Where is MAURA MURRAY

Weeper,

May I ask you whether there is any basis whatsoever for the unconfirmed rumours provided by a previous poster here (Moses) a few days ago, regarding a supposed search for Maura in the Glencliff/Rte 118 area?

Thank you.

Euro

WTF Post #4431
Bill,

During my younger years as a patrol office I did have similar situations of “walk-away” accidents (though I was employed by a large Metropolitan Police Department) and we generally had our duty sergeant called to the scene, leaving the decision to the more experienced officer. In Maura’s situation, Bill Sergeant Smith was the second in command at the Haverhill Police Department. We have to assume he was trained to be observant and base his decisions on whatever evidence is present at all scenes he comes across. Had I arrived at that scene I would have made some remarkable similar assumptions as had Sgt. Smith with respect to speaking with those witnesses (the Westmans and Mr. Atwood) who were close to or on scene, and with respect to a casual inspection of the vehicle from outside the locked doors of the contents within. The major problem I have was with the external damage to the vehicle, the positioning of the vehicle and the lack of evidence in the roadway to support the accident occurred at that location. If Sgt. Smith said there were no signs of foul play I have to take this to mean he didn’t see anything unusual about the scene in general. This assumption is very disturbing to me if I am to credit the officer with being knowledgeable of accident scenes and having “experienced judgment”. If say for instance, it was a young officer just on the force for three months came to these conclusions I would chalk it up to ignorance, but don’t we all expect more from an experienced police sergeant? I think there were a lot of activities going on that Monday evening (what they all were I couldn’t begin to guess) and I don’t think the police were prepared for some of those activities. Could Sgt. Smith have done things differently? I don’t know, I wasn’t there and I’m not going to “armchair” what could/should have been done. I will credit the Haverhill Police Department for having done some things to locate the operator of that Saturn, unlike the officer in Brianna Maitland’s (sp) abandoned vehicle (stuck in the side of a barn building) who decided to take care of “business” when he returned from his weekend off. Some officers are more proactive than others, some are just plain lazy and others are just plain mean. I am not going to beat up the police for what they did or didn’t do, nor am I going to tow the company line and agree with everything they do. The police are here to serve and protect the citizens but as I was told by the owner of the Stage Stop Store three years ago “We are our first line of defense up here, until the police arrive.” And she is 100% correct in that advice. Way back in the mid-seventies (that’s when I was a young police officer) the EMT service was part of the police department, I first worked on the “meat-wagon”(a gum-balled station wagon with a portable stretcher) as a medic-police officer and we had many “walk-away” accidents where most often they were intoxicated or the vehicle came back as stolen. On several of those occasions the person was later found falling into a pond and drowning, stumbling into on-coming traffic and getting hit or passed out in a ditch down the road. Any of these things could have happened to Maura in the early days….but they didn’t, as we now know. Hope this clears up a few questions you may have had.

Euro...#4432 Post

Unfortunatly Euro, I can not respond to any inquiry as to where or when searches were conducted or will be conducted on this or any "public" forum. I'm sure you understand the reason for this.
Respectfully

Weeper

Like I said I am not going to argue with you and I am definably not going to say I agree with everything that you have written but I do agree with a great deal.

More importantly I am very much impressed with both your candor and demeanor. I appreciate it very much. I still don’t agree with some of your theory. And not that I didn’t respect you before but you have boosted my respect for you considerably in these last several conversations for what that is worth.

Thanks,
Bill

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
Blowing smoke. Really? I guess I’ll have to stop teaching the documentation course that I do. I teach documentation among other things. Of course I’m no lawyer so we have a lawyer on staff that reviews what I teach. We also have a consultant lawyer who specializes in this type of documentation who also reviews what I teach. What you are saying would have a lot more meaning if whenever a document is used in court they don’t first take a deposition from the person who writes the document. And if it is a stand alone document why are the writers always called into court to testify on the stand about the documents. I mean if the document is self explanatory they would never need to do this yet 99% of the time they do. Okay, 100% of the time, I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. If you can ever find two lawyers that look at the same document and they agree on what it says I’ll kiss your xxx. Don’t worry, I won’t be puckering up anytime soon.:)
Bill

Thank goodness for that!!:o)

I have been called to testify in a case where I wrote a report on a case of domestic violence where I responded on behalf of the assaulted partner. Why did they call me? The defense attorney wanted to trip me up, question my writing, etc etc etc. And, you know what, he wouldn't be a good defense attorney if he hadn't called me.

