

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
I think you were perhaps too quick to leap to the defensive and find fault, as I didn't read elsewhere's post to mean that AT ALL.
<quoted text>
Again, a skimmed glance would ensure that elsewhere is, indeed, comparing HER OWN LIFE to Maura's. What if it were her daughter, indeed. What if it were her?

no, no...i saw that specific reference....but it matters not...every hit to Fred and family is serial guessing, cruel and, therefore, counterproductive. just my opinion. again, i won't linger here...though i may chime in occasionally.

in the moment that's passed...i'd add that such thoughts/comments may unintentionally serve to diminish Maura's exceptional accomplishments.

mcsmom,

Thanks for your comment regarding the mysterious red truck seen by witness RO.
Yes, indeed how would the police have known about the matter of the red truck unless someone actually told them?
And why & how did the police come to link the truck with Maura´s deserted Saturn car?
Was it possibly observed by some witness in connection with the presumed first "mystery" accident in which Maura´s car may have been involved?

Obviously, the red truck was considered important enough for the police to warrant an operation in its own right.

Ideas?

mcsmom, I recall Silky speaking about that "journalist" as well. My recollection, which doesn't include his name (did he work for the Caledonian Record? the Bridge Weekly? it was, I think, one of the smaller papers), is that he was ex-LE or connected to LE enough to at least claim access to some knowledge that wasn't widely available. I think he wrote some things that I hadn't seen anywhere else and which seemed surprosing to put in print (in an "Oh My" sort of way.

quija wrote:

I thought the Sheriff's Deputy lived around the corner from the accident, heading northwest? I'm obviously not from the area so I just remember this fact/non-fact/post from the other forum. If anyone knows the house's location, it'd be of interest, particularly if the Sheriff/Deputy did have it in the driveway at the time of Maura's accident. Thanks. Will check back later to see if anyone knows.... Putting computer back under tarp before it's buried in falling roof fragment debris.

went by there today--it's the last house on Swiftwater circle before you get to 112. Now, the trees obstruct any view (mostly maples) but I did notice last winter that it is clearly visible from the road. The car is parked on the side of the house that faces 112. I also noted today that at the corner of Swiftwater and 112, the Weathered Barn and beyond can be clearly seen. I didn't stop at the Weathered Barn to see if you could see toward Swiftwater, but it didn't seem obstructed at all. At night, there are houselights on in that area--I don't know if the spotlight at the Weathered Barn was working in 2004 but its pretty bright now. I know the Sherriff lived there in 2006--and I don't remember that house selling in the last 4 years.

looking4amoose & all,

Thank you for the information (post # 3406).

I´m just trying to imagine Maura´s situation when her car went off the road at the Weathered Barn curve, or rather just after the curve.
(By the way, are we now assuming that it really was Maura driving the Saturn at this point? She most likely was, but we really can not say for sure whether this was really so. The witness statement of the SBD is far from clear and there is no corroboration which is publicly known)

Anyway, Maura´s car spins off the road and gets stuck in the snow more or less opposite the house of the W´s.
Under "normal" circumstances Maura would probably have knocked on the door of the W house in order to call a towing-truck, as the W residence must surely have been lit-up in the dark.

There is really no way that Maura could have seen a police car parked by the house at the corner of Swiftwater Circle and Rt 112, driving past in the darkness at presumably at least 30 mph. She would have had her eyes on the unknown road ahead rather than looking around for something she couldn´t possibly have known was there in the dark on a (presumably) unknown road.

From the place where the Saturn ended up by the house of the W´s Maura could surely not have seen the house in question at the corner of Swiftwater Circle and Rt 112, at least not unless she walked down to the barn itself. The occupants of that house wouldn´t possibly have been able to see Maura´s car from their residence.

Looking at a Google map/aerial view of the area, that would seem to be quite impossible.

Perhaps the situation "on the ground" is quite different from what one can deduce from a map/aerial view?
What do you say, looking4amoose?

Thanks!

Periodically, I go back to MMM...just to re-read what we are left with after the Forum closing.
I always click on "News"...guess I expect to find something new....I really know better..but, I try
anyway...I go to "Links" sometimes to jump start my mind. I don't look at the pictures.
I can't do that anymore. Today I re-read "About Us"...When anyone has a minute, read the middle
paragraph. Most of us stay through thick and thin.(Literally)
Thinking of Maura......."The night is dark and I am far from Home.........."