Where is MAURA MURRAY

I have always wondered why "conduct after acci" is typed in????(in the charge/arrest section)

On the AR "long form" shows McKay at a motel....

correction to my previous post should have read: DL not AR

Eurobserver wrote:

WFT/Bill,
With all due respect, I believe that I´ve never seen any references to any footprints leading from the Saturn beyond the snowbank, neither west nor east.

First, you don’t need to worry about giving due respect. I know little said here even in the heat of the moment is with malice.

Second, you may have caught me in a BS moment. I could have sworn that I remember reading somewhere that CS saw only one set of prints walking away from the vehicle and that was partly the reason to keep Fire/EMS away. To not contaminate the scene with more footprints, but now I can’t find any reference to that in his document. Can anyone tell me if I’m full of crap or they know where the document is that I might have read that? I could have fallen prey to the hundreds of speculations and taken one as fact when its not.

I will continue looking.

Bill

This is just how I feel after 4 1/2 years, confused. There are cicles within circles, within circles. I keep going around and around the bend. I'm open to anything and everything and would just like to see Maura found. I can jump on and off whatever bandwagon going by, but I always come back to the 'accident'.
Police tried looking a little 'for the girl', yes they did. Concerned parents and witnesses did whatever they did for 'Maura" as well.
But why all the stories? I won't try and name them all, I'd just be stirring up dust.
I just wanted to say how glad I am for every sincere point of view and for any and all devotion in regards to Maura's missing. She deserves to be found. Don't you think if a man came to you with a bloody knife and said he thought his brother may have done this to your daughter....well, wouldn't you want to know if it's been ruled out or not? A local guy says he knows what happened to 'that girl' and you can't even get an answer from police? A call and someone sobbing doesn't seem like it ties in at all with someone being in distress? Police said it was static, Billy knows his caller is Maura. Witnesses saw a girl fitting Maura and then they didn't. Did she run off, maybe. Was she taken against her will before, during or after the weathered barn, maybe to all three.
Could that guy be guilty or is it just a mix up with another victim? Starting to get sarcastic so I better go.

Eurobserver wrote:

IIRC the weather conditions at the time were such as to make it impossible for any footprints to be seen on the road surface.
The sniffer dog followed the trace of Maura (?) from the position of the Saturn to a point close to the intersection with Bradley Hill Road, where the trace stopped.
This would, in my mind, indicate that Maura (?) was likely picked up at this point by a vehicle with the red truck seen by witness RO as a possible candidate.

Footprints could have been in the snow. There was trace snow that night. Footprints can also be seen, particularly easy at night, in frost on the ground with a flashlight.

Don’t put a lot of stock in the dogs. Not because they aren’t accurate but because that scent drifts. It would drift in a particularly unpredictable way being swirled by constant traffic going through the area after I think it was a couple of days. I have seen air scent dogs actually track me going off of my actual track because my scent was on the breeze and then turn directly towards me once they were downwind of me. The most I think the dogs show is that Maura was there and then she wasn’t. If that sounds funny it isn’t. It probably means she got into a vehicle and left the area, where she actually did that doesn’t need to be at the site where the dogs lost the scent, especially in this case.

Bill

Atwood said different things --- he pulled up in his bus, but he also "ran home". Any chance he was at the Saturn more than once? First in bus, next on foot? Any chance Maura handed him something --- a piece of paper she wrote a phone number on asking him to call?.... or something i can't think of yet, and that's where the dog scent trail to his driveway area came from?

Hello paris,

I just know how you feel, a kind of mad frustration about seemingly going round in circles...

For what it´s worth, my personal feeling is that Maura desperately needed to get away from something/somebody threatening in Amherst, that she took off from Amherst in the Saturn towards NH (likely with at least one and possibly two "helpers"), that her car ended up in a ditch/snowbank somewhere on the 112 near Swiftwater village (first accident damaging the front of the Saturn), that her car was towed from there by the "helper(s") driving another car/truck, that Maura (or a female "helper") lost control of the Saturn being towed at the Weathered Barn curve, ending up in the snowbank and getting stuck there, and that Maura (or the female "helper") got picked up nearby and continued in the vehicle of the "helper(s)", probably going eastwards on the 112.

