Where is MAURA MURRAY

Half Moon,

He lived at his Grandmother's on Front Street and attended Philips Exeter Academy - a faculty child. It would very much be worth your while to read 'A Prayer for Owen Meany'. It is one of the best books I've ever read. The setting is in Exeter.

The rag found in the tail pipe was white and I believe Maura's dad placed it inside the trunk with other 'emergency?' items.

Shack,
I'm sure you and your family are safe. My entering bad waters while researching without the proper protection for my computer made it easy for those so inclined to spy. Used to be Trojans offered you protection!

Gvmeabrk,
No it doesnt. Not anyone specific, anyway. In my own defense though, I dont think I would have been as astute as you. For instance, if I saw someone I thought was Maura, I dont know if I would even know what to do. Sometimes I look at the missing persons or missing children and wonder if they are someone I have seen.

Was that a general question, or did I miss something?

Shack, ditto..........get well soon!

"Hi Cave Dude,
To clear this up, I don't think the SBD towed the Saturn with the bus. No way this spectacle wouldn't be observed!
I also doubt SBD's girlfriend was ON the bus trip with him since there were a lot of witnesses (students and parents) to this. And everyone in town would've heard."

Good points.

"I guess I took Weeper's statement to mean that it was not Maura in the Saturn and that the SBD was aware of that, but didn't say that."

Yep - I missed the fact that he said it could be a man, completely.

Note however - that Mr. Atwood said the woman looked like Maura -(by his Maybe) not Weeper.

Important post - I almost missed buried in the board here.

So uh - Firecat - you are correct - Cavemen miss details. I encourage that I be corrected.

What gets me is that I've been beating up a different path here for (how long now?)- must not of been much help - I apologize. I'm embarassed and disappointed in myself.

"Before I endlessly labor this point, I guess Weeper's posts should all be carefully looked at.(Which is hard to do due to the lack of a search function.)"

Thank you for pointing this out and Elsewherebriefly-> reposting.

OK yeah - I'm on the same wave length here now - if that driver was a man - a good question to ask is: If Mr. Atwood knew it was a man - why did say the driver looked like Maura? Maybe I'll put it this way -> why do the accounts differ?

(I'm just writing stuff down and thinking as I go.)

Part 1

From Hanson Express: "Faith Westman believed she had seen a man with a cigarette, while Tim Westman believed it was a woman at the scene on her cell phone and that the red light from the phone looked like the tip of a cigarette.

...

Faith Westman peered out her window and saw Maura
Murray’s black Saturn lodged in a snow bank a short distance from her home."

It says short here - but - obviously not short enough to differentiate between (cell phone and cigarette) and (man and woman) do we know who had better eyesight?

OK the cruxt of the matter - is *if it were a man and Mr. Atwood lied and said it was a woman - Mr. Atwood lied because he knew him.*

In trying to figure out of it was a man, and therefore Mr. Atwood knew him -

You can speculate that it was no coincidence that the the *acceleration*(that I missed a few pages back - car was driveable) then the acceleration and crash location was not a mistake, ergo, the crash there was purposeful.

Here is the problem with that is ->

If this was not Maura - the person who was driving the car stood litle benefit to crash it anywhere. A crash causes noise - attracts attention - ambulances and police will be on their way.

I'd think if someone had just harmed Maura that that person would want to park the car quietly in an area without buildings. Mr. Atwood could have just picked the guy up if he knew him.

And the underlying assumption is that Mr. Atwood had a twisted agreement: to shelter his buddy should he ever commit a henous crime, most best friends or even family wouldn't cover for.

This just doesn't make sense. I don't think he lied.

I have always believed that the crash happened right there and did not take place on purpose. The car might have had previous damage anywhere between Amhurst and the site, but it was still driveable.

If it was Maura I believe that she was followed and picked up to go to her planned destination. If it were drug addicted theives and murderers attempting to get out of Amhurst - they would just leave on foot, go to a bus station. The cigarette smoking implies someone was waiting for someone else. The person eventually left, but was content to sit and wait for something. Cell phone implies call someone to get you - things didn't go as planned.

