Where is MAURA MURRAY

Lady Gray,

I remembered discussing this back when the investigation started. Not sure if you remember but thought I'd provide a link as to the outcome of the federal investigation.

http://charlotte.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/2008/ce0...

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
It was an old unoccupied small camp that burned. It was not a meth lab!

I certainly appreciate your correcting that---I like to hear good things about the area.

Shack wrote:

Excuuuuuse me..for butting in here...but, I don't see the negative connotation of the "middle of nowhere"...for 69 years I have enjoyed and loved my "middle of nowhere"..when I rent out my camp and people ask "where is the nearest
yardi"...and I tell 'em X amount of miles..I am really qualifying them.
When I am at the lake the only sounds are critters and sloshing of water.
When I try to sleep at Mom's in Woodsville..the traffic noise at night keeps me awake..(noisier than here at home)
Guess to most people Swiftwater area is...but, the bridge is on Natl Hist.Reg. and a quaint NE "blink" village.....
Stage whisper..(and a dandy area to disappear...hide...whatever... )
"Don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining...."

I'm at my best in the middle of nowhere and there's nothing negative implied by it--it just doesn't represent the reality of that area of Haverhill.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

Interestingly enough, rural areas such as Grafton County are prime locations for meth production. Has something to do with the availabilty of fertilizer, I think. Just stating a fact and not trying to trash the area.
Looking4amoose,

Also has to do with the fact that meth labs smell really funny, and if your closest neighbors are deer and antelope playing, they won't report it.

yankee wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't even understand what you are saying here, are you saying she was injured or killed and law enforcement covered it up?

Yankee, it did sound unclear. Please see if this makes any more sense. THIS IS SPECULATION, EXCEPT FOR THE QUOTES AND THE FACT LE HAD TO BE THE ONE TO PLACE THE 7PM RADIO CALL.

If there was some kind of chase Maura might have been caught in the middle of it and lost control of the Saturn from being startled (chase passing her, could've been anyone's vehicle), or even run off the road by a criminal being chased.

Someone had to call in that "first accident". It had to be LE. If it was a cop who WASN'T involved in another very important call he would've stayed with her.

So if it was witnessed by one of several cops in the chase, maybe one cop took time to make sure she was OK... she had to have been or other radio calls would've been made and I'd expect LE would attend to HER. Maybe she's told to sit tight, LEs coming. Something happens to Maura. She's seen leaving in a POV.

Whoever made that now-sealed-from-public radio call around 7PM HAD to be LE (we were advised on another forum). Maura leaves in a POV --- and LE then scrambles to look for her. This could explain all the driving around by LE, LE later not taking the most direct route to the Saturn on 112, local and SP in the area already.

This could explain LE having gotten a visual of her (CS later: "where's the girl?") and seeing the contents of the car (CS later: "Some liquor is missing"). If the Saturn was head-first into a slight ditch, someone might've put the towel in the tailpipe for pure safety and ID reasons.(CS later: "where's the girl with the towel in the tailpipe").

I don't think LE is hiding having hit or injured Maura, but maybe they knew they "lost" her. That isn't a police crime... but things get bad (for everyone, of course) when Maura doesn't reappear.

Yankee, does this make more sense? Any part of it worth working with?

Hello all,

Following up on Quija´s highly interesting post (#4136), which I find very plausible indeed as a possible explanation:

What if Maura´s Saturn became stuck in the snow in a likely first accident in the Swiftwater area.
Perhaps a passing motorist stopped by her car, seeing her Saturn in a ditch/snowbank.
The motorist helps Maura getting her car back on the road (I believe I read about signs of the interior floor mats of the Saturn showing signs of possibly having been used for that kind of purpose), but Maura´s car won´t start for some reason. She´s in a hurry and the motorist offers to tow her car to, say, Lincoln further east on the 112. Maura gets behind the wheel of her car, puts the automatic gear shift lever into the "N"/Neutral position (in order not to seriously damage the automatic transmission while the car is being towed with all four wheels "on the ground").
By the Weathered Barn curve Maura loses control of her car in the sharp bend, the tow-rope snaps and the Saturn ends up in the snowbank facing west in the east-bound lane.

Alternatively, Maura´s helper may not necessarily be an unknown motorist just happening to be passing by her car. He/she may just as well be a "helper" from Amherst, trailing behind Maura´s Saturn in his/her own car/truck (perhaps the red, possibly MA-reg truck seen by witness RO).

Also:
There is, as far as we know, no way to tell whether the young lady driving the Saturn and likely having the first accident somewhere in the Swiftwater village area west of the Weathered Barn, was actually the "real" Maura or not.
It may well have been Maura, but the female driver of the Saturn could also have been a young woman looking like Maura.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Also has to do with the fact that meth labs smell really funny, and if your closest neighbors are deer and antelope playing, they won't report it.

and it's not going to offend the black bear--they smell bad enough on their own!