Of course, I could be completely wrong about this, but this is currently what I feel might have happened.
I also happen to feel that it could likely have been Maura calling Bill on the Wednesday (11th February).

Even if we were to accept all this as a possible, viable theory (one of many), the question is:
Where to go from here???

Even if Maura did get away from the Weathered Barn curve in another vehicle, where did she go?
I´m at a complete loss here....

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
Which as a practical matter means nothing. There are some Rangers with police powers but they will tell you that they defer investigation of any real crimes to local or usually the state police in the White mountain forest. They don't have any facilities for investigations. I understand it works differently with the National Parks but this is how it works within the National forest.

Well, now I am wondering ... given that this is National Forest, would the FBI have some proper jurisdiction? Was the claimed sighting by CW of a young person along SR 112 some 8 miles further east, in the National Forest? If so, and if the FBI has jurisdiction there, seems to me they would not have to be invited by local police force in order to investigate on a missing person who went missing very near the National Forest and may have been sighted IN the National Forest or may have been sighted heading FOR the National Forest.

Any thoughts on this?

Quija wrote:

Part 3 Accident Report inconsistencies

(DL: After his arrival at the Saturn "H2 REQ ALL FIRE UNITS BOL FOR A FEMALE ABT 507 ON FOOT...

DL: Next day at 12:04pm, Narrative: Needs BOL on Maura Murray...
Narrative: H6: black hair past shoulder length, wearing a dark coat, about 5'5", 120 pounds...

Question about the codes "H2" (requesting BOL) and next day "H6" (needs BOL). If H1 means "Haverhill 1" referring to the black Bronco-style police unit that Sgt. Cecil Smith was driving the night of Feb 9, then do H2 and H6 also refer to Haverhill police units? If they do, does anyone know who they were?

mcsmom wrote:

On the AR "long form" shows McKay at a motel....

Is this THE officer McKay, same-same McKay as the one involved in later Franconia shooting? Did he have some involvement, no matter how minor, in the search for Maura? Don't recall seeing his name actually connected to Maura's case, but I confess I have not paid attention to the Franconia shooting discussions.

Eurobserver wrote:

Even if Maura did get away from the Weathered Barn curve in another vehicle, where did she go?

This is precisely why some knowledge of Maura's interests beyond Billy, running and school, could be very helpful. Young people almost without fail go through stages of wanting to be this or that "when they grow up", and also are often torn among different potential career choices when facing college. Chances are pretty good that Maura did not always want to be in chemical engineering (her study at West Point) or be a nurse ... what other things did she want to be when growing up? And what were her reading interests when she had leisure time, did she have a favorite novelist?

Information like this could prove helpful to figuring out where she might go and what she might be doing in terms of work if in fact she made it away safely from SR 112 and the Saturn, and had the intent (for whatever reason) to stay gone.

Hi Paris, good post. I've been getting sarcastic too and it's mostly frustration, I think. I talked with a friend about Maura today and we got some ideas.

OLD SPECULATION: The Grafton County Sheriff's Log seemed to have been cut and pasted to leave SOMEthing out between 6:08PM and the call for the Saturn in the snowbank at around 7:27PM (JMHO why the log is jumbled, blanked out, and out of order).

NEW (sort of) SPECULATION:

It had to be LE or another official who called in the first accident around 7PM, didn't it?

Did the same officer or another cancel EMS/Fire?

Who saw the driver leave in a POV?

How many (almost a half-hour between accident #1 and #2) other vehicles would have passed the scene? What did they see? For someone to extricate the car, did it take enough time for a few witnesses to pass?

Did LE stop briefly en route to another call, tell the driver (head-in off the road -- first accident) to put a light-colored flag on the back of the car? And to sit tight? And he'd call for help on the road?

But LE wouldn't leave without telling the driver to get OUT of and AWAY from the car because crashed cars just off-road are often hit by another vehicle, right?

