Where is MAURA MURRAY

I know that I am out of sync again and still...tired computer/operator.
One of the aka;s ...Wowzer..? White Wash...? wrote this:
"Shack stop with all this from your Cousins Cabin crap.
You know that blood came back belong to Claudes Girl friends daughter!"
My answer...No, I didn't know that....didn't know Tests were back.
And, again ..it is NOT a "Cousin apostrophe s Cabin".
Then aka W WW...? said...
"Just because you say so does not make something a FACT!
Now if we had some DNA TESTING then it could BE AN
ACTUAL FACT correct because it is possible someone in the family jumped the fence. My point being I was told By a good source too!
You post things that YOU BELIEVE are FACT without the actual evidence to make them FACT!"
My answer...for those who do not remember...when my father died, there was reference to his mother's maiden name, Moulton, in the obit. I do not and will not defend the name. Any kin was in E.Charleston, VT. I met a few, a few times up
there. They would blend well into the environment and mind set of the Haverhill
area. To be delicate, they couldn't spell Mensa..."two to change a light bulb"....
BTW, to the "Group" ..this Poster aka knows my family ties in Woodsville..
This Poster also has family ties in Woodsville, some employed by Town.
(what's this about someone in the family jumped the fence..?)
There is a crime investigation going in Woodsville area, not here in my Town.
I understand the defensive attitude, however the delivery is usually crass.
Certainly not beneficial for Chamber of Commerce.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is a necessary evil,
in its worst state, an intolerable one". Common Sense by Thomas Paine 1776.

Ms. Cretella did say that the owners of Greenwood,

Lexington Healthcare Group,

had some financial problems.''For us, it's tough times,'' she said.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...

I think your questions deserve the justice of some attempt to answer, speculate, etc.

Quija Wrote "So, reading Ben Franklin's and others' posts... some more speculation....
Did Maura's Saturn at some earlier point hit the back of the SBD's bus?"

I made some room here where I'm writing and have been just sitting here trying to think if I could answer this one. I think I'd only be able to have a chance at answering that if we knew debris was found somewhere further back, but not too far away so that the bus and car were no longer within collision range.

Its a question without an answer - which is another reason why I think it is an ineffective approach.

"Did SBD back onto his property as witnesses said?"

Yeah the witness statement that the SBD backed into the yard was missed in the whole scenario painted there.

From the Hanson Express at 7:27 PM the Westmans called the police. Lets assume that they were no longer looking when they were on the phone - for arguement's sake.

Meantime the Marrotte's saw the School Bus driver pull up to the scene. This is after 7:27 PM because the Westmans didn't say that they saw the Bus. For arguement's sake - lets say it was 7:28 PM.

Then, quoting the article:

"After Atwood drove away, Faith Westman noticed the Saturn’s interior lights switch on and off and witnessed a flurry of activity at the rear of
the car, including a person standing at the trunk, according to private investigator John Smith, who spoke with the Westmans after the accident."

The Westmans saw Atwood drive away but don't say they saw Maura - just a flury of activity and a person standing at the trunk of the car.

Part 1

You'd think they would be specific and say that they saw Maura or someone else. And if they weren't able to tell later on, how could they tell previously?
Atwood had to back his car in, tell his girlfriend and then she had to make the call. Lets say 5 minutes. Call was made at 7:47. Lets say he pulled away at 7:42.
I'm not sure we say Maura was still there at 7:42 because the Westmans saw a flurry of activity around the car and a person at the trunk.
The time when the witness observed the bus backing into the Atwood's property is extremely important. Also important is the time window when no one was looking, sometime after [7:27 PM at earliest, but adding an unknown amount of time for the bus to pull up -(unrealisticly seconds later) and up until the time the Marrotte's stoppoed looking or was unable to see Maura] but before 7:47 subtracting time way for the bus to pull onto the property, for him to walk into the house and ask his girlfriend to call, get back in the bus and sit down before the policeman arrived to ask him "Where is the Girl?" At the pace of a 350 pound 60 year old man.
Also consider that Mr. Atwood would have no idea who was watching him. So if we believe Mr. Atwood did this, we would have to believe that in less then 20 minutes (which is an unrealisticly large time frame):
1. A 60 year old man who weighs 350 pounds would be able to subdue a 20 year old girl -(it would have to be a surprise and not by overpowering her, but by knocking her out).
2. A 60 year old man who weighs 350 pounds would be able to move quickly enough to drag Maura off somewhere.
3. Mr Atwood would just happen to have chloroform or equivalent handy.(Or more realisticly, that Maura was actually unconscious from the accident and the conversation never happened [contradicted by some of the items being missing - only overcome if you believe he would have the forethought to take some items to cause confusion.)
4. Both witnesses just happened to not be looking or have their views obstructed when she was subdued - even though Mr. Atwood wouldn't know who or from what property and therefore angle the witnesses would be looking (but could reasonably anticipate possibly if only one angle existed - AKA only neighbors were only at one side of Bus),
5. Mr. Atwood had the forethought to park the bus in such a way that the Marrotte's view was obstructed by the bus while he subdued Maura.

