- Posted in the Franconia Forum
Comments (Page 207)
Eurobserver's comments: "Hello all,
So perhaps it wouldn´t really be noticed by any witnesses if Maura´s Saturn was being towed by a tow rope/chain in the dark?"
In my humble opinion - unless it was so dark the car couldn't be seen, someone might notice the car's lights off - if they were off.
But there might not have been enough traffic to ensure someone would see a tow, even if it looked unusual.
Another reason to have the car in neutral is to push it, or turn it off.
I have read no reports of pushing - but I don't know the traffic level.
I have just started reading this forum and must say you all are very impressive.
In regards to the car being in neutral and being towed, if someone was trying to help her, why not tow the car back to Woodsville? It is closer, towing to Lincoln would not make sense.(112 is a very narrow winding road and in the winter there are a lot of frost heaves) Also if she was heading to Barlett, why didn't she stay on the 302 which is a much better road and a more direct route? It is a terible sotry and I hope her parents have clsure some day.
Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Welcome to this forum and thanks for your kind words.
As for your questions:
1. Why not tow Maura´s car back to Woodsville instead of possibly towing it further east towards Lincoln?
I agree that this would be the "normal" thing to do here.
However, if Maura (let´s presume that the young female driver of the Saturn was in fact Maura here) was desperate to reach, say Lincoln (perhaps intending to stay overnight there), she wouldn´t have wanted to turn back to Woodsville and lose precious time.
If she had a kind of "helper" with her all the way from Amherst, tailing Maura´s Saturn in his/her car or truck as a sort of back-up vehicle (considering that Maura´s Saturn was known to be mechanically unsound), then this "helper" would likely be towing Maura´s car all the way to Lincoln (if that was the destination for the night).
When Maura lost control of her Saturn being towed at the Weathered Barn curve, the tow chain/rope snapped and her car ended up in the wrong direction in the snowbank.
The "helper" towing Maura´s Saturn panicked, turned back towards Swiftwater village, waited for some time and later picked up Maura close to where her car was stuck.
I personally happen to think that this scenario is probably the most likely here.
Why didn´t Maura choose the 302 instead of the 112?
We simply don´t know, but there could be many reasons:
a) Perhaps she had booked a cabin or a motel room in the Lincoln/N.Woodstock area, consulted a road map and considered driving the 112 to be a shorter and quicker alternative to the 302?
b) Maura most likely didn´t know this part of NH at all well and perhaps not at all (she was very familiar with the area starting at Lincoln and going east and north).
Thus she likely had no way of knowing the true winter condition of the Woodsville-Lincoln stretch of the 112 and may well not have been aware that she would have been much better off by staying on the 302.
I´m sure we all look forward to your future participation here!
Firecat & Advocator,
I also heard that they like to go mobile. RV's, Vans, etc.
The chemicals from meth labs do an awful number on the environment and the can taint huge amounts of ground, drinking, water.
The Sheriff's Dept stands out here in our community. They are the best of the best. Clean cut, well spoken, and extremely professional. The NHSP have always stood out, in my opionion, as being the best of the best as well.
Is is just me??
The subject being held for Brooke Wilburger's disappearance looks familiar!
He has changed his appearance on countless occasions but the photo of him with blonde hair cropped on top of his head has me wondering.
I regret that they didn't give a history of where he was born, worked, known places he travelled.
He was in two corners of the west coast so I'm wondering if he's also been in both corners of the Eastern Seaboard as well.
I have a hard time thinking the car needed to be towed from UASS. That Maura went on a journey to see to it, maybe help in some way. Take time off school....with who......tell Dad what when she called....tell Billy what when she called? There was something more on Maura's mind, more than the distress of hitting the guardrails, but there had to be some peace too. She would have had a new car by the next week, a car she wanted and help pick out. Dad said insurance would cover the damage, go get the forms was all she had to do and she had the forms, somehow. So let's toy with it here. Maura calls from *somewhere*, Dad, let's do the forums....yes, I'm in my room OR well Dad, I'm up North but let's go over the forums now. What Dad? I just needed some time off and paid 200 to this friend of a friend and now my car here, maybe I can sell it. He offered to have it scrapped since someone lied and said it hit a person who is now in the hospital, but I said no, I'd rather drive along and drink mudslides and wine and visit the White Mountains.
