Where is MAURA MURRAY

Harry wrote:

I think there is a better than 50/50 chance that Maura Murray was abducted by or with the assistance of what amounts to a loosely organized group of criminals from mostly central/western Connecticut. I think many of these people have direct ties to the corruption case of former Governor John G. Rowland. I think if the Rowland scandal is properly examined, then Maura's disappearance will move much closer to a useful explanation. I also believe that a current Franklin County police officer is marginally involved in covering up Maura Murray's disappearance.

oh, sorry. i was blathering on....and missed this post.
OK - you are now more specific.

Here is an odd one - and I believe this person - despite what is interlaced in the article. Call it a Moulder moment.

Some similarities to Maura's case (maybe if she had a car problem...)

http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser...

"PADEN - The family of a woman who was last seen Aug. 7 wants law enforcement to continue their search for people who they say abducted their daughter from a roadside a few miles from her home.

Some relatives, though, question her innocence in the ordeal.

Michelle Lea Davis, 31, showed up at her parents' Mustang home over the weekend. Her parents, Larry and Barnie Mooneyham, notified the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation late Saturday that Davis was at their home, said Okfuskee County Sheriff Jack Choate.

Davis was apparently unharmed and had no recollection of her time away, Choate said.

"She says she was drugged the whole time," said Choate. "She can't give a description of where she was at. We have no description of her abductors, nothing. She said somebody grabbed her from the back and took her. She has no recall of nothing else."

Abduction claim investigated

Davis was last seen on U.S. 62 a couple of miles east of her home in Paden on Aug. 7. The hazard lights on her car were flashing, the doors were locked and the keys were missing. Choate said the car had a low tire, but it could have been driven."

A Moulder moment because - well - its possible that there are things we just don't understand.

This is on my list of possibilities as lowest - but - I can at least have hope that a miracle could happen - that some unexplained time warp - or unexplained principle of Physics - could suddenly bring all the missing people home.

[QUOTE who="Benjamin "She says she was drugged the whole time," said Choate. "She can't give a description of where she was at. We have no description of her abductors, nothing. She said somebody grabbed her from the back and took her. She has no recall of nothing else."
Abduction claim investigated..........QUOTE]Th ere are medications that can be used that allow the brain to not save the memory of events--I was on one at 14 years old when I was in an auto accident and ended up on a vent for several weeks. I was conscious but remember nothing...I mean NOTHING about being on the vent or that timeframe.

Are you kidding me?
They have told Fred all they can just because
Fred doesn't like it does not mean they have
not told him!

Fred is/was suing the ENTIRE STATE. Seriously
do some research on what really could happen here!

sophie bean wrote:

I am not a member or close personal friend of Maura's family, but it is also my understanding that her family has NOT been updated by NHSP / LE in at least several years, and it is a fact that NHLE did actively prevent Fred from obtaining the police report and other documents that are and should be public records.
I have no problem in the world with LE not telling the family everything that's happening in an ongoing investigation, but to not update them at all is very wrong.

I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone but the recent 20/20 airing on the disappearances and back to back comparisons of Brooke Wilberger's & Maura's investigations reflected poorly on the NH Governor, Attorney General, and LE.

20/20 had nothing to gain or lose by this type of investigative journalism.

It's a little bit too late to fault Mr. Murray for anything.

Maura's investigation has been hanlded poorly from the start and now the rest of the Nation was given the opportunity to see this firsthand/judge for themselves.

I intended to stay away, but the level of absurdity is far too great to be ignored.

White Wash, you are well aware that - "They have told Fred all they can just because Fred doesn't like it does not mean they have
not told him!"- is not true.
Fred sued for the release of PUBLIC documents. I understand that you are perfectly comfortable with the idea that the general public, including NH residents and taxpayers, should not be able to obtain or even view PUBLIC documents, and that those PUBLIC documents can and should be exclusively viewed / obtained by those who claim press credentials if they are chummy with LE and / or PUBLICALLY ELECTED officals.

And PLEASE - "Fred is/was suing the ENTIRE STATE. Seriously
do some research on what really could happen here!" - are you actually saying that suing a government is something that should never be done because "bad things could happen"?
If so, thanks in advance for proving the point that I make below.

However, this remains a democracy with representative government which is, whether you happen to like it or not, responsible and accountable to the citizens who elected these officials.

Since the state of NH was found to be unlawfully witholding this access to citizens, it is completely irrelevant that you happen to feel that citizens shouldn't have that access, and the state of NH was sued quite appropriately.

I will say once again that the level of outrage at the notion that citizens would even consider questioning "the big guys" and their pals, to say nothing of actually questioning them, says a great deal about the climate of NH - both the fact that "the big guys" and their pals feel untouchable and the fact that citizens, as nearly as we can tell, feel that "the big guys" are untouchable.

Lest this seem "too harsh" and "unflattering to locals" - as I understand it, and please correct me only if the things I state as fact are in error - the "restaurant" which recently changed management in Woodsville, the one which was fairly openly running various illegal and dangerous operations on and from the premises, is within a poor pitcher's stone's throw from an elementary school.
Please tell me if it is correct that this "restaurant" WAS known to be runing these activities.
If that is not true, I have been mistaken, and I apologize for that.

