Where is MAURA MURRAY

Why Vroom-vroom like PI? Why PI like Vroom-vroom?

Recall the confrontation between FBI agents and PI's outside a Hartford restaurant a few years ago? Inside which was dining an aide to former Gov. John G. Rowland? The PI's were hired by Tomasso as part of an effort to make it look like the aide was mentally unstable. The FBI viewed it as witness intimidation.

http://ctsp.vt.edu/Biography/Lawlor.html

They left out the part about his affiliation with Patron Systems. But I think he does know Judge Durkin, who gave Harley Man his start in the storage unit business a few years back in Westminster, VT, just behind the Ford dealer. And not far from where Lawlor grew up.

If you can't trust a Puritan, who can you trust?

Well, how about a company conceived in a Brattleboro boiler room, the president of which was A. Murray Sinclair?

http://www.secinfo.com/d13Wqv.32Ex.htm

Good night Preston Avenue.

Firecat...I know...now....had to go back....never have used "reply"...sometimes the article is so long...and I just want to address one section...
I just copy/paste. And, my computer comes and goes...(many swear words)
This old grown woman wants to say now.....(then hope for sleep)

I am Shack..have been Shack since Spring 2005. I didn't change name when I started here at Topix. There are many here who have changed their names.
PG, Wowzer, White Wash ALL sound alike to me. I apologize only to the one(s) who are/is not crass, angry and abrasive. Normally I ignore them anyway,and I don't roll over and say I am sorry, when I am not.
I write my thoughts and opinions about Haverhill area based on how this crime was handled in the first place, and seemingly how the "people on the street" speak of it. The first was "there's a man going around town being a PIA looking for his daughter". There was and is repetition of words of, "nothing happened to her here....she ran away...she's probably waitressing in Canada....she committed suicide. What was she doing here anyway.".
Westman's attitude of "how long is this going to go on"? Add to that a "no trespassing" letter to Fred from HPD. Words (from a born and
raised citizen of Haverhill re: PD .."they're not the brightest..they do the best they can". Complacency bothers me. "oh well, what can we do"...
There was talk in the Spring of 2005 about the possibility of citizens doing something...something like a citizen's group...short lived.
One Haverhill Poster was afraid to speak cuz she said she looked like Maura...and said the "big guys run the Town"..another said the Town was run by the "Upper Crust"...the ones with money...what good would it do to speak up. This last Summer, a tax payer saying "they (PD) think they're
the Secret Service' and he tried to speak at a town meeting and was shot down. This is just what I have thought of in a few minutes.
Re: Conrad...2 men laughing.."he got what he deserved" another guy smirking and remarking on females and softball games..another guy
"saw his truck stay all night" (at a house) I say... small minds.
A man was shot dead..!in his driveway..and immediately found bleeding by his mother..! I don't need to know why...the family needs to know "who"...

Do any of these words from locals sound nice..? What would you think..? Do I have proof that these words were heard by me...of course not....I just made them all up....for goodness sake.
What would anyone think hearing any of these words? If the Town of Haverhill had been a town that I had had no affiliation, perhaps I wouldn't be so disappointed/ashamed.

If a Haverhill area daughter went missing in my Town...I would be as adamant as I appear here. Certainly nothing would intimidate me.
I wouldn't and couldn't be quiet.

Lastly, so that it might stick in a memory. I have never said that all of Haverhill citizens are stupid, mean.....(add your own insults)...
I have said that SOME are (add your own insults)
The last SOME are not helping.....
The caring kind ones are helping...as told by Weeper ..period.

The murder of a man in Pike, the murder of a man in Warren, the murder of a young man from Wentworth.etc...Laconia "episode"...? What is the answer within this small area of Grafton County. Has there been any "Concerned Citizens"
group formed....?

I have said and written all of the above so many times....what part of it is not understandable....?????

Anything I write is sincere...because I have a hard time thinking of a daughter...gone.

If you think you are slick and we don't notice your identical methodology - I've just told you you are wrong.

Also - anyone that cares will read earlier pages.

Cave Dude wrote:

Did Maura's Saturn at some earlier point hit the back of the SBD's bus?"
I made some room here where I'm writing and have been just sitting here trying to think if I could answer this one. I think I'd only be able to have a chance at answering that if we knew debris was found somewhere further back, but not too far away so that the bus and car were no longer within collision range.

Just some additional information re a previous accident for the Saturn that night (whether hitting the SBD bus or some other vehicle or thing)... I believe that Weeper had shared on the MMM forum that the alledged previous accident had caused the Saturn's headlights to be seriously askew, so much so that the car could not have been driven very far at all with the headlights like that. I think he also gave some estimate of the distance it might have gone, something like a couple of miles. Given that darkness had fallen prior to 7 PM, it has always seemed to me that a car with the headlights so badly out of line would have been very noticeable to other drivers. That's point # 1.