Nope, I can't imagine this.
Why was the box of wine crushed? Why was there a beer bottle in back?
Joined: May 15, 2008
I too had missed the importance of the Saturn being left in neutral.
But... would a car also be put in neutral if someone (without a helper at the wheel and at the gears), was trying to get it unstuck from a snowbank? Pushing it manually?
In terms of "the first accident", I read that in some states an accident with under $1000 damage and no injuries isn't even a reportable accident, and the driver should not call 911, but call the police business line instead.(This was said by a Virginia Police Officer.)
Talking to another person I was told (you all probably knew this) that in addition to nurses, police do triage too, and if a girl is in a damaged car but not injured, they are supposed to continue with "more urgent" business. If the car is a bit in the road I don't know if they'd take a moment to advise her to put on flashers or at night to flag the part in the road with something white. During more urgent business WOULD LE take a minute out to do this, or not? SOMEone saw the inside of the Saturn, the driver and some contents.
I wondered too why someone as neat as Maura would have empty bags, boxes, containers in the car. It is possible her possessions were neatly piled or organized on the back seat --- but they probably got thrown around in the accident(s). It was said that the 5-litre box of wine was BROKEN. There was a lot of discussion elsewhere as to what it would take to break a box of wine and I don't remember the force necessary.
Thinking your car will be towed, you will leave it in neutual. "Maura" said she already AAA. Let's say she did ask that woman to call for her and that was the first call of an accident or sliding off the road, whatever it was. Keep in mind that Maura might not use AAA though if she had cash and wanted it to remain private, her car needing a tow. She's have stayed with her car to have money in hand in that case, right?
1) The lady calls for a tow, Maura leaves her car sitting there and get's into someones car. Now what? It's open, easy to steal? It's stolen and driven until it spins out.....
2) The lady calls for a tow, calls 911 too? But the car's gone again, turn back EMT
It does 'sound' like the Saturn may have been there before it accelerated and bashed into the snowbank, assended into the snowbank. Put it it nuetual, hurry, rock the car, rock the car, shit, I'm stuck. No, I don't need help, I called AAA. Grab some things, hurry, hurry, you might never see your car again. Take time with the rag, burn your hand even while you're in the trunk going through your stuff. Booze, good enough, all the rest can sit.
No, can't imagine that either......at least not as a true possibility.
I think this is a good point and highly possible.
Joined: May 15, 2008
I hadn't thought about leaving the Saturn in neutral, locking it up out of habit, leaving it ready for a tow (that won't damage it)! Then Maura doesn't have to wait for the tow? Of course, the biggest question -- whose vehicle did she get into?
Paris - have you seen this police site linked below? It only has a few relevant ideas and covers all the states, but its public forums have answers about accident protocol, police, sheriffs or SP leaving jurisdictions, etc. You have to hunt but it brings up things that can give us new ideas for q's about NH and Maura's situation... first responders, securing the scene, etc.
Who's vehicle did she get into......
Well there's the white unmarked official looking vehicle somebody saw and the driver may have gotten into that. People think I'm undercover because I drive a police cruiser, that is until they see me...I have the spotlight and everything on the front.
I'm going to go read your link, thank you Quija
Joined: May 15, 2008
Paris, I think the small white towel was put in earlier. If Weeper says there was a first accident within a few miles, I'll go with that. And if Maura thought she was never going to see her car again she'd've taken her jewelry and the other personal items that meant a lot to her.
