Where is MAURA MURRAY

Still shaking my head over that short Accident Report... SOOOO... it was too difficult to choose what the road alignment was? Just a "?" was noted in THAT box. Well, that was a toughie, 8 choices. Other Roadway Features wasn't answered either (just a "?")--- uh, was it a RR crossing????? Under construction? But yet the Road Conditions (bumps, etc.) were called "NORMAL". You'd almost think the person filling this out wasn't even at the scene, or in the week that had passed, hadn't gone back to see if there had been any road maintenance or construction going on --- or a new set of RR tracks put down... My latest impression isn't just that things might have been hidden, BUT THAT THIS WAS DEALT WITH WITHOUT MUCH CARE AT ALL, JUST CHECK SOME BOXES, SKIP WHATEVER'S A BOTHER TO THINK ABOUT, JUST SIGN IT AND "SHIP IT". IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS DONE AS IF THERE WASN'T A GIRL LOST HERE, for almost a week. I thought it might've been partially filled out by someone else because the "2" (in "R112-WILD AMMONOOSUC RD" on the sketch was a different kind of "2" than in the accident report's tiny block where it asked "Age". I've gotta keep referring back to the online version so I can't be more specific

In blocks 26 and 30 of the official police accident report it is noted that there was ONE person in the vehicle. But the police officer at the scene saw ZERO people, ZERO drivers, ZERO passengers and had witnesses telling him variously, one girl, one man smoking a cigarette, etc. This seems to have been treated so thoughtlessly that it's nauseating. However, I have nothing to compare this report to so maybe it's just general sloppiness.

Ben Franklin wrote:

<quoted text>
Tha's a good question - but you see, that's not on the hidden agenda. So you'll be ignored or attacked for asking. If its a good, valid observation - you'll get a backhanded compliment or baseless complaint raised against you.
BVut if you play along like Eurobserver - you'll do alright.

You are learning BF. There are mostly the same posters that were on the MMM forum and it has turned into exactly the same thing.

I still would like to hear anyone respond to Jefferson’s post #3967. I don't even see him post anymore just like some others. I think that there are some interesting points he makes but it doesn't fit in with what everyone wants to believe on this forum so it is ignored.

I guess it couldn’t just be that Maura knocked the shifter into neutral during the crash. After doing that she couldn’t restart the car because of the neutral safety switch so she abandoned the car thinking it wasn’t working. Nope, that is too straightforward. The group NEEDS to find a more convoluted theory with bad guys and girls too. The cops need to be rogue and practically the whole town needs to be in on an abduction. Isn’t it more interesting than using the known facts and realizing that until something else turns this is going nowhere. It is far more fun to accuse locals, make fun of a small police force and try to appear that you are doing something important by swinging your arms around wildly telling everyone about all the work you are doing. There are a great many people on this forum with lots of free time. They spend that time thinking up movie plots instead of actually looking at the facts, the few that are known. While I don’t agree with Weeper at least he has the courtesy to admit that his theory is just that a theory but everyone else sets it in stone no one else need apply.

So most everyone here agrees that if the goal was to kidnap and kill a pretty young coed the plan would also include driving her car miles to a different spot for some reason. So, you have accomplished your goal, getting the girl and you are now going to risk being caught driving her damaged car, tying you to her if you are pulled over. Yeah, I’d do that. I want to risk being caught driving the car of a missing coed. Excellent plan. I also want to include at least one more person in this caper because after I drop the car off I have to get back right? And everyone knows the more people you include in a caper like this the more likely it stays secret.

WOW! Just freaking WOW! This is apparently sport for most of you.

Shack,

Thanks for your info regarding the book in Maura´s car.

FireCat,

Yes, you could say that I´m trying to think of a good reason for that book to be lying about either on the passenger seat or on the console (as according to Shack´s info here).

It seems highly unlikely that Maura would have had any use for the book while she was presumably busy driving her car up north from Amherst. It´s not as if the book contained any road maps, etc.

