Where is MAURA MURRAY

To all, if I may

First off, thank you Jerry for clarifying some misunderstandings as to what I posted here on Topix for Mr. Franklin’s posts on WebSlueths.

I would like to recap some information that has previously been posted on the MMM Forum and partly on this site as well, with reference to the first “call-out” about an accident on route 112 at or about 7:00-7:10 PM on February 9, 2004.

A witness returning home from her/his place of employment at Cottage Hospital on Goose Lane stated she/he observed a black “Bronco style” police unit with #1 stenciled on it passed her/him heading (with blue lights flashing) toward the intersection of Goose Lane and French Pond Road in Swiftwater. Please have a map of this area to follow along as it gets confusing since these routes twist from Haverhill into the Swiftwater portion of the town of Bath and back into the northern section of Haverhill. Goose Lane and the Cottage Hospital are in Haverhill, then into Bath where it continues south-south west back toward the Woodsville portion of Haverhill. As the witness drove further up Goose Lane she/he observed the police unit continue on Goose Lane back toward Swiftwater. As this witness turned off Goose Lane in Bath and onto French Pond Road and the very short distance on French Pond Road to the intersection with route 112 (the Wild Ammonoosuc Road as it’s called) almost across from the general store, she/he observed the same unit (#1) pass her/him at that intersection heading east toward where the Saturn was ultimately located. When the witness came to the corner at the Weathered Barn she/he saw this police unit, nose to nose with the Saturn (ass-end into the snow bank) but did not see any officers or people around the two vehicles (it is assumed Sgt. Smith was at this point either speaking with the Westermans or down speaking with Mr. Atwood. The witness then continued along route 112 East heading home and flashed her/his high-low beams to oncoming traffic (universal signal to slow down ahead) due to the location of the accident on the sharp curve.

This witness’ account of what she/he saw that evening supports the postings about an “earlier accident” where “female left in private vehicle”, which was heard by others over the scanners up in that area.

What does all this mean then? It means an officer was responding to a “vehicle slid off the road” call, but rather than take the most direct route to the Weathered Barn the officer went back toward Route 10 where it intersect with Goose Lane up in the Woodsville section of Haverhill, before turning back toward the corner at the Westerman’s Weathered Barn. Could there have been two separate women sliding off the road into snow banks that evening within thirty minutes of one another, I doubt it but it is possible none the less.

End Part 1

This information has been posted so I’m not telling you anything your own research would not have revealed. This information is only part of the reason I/we place Maura’s disappearance somewhere within 1-3 miles of where the Saturn came to rest. Again, keep in mind this is only “circumstantial evidence” as are all eye-witness accounts. In my many years experience (statistically speaking) there are more convictions based on circumstantial evidence than on “physical evidence”. Long post but I feel this will help you in your scenarios and theories.

Respectfully

Weeper

Hello all,

I just wanted to say thanks for the many and highly interesting postings in response to my previous questions to ponder.
I haven´t yet had enough time to carefully read and digest all recent postings, but it seems to me that there are many new theories, suggestions and ideas coming up here which I haven´t seen before.
Now, back to reading....

Euro

Ben Franklin wrote:

1. Why the rag in the tail-pipe of the Saturn?"
Answers I've seen: a.) It would cause the car to stall b.)The woman Mr. Atwood saw where car was left placed it there to stop smoke from coming out of tailpipe to prevent herself from being noticed.

The cock-a-mamie front headlights of the Saturn would have caused other drivers to notice, for sure. So if the rag in tailpipe was to prevent being noticed by tailpipe smoke, it must have been a thought after the vehicle had already stopped. But then, if the car is stopped and turned off ... there'd be no smoke, so why the rag then?

Hello all,

A few more questions:

a) Why did Haverhill PD sergeant CS bother to apply for a search warrant for Maura´s Saturn?
On what possible grounds could he have deemed this procedure necessary?
Possible reasons?

1)Signs of alcohol/possibly a case of drunk driving when observing the contents of the car from the "outside"?