But it was what it was. And the report stood as it was.

Someone very close to me gets called several times a month to the stand on cases where he was the reporting officer. He isn't called to "clarify" his report nor because it's open to interpretation. Trust me on that. He's always amused when he gets subpoenaed but he goes because its all a part of the due process.(Oh by the way, I nor my husband have ever been deposed. It's a waste of time and money to depose because the report is accurate and valid.)

We will agree to disagree on this. Now put those lemons away, no puckering!

elsewherebriefly wrote:

<quoted text>
Hmm, Don't recall.
I do recall that Fred bent over backwards to be helpful/agreeable with LE and not to get in their way during those first days of the investigation.
Are you referencing the 'Squaw Walk' statement that was taken out of context and used against Fred? It's been a long 4+ years and I am still disgusted by the mentality of this. The suicide thoery in general!
Shack was a second home owner in Woodsville while I was a second home owner in Montgomery. Given that Shack was such a great voice for MMM.com and there were so many active members from the immediate NH area I chose to be a more active member on Brianna's site.
I'll admit I missed a bit of reading on the first forum.
I don't recall that other statement about accidents in Amherst. Maybe it as said?
And your point is?

My point is: Sharon is considered to be accurate in what she says. She is quoted in a newspaper article as having stated that about Fred.....was she accurate in saying that? It probably was about the Squaw Walk converstion, but why would that even cross someone's mind as an initial thought? I will look for it later tonight and post it. I'm not sure why you think its being used against Fred--its not like he's been convicted of anything. I too am from that area--although not full time I am still concerned with learning the truth, and not simply what some care to divulge or argue.

I have no hidden agenda, but some people from the MMM forum and even here are sensitive to even LOOKING outside the box...never mind stepping outside it.

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text> Interesting....not sure I've read/heard that prior to this. Has the location of the call been made public?

It was a statement made by Detective Davies of UMass police. I guess it hasn't been discussed in awhile so it's new "news."

I'll look for the article. I don't believe I saved it and I hope it's still there. After 4 1/2 years I'm finding that some media articles are being archived.

Statement regarding source of phone call is towards latter part of the article:

Part 1 of 2

Seeking Outside Help
Family, Friends of Maura Murray Upset With Investigation
HAVERHILL NEW HAMPSHIRE
Family and friends of 21-year-old Maura Murray believe someone picked up the University of Massachusetts at Amherst nursing student after she was involved in a one-car accident in Haverhill, N.H., Feb. 9.
They have hired an outside investigator to find out what happened to her.
It has been more than 2-1/2 weeks since Murray's car failed to negotiate a sharp curve near The Weathered Barn on Route 112 and crashed into a stand of trees about one mile east of Swiftwater.
"With all the attention from the media, if a good person had picked her up, he would have come forward," said Sharon Rausch, mother of Bill Rausch, Murray's boyfriend. "It leads us to believe a bad guy picked her up.
"I just wish they would treat this as a criminal investigation. If they treated it as such, the FBI could become more involved."
The "they" she is referring to is New Hampshire State Police Troop F and the Haverhill Police Department.
Rausch said her son Bill, Murray's father, Fred, and Murray's siblings, Freddy, Kathleen and Julie, are all frustrated with the lack of leads and the apparent belief by law officials that Murray's disappearance is nothing more than a person not wanting anyone to know where she is.
They believe Murray would have fought anyone trying to abduct her.
Family members and friends are also frustrated with conflicting information in Massachusetts and New Hampshire.
Murray, who is 5 feet 7 inches tall, weighs about 120 pounds and has brown hair and blue eyes, was last seen on the UMass campus between 4 and 4:30 p.m. Feb. 9.
Packed Up Her Dorm Room
UMass Police Department Detective Brian Davies said Murray had packed up all her belongings in her dorm room and appeared to be moving out and not returning.
Murray also had notified her professors she was going to be gone for a week because of a family emergency.
A search of Murray's computer by UMass detectives turned up evidence she had conducted a Mapquest search on the Internet for directions to Burlington, Vt.
Murray may had been having trouble with her black 1996 Saturn.
Rausch said she understood the vehicle was not running on all of its cylinders. Believing that, Murray may have left Interstate 91 and exited onto Route 302. She then picked up Route 112 and was headed east when her accident occurred.
She reportedly is familiar with the White Mountains region because of family camping trips.
Accident Scene
After Murray's accident, Butch Atwood said he was returning from taking students skiing when he spotted Murray's car half in the road and half off the road without its flashers on at about 7:30 p.m.
Others near the scene said the car's emergency flashers were on.
Atwood, who drives a First Student school bus, stopped his school bus by the Saturn to see if he could help. Murray was still in her car.
Atwood said she looked to be about 20 and had dark hair.
"I saw no blood," he said. "She was cold and she was shivering. I told her I was going to call the police."