Being such a very neat-minded young lady it would seem much more likely for her to put the book in a bag or similar.

Two possible conclusions here:

1. Somebody else was with Maura in the Saturn, either driving it or as a passenger. Thus the book lying about in the way it did (provided of course that the book was found as indicated by Shack), actually being read by someone.

2. The book was placed in the front of the car by someone for some reason as a kind of "prop", perhaps as a pointer in the direction of a suicide theory.
The apparent fact that the bookmark (IIRC from earlier posts here and on the ex-MMM forum) was left at a page indicating the beginning of the chapter "A matter of life or death" may of course be a mere coincidence, but if the book was indeed left lying about in the car as a sort of staged "prop", the choice of the bookmarked chapter seems to me to be somewhat intentional.

Oh, and I can already sense that some posters here may already be deeming this post "melodramatic" and "conspiratorially minded", etc, etc.
So it may perhaps seem to some, but I feel more certain than ever that this case is not just only heartbreakingly sad and tragic, but also highly complex and convoluted.
I feel rather certain that Maura likely was fleeing from something or someone, that she was scared and/or deeply worried about something or someone and that her sudden departure from Amherst was just that: a flight.
Why? Perhaps Whiston´s digging will uncover a possible answer in due course.

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
I still would like to hear anyone respond to Jefferson’s post #3967.

That post made sense. That post was like my first impression.

Then there came... the discussions about the CW having an abusive past and not being a nice guy, probably being near the snowbank at the right time and denying seeing anything; Maura was upbeat, wasn't being treated for any emotional or mental problems and would never take her own life; Atwood maybe altering his story to appear more important and LE-like; LE's disinterest and mantra of Maura's situation being a DUI-leaving-the-scene suicide; descriptions of all the homicides in the area over the last 15 years; number of predators/drug addicts in the area, etc. How can we know? Mostly likely IS going with simplest explanation. Then we're told that not EVERY case turns out to be the "most likely" event.

The PIs' group consensus made me think that if anyone had experience with this, it's them. And if they say something's a fact, why shouldn't we believe them? Heh heh --- They're much MORE LIKELY to be right than we are!

RE: Jefferson's post #3967: Most people I know, after reading The Hanson Express series about Maura, think that it was Maura in the Saturn, that she was depressed, that she was drinking, that she skidded off the road twice, and that she had been behaving in a way that made them think she took her own life. That was my strong impression the few times I was up there. That's why several of us hoped (repeating) that the thickest, most impenetrable brush N-NW behind Atwood's house should be searched or researched until hitting another road or home.

20-20 made me feel Maura was very in love with Billy and I dropped any possibility of "another guy" in her life. If she "flirted after a couple of drinks" --- well, who doesn't?????

But yesterday a friend asked, "What if Maura knew Billy was the only guy for her, she was in love with him, but since she had left West Point, she'd feel... uncomfortable... as an Army wife. For whatever reason(s) she left West Point, there'd be an element of not belonging or a reminder of something she didn't complete like Billy and Julie had..." He continued, "What if Maura knew Billy was the man for her, yet she knew she couldn't marry him and be a military wife, then... she had nothing, no choice, confusion, depression, and probably took her own life."

I'm curious to hear feedback.

If "suicide" was intent.....bringing changes of clothing,shoes, deodorant, tooth whitener,
jewelry, birth control pills ..etc would not be necessary.
If "running away" was intent...the above items would not have been left behind.

Maura did not put the above items in her car with intent to abandon them.
This is not intrigue.....

Hello Shack,

I agree with what you´re saying in your post 4257,
especially regarding the suicide theory.
Extremely unlikely that Maura would have brought the things you mention if she had a suicidal intent when setting out from Amherst.

When it comes to the "running away" theory, I´m slightly less certain.
If something unexpected suddently happened and time for some reason was at a premium, it is not totally unthinkable that Maura may have had no choice but to leave some things behind which she would otherwise never have parted from.

