Where is MAURA MURRAY

whiston wrote:

hi Paris and all was Mmaura running 5 or6 miles every day before she left.i am wondering if she had time for it or had given it up.i read here that she was injured at some point i willrecheck my dates but i think she ran her last race in october of 2002.1f she was running so close to the time she left was she on the road for meets.take care philip

I believe she was running, Philip. Of course, I don't have any evidence of this, so we'll have to wait to see what someone with more info says, but I do strongly believe that she was running.

As a runner myself, I understand that running is not a "sport" the way, say, soccer is a sport. Soccer is something that happens in season, or when you can get a bunch of like-minded people together off-season when there's a field or space availabe. When you're a runner, you run the way other people brush their teeth. And that's not much of an exaggeration. It's not something you "make" time for. Most serious runners (as with Maura, I suspect) would think nothing of giving up OTHER things--even that last hour's sleep--to get their run in.

I admit that this can be hard for non-runners to grasp or accept, but it's pretty much the way it is when someone is a serious runner. Five or six miles more than four times a week would indicate that, as would family comments that nothing would stop Maura from her daily run.(and yes, she was likely running as much as possible even if she was injured. Sadly, that doesn't stop us either. ;-))

This does not, however, mean she was running competitively. It does seem unlikely that she would be able to meet the time commitment for that. Team practices--and meets--are hours long and often involve much travel, at set times that may not have coincided with her schedule, especially given she was in clinicals. Also, if she was still nursing that hamstring, she may have been benched even if she WAS still on the team at that point.

Hope this adds some understanding to the running aspect of Maura's life.

Wowzer wrote:

Paris the ones that are truly trying to find answers to what happened are not the entertaining ones.I believe you are one of the few here that are trying their best to find the truth.
It is the ones that come here with drama,misinformation,denial,un true "facts", insults and did I say DRAMA.
I believe they are here because it has become a large part of their lives and without a MM forum their lives would be very boring. I have a hard time believing that these people actually want to find real facts and the truth because then there would be no more forum and therefore no more excitement in their lives. They have chased people away on both forums that might have given them some real help in finding out what happened.
The ones that have kept up with the old forum and now this one know that this is true.They have seen the insults and name calling. Now think about why someone would insult the very people that can offer the most help.

Wowzer, I really am begging you to give this attitude up... Or atleast tone it down. It feels like you are in constant attack mode. As you remember, I'm local too... I recognize the posters and comments that have caused you to respond in this manner. I've lost respect/doubt rationality of these particular posters -- but those few people are the minority! There are a lot of very kind and thoughtful and rational people that are involved with this forum AS WELL AS were apart of the MMM forum.

Of course I don't mean to TELL you who to be or how to react to the negative comments, please understand that -- but as another local who cares about Maura and finding out what happened to her -- i think it's best to not take the ridiculous comments seriously at this point. it's only a couple of people...

Okay, that was my two cents -- take it or leave it!

Bacon - I could not agree with you more. It is posters like Wowzer and a few others that make this board almost unbearable to visit.

Wowzer is constantly on the defensive, wants to argue about absolutely everything, for some reason thinks that people are insulting their state at every turn.

There is this constant arguing and bickering which is incited by only a few people but for the rest of us who have the maturity level beyond high school it is really frustrating and annoying.

Many of us want to visit the Topix forum because we are able to hear the insights of people who live in the area and in some cases hear from people who have been directly involved. Unfortunately we have to weed through post after post of silly bickering only for the sake of disagreeing in order to actually read peoples comments who are legitimate.

There is definitely something to be said for a moderated forum. While I would prefer un-moderated Topix makes it very clear that some people are just too immature to participate in forum that does set guidelines for them.

So in the end, myself and several other interested parties (and yes, I have conversed with many) spend a few minutes and then leave to go elsewhere.

It is too bad that only a few posters ruin it for so many.