You can't tell a girl who is shaken up, and shivering (from her said faulty heater), to stand outside the vehicle in 30 degree temps to wait for a tow truck.

You could call for a tow truck but has anyone seen a record of that? Maybe in the cut-out section of the Grafton Sheriff's Log.

You could tell the girl to get into the official vehicle for safety/warmth. But if LE had that amt. of time available he'd have put his lights on and waited for the tow truck with the driver and vehicle (even tho this accident was not a big deal).

******Did LE come along around 7PM, see the Saturn a ways ahead, off the road, call EMS and Fire, and then witness the girl getting into a POV? Officer took off after the POV, canceling the fire and EMS en route, stating that the driver left in a POV? This sounds "closer" to what might've happened.*******

Did the Saturn get stolen from that spot if LE left the Saturn there, off-road, while in pursuit of the POV?

Man, what happened between 7PM and 7:27? There was a lot of activity going on, wasn't there? None of it in the logs...

Eurobserver wrote:

Where to go from here???
Even if Maura did get away from the Weathered Barn curve in another vehicle, where did she go?
I´m at a complete loss here....

The problem I have with the helper theory is that why has neither of them have ever come forward. Why wouldn’t these helpers come forward if they exist? If you don’t believe the same fate befell the helpers that befell Maura than they are probably around so why not come forward. They must have been at least an acquaintance of Maura if not actual friends. Unless they are co-conspirators in her abduction? Is that the theory? I guess that is possible but nothing on the atm or other video appears to bear that out that we are aware of. Does anything in the car suggest that another occupant was in the car? Did anyone leave anything behind in the race to get away from the car that suggests that? Was there room for a third person in the back seat the way the car was packed? I would think that if a video showed another person interacting with Maura that person would have been checked out. Wouldn’t the reward that was offered been incentive to squeal. Unless no one knows anything. I don’t know the answers to these questions so I am asking them.

We then get to how did Maura make the phone call 2 days later. I certainly don’t know if it was her but Billy is convinced which puts her 2 days away from Haverhill. I guess one can go with the sadistic dungeon master theory but it sounds a little movie-ish to me. If it was here and she wasn’t being held captive it would stand to reason that she was 2 days away from Haverhill which could put her just about anywhere and if she got that far how could we know where she really decided to go? Now I don’t believe that it was her but it would be hard to argue the point with Bill. I would be interested in how many times he has heard Maura sobbing like that making him so sure of his ID and when was the last time.

You are getting closer to what is really pertinent as to how to continue Eurobserver. What USEFUL things have these people been doing for the last 4 years? Good question. Either she is dead in which case nothing is going to happen until she turns up probably by accident. If only to find out, if possible, if it was suicide, murder or accidental death. Or she is dead and someone says something that leads to her body so an investigation can continue assuming someone actually knows something. Or she is alive and missing of her own accord in which case no crime of any kind has occurred other than fleeing the scene of an accident and possible drunk driving so it really isn’t anyone’s business. Or she is alive and still captive and again until something turns up there is little that will be discovered. So in none of the scenarios that I see is rehashing of the know items for another four years going to lead anywhere.

Flogging the few known facts seems to make little sense except as I have said before as sport. Of course it’s always fun to make sport of professionals especially when they can’t answer back. And I am not talking about you. I mean really, if you are reasonably intelligent and haven’t been able to figure it out in four years maybe it isn’t going to be figured out until more information comes out. Think about it. You have 5 pieces of known information, as a number, which gives 20 permutations. Most have gone through all 20 possibilities several times but now they are forced into making stuff up to provide more sport to give more possibilities. Not the way people who are looking for the truth work. Sometimes all the pieces to the puzzle are not available.

Oops, more rambling on my part.