IMHO.

Ben Franklin said:
Most likely, the report ended up like it did just because whoever filled it out made mistakes. Bad notes, bad memory. Typo.

I'm sorry to come across as crude but ARE YOU KIDDING? I write reports as a victims services volunteer for our Sheriff's Department. We've had training just for this aspect.

Your reports have to be able to stand up in a court of law. There isn't any room for error, bad memory.

A law enforcement officer should be capable of writing a accurate report. We've had rookies not make it to the street because they CAN'T write a legible report that makes sense. They fail on that alone.

Again, there isn't any room for error or bad memory. Unless it's intentional. With the intent to deceive. And then it's termed fraudulent not bad memory or error.

Ben Franklin wrote:
And - what person that drives their car around makes a note of the time every time they were passed - and later remember the make and model unless something unusual happened.

Mr. Franklin, you just answered your own question. The answer is in the last 4 words of your sentence.

Grasping at weak straws we are..........

Shack wrote:

If "suicide" was intent.....bringing changes of clothing,shoes, deodorant, tooth whitener,
jewelry, birth control pills ..etc would not be necessary.

At that age there are times one runs from a situation but has no definite intent yet. It's half-formed, open to changes pending mood swings. Maura may not have left Amherst with a plan to end her life, so she operated by habit and grabbed her usual stuff and left it open-ended. Come on, we've all slammed out of somewhere without a plan in mind or a plan in place. Being "down", maybe drinking... two skid-outs... a school-bus driver who looks at us as though we're lying through our teeth... a (possible) DUI pending and... well, people's moods can really take a dip. Look back at this good kid's judgment changing over the last week or so at school.

Lady Gray wrote:

Ben Franklin wrote:
And - what person that drives their car around makes a note of the time every time they were passed - and later remember the make and model unless something unusual happened.

I agree that after the event people might forget how long they spent saying goodnight to co-workers, sat in their car organizing their purse or coupons, making a phone call, or something else before leaving. What they say is just their best guess and totally human.

Quija wrote:

<quoted text>But yesterday a friend asked, "What if Maura knew Billy was the only guy for her, she was in love with him, but since she had left West Point, she'd feel... uncomfortable... as an Army wife. For whatever reason(s) she left West Point, there'd be an element of not belonging or a reminder of something she didn't complete like Billy and Julie had..." He continued, "What if Maura knew Billy was the man for her, yet she knew she couldn't marry him and be a military wife, then... she had nothing, no choice, confusion, depression, and probably took her own life."
I'm curious to hear feedback.

Military life for someone like Maura would have sucked. Especially overseas. Her chosen career could have also been a miserable existence because of the military connection. Many, many marriages don't survive military life. Especially on a Lieutenants’ or even a Captains pay. Everything that would have been done from moving around the world every 3 or 4 years to not having contact with people that even speak English to not being able to afford anything off of the post, to not having any real support network from family, to not even possibly seeing your husband for weeks or even months on end makes those first years as a married military wife unbelievably miserable. I saw many marriages fail because of the stress of military life. I don’t know that she took her life but looking at what a military wife’s life would have been like would have probably been a real eye opener for her.

Bill

Lady Gray wrote:

Ben Franklin wrote:
And - what person that drives their car around makes a note of the time every time they were passed - and later remember the make and model

I can think of one type of person who unconsciously does that at all times, because he's trained that way.

A police officer.

You asked.