Point #2 is: Seems like if there is good reason to believe the Saturn could not have gone more than a couple of miles after the first accident, it could have been worthwhile to trace back 2 to 3 miles in all road directions from where the Saturn came to rest on SR-112, and scour the trees, posts, roadside areas for any signs of collision and debris from collision and collect any such debris other suggestive "evidence" to determine whether it matches up with the Saturn (broken areas, scraped areas, etc.). This long after the fact, I dunno how useful such a search would be. I did bring it up as soon as we had the info from Weeper, though.

hi all .repeating but worth while.when the cottage hospital witness passed the weathered barn at about 7.12 pm the saturn and a police vehicle were at the scene across from the Westmans with no sign of any body.this was 15 minutes was before the Westmans called about the accident.did pd show up twice.somoene suggested it was assumed that sgt Smith was at the Westmans but he would have been there before they had called about the accident.take care philip

citigirl wrote:

Euro they did not park the buses next to each other. One was always parked on the bus drivers property pararell to 112 with the front of the bus facing west. The other bus was always backed into the property with the front of the bus facing 112.

Yankee I don't know if some one said the bus was never backed in. We would drive by SBD's house every other weekend and this is the position the buses were always parked in.

Cave Dude wrote:

Weeper wrote: "To grasp the oddity of this action (as his neighbor did that evening) we need to understand that his girlfriend also drove a full size school bus and they always parked them in front of the house where the State installed a large floodlight (just like a street light on a public street) right on his property at the intersection with Bradley Hill Road."
Eurobserver wrote: "Hello all, I´ve been re-checking some of the photos posted on the MMM site. There is one interesting picture of the former house of the SBD (Mr A-d) at the junction of Rte 112 and Bradley Hill Road, Swiftwater.
Judging from this picture it would seem quite impossible to find enough space to park two schoolbuses next to each other on the space available along Rte 112.
If the schoolbus-driving live-in girlfriend of the Mr A-d had in fact parked "her" schoolbus in this spot prior to the SBD arriving home after having presumably spoken with Maura (?)- well, if so it looks as if the SBD would have had to reverse "his" schoolbus further into his yard to find a spot where to park it.
Does anyone here know whether the schoolbus of the live-in girlfriend was actually parked along Rte 112 before Mr A-d arrived back home after having stopped by the Saturn?"
Ok this seems like a good question. I don't know the answer but I just want to make sure I understand the implications of it - etc.
So Euro - please tell me here where I have it wrong, if I do. One problem is that I can't find the picture you are refering to - but I know I probably don't know where to look.
Anyway - I quoted Weeper about the buses up there.
Are you saying either:
1. That it appears possible, based on what you see in the picture (but you want a second opinion)- that two busses could not park together there *at all*?
Or
2. That it appears possible, based on what you see in the picture (but you want a second opinion)- if one bus was already parked in the usual spot - the second bus would have to be parked in a time consuming manner to fit in its usual place - so it would be more reasonable in an emergency to park the second bus near the outbuilding (or some other reason that is actually not unusual)?
or
3. Something else (and I didn't get it)- that either (supports and enhances) or (contradicts) what Weeper said.
Thank You

CaveDude,

Regarding your post:

Now this is really strange:

1. According to your quote by Weeper above, Weeper is clearly implying that both schoolbuses were as a rule always parked, as I understand it, next to/along eachother in the area between the
A-d house and rte 112.

Thus: For the SBD (Mr A-d) to having reversed his bus into his yard on that fateful night (9th February 2004) was a highly unusual occurrence.

2. Citigirl here makes it quite plain that it was, in fact, common practise by the SBD (Mr A-d) to reverse his bus into his yard with the front of the bus facing rte 112.

Conclusion: Nothing at all unusual about him doing so on this particular night, provided of course that the schoolbus of his live-in girlfriend was actually parked in the spot between their house and rte 112.
This would seem very likely as his girlfriend was apparently at home at the time, having presumably arrived there before Mr A-d.

Conclusion:

The respective testimonies of Weeper and Citigirl are clashing on this point.
The previous comments by Whitewash on this particular matter would also seem to clearly support the opinion by Citigirl, a member of Maura´s extended family, if I´m not mistaken.

Therefore, Citigirl would have no reason whatsoever to not state the truth or to in any way "protect" the SBD/Mr A-d.

Personally I would definitely accept Citigirl´s information on this matter.

So why would then Weeper - with all due respect - state something completely different here?

I just don´t know.
Ideas?

Euro I'm only stating the way I saw the buses parked when I drove by. I have no idea as to how the buses were parked on the night of Feb. 9th. Weeper did speak to neighbors and I have no reason to doubt his word.

citigirl wrote:

Euro I'm only stating the way I saw the buses parked when I drove by. I have no idea as to how the buses were parked on the night of Feb. 9th. Weeper did speak to neighbors and I have no reason to doubt his word.