"Why wouldn't SBD report the accident (of Maura hitting the back of the bus)?"
Well - under a hypothetical in which he is the killer - its not in his best interest to do so.
"Why would SBD (after apparently not having a violent past) suddenly assault a girl when he's in late middle age?"
Good point in that it would be unlikely in that regard. However - no one knows what goes on in a persons mind except the person themselves. Many serial killers have been viewed by others as outstanding individuals - but not all of them have a history of violence.
"If Mr. M was correct in supposing (while talking to CitiGirl) that the person in the Saturn was lost, that would explain the SBD taking a few extra minutes with the driver giving directions. Or in Ben Franklin's scenario of collusion, he and the driver would have plans to make."
Not sure who Mr. M is.
"If the person in the Saturn wasn't Maura, but was a long-haired male, could it have been a former student the SBD knew?"
I think this unlikely. It would require Mr. Atwood to have the ability to cause Maura to leave Amhurst unexpectedly - to have a New Hampshire ex-student go to Amhurst, comit the crime, come back.
"I earlier wondered if it was a son of an 'important person'."
I think this unlikely - because too many people would have to know and keep quiet. Ask any bank manager if they feel it a good policy to have their employes count the money together. The more people stirring the pot - especially in a law enforcement environment where someone would certainly eventually (or by now) whistleblow that, at least, the tone at the top encouraged the folks to turn a blind eye to a situation like that.(The atmosphere has to be there first before anyone would try it.)

"What would make the SBD lie? Who would he be most likely to lie FOR?"

If he was guilty and if he wanted to cover his tracks.

The implication of "Lie FOR" brings this unlikely thought to mind - that he and a buddy just happened to have a sick plan - and that plan was for Mr. Atwood to call his buddy should he ever happen to find a helpless girl stranded at the front of his house - his buddy would drive over and abduct her in a moments notice, and very quickly.

"And that seems to lead back to his desire to be part of LE and to help them."

Not sure who you are refering to...if you can clarify I'd appreciate it.

"You know, at this point, without rereading almost 300 pages I can't separate the Team's Facts from the Team's Best Guesses."

I also think some times we take their guesses as fact, because previous experience has given them enough confidence to, at times, deceive themselves.

"It's hard to remember this when there's no presented evidence, no foundation, to hang these fact/guesses on to give them form."

Good point

This was SUPPOSED to be part 1 - Part 2 is above.
I think your questions deserve the justice of some attempt to answer, speculate, etc.
Quija Wrote "So, reading Ben Franklin's and others' posts... some more speculation....
Did Maura's Saturn at some earlier point hit the back of the SBD's bus?"
I made some room here where I'm writing and have been just sitting here trying to think if I could answer this one. I think I'd only be able to have a chance at answering that if we knew debris was found somewhere further back, but not too far away so that the bus and car were no longer within collision range.
Its a question without an answer - which is another reason why I think it is an ineffective approach.

More parts to follow

"Did SBD back onto his property as witnesses said?"

Yeah the witness statement that the SBD backed into the yard was missed in the whole scenario painted there.