In regards to Ouija's last post, what if she didn't intend to committ suicide but want to be away from the car long enough to sober up in case the police would make her take a breathalizer?(any college kid who just wreck their Dad's car would be panicking about a second accident, & potential DUI) So she grabs her money and a few other things, the rest of liquor because she doesn't want too much in the car and leaves the wine because it is broken already (blame it on the accident). She takes off down the road. She not worry about the elements or time of evening because she's athletic, strong and slightly drunk (false courage). She either hides in the woods and falls victim to the elements or when eventually returning to the car is perhaps abducted.
I don't go for the police cover up. too complicated, too many people would have to be in on it

Lady Gray wrote:

... At her post #3999 ...The BOLO issued immediately after the vehicle was discovered was for a Female about 5‘7. That’s all the descriptors given. And, again, BOLO was issued only to area Fire units.(have you ever heard of a fire truck patroling and looking for individuals?)

Somewhere in my notes (and good grief, don't ask me where)... I am sure I have something about there having been some type of volunteer fire department meeting the night of Feb. 9, 2004 and that the initial BOLO going out to fire department was maybe because all those volunteers would have been heading home at right around that same time.

I agree that it would not make sense to notify the fire department if we are just talking about a fire truck or two, but it puts a new face on it to me if we are talking a bunch of volunteers who would be on the roads in the area and could be keeping a look out for a young woman walking on the road. And I would assume that the fire department there WOULD be a volunteer department, it's like that in most smaller towns and urban areas.

Could someone local talk to the area fire department and verify if there was some kind of meeting that night? Hopefully they keep some kind of record. Would help to nail down source and would sure answer this particular question.

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>I am sure I have something about there having been some type of volunteer fire department meeting the night of Feb. 9, 2004 and that the initial BOLO going out to fire department was maybe because all those volunteers would have been heading home at right around that same time.
I agree that it would not make sense to notify the fire department if we are just talking about a fire truck or two, but it puts a new face on it to me if we are talking a bunch of volunteers who would be on the roads in the area and could be keeping a look out for a young woman walking on the road. And I would assume that the fire department there WOULD be a volunteer department, it's like that in most smaller towns and urban areas.

It always made sense to give the BOLO to fire and ems and just as always too much has been made of this. The police in the area already knew about Maura likely from their briefings and radio traffic if nothing else. The most likely thing that could have happened and something that would have to be watched out for would be a medical call coming in considering her accident and police would not be aware that Maura had been located. Don’t forget, the worst case scenario in most of these situations is that she would have been on foot. That would have only involved the local area. If she had gotten a ride as was suspected since she wasn’t located in the initial search the most likely occurrence was she made it to someplace and was warm and happy. The first thing that goes through rescues mind is not, oh no another one kidnapped. And I promise you it never will be.

It is almost certainly a volunteer service. The only question is if it is 24/7/365 volunteer or if there is a full time paid day staff and volunteer for nights and weekends? I suspect that it is 24/7/365 volunteer but don’t know that for sure. It may also be a split service for ambulance and fire. Fire may be certified first responders though as well as the police and dispatched for medicals also. There are many ways this can work.

Bill

Lady Gray wrote:

Ben Franklin said:
Most likely, the report ended up like it did just because whoever filled it out made mistakes. Bad notes, bad memory. Typo.
I'm sorry to come across as crude but ARE YOU KIDDING? I write reports as a victims services volunteer for our Sheriff's Department. We've had training just for this aspect.
Your reports have to be able to stand up in a court of law. There isn't any room for error, bad memory.
A law enforcement officer should be capable of writing a accurate report. We've had rookies not make it to the street because they CAN'T write a legible report that makes sense. They fail on that alone.
Again, there isn't any room for error or bad memory. Unless it's intentional. With the intent to deceive. And then it's termed fraudulent not bad memory or error.

I think it would be helpful if you described the process of what goes on in a little detail.

Obviously - we'll keep in mind that the system could work differently in other places.

I could imagine several ways it could work. It could be as simple as filling out a paper report based on memory. Perhaps it involves some access to computerized records - dispatch communications, GPS, etc.

Tell us what is typical.