Here is a polite reminder that this is a public forum intended for the purpose of committing to writing one's viewpoint(s). Presumably, those opinions shall also be pertinent to the scope of the named thread.

It is neither a club, nor a popularity contest. It is not a battlefield, nor has war been declared.

If some disagree, whether in theory or in fact about premises set forth, so be it. Each is entitled to his/her own say.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
As a fairly disinterested observer to all this, I have to say that there is, for the most part, only one group of people throwing insults around. And it ain't the people who were on the old forum.
Just my observation. If you don't agree with it, just look up.

I'm looking way way up.As a part of the "group of 5" which was mentioned in an earlier reply by someone else it's understandable that you are blind and deaf when it comes to anyone in this group. It's absolutely unbelievable after watching the insult and name calling for YEARS that you can say that "it ain't the people on the old forum that threw insults around.
You stick up for this small group and even speak for them when they don't have the nerve themselves to answer for one of their comments.
Firecat do you believe that the public is blind and stupid? Do you think you are really helping to find out what happened?
A few here are trying their best to show the harm that is being done by this small group yet they are being totally ignored. Just read post # 4799 written by someone with 29/20 vision and an open mind.

Eurobserver wrote:

Hello all,
After considerable deliberation I shall risk saying this, however much of a rapping I might get from some of you here....
I do believe there is a slight tendency here from some quarters to somehow idealise Maura and not to fully take into account the raging hormone storms affecting most young men and women in their early 20´s.
That´s perfectly natural after all, and reconsidering and reshaping one´s personal relationships and decisions fairly frequently is far from uncommon in particular in the age group 18-25.
I think it is perfectly possible that Maura might have fallen head over heels in love with a man while at Amherst. Perhaps it happened in a snap, very suddenly and in such a way that she was completely swept away in a rush of passions, unlike anything that she might have experienced before. Perhaps she was, in a sense, "bewitched" and "intoxicated" by such sensations to the point where her normal, very considerate self was somehow "overtaken".
This doesn´t make Maura "bad" in any sense.
It´s just human behaviour - unfortunate perhaps in the sense that one becomes very self-centred, but still very, very normal, particularly so at the age of 21 or 22.
Remember, she apparently was struggling with much inner turmoil some time before leaving Amherst and seemed on the verge of confiding in her father and Billy R. She may have been feeling deeply distressed by the conflicting loyalties in more ways than one. The pressure in such a situation must have been nearly unbearable.
If a theoretical "secret" boyfriend actually was responsible for the hit-and-run case involving Petrit Vasi while driving Maura´s Saturn, there were several good reasons for Maura to leave Amherst.
1.The Saturn was technically her father´s car, which might have left him in a precarious legal position as the legal owner of the car.
2. Above also goes for Maura, if she had perhaps let a "secret" boyfriend use the Saturn.
3. The "secret" boyfriend might have been risking a long jail-sentence, particularly if Petrit Vasi had died from his severe injuries, which for a long time seemed like a possible outcome.
4. Maura´s relationship with the "secret" boyfriend would have become publicly known as a consequence of all this, with all the fall-out and shame resulting from such a revelation.
I´m also wondering whether the reported state of Maura´s dorm room at UMass Amherst could have been a result of her spending most of her time with a possible "secret" boyfriend in or near Amherst, perhaps not really staying much in her dorm room.
All this would also fit in with the "mystery" voice-mail received by Billy R., which he and his mother are adamant was Maura sobbing, despite LE purporting otherwise.
Understandably, she would have had a strong desire to speak with Billy, but couldn´t in the end face herself doing so, not even as far as leaving a message on his voice-mail.
All this is, of course, pure speculation on my side, and I may certainly be barking up the wrong tree!
Something completely different may well turn out to be the true story, but this theory of mine is the one that I personally would go for right now,
while keeping all other options open in the meantime.

Although your theory is a possibility, I tend to disagree with the scenario of "raging hormones", a "secret boyfriend" and an intense conflict with her love for Billy.