From the Hanson Express at 7:27 PM the Westmans called the police. Lets assume that they were no longer looking when they were on the phone - for arguement's sake.

Meantime the Marrotte's saw the School Bus driver pull up to the scene. This is after 7:27 PM because the Westmans didn't say that they saw the Bus. For arguement's sake - lets say it was 7:28 PM.

Then, quoting the article:

"After Atwood drove away, Faith Westman noticed the Saturn’s interior lights switch on and off and witnessed a flurry of activity at the rear of
the car, including a person standing at the trunk, according to private investigator John Smith, who spoke with the Westmans after the accident."

The Westmans saw Atwood drive away but don't say they saw Maura - just a flury of activity and a person standing at the trunk of the car.

You'd think they would be specific and say that they saw Maura or someone else. And if they weren't able to tell later on, how could they tell previously?

Atwood had to back his car in, tell his girlfriend and then she had to make the call. Lets say 5 minutes. Call was made at 7:47. Lets say he pulled away at 7:42.

I'm not sure we say Maura was still there at 7:42 because the Westmans saw a flurry of activity around the car and a person at the trunk.

The time when the witness observed the bus backing into the Atwood's property is extremely important. Also important is the time window when no one was looking, sometime after [7:27 PM at earliest, but adding an unknown amount of time for the bus to pull up -(unrealisticly seconds later) and up until the time the Marrotte's stoppoed looking or was unable to see Maura] but before 7:47 subtracting time way for the bus to pull onto the property, for him to walk into the house and ask his girlfriend to call, get back in the bus and sit down before the policeman arrived to ask him "Where is the Girl?" At the pace of a 350 pound 60 year old man.

Also consider that Mr. Atwood would have no idea who was watching him. So if we believe Mr. Atwood did this, we would have to believe that in less then 20 minutes (which is an unrealisticly large time frame):

1. A 60 year old man who weighs 350 pounds would be able to subdue a 20 year old girl -(it would have to be a surprise and not by overpowering her, but by knocking her out).

2. A 60 year old man who weighs 350 pounds would be able to move quickly enough to drag Maura off somewhere.

3. Mr Atwood would just happen to have chloroform or equivalent handy.(Or more realisticly, that Maura was actually unconscious from the accident and the conversation never happened [contradicted by some of the items being missing - only overcome if you believe he would have the forethought to take some items to cause confusion.)

4. Both witnesses just happened to not be looking or have their views obstructed when she was subdued - even though Mr. Atwood wouldn't know who or from what property and therefore angle the witnesses would be looking (but could reasonably anticipate possibly if only one angle existed - AKA only neighbors were only at one side of Bus),

5. Mr. Atwood had the forethought to park the bus in such a way that the Marrotte's view was obstructed by the bus while he subdued Maura.

Man - it looks like posts I made didn't post - so I post them again - now there is two.

Sorry.:(

Shack wrote:

I know that I am out of sync again and still...tired computer/operator.
One of the aka;s ...Wowzer..? White Wash...? wrote this:
"Shack stop with all this from your Cousins Cabin crap.
You know that blood came back belong to Claudes Girl friends daughter!"
My answer...No, I didn't know that....didn't know Tests were back.
And, again ..it is NOT a "Cousin apostrophe s Cabin".
Then aka W WW...? said...
"Just because you say so does not make something a FACT!
Now if we had some DNA TESTING then it could BE AN
ACTUAL FACT correct because it is possible someone in the family jumped the fence. My point being I was told By a good source too!
You post things that YOU BELIEVE are FACT without the actual evidence to make them FACT!"
My answer...for those who do not remember...when my father died, there was reference to his mother's maiden name, Moulton, in the obit. I do not and will not defend the name. Any kin was in E.Charleston, VT. I met a few, a few times up
there. They would blend well into the environment and mind set of the Haverhill
area. To be delicate, they couldn't spell Mensa..."two to change a light bulb"....
BTW, to the "Group" ..this Poster aka knows my family ties in Woodsville..
This Poster also has family ties in Woodsville, some employed by Town.
(what's this about someone in the family jumped the fence..?)
There is a crime investigation going in Woodsville area, not here in my Town.
I understand the defensive attitude, however the delivery is usually crass.
Certainly not beneficial for Chamber of Commerce.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is a necessary evil,
in its worst state, an intolerable one". Common Sense by Thomas Paine 1776.