Whoever it was They didn't expect Mr. Atwood to show up. Totally discounted the neighbors reactions. They didn't get as far as they wanted to leave the car there.

A cell phone is held differently then a phone - a cigarette creates smoke (but breathing into cold air looks like smoke.)

Secondly - this was night time - truth is that they saw a small red light and an outline of a person with long hair. No smoke to see. Think about it. The key is: at what angle was the arm and was the arm up constantly or did it pull away and make a flickering motion? But if it were a phone or cigarette - that's academic.

What I can't reconcile is a statement that she was in the passenger seat, unless this was a look alike drifter companion. Also, the airbag(s) were deployed. Can't move much when they are deployed. If both were deployed - she wouldn't have switched seats. If only one were deployed, she'd have a reason. I doubt that a car was waiting close by to be used to drive off in - no one would plan to crash the car, rather - just park it quietly.)

A cell phone is held differently then a phone

Read: A cell phone is held differently then a cigarette

Elsewhere, thank you. I did read that somewhere, now that you mention it. I wondered if cloth is something that could be finger printed, or if it had been from a "car-type person" if there were other fluids, ie: oil, gas, grease or 'bus' diesel fuel. That was what I was getting at. Another long shot, where is that rag now? With the rest of the car's contents?

Thank God I dont get creeped out easy with your Front Street reference. Thank you also for the book recommendation......How long is "briefly"?

Hey Cave,
What about a cell phone charger? Mine has a little light on it? Was there a charger in the car?

This is out there, but being in the business, I know some cars have automatic shut off to the fuel upon impact. Has this been discussed?

Half Moon wrote:

Hey Cave,
What about a cell phone charger? Mine has a little light on it? Was there a charger in the car?

I don't know - but possible.- Mine plus in a place not near my face though.

At #939 Lookingfor moose asked this question.
I also asked this questiom a few posts back. Will the family please answer?

OK..this was recently posted on the MMM forum "They would have known where she was heading if they had bothered to check the last phone call she made three hours before she left Amherst. I told the police where she was going two days after the accident but they didn’t check that either" So.....where did Fred tell police she was going? There seems to be some information that isn't exactly being shared by someone other than the Haverhill PD

FireCat,
Maybe you can clear this up for me.
Fred and Maura had picked a Geo for
her new/used car but Fred didn't see
the condition of the Saturn that
weekend is what we've been told.
Do you know other wise?
Citigirl do you?

What proof do we really have of the
Saturn's condition prior to the accident other than she refused to drive it to the local store much less
to her rounds?

What proof do we have that some or all
of the damage didn't occur prior to the
Haverhill accident?

When Fred was questioned about it's condition at Lavoies he couldn't remember anything other than he and
Billy found the key and it started up
a key that was kept hidden on the car.
What proof do we really have this car
wasn't used with or without Maura's permission?

We also have witnesses stating they
heard a thumb so sort of contact
was made correct?

For those of us who travel said road in
Winter Time we also know for a fact the
highway dept clears so many feet past the white line. Atwood stated she was in the road. So where does the HUGE snowbank come from? If she was in said
snow bank then please explain to me how it was possible for Mr. M to see tail lights? Would they not be in said snow bank? How would Mr. M be able to see?
If the snow banks where as high as you
are claiming then would they not be
as high on Mr. Atwoods property lines as well then?

Thanks for your time.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
According to any reconstruction evidence I've heard, NO, the Saturn DID NOT hit those, or any, trees. The police that night said it did, but it's long been said since then that this was NOT the case. First of all, the Saturn would have had to go over a pretty well-packed snowbank and there was no undercarriage damage.
I am not, by the way, necessarily badmouthing the police for this particular mistake. People are human. They make errors. This one, IMO, is one of the more forgivable ones surrounding Maura.