As you state, this is PURE SPECULATION. There is no proof. Psychic readings/numerology may suffice for some as proof, but these are outside of my sphere of knowledge and belief.

Is there a benefit to pursuing such theories when they are factually unsubstantiated?

Found this from a 'friend' of Maura's. Posted Sept 2008
Missing persons
On Tuesday something got me to thinking about a girl I went to high school and college with...

Her name is Maura Murray.

She disappeared after a minor car accident in Haverhill, NH over 4 years ago (Feb 9, 2004 to be exact).

This girl had seemingly everything going for her. Dean's list college student, long term boyfriend who she was planning to get engaged to, great athlete, etc. etc.

Timeline of the whole story is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maura_Murray
Her family's site about the situation is here: http://www.mauramurraymissing.com

I remember where I was and what I was doing when I saw her face pop up on the tv screen with a giant MISSING banner above.

There are so many unanswered questions about the whole situation that thinking about it just makes my brain run and run in circles.

I really hope that some day there will be answers. I feel the worst for Fred Murray (Her dad) and the rest of the family.

It's all very strange for me to think about someone just disappearing like this. I mean, we obviously see it on the news pretty often, but when it's someone you've known for years, even peripherally (I wasn't close friends with her, we were on the track and XC teams together in high school and cheering for during / congratulating after races was about as much as we ever talked), the game changes, a lot.

When I find myself in this contemplative reflective mood over this, I find myself looking around at my good friends, wondering if anyone of them (or myself) might some day meet a similar fate. Or was it a fate at all? Did she want to disappear? If so, why? Is she still alive and hiding? Is she buried in a shallow grave? etc etc...

Have any of you known someone who just disappeared like this? Were they found? How long did it take?

This is my brain. On overdrive... thanks for reading.

This poster was a male by the way, didn't think I ought post his screename, but he's been a member on that site since 2000 and has thousands of posts.
I guess I thought the most important thing is to remind that we interact with lots of people everyday, rubbing elbows and such. Maura seemed very well liked, just didn't get personal and this is usually best, if not professional. Many lifelong friends though from all that I have seen. She was mingling in the dorm room at that little party too, had a friend join her for lunch, etc......
Rambling now, sorry

whiston wrote:

hi Euro and all.you are right. Mauras prior life holds lots of facts that her family and friends have not yet shared.Umass coach Julie Lafreniere told me via email that Maura had never run a race for umass.she was not a star athlete. Her life was far from what was pretended on the last forum.Amherst and her prior life has lots to tell.take care philip

Maura did run a race for UMass. I don't have info in front of me but will post later.

And unless you have facts to prove up your statement that her life "was far from what was pretended on the last forum," and "there is info that family and friends haven't shared" then be careful of what you post.

Not all info on Maura needs to be discussed such as the times you asked what kind of junk mail did she get, where did she get her oil changed, what is she holding in her hand in a photograph.

What relevance do these questions have? Of course, not all is known. And, not all known info can be shared. As has been said, this is an ONGOING CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. Her life and her family are not 100% open to public scrutiny.

In the past, you have made speculations as if they are fact. When you are questioned about it and asked for verification, you turn a deaf ear.
And you repeatedly have deaf ears.

This is not to say that minds aren't open to Maura having a life other than what was known. But if you are going to make a statement to the effect that it is a fact, then back it up.

Otherwise, be careful of how you word your postings and quit acting as if the Murray family has a secret hidden agenda. Their only agenda is to bring Maura home.

What is your agenda?

There are so many unanswered questions about the whole situation that thinking about it just makes my brain run and run in circles.
I really hope that some day there will be answers. I feel the worst for Fred Murray (Her dad) and the rest of the family.

i suspect these quoted sentiments are the basis for everyone's inquiry into maura's having gone missing.

we can all relate to this tragic mystery as compassionate human beings.

i'll answer my own question to say that pursuing nearly any line of reasoning is acceptable...although i acknowledge it can be frustrating for readers who may reject and/or dismiss "far-out" ideas.