If you copied what was written from the reply then you know exactly who wrote it and you know it wasn't me so why bring me back into the conversation?
I've been quietly sitting on the sidelines lurking so I wouldn't be accused of being a big ole meany. So many wrong things/untruths being said here but I've been good and kept the "facts" to myself so no one would say I was attacking someone by stating the truth.
Shack wrote:
They would blend well into the environment and mind set of the Haverhill
area. To be delicate, they couldn't spell Mensa..."two to change a light bulb"....
My answer:
Shack care to tell everyone again how you've NEVER insulted the locals here in the Haverhill area? If you're so much smarter than we are then how come you haven't solved this case yet?
Tell me why it is ok for you to insult the mentality of the people of Haverhill yet when someone defends them against the lies and insults they are branded the troublemakers. I just don't get it.

Patron Systems, Tactical Solution Partners, Pelican Mobile,

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American Financial Holdings, Inc. New Britain CT

Vermont's General:

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Bierman:

http://www.namebase.org/xbes/Hugo-Bierman.htm...

http://www.phcoct.org/nec2004/bands.html

Gotta love those martin guitars!!!!

Hi Tony.

vroom-vroom hold paper? why vroom-vroom hold paper?

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
If you copied what was written from the reply then you know exactly who wrote it and you know it wasn't me so why bring me back into the conversation?
I've been quietly sitting on the sidelines lurking so I wouldn't be accused of being a big ole meany. So many wrong things/untruths being said here but I've been good and kept the "facts" to myself so no one would say I was attacking someone by stating the truth.
Shack wrote:
They would blend well into the environment and mind set of the Haverhill
area. To be delicate, they couldn't spell Mensa..."two to change a light bulb"....
My answer:
Shack care to tell everyone again how you've NEVER insulted the locals here in the Haverhill area? If you're so much smarter than we are then how come you haven't solved this case yet?
Tell me why it is ok for you to insult the mentality of the people of Haverhill yet when someone defends them against the lies and insults they are branded the troublemakers. I just don't get it.

Why isn't it possible to accept the fact that she wasn't sure who said it? I've often read things, when catching up, and not remembered who to attribute them to. And I have a computer that functions well and has a cable modem, which Shack apparently does not. I don't always use the quote function because I have many more posts to read and it's not always the most efficient way to address several posts at once.

It WAS White Wash who said it, Shack.

Emily wrote:

vroom-vroom hold paper? why vroom-vroom hold paper?

Are you off your meds again or what?

What.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Why isn't it possible to accept the fact that she wasn't sure who said it? I've often read things, when catching up, and not remembered who to attribute them to. And I have a computer that functions well and has a cable modem, which Shack apparently does not. I don't always use the quote function because I have many more posts to read and it's not always the most efficient way to address several posts at once.
It WAS White Wash who said it, Shack.

Because she copied it word for word from the reply. How could she not know when the poster's name was right there.
And I suppose you think it's alright too for her to continue with her insults? She's done it for over 4 years now so I guess another 4 won't make a difference. Even though they were mild this time to her usual ones she was still insulting the people in Haverhill. Since it was said not long ago by I think Weeper that the people here have been a big help why would you want to insult them?
Why too do you stick up for her all the time FireCat? Isn't she a grown women?I don't see you doing it for others outside of your very small group. She may have come to Topix with the few from the old MM forum but that doesn't make her a kind person. Shack cannot hide her dislike and disdain for the people of NH and she has the gall to talk about "her NH". Shame on you Shack!!!!!!!

Even with the evolution of a secondary market for the resale of purchase money loans made by institutional lenders, no organized secondary market has developed for seller carry back financing. In most cases, individuals holding paper would prefer to receive cash for their note, but they do not know how to accomplish this.

----------

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27012228/

Imagine the money if you owned an office building full of shrinks.

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Vroom-vroom hold paper? Why Vroom-vroom hold paper?