2)The fact that the driver of the car was missing?

Would an application for a search warrant in similar situations be a kind of standard procedure for all officers in sergeant CS´s situation here?

b) I believe I read somewhere on the old MMM Forum that it was stated that the Lincoln Police was sent out to search for the driver of the Saturn along Rte 112 west of Lincoln and in the direction towards Swiftwater.

Is this a known fact or mere supposition?

Thanks!

AMERICAN MORNING

Mystery Disappearance

Aired February 17, 2004 - 07:15 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The disappearance of a Massachusetts nursing student has her family, her friends and police now searching for answers. Twenty-one-year-old Maura Murray was last seen a week ago, after her car crashed on a rural highway in northern New Hampshire. Despite a frantic search, Maura's trail seems to have vanished.
Joining us this morning from a motel in Wells River, Vermont, which has now become a home base for the searchers, Maura's father, Fred Murray, and her boyfriend, Army Lieutenant Bill Rausch.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0402/1...

Oy-evay.......

Oh FireCat, I had not even thought about the "acceleration-then-thud " in THAT way. I feel ill.

I did come off more harshly than may have been necessary about the "facts" - I did not mean to say that anyone was intentionally misleading. We have all had snippets of information that we have mis-read or remembered incorrectly, not with any malicious intent at all, and when those become assumptions of fact, it doesn't help the investigation.

However, when LE or media do intentionally mis-state or infer, that's a problem. All of LE's comments, very early on, about alcohol, possible suicide, were just that, and to me, reprehensible. At that point, they did not have enough information to say those things, period. It was very wrong to do that, libelous in my opinion.

The fact remains, however, that while Maura's route seems evident, we do not know that that was her route. It is a reasonable assumption, but it's still an assumption.

Thank you, Weeper.

Something has happened to Maura, no longer in control of her car. Someone else is driving, someone who knows how to drive frostheaves in a hurry. She may or may not be in the car as it stops the "first" time.
That call on a female sliding off the road; a false one to pinpoint Maura, misunderstood by the person intercepting.....,~that call is a farce to be shared by 2 or more parties communicating on this "attack" of sorts?

A car spins the curve, is "ass in" the snowbank. Hot exhaust, difficult to reach, but maybe a last try to get out of that predicament. Car accelerates to no avail....what's the thud? The hood going down?

There's the car, now SBD, people witnessing different things,'Maura' in the car,'Maura' out the car. She does not want help, has called AAA. Butch mumbles "you lie" there's no reception here. He leaves to go call 911, briefly into house where near deaf mother and x wife are. He goes out to the porch and then his bus which is unusual according to a long time neighbor (nosey or not) does paperwork and waits for CS. Somewhere in there he gets through to 911 just minutes before CS arrives. Did he *need* privacy from those in the house? Like, keep them out of this.........

CS pulls up from his 7 or 730 call :(
(ah) sees the rag, it immediately bothers him into action after talking with the SBD and W-Mans
Not sure on the order of this)
Butch takes off in his 4 x 4 and heads down to French Pond road,passes the general store. CS is also off that direction in a brief 15 minute search. Why that a way?

Somewhere in there is a black Bronco seemingly on a goose chase. It goes here and there and drives up to the Saturn where there are no people and no other cars? Supposedly the car is locked, did the driver duck down in his seat or get out and walk? Have they spoken with the
driver of that Bronco? It wasNOT Monahan. It was not CS, and if actually with police, his name has not come up. If he is/was actually police, did he justify the goose chase and getting so near the Saturn.

Why not allow EMS, who would be arriving shortly near the car? Was it because of Bronco or was it because the driver was gone and so no need?
Even so, a roadblock a few days later may have been to look for further evidence of ciggybutts or other things to link with people at the Saturn.