IMHO, projecting one's own emotional history or family experiences onto maura murray's life may not be particularly beneficial in that her family and friends knew/know her best...and this conversation is once removed from that level of knowledge and intimacy.

without the benefit of a legitimate new clue, maura's reappearance, or god forbid, the evidence of her demise, i somehow doubt her disappearance will be solved here...online. i may be very wrong, however. this statement is realistic, not negative...it doesn't erase hope.

i have not witnessed the years of insults that have apparently been hurled about, but they apparently exist and are obviously hurtful. no one seems to be stepping forward to specifically discuss them, retract them or apologize. i just hear a plea to step back inside the box and march along.

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
Maura did run a race for UMass. I don't have info in front of me but will post later.
And unless you have facts to prove up your statement that her life "was far from what was pretended on the last forum," and "there is info that family and friends haven't shared" then be careful of what you post.
Not all info on Maura needs to be discussed such as the times you asked what kind of junk mail did she get, where did she get her oil changed, what is she holding in her hand in a photograph.
What relevance do these questions have? Of course, not all is known. And, not all known info can be shared. As has been said, this is an ONGOING CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. Her life and her family are not 100% open to public scrutiny.
In the past, you have made speculations as if they are fact. When you are questioned about it and asked for verification, you turn a deaf ear.
And you repeatedly have deaf ears.
This is not to say that minds aren't open to Maura having a life other than what was known. But if you are going to make a statement to the effect that it is a fact, then back it up.
Otherwise, be careful of how you word your postings and quit acting as if the Murray family has a secret hidden agenda. Their only agenda is to bring Maura home.
What is your agenda?

Thank you, thank you! Indeed, it is an ongoing criminal investigation, AND Maura's life, and the lives of her family members should NOT be open to such blatant, insensitive public scrutiny.

Statements not based on fact are, conversely, fictional; and to imply any notion of sinister leanings either toward Maura or her family is just plain cruel, IMHO.

Thanks, Bacon.

What I will say, I hope for the last time, is that questioning a confusing and inaccurate 'police report'- challenging a shameful lack of response by LE to a missing person - questioning conflicting, belated, and inconsistent 'witness reports'- and wanting to find and bring to justice perpetrators and their accomplices if they exist is NOT a blanket attack on NH or even on the Haverhill area, and if anyone wants to misconstrue my and others' comments to that effect, that is your issue, not ours.

The "agenda" is finding Maura and if a crime was committed, bringing the perpetrators to justice.
To suggest or say anything else is just nonsense, at best.

On to weightier and more relevant matters - there has been some question as to whether there are VT plates that are white with red lettering, which was then deconstructed because LE plates are red with white lettering.
As a matter of fact, VT temp plates ARE white with red lettering, and at night would appear quite like MA plates.(Yes, I've seen "Manhunter" and "Red Dragon" a few too many times...)

No facts here, just opinion and speculation...

This forum has a lot of "global" dismissing of other posters' ideas. That can be infuriating to the "dissed" poster. You'd hope people would take a few breaths before posting disparaging remarks. Me included. My mom, the diplomat, drummed it into my head to critique the idea, not the person. S--t!, I hated hearing that. But I guess that's the most useful way to do it... objectively and with a good debate.

A lot of posters here can't consider Maura was suicidal. They can support that position, and those who think it's possible can support THAT. Is that the biggest split between the "old" group and the general posting population?

Runaway doesn't sound right to most people, but it IS still a possibility. It just seems too.... unplanned, for such a smart young woman, viewed from the outside (not enough cash, etc.). Although Maura met many criteria of people choosing to disappear, with her close family connections it never sounded realistic.

A hit-and-run accident while she was in the road in NH? Covered up? Maybe.

A first accident (we haven't seen the witness statement(s) of)... maybe.(Or the written report of cancelling of ambulance, etc. for that one.)

