Where is MAURA MURRAY

Right - the comment about passing out flyers to prevent the seacrh for Maura by locals belongs to Wowzer - although I didn't see Wowzer "taking credit" for it.

Sorry, WTF/Bill, for lumping all of that in together. You did not say that you would try to prevent locals from helping.

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
I didn't even finish reading that piece of crap.
There is absolutely no mistake now how you and some others feel about us in NH. You just had to throw one more punch and try to blacken the other eye of NH before leaving didn't you? It doesn't matter if you agree with everything he says or not, you evidently agree with some of it or you would'nt have posted it unless it was just to try to humiliate the NH people once again.
Don't leave on my account. I'm done with people that seem to think we are a lower form of life in NH.
I was silly to think Weeper's kind replies might actually be a beginning to making this forum more fruitful. I was dead wrong!
You are a cruel, rude, obnoxious and mean spirited person to even put something like that on here.
If you think I will prompt locals to contribute here think again. As soon as I'm done with this reply it will be copied along with your article and I will be sure that all my friends and neighbors receive it. I might even go to Shaw's or WalMart and pass it out.
Just LOOK at the article you posted and tell me if it was about you would YOU want to help the out of staters that think that about you????
You and Shack can go into the tent now,giggle at giving us yet another slam and while you're at it give those attack ducks a kick in the a** from me.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to question CW's belated, convenient, confusing/misleading statements in a way that it may not be to question SBD's. Nonetheless, both 'witnesses' have conflicting and icosistent stories. This does not say that they're guilty of anything whatsoever, but it does bear inspection, which is what Advocator and many others are doing.

Regarding the "flexible" time issue - "what difference does it make?" - I just read Norman Maclean's "Young Men and Fire" for the tenth time or so, and he is perfectly respectful toward government agencies but does suggest that "official" reports can be inaccurate, not specific, or contradictory when it appears that the government might have handled something poorly and opened itself up to legal action. I don't think this is irrelevant in this case.

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
Philip, you may have heard June 2004 and June 2005, but as I posted last night, it was June 2004 when NHSP took back the car contents plus the computer.
There is no question as to what year it was.
Don't mean to sound argumentative, I don't understand why you are persisting it's a different year and I want you to understand it was not 2005.
It was June 2004.

Yes yes yes yes yes. I cannot state that enough, that this is my strong strong belief.(I shudder to think what people would think about the books in MY car if god forbid I went missing.)

Oops. I'm a moron. That was supposed to quote the previous post, about Not Without Peril being a comfort book, not necessarily a "clue."

Pardon my migraine.:-o

Hello all,

After considerable deliberation I shall risk saying this, however much of a rapping I might get from some of you here....

I do believe there is a slight tendency here from some quarters to somehow idealise Maura and not to fully take into account the raging hormone storms affecting most young men and women in their early 20´s.
That´s perfectly natural after all, and reconsidering and reshaping one´s personal relationships and decisions fairly frequently is far from uncommon in particular in the age group 18-25.

I think it is perfectly possible that Maura might have fallen head over heels in love with a man while at Amherst. Perhaps it happened in a snap, very suddenly and in such a way that she was completely swept away in a rush of passions, unlike anything that she might have experienced before. Perhaps she was, in a sense, "bewitched" and "intoxicated" by such sensations to the point where her normal, very considerate self was somehow "overtaken".

This doesn´t make Maura "bad" in any sense.
It´s just human behaviour - unfortunate perhaps in the sense that one becomes very self-centred, but still very, very normal, particularly so at the age of 21 or 22.

Remember, she apparently was struggling with much inner turmoil some time before leaving Amherst and seemed on the verge of confiding in her father and Billy R. She may have been feeling deeply distressed by the conflicting loyalties in more ways than one. The pressure in such a situation must have been nearly unbearable.

If a theoretical "secret" boyfriend actually was responsible for the hit-and-run case involving Petrit Vasi while driving Maura´s Saturn, there were several good reasons for Maura to leave Amherst.

1.The Saturn was technically her father´s car, which might have left him in a precarious legal position as the legal owner of the car.

2. Above also goes for Maura, if she had perhaps let a "secret" boyfriend use the Saturn.

3. The "secret" boyfriend might have been risking a long jail-sentence, particularly if Petrit Vasi had died from his severe injuries, which for a long time seemed like a possible outcome.

4. Maura´s relationship with the "secret" boyfriend would have become publicly known as a consequence of all this, with all the fall-out and shame resulting from such a revelation.

I´m also wondering whether the reported state of Maura´s dorm room at UMass Amherst could have been a result of her spending most of her time with a possible "secret" boyfriend in or near Amherst, perhaps not really staying much in her dorm room.