Part 2 of 2:
Murray, according to Atwood, told him not to because she had already called AAA.
Atwood said he invited the woman to wait at his house, nearby, but she declined. He said he then went home to call 911.
After about seven to nine minutes, he looked out and saw a Haverhill police cruiser by the Saturn. A short time later, Haverhill Police Department officer, Sgt. Cecil Smith, notified Atwood that when he arrived at the crash scene, Murray was no longer with her car. Between the time Atwood had left Murray and her vehicle to call for help and the time Smith arrived, Murray had vanished.
State police arrived and checked the woods in the immediate area to see if Murray had gone into the forest. There weren't any tracks.
Atwood said Murray didn't appear to be intoxicated, despite police having said a witness indicated she had appeared to be impaired due to alcohol.
He lamented the fact Murray had not accepted his offer for help. He noted school bus drivers have to go through extensive background checks.
Police Delay Search And Press Release
Family members and friends are upset because police did not issue a press release seeking people's help in locating Murray until two days after the accident.
They also are upset because a thorough search of the area wasn't conducted until two days after the accident.
On Feb. 11, a canine team tracked Murray from the crash site east for about 100 yards.
Troop F Commander Lt. John Scarinza this week said investigators are still treating Murray's disappearance as a missing person investigation.
Scarinza says there is absolutely no evidence foul play has been involved, and that people living in the area of the accident scene have been interviewed several times.
A search of nearby homes by a canine team as well as forensics experts would require a search warrant. And a search warrant would require probable cause.

OOPS - IT'S CONTINUED ON POST BELOW....LONGER THAN I REALIZED..