A spur-of-the moment opportunistic crime when a pretty girl alone, or in trouble, was spotted and targeted... maybe. I guess if Maura was hurt or in shock she could've been hustled into a vehicle pretty quickly... But how quickly could idiot criminals come up with a staging strategy?

If there's a connection between why she left Amherst under less than ideal conditions and timing (bad car, leaving at dusk, not waiting for paychecks, etc.) I don't know what effect that has on what ultimately happened. A poster earlier talked about her maybe witnessing art theft at her job... who knows?

I sure doubt she was going all that way up north for anything like drugs! To ditch the Saturn that had been in an unreported accident... who knows? I guess Whiston and others are checking on the possibility Maura knew someone who had "a place" up there where she could stay after she came up empty in her search for a motel/inn.

I truly doubt now she had a secret boyfriend, but she may have "made friends" with someone "mechanically inclined" during her car woes. Maybe this person misinterpreted the relationship, was expecting more from her, and something bad happened?

Foul play -- homicide --- major crimes unit involvement... well, we've not been told much --- I don't know (please correct me) that all of LE now says it's a homicide.

Almost impossible to believe LE would cover up any accident involving them and Maura on the road. Hard to believe LE would hurt her and cover it up.

Once I was told the timing was wrong for Atwood to have come across Maura at her first accident. Is this the case?

The timing was close to right for the CW to have come across her if she was alive and on foot. Could one of them, seeing her in tears, have helped her get somewhere (that's a friend's idea)? That's still not a full answer because if she was alive she'd have called her loved ones...

Since we're not getting any new info except "a bomb" once or twice a year, maybe the only thing besides LE's investigation is to work on what Whiston is pursuing --- some trigger we don't know about at UMass??????????

Okay, done.

JMO wrote:

<quoted text>
Although your theory is a possibility, I tend to disagree with the scenario of "raging hormones", a "secret boyfriend" and an intense conflict with her love for Billy. As you state, this is PURE SPECULATION. There is no proof.

Well, of course its speculation. Its very good speculation because it answers a lot of unanswered questions.

If one doesn't want a solution (not pointing at JMO in particular)- one can make blanket ridicule statements - or come on here and stir up pointless arguements to get the board off topic with a barage of allies and sock puppets, so after a certain amount of time passes - someone can declare her legally dead and it can be said that a massive effort was made to find her. That's the game that looks like is being played here.

We've got several people here that rerally don't add anything to finding a solution - they have a vested interest in shooting down anyone with an idea or set of parameters that could lead to some clarity. A fine example now is accusing Philip of wanting to know about the contents of sock drawrs rather then a set of general interests activities and significant experiences that could help find a destination if she left. Always some kind of backhanded comment from someone here.

Euro thought of something I didn't about an additional possible reason for Maura leave. I give him credit for it.

I've been skeptical about her driving a car that hit Vasi because of the 1/2 hour shifts at her job and the likely records of a phone call. I do consider that the car could have been subsequently parked and the person then walked over to where Maura was, and delivered upsetting news.

Also - could the physically impossible car damage be explained by the Vasi incident or was the car undrivable when found (making this possible explanation impossible? I don't know.)

Could the car have been put in the back of a truck and dropped off there?(Like Knight Rider - yeah cheasy I know) Explains lack of gas purchase records.

Am I going to say that the path Euro is taking is the only solution possible? No not by a long shot.

A simple plan like - OK Maura we're going to follow you, crash the car here and then we'll take you to Canada. You'll need to live in some foreign country for a while - but if this works - everything will be OK.

Whoever was involved would have a reason to discourage certain theories.

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
Maura did run a race for UMass. I don't have info in front of me but will post later.
And unless you have facts to prove up your statement that her life "was far from what was pretended on the last forum," and "there is info that family and friends haven't shared" then be careful of what you post.
But if you are going to make a statement to the effect that it is a fact, then back it up.
What is your agenda?