All this would also fit in with the "mystery" voice-mail received by Billy R., which he and his mother are adamant was Maura sobbing, despite LE purporting otherwise.
Understandably, she would have had a strong desire to speak with Billy, but couldn´t in the end face herself doing so, not even as far as leaving a message on his voice-mail.

All this is, of course, pure speculation on my side, and I may certainly be barking up the wrong tree!

Something completely different may well turn out to be the true story, but this theory of mine is the one that I personally would go for right now,
while keeping all other options open in the meantime.

hi Euro and all.you are right. Mauras prior life holds lots of facts that her family and friends have not yet shared.Umass coach Julie Lafreniere told me via email that Maura had never run a race for umass.she was not a star athlete. Her life was far from what was pretended on the last forum.Amherst and her prior life has lots to tell.take care philip

I have seen many competions with Maura, Julie too in various archives all these years. Family said she was a track star and spent time at Westpoint. Well, by the time she got to UMASS which wasn't very long at all, Westpoint became past tense and the running track part remained to be seen. I agree something was going on at the time and if only someone would step up to tell......

Philip, Liz Drewniak remembers one race that Maura ran in Providence at Brown University while at Umass. I thought I had the results bookmarked but apparently not on this computer. It does seem though, that once she left high school, Maura didn't race often, and she also didn't seem to have many friends--though people will comment that she seemed like a nice girl. I was able to contact a few of the other nursing students, and they all remember her but didn't really "know" her.

sophie bean wrote:

Right - the comment about passing out flyers to prevent the seacrh for Maura by locals belongs to Wowzer - although I didn't see Wowzer "taking credit" for it.
Sorry, WTF/Bill, for lumping all of that in together. You did not say that you would try to prevent locals from helping.
<quoted text>

Wowzers been very busy canning veggies and getting things buttoned up for the winter. You know, worthwhile things.
I didn't think "taking credit" was needed for any comments I made as all it takes is to open your eyes and read to know what I said or didn't say.
Don't you feel silly now?
If I knew it was going to get your panties in such a wad I would have dropped everything and came rushing here to "take credit" for my comment.
Sorry for confusing you so.

paris wrote:

I have seen many competions with Maura, Julie too in various archives all these years. Family said she was a track star and spent time at Westpoint. Well, by the time she got to UMASS which wasn't very long at all, Westpoint became past tense and the running track part remained to be seen. I agree something was going on at the time and if only someone would step up to tell......

Did I say this wrong? What I meant was referring to Maura, saying she was a track star, was before UMASS. She ran at UMASS, but did not compete. Is it fair to say she *was * a track star......I tried to give the example that Westpoint would be in the past tense too.
When I say something was going on, well, doesn't it seem like something was going on? Golly, you guys can be tough critics.

Advocator wrote:

Several things, so please bear with me!
Elsewherebriefly -- Thanks much for providing Paris with the line she requested re the Chart :)
Whiston -- you were asking if Billy had Christmas break off re December 2003. My recall from the MMM forum is that yes, he had some leave time that he used during Maura's Christmas break. Per SharonR on MMM, Billy and Maura spent virtually the whole time traveling around to see relatives of her family and his. So much that Maura really didn't get a lot of resting done during the break. Along with the traveling, they also took some time to look at engagement rings, as I recall.
Re what CW could see from his house -- someone correct me if I have this wrong, but based on the maps and photos I've seen of the area from Weathered Barn to intersection of SR 112 and Bradley Hill Road, and with CW's house up Bradley Hill a short distance, it has seemed to me that evergreen trees along the side of SR 112 (on the right or north side of SR 112 if heading west) could have prevented or at least interfered with CW being able to see what was going on at the Saturn's location. Further, if he traveled home via SR 116, then he could have come DOWN Bradley Hill to his home -- he would not have then been approaching the intersection from west on SR 112 where he'd surely have a very clear and direct view of the vehicles and lights at the Saturn. IOW, I think a reasonable case can be made that CW may not have seen the lights, not enough to get his attention, when he was returning home.
.

You are correst Advocator. There are a line of evergreen trees which would interfere with seeing anything going on. Also there is a house next to his and a stand of trees between the two houses that would also block anything going on.
If the curtains were closed I don't see how it is possible for anyone to have seen any action.
You are also correct in thinking he might have taken 116 and Bradley Hill to get home.
112 along the river is to be avoided if possible in the winter as it it a very bumpy ride with the all frost heaves.

Maura had been recruited by many schools to run track and cross country. She competed in Track and Cross Country for both West Point and UMass Amherst until the fall of 2003. Weather was not a consideration for Maura and her love of running. She ran no less than 5-6 miles each day. She was dedicated to daily running in spite of hot or cold temps, rain or snow. Maura routinely ran 5 kilometers in just over 18minutes, and still holds competitive both Track and Cross Country records. Tom Zamagni, one of her soccer and basketball coaches when she was in elementary school,l said that when Maura Murray broke the girl's two-mile track record at Whitman-Hanson High School, she did so by 40 seconds. The record still stands.