Hello Citigirl.

Thanks for your response.

I certainly never implied that you knew hos the buses were parked on the night in question.

Even so, what Weeper appears to suggest was an unusual occurrence seems to me much less so.

You´re saying that whenever you went past the SBD house, one bus was always parked along rte 112 (between the road and the A-d house)and the other was backed in with the front facing rte 112.
Local poster Whitewash recently said the same on this forum.

Weeper is stating that this arrangement also applied on the night of 9th February, 2004, but considers this arrangement to have been highly unusual...

Well, it doesn´t seem to have been that unusual a parking arrangement at the A-d house. Rather the opposite, if anything.

And looking at the photo of the A-d house on the Links & photos section of the MMM web page, it´s quite clear that two schoolbuses could hardly get enough parking space between the former A-d house and rte 112.

maybe it's like those plays with 12 characters performed by a cast of 6. always hard to tell. maybe it's him dribbling out the crumbs. maybe someone else. maybe fbi computer crime center. maybe pi. maybe teenager in romania. maybe mafia in boca raton. maybe why its called virtual. online has its limits. open to anyone. easy to be manipulated. frustrating. but not impossible to put 2 and 2 together. not necessary for helpful facts and speculation to correspond to poster id. each fact, theory, conjecture can be represented by one id or many. shouldn't matter. dancer or dance conundrum irrelevant in virtual land.

Although it may be an incorrect assumption on my part, what I also found as odd behavior was the SBD returned to his vehicle after going inside his house and asking his girlfriend to contact 911. He stayed inside the bus for some time.

When asked why he was sitting inside the vehicle his answer was that he was doing paperwork.

Why didn't he walk back down to the accident site? Thanks to Whitewash it sounds like a number of the residents/neighbors were milling about outside.

His bus was facing the road so with the description of the state installed security light his statement that it was too dark to see the vehicles passing by causes me to wonder.

I also believe that at some point he spoke to the responding officer and headed down to French Pond to aid in the search for Maura.

Thanks to Whitewash, I am now aware that his bus was searched with dog teams and his property was searched after he and his family moved to Florida. I was always under the impression that his property had been searched early on like everyone else's property. The only one I ever heard about not cooperating was the CW.

Citigirl, I concur. I have always believed that your family is in good hands with Weeper & the Volunteer Private Investigators whom have kindly worked on Maura's investigation all of these years.

That a transfer south might be arranged by office next to Kennedy says as much as conflicting reports about well lit vehicle parking positions.

Wowzer wrote:

Even though they were mild this time to her usual ones she was still insulting the people in Haverhill.{/QUOTE]

I fail to see where in that post she insulted "the people in Haverhill." In all seriousness, please point out to me where you see that so I can understand what's upsetting you.

Since it was said not long ago by I think Weeper that the people here have been a big help why would you want to insult them?

I personally don't want to insult anyone.

Why am I often quick to defend Shack? Perhaps simply because I understand her subtext, and what she's trying to say--even when others do not. As shown above, I don't know you well at all, so it's not easy for me to read the subtext of what you're saying when you say something. I have to take it at face value.

I'm not trying to start an argument here. Not at all--in fact, I'm trying to do the opposite. I'm trying to get a better understanding of how you read Shack's post, so that I can understand why you feel the way you do about it. Because right now, the only assumption I can make with the information I was able to get from it, was that you are angry at Shack's post because it was written by Shack.

The fact that Shack, by the way, is from the old forum is not an issue per se. The only reason it matters to me at all is because it's the REASON I know her well. If I'd known her from another forum, or because she lived down the street, or whatever, it would work the same way.

Cave Dude wrote:

If you think you are slick and we don't notice your identical methodology - I've just told you you are wrong.
Also - anyone that cares will read earlier pages.

Cave Dude--to whom or what was this referring?

citigirl wrote:

Euro I'm only stating the way I saw the buses parked when I drove by. I have no idea as to how the buses were parked on the night of Feb. 9th. Weeper did speak to neighbors and I have no reason to doubt his word.

Citigirl--when you refer to the way the buses were parked "every other weekend" is this BEFORE or AFTER Maura disappeared? Because that might be significant.

Ok, that came out wonky the first time. Let me make that easier to read, with the right words were attributed to the right people. Sorry about the keystroke error that may have caused confusion.

Wowzer wrote:
Even though they were mild this time to her usual ones she was still insulting the people in Haverhill.

(Firecat wrote):

I fail to see where in that post she insulted "the people in Haverhill." In all seriousness, please point out to me where you see that so I can understand what's upsetting you.

Subtext writer on meds or what?