Hello All,

Advocator Post #4266...to answer your question about a volunteer fire depertment meeting on the evening of 2-9-04 there was in fact a meeting and training session at the firehouse that evening. In fact, there were about 7-9 firefighters who responded (with and on one fire truck) to the incident at the Weathered Barn soon after Sgt. Smith responded. Good point Advocator and Bill, that it makes perfect sense to send a BOLO out to the volunteers over thier CB's (and to all the citizens who listen in on these calls as well), more eyes on the road looking for a wandering female. Which brings me to remark on the previous posts that suggest the police department (officers) in Haverhill were in any way connected to Maura's disappearence and/or abduction. At no time or in any way have I or any member of our PI Team ever suggested a "rouge cop or cop wanna-be" was behind this crime. The most that was suggested was that the incident was not handled properly from the start. The physical condition of the Saturn would have alerted any competently trained police officer to look for awing(skid marks) and debris on the roadway in the immediate area, there wasn't any at that location. To this day the Media and "most people" think the car skidded off the road into the snow bank and hit a tree even knowing the Saturn was facing away from the snow bank and trees. In fact, the actual location of the Saturn was not at the tree with the "blue bow" on it, the location was another one hundred feet east of that tree.

Hope this eases some minds that we (the PI Team)are not putting this crime/disappearence on the citizens or officials in the town of Haverhill.

Respectfully,

Weeper

Quija, you have found a number of apparent inconsistencies in the accident report. Could I be so bold as to ask you to list them all (and where they appear in the report) in one posting?

I realize that is asking a lot, but you have made some astute observations as to the differences, and I think it would be important to list them. Thing is someone mentioned human error…certainly possible, but there seem to be so many and as Firecat points out, this report was apparently filled out after it was realized there could be a problem with a missing person.

whiston wrote:
hi all .why have we not yet seen the video from Amherst both from the liquor store and the ATM.Amherst and Mauras prior life still has a lot to tell.take care philip

Ben Franklin wrote:
Tha's a good question - but you see, that's not on the hidden agenda.

Whose hidden agenda are you talking about??? Seems to me the State of NH has chosen not to show the video(s) for whatever reason. Also, seems to me that the State of Massachusetts did not show a video of Molly Bish until 2006, six years after her disappearance and three years after her remains were found.

Jun 27, 2006 9:08 am US/Eastern

Video Shows Molly Bish Minutes Before Abduction
Poll: Will The Bish Murder Ever Be Solved?
WARREN (CBS4) &#8213; It's now been six years since 16-year-old lifeguard Molly Bish was abudcted from a pond in Warren and killed.

On this anniversary of her disappearance, CBS4 has obtained never before seen video of Bish from that day showing her final minutes with her mother.

"It gives a view of her moments before she disappeared and is murdered," said her mother Magi Bish, who attended a candlelight vigil on the Warren town common Monday night.

The videotape, obtained by CBS4's Kathy Curran, shows a frame by frame snapshot of Molly Bish thirteen minutes before she disappeared from Comins Pond in Warren on the morning of June 27, 2000.

http://wbztv.com/local/worcester/Molly.Bish.M...

Euro I don’t know where anything (other than the box of wine—behind the driver’s seat) in Maura’s car was found, but I have to think that some of the lighter items may well have ‘moved’ after one, possibly two accidents.

Shack I think it was you who mentioned the Caledonian Survey. Don’t think it is available since they lost and then recovered (some of) their archives, but I just looked at the Hanson Express survey:

What do you think really happened to Maura Murray?

She was the victim of foul play
350 - 61.8%

She succumbed to the elements
119 - 21%

There is some other explanation
67 - 11.8%

She committed suicide
18 - 3.2%

Jerry Fletcher wrote:

Quija, you have found a number of apparent inconsistencies in the accident report. Could I be so bold as to ask you to list them all (and where they appear in the report) in one posting?
I realize that is asking a lot, but you have made some astute observations as to the differences, and I think it would be important to list them.

Hey Jerry, first thing in the morning I'll list all the inconsistencies I found (all in one place). Then you guys can add to the list. Over and out.