Rausch said family members were told by at least one person living near the accident site a man was seen in Maura's car after the accident.
Scarinza said investigators are using all the tools they have available to them to locate Murray.
Rausch said despite the appearance of Murray's dorm room, she and family members don't believe that's the case.
She said Murray, on the day of the accident, had picked up insurance forms related to an accident she'd had on Feb. 7. Murray was going to call her father the night of Feb. 9 to have him help her fill out the insurance forms.
Those forms, according to Rausch, were found in Murray's car along with school books, clothing and expensive jewelry.
The insurance forms and school books indicated to Rausch that Murray was going to return to Massachusetts and the university and was planning to study while she was away.
Family members and friends also are upset with no information coming from someone who placed a calling card call to Bill Rausch's cell phone as he was waiting to fly out of Oklahoma Feb. 11 to come search for his girlfriend.
Calling Card Call
Bill Rausch said he heard what he believed to be whimpering and crying.
However, Scarinza said that angle has been eliminated because investigators traced the calling card to the American Red Cross officials who had been attempting to contact Bill Rausch.
There also is the mysterious phone call Murray received while working as a security person at a residence hall at the UMass Amherst campus Feb. 5.
The call reportedly reduced Murray to tears and her supervisor had to take her home because she was so distraught.
**********
UMass Detective Davies said his department has been able to track the phone call.
"We know the location," Davies said. "We have not been able to identify to whom she was speaking. Her friends have no idea who called her."
Sharon Rausch said, "It's obvious to us something has happened to distress her."
**********
She said Murray had called Bill Feb. 8 and was crying because of the previous Saturday accident, though he didn't feel that was it.
"He told her on a scale of 1 to 10, it was only a 3 or 4," she said. "He had to talk to her a long time to calm her down. We are convinced something happened at school and her Amherst friends know."
Rausch speculated that what happened at the college has nothing to do with what happened to Murray after the accident on Route 112 in New Hampshire.
Because family and friends have been frustrated with the way the investigation has been carried out, they have brought in a private investigator to help them find Murray.
R.C. Stevens of PSII Inc., a Northampton, Mass., private investigation agency, is digging into what has happened.
A retired state trooper of 22 years, Stevens' firm handles high profile cases.
"Hopefully, we are going to do something soon," he said.
Murray's family and friends have started a pledge for reward fund. Rausch said donations aren't being accepted. However, pledges for a reward are, in the event information is provided which leads to Murray's return.
People can make pledges to the fund by sending an e-mail to mauramissing@hotmail.com.
Rausch said Duke University Blue Devils basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski and his family have pledged an unspecified amount of money to the reward fund.
Krzyzewski met Murray and Bill Rausch around Thanksgiving time and provided them with basketball tickets during the Christmas holiday basketball tourney.
Anyone who has seen Murray is asked to contact the New Hampshire State Police <PHONE #'S DELETED DUE TO TOPIX'S POLICIES> http://www.caledonianrecord.com/page...tory/0...

Lady Gray wrote:

Part 2 of 2:
Atwood said Murray didn't appear to be intoxicated, despite police having said a witness indicated she had appeared to be impaired due to alcohol.
..

Hello all,

I know that I´ve seen this statement before, but only now came to reflect upon what it really means:
Mr Atwood is saying that Maura (?) didn´t seem to be impaired by alcohol, while police is saying that "a witness" had been indicating the opposite.

The question here is:

Is the witness referred to by police Mr Atwood?
If not, then who could the other witness be, if not Mr Atwood?

The last post of Weeper's didn't really sound like Weeper. Weeper, was it really you? It sounded like someone else.

Eurobserver wrote:

<quoted text>
Hello all,
I know that I´ve seen this statement before, but only now came to reflect upon what it really means:
Mr Atwood is saying that Maura (?) didn´t seem to be impaired by alcohol, while police is saying that "a witness" had been indicating the opposite.
The question here is:
Is the witness referred to by police Mr Atwood?
If not, then who could the other witness be, if not Mr Atwood?

This is the one statement of Atwood's that has never been said otherwise. He has remained consistent and stood by this statement.

hi Lady Grey and all .my point about the phone call that upset Maura was that Mauras supervisor did not here the phone ring or the conversation she may have had.We only know that a call was placed , we still dont know who answered the phone.take care philip

so since noone heard the phone ring, could maura have placed the call?(as opposed to having answered the call)

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
This is the one statement of Atwood's that has never been said otherwise. He has remained consistent and stood by this statement.

Hello Lady Gray,

Thank you for this information.
This poses the question:

Who is the other witness, who is suggesting that the driver of the Saturn (Maura or not)seemed impaired?

Ideas, anybody?

Thanks!

Quija wrote:

The last post of Weeper's didn't really sound like Weeper. Weeper, was it really you? It sounded like someone else.

Quija, if you are refering to my post above, yes it is I. The reason it dosn't sound like me is because I don't normally respond to personal questions and/or voicing "personal opinions". I will refrane from doing so in the future only because you all expect me to respond to "facts" and such...as I promised you I would if I'm allowed to do so. I don't expect you all to agree with me on any number of subjects, nor do I want you to do so. There is a difference between arguing and debating an issue, I am not so closed minded as to not be willing to debate a theroy or scenerio. I don't have all the answers and never said I did, you all have some of the answers and I have been led to different avenues in this investigation by the "brain-pool" in this forum and the MMM forum. Thank you all, LadyGray..I need to reread your posts some more before I can effectviely respond and/or help.