I have that link Jerry Fletcher, thank you, but do you know where I can find the full 7 page report or am I wrong that there's more than what's on Maura's site?
Thanks Quija for painting more in my mind.
And Weeper, we appreciate you, I'm sure you know this :))

Weeper wrote:

<text deleted> I would like to recap some information that has previously been posted on the MMM Forum and partly on this site as well, with reference to the first “call-out” about an accident on route 112 at or about 7:00-7:10 PM on February 9, 2004. <text deleted>

Taken from Wikipedia just cuz I don’t have dispatch log in front of me:

7:29 PM - Dispatch receives a call from a Woodsville, NH area resident who reports an accident near her house on Route 112.

7:43 PM - Dispatch receives a call from another Woodsville, NH area resident who reports a black Saturn partially in the road.

7:46 PM - First known police officer (Haverhill Police) arrives on the scene.

So. Witness’s accounting is 7:00 - 7:10 pm.

First 911 call is at 7:29 pm.

Haverhill Chief of Police refuses to discuss time of accident with Billy’s mother in immediate days after family‘s arrival; and

Robinsonordsway (witness to red truck) was told by Trooper Monaghan (he was on scene) that he would not answer questions regarding time.

So. Ok. What happened in the time between 7:00-7:10 pm and when the first 911 call was placed at 7:29 pm?

I really don't expect anyone to answer this question.

Euro, my thoughts......
a) They're in a jam, need to learn about her, can see into the book sitting there, the spider crack which may have seemed odd, see what has changed since the car was observed earlier, if it was, check for signs someone else was in the car.
1) To see if container in the car matched the strong odor in the coke bottle outside?
2) Missing yes, rag in tailpipe, realizing "info from DMV" doesn't match the long hair, height they are about to learn? Maybe know they have an injured missing person that could not have been the one seen at the weathered Barn
(Would an application for a search warrant in similar situations be a kind of )(standard procedure for all officers in sergeant CS´s situation here?)
b) Maybe Lincoln police drove a black Bronco?

Didn't officer Smith say he was on a call, near by?
If it wasn't that one, maybe a diversion somehow, a purposely misleading report over scanner to get him away or near either Swiftwater?
Jerry Fletcher, you're right, they never wanted to pinpoint a time. It was always.....got the call at 7 or 730.
Could the officer have seen differences himself between the before and after, the Saturn being very different?

Why would anyone refuse help if they were just attacked in some way? In other words if Maura did herself get hit, sideswiped, someone hitting on her car and she got away, spun the curve because of the wrecked headlights..........why wouldn't she just scream at the top of her lungs, HELP! Running wouldn't be safe if you had people on your back, SBD, big guy or not was on his bus, she could have thought he was after her too so why say, no, I'm fine, called AAA, thanks anyhow?

Weeper and Paris, thank you for stating more clearly than I think I've seen before that the black quasi-LE Bronco was driving around in a manner that was not direct. That strikes me as odd for LE, unless there were two calls.

BUT...was the black Bronco with the "#1" (interesting in itself) really a LE vehicle, or an imposter? Silky and JMLH have spoken of a LE imposter, the "interstate man" or "interstate rapist." IF the black Bronco was really LE, wouldn't it be easy to determine that? Why have we never heard the driver of that vehicle - a vehicle that sounds quite conspicuous with the "#1" and all - identified. Not Monahan, not Smith. Strange!

Eurobserver, those are really good questions. It would seem odd to me to request and obtain a search warrant based on alcohol in or not in the car, since the presence of alcohol inside OR outside the car is not evidence of a crime. I would hope that a search warrant would not be given unless there was a very good reason to do so. That suggests to me some evidence of a crime, which would also explain EMS being kept away from the car. It's really the only good reason I can see to PREVENT EMS from looking at the car.

I'd like to point out that keeping EMS away from the car is a whole lot different than telling them, as has been reported in the media, that they simply weren't needed.
"Nothing to see here, just move along."
EMS personnel of my acquaintance don't take well to that sort of thing.

Also, I'm still not sure who it was that either "turned EMS/Fire back" or attempted to do so.

