Where is MAURA MURRAY

hi paris and quija and all.it was reported here by the cottage hospital employee that they saw sgt Smiths vehicle going toward the saturn at 7 10pm.when this witness passed the saturn less than 2 minutes later sgtSmiths vehicle was there.this would be around 7.12 pm this was 13 minutes before the Westmans called 911.lets say this was 7.13pm.SgtSmith wrote on the report that he arrived at 7,45 pm. i am only posting what i have read here.it is not whhat i think it was reported here by a witness .i really do not think Maura was ever at the weathered barn but someone got stuck there in her car by accident.i am still wondering if they were supposed to be further west,maybe at the stage stop store and that is why sgtSmiths vehicle was seen going that way and then seen less than 2 minutes later passing the witness and then a 3rd. time with the saturn.was the strange route toward 110 and then reversing back to the barn just to show blue light west of french pond.option b is the facts we have are not facts.take care philip

Before I go for the day, thank you Firecat for the dvd on the way.
Elsewhere, that's got to be especially hard to have spoken with Brianna, she was so sweet and kind, young, a whole life ahead of her.
Whiston, you keep pecking away, this is really a mind blower. It's taken so long just for simple things to come to light.

Hmmmm.

Benjamin Franklin wrote:

Hmmmm.

Care to elaborate on the thing that made you go hmmm, Ben?

Hello all,

I must confess that I´m finding it increasingly difficult to get to grips with some of the latest facts and theories posted here...
Perhaps I´m just getting thick-headed?

Quite clearly, the timings in the official LE dispatch logs are way off the mark. That goes without saying.
The confusion regarding the various acknowledged and un-acknowledged vehicles is also glaring.

So:
Are we now discounting the previous theory that the Saturn may have been towed from somewhere further west on the 112 to the Weathered Barn curve?
Remember that the Saturn was left there with the automatic gearbox in the "neutral" position, which is at least indicative of the Saturn having been towed there by towing-chain or similar.

Eurobserver wrote:

Hello all,
I must confess that I´m finding it increasingly difficult to get to grips with some of the latest facts and theories posted here...
Perhaps I´m just getting thick-headed?
Quite clearly, the timings in the official LE dispatch logs are way off the mark. That goes without saying.
The confusion regarding the various acknowledged and un-acknowledged vehicles is also glaring.
So:
Are we now discounting the previous theory that the Saturn may have been towed from somewhere further west on the 112 to the Weathered Barn curve?
Remember that the Saturn was left there with the automatic gearbox in the "neutral" position, which is at least indicative of the Saturn having been towed there by towing-chain or similar.

No, not necessarily. What gives you the idea we're moving away from that theory? We're just discussing other stuff.

I finally found my copy of the 31-page Grafton County Sheriff's Department log for the time of Maura's disappearance! Just at a glance today, I see that at 7:27PM the call came in from F. Westmann, and at 7:29 Cecil was dispatched and 5 seconds later en route, and arrived at 7:46PM. This is nothing important... but it does differ from the Accident Report.

I'll share this complete log with anyone who can't find it elsewhere. That would, tho, involve my making copies at Staples or somewhere and mailing them out, since I only have hard copy. If you're interested, let me know and we can figure out a relatively private way to do this (fake email accounts?). I'll be off-line for 2-4 weeks during Part II of fixing up This Rotted House --- but that's not until a week or so from now.

Firecat,

Thanks for your clarification there.

I´m genuinely and sincerely impressed by the ability of so many posters here to keep digging through muddy time-lines and convoluted and more-often-than-not obscure official dispatch papers, etc. You´re all doing a great job!

Just another theory:

Perhaps there were actually two people travelling with Maura from Amherst and up north, using another car/truck in addition to Maura´s Saturn?
Possibly one man and a woman, vaguely resembling Maura but with long, dark hair?

The young woman seen by the SBD at/in the Saturn by the Weathered Barn could have been such a female "helper" from Amherst.

Perhaps Maura might have been reluctant to steer the Saturn while it was being towed from the location of the first accident?
Perhaps her female friend agreed to steer the Saturn, while Maura jumped into the red truck (? driven by her male "helper".

IIRC witness RO stated that the red truck might have had MA plates and that there may have been two people in the truck.

Possible?

To All,

This is a long post, Part 1

I would like an opportunity to respond to several posts below if I may, some of what you will read will be familiar from previous postings both on this site and the MMM site and some of this information you may not have heard before. I will be as clear as possible when stating an opinion and/or scenario.