Thanks for the kind words, Paris!
I'll work on my swing (hi elsewherebriefly!) and develop, I guess, rhino hide.
Whatever. See, I think that empathy - no. nothing especially psychic, I'm talking about compassion - is an ASSET.

Watching 20/20, the first thing that struck me was, like Shack, tears. Through the whole show, and afterwards.

The next thing that struck me was Scarzina's attitude. He might just as well have come right out and said what he thinks about Maura, Fred, family and friends. Arrogant, scornful, completely careless for others' suffering. Not exactly the sort of person I'd expect or hope to be a State Trooper.

My next question, for those of you who might know - is this his usual attitude, or is this unusual for him?
My guess would be the former. If it's the latter, wow, that's a new wrinkle.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

...Interestingly enough, rural areas such as Grafton County are prime locations for meth production. Has something to do with the availabilty of fertilizer, I think. Just stating a fact and not trying to trash the area.

Couple of years ago, I read an article about the prevalence of meth production on Indian reservations in the west, and the reason given was that there was a lot of land area including wilderness, and far fewer police to cover it. Am thinking the qualities of the mountains in the Grafton area may also have a lot to do with drug activities there.

Eurobserver wrote:

...What if Maura´s Saturn became stuck in the snow in a likely first accident in the Swiftwater area.
Perhaps a passing motorist stopped by her car, seeing her Saturn in a ditch/snowbank.
The motorist helps Maura getting her car back on the road (I believe I read about signs of the interior floor mats of the Saturn showing signs of possibly having been used for that kind of purpose), but Maura´s car won´t start for some reason. She´s in a hurry and the motorist offers to tow her car to, say, Lincoln further east on the 112. Maura gets behind the wheel of her car, puts the automatic gear shift lever into the "N"/Neutral position (in order not to seriously damage the automatic transmission while the car is being towed with all four wheels "on the ground").

I think Quija's post makes a lot of sense too, but my one question regarding towing of Maura's car (any kind of towing, whether "jerry-rigged" or otherwise) is: wouldn't RO and the woman who owns/runs the Stage Stop store have noticed a towed car going by? Especially one that had a jerry-rig tow. If I remember right, RO reached the Stage Stop around 7 PM and was there until something like 7:30 PM. Unless Maura was coming from another direction, she should have passed the Stage Stop during the time RO was there. I can understand RO and the other lady not noticing a passing car, but a towed car might have been noticed. RO did see the police car go by.

If a vehicle is towed by a tow rope or chain it would not be obvious that it was being towed, especially in the dark. It would just look like one vehicle following another closely.

Paris, I feel bad that you missed the 20/20..I should have yelled at (reminded) you...;-]

Really ...it was pretty much the same clips as the March/April 2006 airing.
Scarinza (sp?), representing the usual attitude "not my/our fault".blame the victim. Not judging his presence, only his words.

Reporting by McGee from Caledonian Record? Sharon/Bill..same clips....same viewing of the 112
road and curve...blue ribbon tree...the difference that I SAW was Fred...the years of
sad showing in his face. His halting words of sorrow, very definitely trying to restrain and curtail his disgust and anger. The heart sorrow of Maura's Mom can only be imagined,(just a quick photo shot)
I tried to watch it as if I hadn't known about it. Obviously missing was any representation of HPD.

A Town of 5 K pop...? in NH..? vs a Town in Oregon of 54K.pop..?
Oregon Town started LOOKING 3 hours after...vs NH Town ......well, you all know the timing.

Being optimistic, hopefully this airing will spur some positive action.

LvsNH..I Agree (especially no street lights)

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>
Couple of years ago, I read an article about the prevalence of meth production on Indian reservations in the west, and the reason given was that there was a lot of land area including wilderness, and far fewer police to cover it. Am thinking the qualities of the mountains in the Grafton area may also have a lot to do with drug activities there.

It is indeed the case that national parks and wilderness areas have seen an increase in criminal and drug activity in recent years. Can back that up with statistics if anyone needs to know that I'm not just talking out my arse (for once) but am currently too lazy to get off said arse and find them. But it IS true....and larger area with less coverage is indeed much of the reason.

Which is interesting when you take into consideration that HPD was understaffed in 2004. May or may not be related, but there it is.

I don't know if it's his "real" personality, his "police" personality (because sometimes people are different off the clock and out of uniform), or even just his "I'm being interviewed on national television" personality, but my assessment of Scarinza from that brief series of scene was "smarmy."

That's not meant in any personal way, because I've never had any personal interaction with the guy. He may be a swell human being to hang out with, on or off the clock. But that's what my radar said.