Supposedly Maura was facing the W-Mans house and the lights were on so she'd know it would be worth a shot to out run anybody yet she stayed at her car up to 2 minutes before police arrived.
HUH? I don't care about the dogs smelling her barely if ever worn gloves either. All Smith had to do was touch them, am I right or not? Touch them and his scent a day later followed up toward the bus where SBD waited for CS that night.

Yes, Paris, I've wondered that too - why if Maura had just been in an accident would she refuse help, by SBD's account almost rudely. Some have said "drunk and evading police" but what if it wasn't Maura? Suddenly the behavior seems more explicable.

Jerry Fletcher,

You are pointing your questions in a very interesting and intriguing direction here:

The really big question seems to be:

What did in fact happen between ca 7.00-7.10 pm and ca 7.30 pm which from a LE point of view seems to be regarded as almost a matter of national secrecy to the point of absurdity?
Why the apparent LE sensitivty (to put it mildly) as regards the time factor here?
As far as I recall from previous posts here on board, nothing whatsoever happened in this area from an LE point of view during the time frame in question, if we are to believe the official police logs for Grafton County.
Isn´t this highly strange indeed???

And then, consider all the vehicles out and about in the area at about this time, some of them (or rather their drivers) behaving more or less oddly:

1. The mysterious, official-looking Bronco as mentioned by Weeper in his recent post

2. The equally mysterious red truck (possibly MA reg.) as observed in Swiftwater village by witness RO.

3. The official car being driven by State Trooper M-n, who briefly spoke with red truck witness RO

4. The SBD (Mr A) driving around in his private 4x4 looking for the driver of the Saturn in the French Pond Road area (why there, as someone here asked before, and not, just as an exemple, east along the Rte 112 towards Lincoln?).

5. Haverhill PD Sergeant CS also driving around in his police cruiser on the apparent look-out for the missing female driver of the Saturn, apparently also heading west towards Swiftwater village rather than east towards Lincoln.

6. Possibly also a police vehicle from the Lincoln PD heading west from Lincoln on the 112 towards Swiftwater looking for the missing female driver of the Saturn (I have seen this mentioned previously either here or on the old MMM board, but do not know whether this is a substantiated fact).

And somehow related to witness RO´s sighting of the red mystery truck:
Police stopping and checking red trucks in the area throughout the night.
Why mounting such an operation?

This is almost a kind of scenario straight out of an X-files episode or something similar on television.
Most people unaware of Maura´s case and who haven´t previously researched the publicly available facts and "near-facts" as closely as almost all of us here on this forum, would find the sequence of strange events unfolding to be almost unbelievable in their near-surrealism.
Somehow, looking at the mix of crazy-seeming elements makes me more certain than ever that something extremely strange and/or exceptional happened in the Swiftwater area on that night.

The more I consider what I´ve written above, the stranger and stranger it all becomes.
What do you all think?
Thanks!

Hello Sophie Bean,

I quite agree with your conclusion there.
This may also explain why the lady driver of the Saturn apparently tried to cover her face when the SBP arrived at the car.
Not wanting to be recognized by the SBD such a female "impostor" may have tried to partially cover her face with the same rag which was later found in the tail pipe of the Saturn.
Possible?

sophie bean wrote:

Yes, Paris, I've wondered that too - why if Maura had just been in an accident would she refuse help, by SBD's account almost rudely. Some have said "drunk and evading police" but what if it wasn't Maura? Suddenly the behavior seems more explicable.

I couldn't agree more and have tried to imagine it was Maura only to keep thinking it could not have been Maura. Not only because of investigators like Weeper, but because of the various accounts by witnesses, passers by and police accounts. Keeping the info from family, etc. The story about Fred driving seems twisted when Maura's name is clearly on that police log as driver. And now the info it seemed I'd never read again about the Bronco

hi all, obvious is good .who was driving H1 feb 09 04.why turn left away from the saturn then turn around and go toward the saturn. were the police expecting drugs coming through in a black saturn.did the witness stop at the store.whose were the tyre marks in the snow that are on the accident report that sgt Smith noted .lots to chew on take care philip