Bill

I don't know if anyone has read the southshore express articles but they are pretty interesting- they were posted a year ago June 2007. I am new so I have no clue if they were posted before on this forum. I saw the news about Maura for the first time on 20/20 and was very curious about what had happened to her. So I started t investigate and there are so many articles about her disappearance. I found the southshore express ones to be the most relevant. They are detailed descriptions of what happened before, during and after the accident. There are 5 long articles and they discuss everything from why she left Umass, why her car was probably involved in a separate accident prior to where it was found, any sightings (read everything under the pictures), what was found in the A-frame house and more...I don't know after reading so many different articles, these provided me with the most updated, significant information. Here is the link to the first article called "Maura Murray is Missing Part I: The Departure" and the story continues for 4 parts...

http://southshorexpress.net/content/view/48/1...

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>
Is this THE officer McKay, same-same McKay as the one involved in later Franconia shooting? Did he have some involvement, no matter how minor, in the search for Maura? Don't recall seeing his name actually connected to Maura's case, but I confess I have not paid attention to the Franconia shooting discussions.

Yes, it's the same McKay. His full legal name is Norman Bruce McKay. I believe on the dispatch report it says Norman McKay but there are one in the same. Report also says he's at the hotel for an unknown reason.

As far as involvement in the search for Maura, who knows?

Oops, should say they are one in the same.

Someone asked about "H2." H2 is Sgt Smith, primary officer on scene. H6 is another officer on duty that night.

H1 on the vehicle. That's the vehicle ID number.

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
Clearly they must be dating.
And yes, that is a joke. As LG pointed out its RUMOR.

Hehehe, that's a funny!!:o)

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, now I am wondering ... given that this is National Forest, would the FBI have some proper jurisdiction? Was the claimed sighting by CW of a young person along SR 112 some 8 miles further east, in the National Forest? If so, and if the FBI has jurisdiction there, seems to me they would not have to be invited by local police force in order to investigate on a missing person who went missing very near the National Forest and may have been sighted IN the National Forest or may have been sighted heading FOR the National Forest.
Any thoughts on this?

Hello Advocator,

Interesting point of yours.
As far as I recall from previous information the purported sighting by CW was pinpointed to somewhere close to either of the two nearby intersection of NH State Routes 112 and 116 near Benton.
As far as I´m aware the approximate location of the disputed sighting by CW would most likely be within the White Montains National Forest boundaries.
Since the supposed sighting by CW became known so late, it is doubtful whether much active investigative work was ever done, but I may well be wrong here...

Advocator wrote:
"Well, now I am wondering ... given that this is National Forest, would the FBI have some proper jurisdiction? Was the claimed sighting by CW of a young person along SR 112 some 8 miles further east, in the National Forest? If so, and if the FBI has jurisdiction there, seems to me they would not have to be invited by local police force in order to investigate on a missing person who went missing very near the National Forest and may have been sighted IN the National Forest or may have been sighted heading FOR the National Forest.
Any thoughts on this?"

A couple of things, Advocator.
First, CW's "belated" report of seeing a "young person moving hurriedly/furtively" was 4-5 miles east, not 8. I think that 8 miles is pretty close to Lost River.
I also tend to think "4-5 miles" was stated merely to indicate/focus attention "NOT within 1-3 miles."

The WB corner is a a good 4+ miles from the White Mtn Natl Forest. FBI does not have jurisdiction outside the WMNF, and the WB corner is - just checked this - in Haverhill. It's Bath JUST barely on either side of the WB.
It is my opinion that the placement of the car is significant in terms of jurisdiction - someone wanted it to be either IN Haverhill or NOT in Bath, and definitely not in WMNF.
Between Haverhill, Bath/Woodsville, Landaff, Easton, Benton etc it gets pretty complicated!

I just read that when a police officer writes a report (as LG and others correctly point out, a binding legal document), "style" to the extent of omissions, crossings-out, rewritings, "corrections" after the fact are to be EXPECTED and don't need to be explained???

I'm sorry, what???

How would you feel if, God forbid, you or someone you love were a victim of a crime which was unsolved because of "inconsistencies" in the police report?
Well, I know for a fact that I would be beyond furious. Would I take every legal option available to me? You bet.
Was Pamela Webb's family "wrong" to sue the state of Maine and MSP?

Apparently my understanding of law and order / "protect and serve" is a bit different than some here.