Shack wrote:

Paris, I feel bad that you missed the 20/20..I should have yelled at (reminded) you...;-]
Really ...it was pretty much the same clips as the March/April 2006 airing.
Scarinza (sp?), representing the usual attitude "not my/our fault".blame the victim. Not judging his presence, only his words.
Reporting by McGee from Caledonian Record? Sharon/Bill..same clips....same viewing of the 112
road and curve...blue ribbon tree...the difference that I SAW was Fred...the years of
sad showing in his face. His halting words of sorrow, very definitely trying to restrain and curtail his disgust and anger. The heart sorrow of Maura's Mom can only be imagined,(just a quick photo shot)
I tried to watch it as if I hadn't known about it. Obviously missing was any representation of HPD.
A Town of 5 K pop...? in NH..? vs a Town in Oregon of 54K.pop..?
Oregon Town started LOOKING 3 hours after...vs NH Town ......well, you all know the timing.
Being optimistic, hopefully this airing will spur some positive action.
LvsNH..I Agree (especially no street lights)

Shack, I'm sending her a copy of the DVD. She'll see it by week's end.

Hello all,

So perhaps it wouldn´t really be noticed by any witnesses if Maura´s Saturn was being towed by a tow rope/chain in the dark?

You see, according to Advocator´s case chart, Maura´s automatic drive Saturn was found at the Weathered Barn curve with the gear shift lever in the "N"/Neutral position.
If this is indeed a FACT, then my conclusion would be that the Saturn might well have been towed (by a tow rope/chain) from the location of the first accident to where it hit the snowbank by the Weathered Barn curve.
I´ve checked out several sites for information on this, and it´s being clearly stated that an automatic transmission vehicle must be towed while in the "N"/Neutral position of the gear lever in order to stop the transmission getting damaged. This is for towing by a tow rope/chain only.

An automatic transmission car being towed with its front or rear wheels off the ground must be left in the "P"/Park position of the gear lever.

All this would suggest to me that Maura´s Saturn may well have been towed by a car or truck using a tow rope/chain with Maura (or whoever was behind the wheel of the Saturn) having to steer the car while it was being towed with all the four wheels on the ground.

There seems to be few other reasonable explanations as for why the automatic transmission gear shift lever was to have been found in the "Neutral" position by the Weathered Barn.

Now, considering that there are quite a few houses in the immediate vicinity of where the Saturn ended up opposite the residence of Mr & Mrs W-n, I could well imagine that the driver of the car or truck towing Maura´s Saturn might have got into some frenzy when the Saturn suddenly ended up in the snowbank by the Weathered Barn.

The frenzy would probably have been even more pronounced if the driver of the vehicle towing Maura´s Saturn was in fact a "helper" from Amherst. Perhaps such a theoretical "helper" driver got him/herself into a panic seeing several houses with the lights on nearby, turned around at the Bradley Hill Road intersection and drove back to Swiftwater village, where he/she (perhaps driving the mysterious red truck with possibly MA plates)may have been loitering for a while, expecting the driver of the Saturn (Maura or not Maura) to be walking along the 112 in the direction of the Stage Stop Store, waiting to be picked up.
Could this be the reason why the driver of the red truck seemed to be stopping for a closer look at witness RO?

I do think that this scenario of mine may well be a plausible one, if I may be allowed to say so myself.

Hello again all esteemed posters,

Another thought just struck me:

According to the descriptions I´ve read regarding the contents of Maura´s car, I have always (perhaps wrongly?) got the impression that there were a number of objects strewn about in the compartment of the Saturn.

If this is indeed correct, then I would find this somewhat surprising, considering that I´ve always seen Maura described as being somewhat of a "neat freak", more likely to put her things carefully stowed in bags, suitcases or whatever even if rushing off in rather a hurry.

Please, let me know your thoughts and feelings about this.
Thanks!

Wow, Eurobserver, I'd missed the fact that it was found in neutral - I remember hearing it and thinking it was odd, but I didn't think about towing (illegally) until you just mentioned it. That's the best ad only reason I can imagine for finding the car in neutral.
REALLY good "catch"!

Firecat...Glad you are sending 20/20 airing to Paris...bet she is also. TX
Just one little thing....it doesn't make any difference for finding out about Maura...but,
with the very few facts that we do have....
The box of wine was found on the back
seat, behind the driver's side (not on ground).....also... my vague memory...that there
were items on the passenger seat....(unimportant, only to show that a person wasn't
sitting beside her or behind her)

Hello sophie bean,

It´s getting very late here in Sweden, but just wished to say many thanks for your kind words there. Much appreciated!

The question is:

Where do we go from here, assuming that Maura´s Saturn was being towed, possibly by a "helper" (perhaps from Amherst) using a tow chain or similar?
What conclusions could we draw from such an assumption?
That Maura (provided it was really Maura here) was likely picked up by a known "helper" driving another car or truck and being driven away in that other car/truck, presumably further east on 112? And then?
Lincoln, Franconia, Bartlett, Conway, Bethlehem - wherever?
The most optimistic assumption here being that Maura (if it was indeed Maura by the Weathered Barn) might just possibly have left the Saturn alive, going where???

Elsewhere, Forgot to say...I carefully read the site....the word "allegations" jumped out....
"Allegations" have to have a beginning....as in writings ...I felt that someone
and/or many had a social and moral conscience to do the right thing. Even
though I can imagine the fear of those who were brave enough to speak.