Sophiebean….post # 4193…you are correct in that the issue with the calling card call was not from the Red Cross (debunked, as you say)

Quija post #4198 references the box of wine found at the scene. After Quija read the “official Accident Report” submitted by the first responding officer (post #4199) realized several discrepancies conflicting/supporting/picking and choosing/ with regard to witness’s statements. The report was in fact written six days after the incident and one would expect the information to be more accurate rather than illusive.

Firecat’s post #201…the vehicle you are referencing I believe was in connection to Breanna Maitland’s disappearance. I was in contact two years ago with two private detectives from up-state NY who were working with her family at the time. We met in Swiftwater for two days and concluded (as have the VTSP/NHSP) the cases were similar but not connected.

Sophiebean (post #4194)… Brianna’s vehicle was actually “backed into” the north side of an abandoned farm building/barn close to the roadway on a straightaway. It was our collective opinion it appeared she was fleeing and deliberately tried to hide from someone chasing her vehicle and slid into the side of the building while backing up. Again, this case was not investigated until a couple of days later,(the patrol officer was going off duty for his weekend and didn’t report it until much later) in fact the PI’s from NY had a set of photographs supplied to them from some tourists passing through the area the next morning who thought it so peculiar they took pictures of the car. Another very interesting case indeed….

Whiston post #4204….the Westmans reported having heard an acceleration THEN the thud and yes, you are exactly correct to wonder about the time sequence of events, it’s very troubling indeed. BTW, we are still uncertain as to whether a receipt for Maura’s purchases was in the vehicle thereby allowing one to comment “…appears that some of the alcohol is missing…”

Paris post #4206…the first “accident”(where we believe the over-hang damage to the hood occurred) in our collective opinion, most likely occurred on Route 112 from where Route 112 starts off Route 302 in Swiftwater and prior to intersection with French Pond Road. This would explain the responding officer (CS) turning and continuing along Goose Lane toward that location then changing directions and heading east on Route 112 to the Weathered Barn location.

To accurately follow along with this reasoning I suggest one needs a good map of this area, a copy of the “Accident Report” and Advocator’s Time-line Chart. BTW, I want to thank Advocator for a fine piece of work in compiling what is “believed to be known”, there are a lot of facts in this document. I will communicate with him/her directly and this document will be updated by it’s originator as he/she sees fit.

Eurobserver post #4216…the Saturn being found with the gearshift in the neutral position aside from its being towed could also be indicative of the shifter being “knocked” out of position (hence the Westmans hearing an acceleration then a thud) or the operator shifted into neutral (rather than into park) to extract the ignition keys and secure the vehicle. When Mr. Murray later started the engine with his separate set of keys, it started right up.

My personal opinion is that the Saturn was turned into Old Peters Road, put into reverse and backed into the snow bank (again accounting for the acceleration and then a thud) and the operator pulled the shift lever into neutral rather than push it up into park. Under this scenario the Westmans would not have see the headlights during this maneuver as they would have shown up Old Peters Road. This is only an assumption based on a belief the Saturn was put at that location.

Please do read and study the accident report very closely as there are many answers to your questions in that one simple document. What’s not in the report answers a few more questions. All the little check-off boxes should be scrutinized as well, they paint a picture as much as the words do.

Whiston’s questioning about the time-line as relating to the chain of events is troubling at best. He is correct that if we go along with the witness leaving work at the Cottage Hospital by way of Goose Lane-to-French Pond Road-to Route 112 East to the Weathered Barn taking place between 7:10-7:15 PM, and seeing the black Bronco (H1) there ahead of him/her we have to conclude #1) That SC was on scene before the Westman’s call to dispatch at 7:26 PM as recorded OR #2) the witness’s time line is incorrect. If we go with #1 scenario we have to now account for the SBD (BA) statements and time line of events and the Westman’s observations from just prior to 7:26 PM through the time the bus driver was present and they stopped watching. Logic would dictate we have to accept #2 scenario that the witness from the hospital mis-stated the times. At any rate, it’s still troubling that it took the officer at least nineteen (19) minutes from dispatch to on-scene response.

Respectfully,

Weeper

To All,

This is a long post, Part 1

I would like an opportunity to respond to several posts below if I may, some of what you will read will be familiar from previous postings both on this site and the MMM site and some of this information you may not have heard before.

Sophiebean….post # 4193…you are correct in that the issue with the calling card call was not from the Red Cross (debunked, as you say)

Quija post #4198 references the box of wine found at the scene. After Quija read the “official Accident Report” submitted by the first responding officer (post #4199) realized several discrepancies conflicting/supporting/picking and choosing/ with regard to witness’s statements. The report was in fact written six days after the incident and one would expect the information to be more accurate rather than illusive.