I don't think anyone forgets that Maura took action to travel to Vermont before she left, and that she bought a lot of alcohol - that apparently some folks still don't believe even though it was caught on camera.

We all know what happened - so I'll stop now.

Hello all,

So, basically JMO (post 4983) would like us to keep our mouths shut and only write about facts that can be substantiated and refrain from theoretical scenarios and ideas.

Well, that´s what I call a loud and clear message.
Not much to discuss then, considering how few and far between the facts are.
We could just as well close down here, it would appear...

Benjamin Franklin wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't think anyone forgets that Maura took action to travel to Vermont before she left, and that she bought a lot of alcohol - that apparently some folks still don't believe even though it was caught on camera.
We all know what happened - so I'll stop now.

\
All of the actions you refer to above have always been acknowledged and accepted and have never been at any dispute so I'm missing your point??

Lady Gray, It has always been said that Maura was seen on camera purchasing the alcohol, do you know that this has been confirmed by any family? She purchased bottles of alcohol and only wine was found at the scene. Where did the rest of it wind up or did she take it back to her room for when she returned? Just wondering.

JMO wrote:

<quoted text>
Thank you, thank you! Indeed, it is an ongoing criminal investigation, AND Maura's life, and the lives of her family members should NOT be open to such blatant, insensitive public scrutiny.
Statements not based on fact are, conversely, fictional; and to imply any notion of sinister leanings either toward Maura or her family is just plain cruel, IMHO.

the reality is, that if Maura had been previously sexually abused by a friend or family member, she probably chose to leave her life behind. Not sure why that is so hard to believe--it happens every day! Her actions leading up to her disappearance lend themself to the image of a very troubled young lady---more than just stress type troubles. Is it wrong to investigate what was troubling her? Maybe the family didn't even know what she had been through before.......again, its not unheard of. I am sure I am not popular for saying it, but many people get very defensive about her past--if anything they should be forthcoming with information on her life to disprove it. Choosing to leave a life behind doesn't make her a bad person---it makes her a person with strong self preservation skills. Nobody is asking for anyone else info--just Maura's. The family say how outgoing she is, how people turned to her for advice, yet the people I have been able to contact that went to UMass with her in the nursing program, said she kept to herself--that "she seemed liked a nice person".

The race she ran for Umass was 4/13/2002. She ran the 3000 meter run and finished 9th. It was in Providence at Brown University. Here's the results:
http://www.gonu.com/wtrack/2002/browninvit.ht...

Eurobserver wrote:

Hello all,
So, basically JMO (post 4983) would like us to keep our mouths shut and only write about facts that can be substantiated and refrain from theoretical scenarios and ideas.
Well, that´s what I call a loud and clear message.
Not much to discuss then, considering how few and far between the facts are.
We could just as well close down here, it would appear...

Although my personal preference is not to read fiction, and since my imagination is not nearly as active or vivid as to create some of the scenarios cooked up here, I suppose the suggestion to "keep our mouths shut" (yours words, not mine) is a possibility, although a bit extreme.

In the absence of new, factual information, there is merely empty space, more time, and yet another pause...which is being filled with semi-truths and gossip. My word. Gossip.
I doubt that the truth can somehow be "forced" by the will of a few.
Instead, critical thinking (based on factual information), keeping alert to tips, and patience will likely support the emerging truth...someday.

Maura is a victim. The circumstances surrounding her disappearance seem not to be fully known to her family and authorities.

If she were my daughter, I would feel further pained to know that unfounded beliefs, if stated often enough, may be taken as "truth" in the public view; with some of them being unflattering by way of extending to Maura's unknown personal, social and family relationships.

My bottom line is that people are digging as quasi-investigators, and reporting without the parameters and context of being professionals.

I remain concerned and mindful that the interpretation of information, if not factual, can actually be harmful to Maura's reputation and character. And it matters, at least in my opinion.