SPECULATION....I'm leaning toward believing that whoever saw Maura's first accident and saw her as well as car contents had to be LE. And discrepancies in the reports may be due to embarrassment and upset that they didn't protect Maura from what came next. But I also believe that if LE saw her, she was OK, and left her to head toward a serious crime, that they were following correct procedure and know they didn't do anything wrong -- they did it by the book and it turned into a horror story. Sorry, Paris, that I've been repeating myself, but I just see a picture forming...
I think about the different descriptions of the driver.
I think about what they told the family and what they didn't mean to say by not saying it with things like "some of the bottles were missing"
I think about how they told Freddy Jr to report Maura missing in her own state of Mass.
If this were cut and dry to them, would they help create all the confusion?
Joined: Jun 16, 2008
I´m by no means suggesting that Maura´s Saturn was being towed by way of using a tow chain/rope all the way from Amherst to Swiftwater.
My personal theory is that Maura may have started out from Amherst with her presumably unreliable Saturn, being "tailed" by some kind of "helper" in a car/truck of his/her own as a back-up vehicle.
For some reason Maura loses control of the car on rte 112 somewhere near Swiftwater village and the Saturn ends up in a ditch or snowbank, perhaps even hitting a guard-rail, and causing the front damage to the Saturn.
Her "helper" comes along in his/her car/truck, tows the Saturn out of the ditch/snowbank. For some reason the Saturn won´t start, but as long as the ignition is functioning (which it likely is) any lights still working after the damage to the front of the car can be switched on while the Saturn is being towed in the direction of the Weathered Barn with Maura (presumably) at the wheel, steering the Saturn.
The white towel is put into the tail pipe of the Saturn warning drivers coming up behind, the gear shift lever of the Saturn´s automatic transmission is put into Neutral and the towing commences at a slow speed.
Then comes the sudden sharp bend at the Weathered Barn. Maura (let´s assume it is Maura here) loses control of the Saturn, the towing chain/rope snaps and the Saturn ends up in the snowbank facing west in the eastbound lane.
The "helper" panicks when seeing several houses nearby, turns around towards Swiftwater village, possibly being observed by witness RO, and after a while returns to the Weathered Barn to pick up Maura on the road there.
I think it´s just a matter of coincidence that the "helper" arrives just in time pick up Maura before Sgt CS gets to the scene.
This would also explain the acceleration and subsequent thud heards by Mr & Mrs W-n at the Weathered Barn. The acceleration sound may have been from the car/truck towing Maura´s Saturn and the thud the noise of the impact when the Saturn hit the snowbank.
And yes, one is also using the "Neutral" position when a car is being manually pushed or towed out of a ditch or snowbank or whatever.
IIRC, I also read on this forum that the floor mats of Maura´s Saturn had marks on them suggesting that they had been used as a means of getting the car out of a ditch or a snowbank.
This would have been more like it.........
Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Just an after-thought:
I´m seriously beginning to think that it could well have been Maura making that unexplained call to Billy R on the Wednesday (11th February).
Even if it were indeed Maura who made that call, that only takes us that far, since apparently it was never possible to trace the geographical location of that call.
Yet another thing which is bothering me:
If the petrol gauge of Maura´s Saturn was actually showing the tank to be nearly full after the car had been towed away to Lavoie´s (is this a FACT? Anybody knows?), then Maura must presumably have filled the car up somewhere in the vicinity of Swiftwater, probably in the Wells River,VT or Woodsville, NH area.
If so, this might indicated two things:
1. If Maura spent a considerable amount of money filling the car up in the Wells River/Woodsville area, then she must have had a good reason for doing so, i.e. planning quite a long journey ahead.
A full tank would have taken her and the Saturn well into Maine or to the far north of NH considering the fairly modest fuel consumption of a Saturn.
2. The petrol gauge of the Saturn was faulty and there was much less petrol in the tank than indicated by the gauge. This is a very common fault in many cars, so wouldn´t be at all unusual.
Even the commercials were not lost on us.....
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