As a freshman, she played point guard on the girls' varsity basketball team and was a good softball pitcher. Her father Fred, who coached her in youth sports, said that her best sport was soccer.

Although she later concentrated on track, she could have starred in other sports as well, Zamagni said. "She was incredible — a great athlete," he said.

Maura also loved to camp and hike. Her favorite camping and vacation spot is in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. Her father had been taking her there since she was a small child. Fred, Maura and Billy had spent a vacation together in the White Mountains in July of 2003.

I used to be a runner - but now I'm way out of shape. Anyway - I think Philip is mostly saying that we don't know enough about Maura's past to find out where she might have gone.

But I also get the feeling that he's come to the conclusion - that the information that has arrived to us should not be treated as Bible truth, the reality may be slightly different.

I certainly can't fault the family for being proud of Maura - anyway I don't have her racing record - she was probably at least a good runner / important to the team she was on in high school.

But however well she performed - really has little bearing on solving this - we know the important thing - she competed on a team.

Euro - I'm still with you - I see everything you say as possible. I also think possible the "SB" was a slick con man type - not easy to tell though - and she was lured or romanced.

I won't go so far as to say she was determined to move - but I won't rule it out either - I will say she wanted to leave for at least the time period she stated.

JMO wrote:

<quoted text>
Rest assured, Wowzer, that this forum, and similar blogs, are insignificant in the grander scheme of your community. Neither profoundly positive or negative in their influence beyond a limited sphere of gossip, negativity, and...as previously mentioned...junior high mentality... they serve to feed the nest of busybodies, whackadoodles (term borrowed!), and woo woo artists.
;-)

You are absolutely correct JMO. It is insignificant and that is why instead of wasting my time and printer ink I thought it more worthwhile to do some canning and "getting ready for winter" stuff.
I visited a few friends too in the past few days and they agreed after reading some of the comments that this will be a great form of entertainment when the snow is knee high to a giraffe and we are stuck in the house. They actually weren't aware of this forum but they are now and seemed quite amused at seeing whackadoodles in action although that isn't exactly the word they used.
I have a whole new outlook now.:)

A great form of entertainment huh? If finding out about a nightmare come true in your state, other serious issues like the child killer moving back to your state, inconsistencies and outright lies are entertaining to you then well, enjoy.
As for me, it is rare that I can laugh here. I laugh all day, love my job, my three sons and grandkids, have a 30 by 70 foot garden, friends everywhere and this is the one place I come to where everything is dead serious. Rouge NJ

In all fairness though, we have been wrong from time to time but we admit that and move forward.

Paris the ones that are truly trying to find answers to what happened are not the entertaining ones.I believe you are one of the few here that are trying their best to find the truth.
It is the ones that come here with drama,misinformation,denial,un true "facts", insults and did I say DRAMA.
I believe they are here because it has become a large part of their lives and without a MM forum their lives would be very boring. I have a hard time believing that these people actually want to find real facts and the truth because then there would be no more forum and therefore no more excitement in their lives. They have chased people away on both forums that might have given them some real help in finding out what happened.
The ones that have kept up with the old forum and now this one know that this is true.They have seen the insults and name calling. Now think about why someone would insult the very people that can offer the most help.

hi Paris and all was Mmaura running 5 or6 miles every day before she left.i am wondering if she had time for it or had given it up.i read here that she was injured at some point i willrecheck my dates but i think she ran her last race in october of 2002.1f she was running so close to the time she left was she on the road for meets.take care philip

whiston wrote:

she was not a star athlete. Her life was far from what was pretended on the last forum

With all due respect, I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion, Whiston. One does not set a track record that holds for many years without being a top-notch athlete, for one thing.

I am not holding Maura to an impossible standard; I am a realist and know that Maura was not made of gold. No one is. I am merely wondering how, with the same set of information, you have come to this certain conclusion that is so vastly different from mine.

Wowzer wrote:

Paris the ones that are truly trying to find answers to what happened are not the entertaining ones.I believe you are one of the few here that are trying their best to find the truth.
It is the ones that come here with drama,misinformation,denial,un true "facts", insults and did I say DRAMA.
I believe they are here because it has become a large part of their lives and without a MM forum their lives would be very boring. I have a hard time believing that these people actually want to find real facts and the truth because then there would be no more forum and therefore no more excitement in their lives. They have chased people away on both forums that might have given them some real help in finding out what happened.
The ones that have kept up with the old forum and now this one know that this is true.They have seen the insults and name calling. Now think about why someone would insult the very people that can offer the most help.

As a fairly disinterested observer to all this, I have to say that there is, for the most part, only one group of people throwing insults around. And it ain't the people who were on the old forum.

Just my observation. If you don't agree with it, just look up.