Respectfully,

Weeper

Eurobserver wrote:

<quoted text>
Hello looking4amoose,
Thanks for that information.
Would you consider it likely that the Long Pond Road would have been open for traffic on the 9th/10 February 2004 with a reported (at Benton) snow cover of 7 inches and no precipitation.
Thanks!

Euro Long Pond Road is not maintained for winter travel. It is not plowed in the winter and unless they removed it there was a gate just beyond the second house at the beginning of the road that is closed in the winter.
The only time I saw one end of the road open in the winter is when they were logging and it was used by the logging trucks.

looking4amoose wrote:

so since noone heard the phone ring, could maura have placed the call?(as opposed to having answered the call)

The phone could not make outbound calls, from what I recall. Someone confirm?

I thought the Maura's father said something about not using a psychic in their daughter's disappearance...Found this interesting...anyone know any truth behind this article?
HAVERHILL NEW HAMPSHIRE
Maura Murray's family has enlisted the help of a nationally known psychic profiler to help them find her.
Murray, a 21-year-old University of Massachusetts at Amherst nursing student from Hanson, Mass., has not been seen since she was involved in a one-car accident in Haverhill, N.H. Feb. 9.
Carla Baron of Los Angeles, Calif., has come up with a theory about what happened to Murray the night her car failed to negotiate a sharp left-hand curve after driving by The Weathered Barn.
Baron, along with Maura's father, Fred, want to reserve some of the information so New Hampshire State Police can have a chance to act on it.
She believes Maura was picked up by someone passing through the area where the accident occurred.
"I believe she is no longer with us," Baron said.
She has told Maura's father she believes Maura met with foul play.
Baron, a psychic profiler who helped lead police to finding the body of a man who had committed suicide in a cornfield in the Midwest, has provided Fred Murray with a description of the person who picked her up as well as the type of vehicle.
She has also told him in what kind of an area Maura can be found.
"I have been in touch with Maura," Baron said.
Maura met with foul play the same night as the accident, she said.
What really concerns Murray, is what else Baron has told her. She has told him there is another woman who can be found near Maura who has fallen victim to the same person. And, Baron also told him there have been others.
Murray does not want too many details released right away to the public until the state police have had time to analyze the information and search possible locations.
Baron has been able to obtain somewhat of a description about the man as well as where she can possibly be found by talking twice with Maura's father via the telephone for a total of about 21/2 hours.
"It's called remote viewing," she said, referring to how she obtained the information about what happened to Maura by talking to her father.
Murray said he spoke with Lt. John Scarinza and others from New Hampshire State Police Troop F Friday.
"I gave them my theory that someone picked her up," he said.
He asked them, again, to bring in the FBI and make a direct appeal to the public for any information they may have in helping find his daughter.
"I asked him if he would accept help from a nationally known psychic," Murray said.
He said Scarinza mentioned they had been contacted by other psychics.
"They said they would accept help from a psychic," he said.
Murray is hoping state police and Baron talk soon.
Baron has appeared in episodes of "Psychic Detectives" on Court TV

Baron said she believes Murray hitched a ride with "a clean-cut looking man" in a truck following her car accident the night of Feb. 9. The man then sexually assaulted her and buried her body in a sparsely wooded area that may be a construction site, Baron said.

Her assailant, Baron added, has killed at least one other woman whose body is buried close to Murray's. "He happened to be driving by her. It was an opportunity. That's the thrill for him -- he never knows where the thrill will be," Baron said.

Baron equated her visions to snippets of a movie film, in which she perceives some details but not others. She could not say where Murray was picked up by her assailant, or whether Murray had hitched previous rides.

the truck she mentions...could be the missing mysterious red truck that was seen in the area?