WHITE WASH wrote:

FireCat,

For those of us who travel said road in
Winter Time we also know for a fact the
highway dept clears so many feet past the white line. Atwood stated she was in the road. So where does the HUGE snowbank come from? If she was in said snow bank then please explain to me how it was possible for Mr. M to see tail lights? Would they not be in said snow bank? How would Mr. M be able to see?
Thanks for your time.
<quoted text>

The snow banks were minimal that year--we were in Mountain Lakes at the end of January and there was only a few inches of snow on the ground. We were also up the weekend after Maura disappeared, and the snow was still minimal. There definitely were not huge snow banks....hard icy snowmounds at the side of the road yes, but definitely not anything like other years--not in Haverhill anyway. Even if there was a large amount of snow, they don't allow the banks to get too high because it impairs a drivers ability to see around the bend in that part of 112.

Another question, asked and answered, I am sure, but since we are focusing on the accident, no time like the present. The white rag, from the "emergency kit"..........was the "e" kit in the trunk? If so, did the same person that saw the little cigarette light inside the car, see the trunk light go on at any time or was the trunk light disabled when the car was picked up?

Oddly I did try to rise above this but when my own
Father's death was on MMM which has zip to do
with Maura missing I found myself sucked into
such BS.
Hind sight is 50/50 and just because I don't agree
or support others theories I found more personal information LEAKED HERE.
Now I have found my BIG GIRL PANTIES and just state to the likes of the Sophie Bean's I am not responsing.

Sometimes easier said then done this I know as FACT!

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
White Wash, she was not referring to herself. I know this FOR A FACT because one of the persons to whom she was referring was me. And I don't need a sworn affadavit to prove that I'm only one person, tyvm.

Thank you for the information!
Just wondering if you where out and around
that weekend and can give some insight of searches?

Looking4AMoose wrote:

<quoted text> The snow banks were minimal that year--we were in Mountain Lakes at the end of January and there was only a few inches of snow on the ground. We were also up the weekend after Maura disappeared, and the snow was still minimal. There definitely were not huge snow banks....hard icy snowmounds at the side of the road yes, but definitely not anything like other years--not in Haverhill anyway. Even if there was a large amount of snow, they don't allow the banks to get too high because it impairs a drivers ability to see around the bend in that part of 112.

WHITE WASH wrote:

FireCat nicely said thank you for not bashing.
I am a Photogirl so I will be holding out until the photographs from that night have had their chance with the reconstruction.
We can agree to disagree until that day!
<quoted text>

Sadly, if memory serves me, you're going to have to keep holding out--are these among the documents that AREN'T able to be released? May I ask, are you the one who took those photos?(I don't know how that stuff works up there in NH)

WHITE WASH wrote:

FireCat,
Maybe you can clear this up for me.
Fred and Maura had picked a Geo for
her new/used car but Fred didn't see
the condition of the Saturn that
weekend is what we've been told.
Do you know other wise?

Nope, haven't heard. Sorry. Didn't even know it was a Geo they'd picked out (not that this is an important detail, just a detail.)

If the snow banks where as high as you
are claiming then would they not be
as high on Mr. Atwoods property lines as well then?
Thanks for your time.
<quoted text>

The only answer I have for that (other than who knows what snowplow drivers are thinking, LOL) is that big enough to drive over and big enough to see over while sitting on a bus are two very different things. I've heard there were snow banks that winter.

Looking4AMoose wrote:

<quoted text> The snow banks were minimal that year--we were in Mountain Lakes at the end of January and there was only a few inches of snow on the ground. We were also up the weekend after Maura disappeared, and the snow was still minimal. There definitely were not huge snow banks....hard icy snowmounds at the side of the road yes, but definitely not anything like other years--not in Haverhill anyway. Even if there was a large amount of snow, they don't allow the banks to get too high because it impairs a drivers ability to see around the bend in that part of 112.

Ok.....but would a low-hanging car like a Saturn be able to get over them--coming AND going? Or was that the acceleration-thud that may have been heard?

I'm not disagreeing, since I wasn't up there that winter, I'm just trying to make sense of the disparate bits of info.