Firecat’s post #201…the vehicle you are referencing I believe was in connection to Breanna Maitland’s disappearance. I was in contact two years ago with two private detectives from up-state NY who were working with her family at the time. We met in Swiftwater for two days and concluded (as have the VTSP/NHSP) the cases were similar but not connected.

Sophiebean (post #4194)… Brianna’s vehicle was actually “backed into” the north side of an abandoned farm building/barn close to the roadway on a straightaway. It was our collective opinion it appeared she was fleeing and deliberately tried to hide from someone chasing her vehicle and slid into the side of the building while backing up. Again, this case was not investigated until a couple of days later,(the patrol officer was going off duty for his weekend and didn’t report it until much later) in fact the PI’s from NY had a set of photographs supplied to them from some tourists passing through the area the next morning who thought it so peculiar they took pictures of the car. Another very interesting case indeed….

Whiston post #4204….the Westmans reported having heard an acceleration THEN the thud and yes, you are exactly correct to wonder about the time sequence of events, it’s very troubling indeed. BTW, we are still uncertain as to whether a receipt for Maura’s purchases was in the vehicle thereby allowing one to comment “…appears that some of the alcohol is missing…”

Paris post #4206…the first “accident”(where we believe the over-hang damage to the hood occurred) in our collective opinion, most likely occurred on Route 112 from where Route 112 starts off Route 302 in Swiftwater and prior to intersection with French Pond Road. This would explain the responding officer (CS) turning and continuing along Goose Lane toward that location then changing directions and heading east on Route 112 to the Weathered Barn location.
Part 2

For some reason this posted bass-akwards....

Please ignore the second posting of Part 1...

Thank you

Weeper

Must be a time warp here...ignore the double posting please

Quija wrote:

That would, tho, involve my making copies at Staples or somewhere and mailing them out, since I only have hard copy. If you're interested, let me know and we can figure out a relatively private way to do this (fake email accounts?). I'll be off-line for 2-4 weeks during Part II of fixing up This Rotted House --- but that's not until a week or so from now.

can you scan them and just email in a .gif or.jpg format so that it doesn't have to be converted to MSWord or otherwise? If not I can.

It DOES sound like CS, if he was driving the black Bronco - though we don't seem to know that for a fact - was on the scene BEFORE it was called in, perhaps a lot before it was called in.

I'm also still trying to make sense of "left in a private vehicle."

Hello all,

Just a few thoughts:

If we assume that Maura´s Saturn was "hijacked" and for some reason driven or towed to the Weathered Barn curve from a point further west on Rte 112:

1. Why did the "hijacker(s)" on purpose plant the car on Rte 112 by the Weathered Barn curve in the immediate vicinity of several houses and on a road with a fair amount of traffic?

Why not choose any minor back road in the immediate area with hardly any traffic whatsoever and devoid of houses?

Even taking the matter of jurisdiction into consideration, there must surely be a considerable number of such minor back roads within the town of Haverhill south of rte 112.

The risk of being apprehended must have been vastly greater if planting the Saturn on the 112, the car being seen from at least two houses nearby.

2. Why should the "hijacker(s)" even bother to lock the Saturn when fleeing the scene. Why not just leave the keys in the ignition?
It doesn´t make any sense to me.

And lastly a question to you all:

Where was the book "Not without Peril" found in the Saturn?
Was it lying on the front passenger seat, in the rear seat, on the floor or in a bag or similar?

I think that the answer to that question just possibly may be important.

Thanks!

hi Euro the towing of the saturn is still an option ,we dont' know yet but we will.i am guessing the saturn got stuck there by accident.the accident report is wrong according to the grafton county log.the log is available , but just one page of course at the hanson express site .i will call woodsville and see where i can get a opy of page 17 and 19.take care we are very close. philip

elsewherebriefly wrote:

Lady Gray,
I remembered discussing this back when the investigation started. Not sure if you remember but thought I'd provide a link as to the outcome of the federal investigation.
http://charlotte.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/2008/ce0...

Thank you for updating me, I appreciate it. I sure wish..........

hi all.IF the reciept from the liquor store is missing as is posted who and how did they know what was missing fromthe car.even more important the liquor store reciept may have been the only thing that tied the car to being in Amherst on feb 09 2004.take care philip

hi all .why have we not yet seen the video from Amherst both from the liquor store and the ATM.Amherst and Mauras prior life still has a lot to tell.take care philip