*** I understand that you are perfectly comfortable with the idea that the general public, including NH residents and taxpayers, should not be able to obtain or even view PUBLIC documents, and that those PUBLIC documents can and should be exclusively viewed / obtained by those who claim press credentials if they are chummy with LE and / or PUBLICALLY ELECTED officals.***
For someone that claims they don't even live in NH you sure seem to think you know what the people here should do and what they think.
I for one do not have the mind frame that you are portraying the locals as having so please don't speak for me as you could'nt be more wrong in what you write. In my opinion your remarks are made not to help but to further provoke and instigate an argument.
I have not heard this restaurant was running illegal activities. Not to say it never happened but just that I never heard of it.I do know on the weekends the police did walkthroughs to be sure there was no underage drinking and occasionally a fight broke out as is not uncommon in a drinking establishment.
I also totally understand why for the sake of the investigation that ANY documents which contain names of witnesses or anyone else that had even the slightest part in the investigation should be kept private and not made public especially to family or friends.
Just look what happened with the names that did come out on these forums or were made public by the news media. To this day people on THIS foum are still calling these people asking them questions. I'm sure since the SBD was the last one to see or talk to Maura he was questioned more than once but that didn't stop a PI from tracking him down to his new retirement home in FL and trying to question him once again. IMHO these things are throwing a monkey wrench into the investigation as sooner or later the public is going to be fed up(if they aren't already) getting calls and being questioned by a bunch of strangers playing detective which is going to make it much harder for the LE.
We do agree on one thing Sophie..the absurdity is far too great to ignore.

Wowzer, was I addressing you as "you"?
No. I was specifically addressing WW and her outrage over Fred's suing the state of NH.
The "you" I was addressing was WW, period. Not "you people" - not "locals" - WW, in response to her rant at me.

Ye, I most certainly question the apparent feeling by MANY (note that I by no means said "all"!) in the area that Fred should not have sued the state for these records, and that he should simply shut up and go away, and forget about his daughter who has been missing without a trace for more than four years.

You wrote:
"I have not heard this restaurant was running illegal activities. Not to say it never happened but just that I never heard of it.I do know on the weekends the police did walkthroughs to be sure there was no underage drinking and occasionally a fight broke out as is not uncommon in a drinking establishment."

Was any of that an answer to the question that I asked? No. The question was if anyone was actually aware, one way or the other, that what I understand is a fact or not. "I don't know" does not answer that question, and since it is not intended to answer it, is in fact argumentative.

I did not "start" an argument. WW expressed outrage that I thought that Fred was justified and correct to sue the state of NH - simply my opinion.

I have also 100% consistently said that information that is vital to the investigation should be kept safe by LE. I said ONLY that Fred is entitled, as are ALL NH residents and citizens, to information in the legal, public record, a stance with which, oh by the way, a court in NH agreed. I said that it would be CONSIDERATE of LE to periodic update Fred on the course of any ongoing investigation - NOT that they are required to do so.
Kindly refrain from totally misrepresenting what I've actually said.

And, yet again, a non-answer in the form of an outraged local attack for a slight that was never made obfuscates the actual question.
Where there's smoke, as the saying goes, there's fire. You, Wowzer, continue to confirm my belief that anything that happened to Maura happened in or near Woodsville. There is NO other reason for locals to be so defensive.

Wowzer wrote:

*** I understand that you are perfectly comfortable with the idea that the general public, including NH residents and taxpayers, should not be able to obtain or even view PUBLIC documents, and that those PUBLIC documents can and should be exclusively viewed / obtained by those who claim press credentials if they are chummy with LE and / or PUBLICALLY ELECTED officals.***

For someone that claims they don't even live in NH you sure seem to think you know what the people here should do and what they think.

Well, that one's a federal issue, not pertinent to living in NH.

I for one do not have the mind frame that you are portraying the locals as having so please don't speak for me as you couldn't be more wrong in what you write.

She wasn't portraying the locals there. She was portraying White Wash. Glad to hear that's not how you feel--not because she wasn't trying to speak for you (which she wasn't) but just because I'm glad to hear you don't have the frame of mind that is ok with people not being given access to public documents.

Here's a rhetorical question for anyone here. God forbid that it should ever happen to any father's child in Grafton county.

Your daughter goes missing. She's 20 years old, an "adult" so she's entitled to go missing. Local LE does not search, barely investigates, and hides what police report exists, though it isn't much. They go on to conceal ALL information about the case, refuse to discuss it with you in any way, accuse you in the media of being a crank and your daughter of being a suicidal runaway.

Is anyone here seriously telling me that you WOULDN'T do what Fred has done, or more, if it were YOUR daughter who was missing?

If you say, "yes, of course I would" - then you had best not be quite so disdainful and resentful toward Fred and Maura's whole family.

If you say, "no, I wouldn't do that" - well, I guess I need to leave that right where it falls.

What would YOU do to protect / find your child?

What I am actually saying without you twisting it is this!

Those of us researching this CASE have obtained
public information simply by requesting it!

Once it became a LAW SUIT then a CRIMINAL CASE
it CHANGES PUBLIC INFORMATION!

I don't give a RODENTS RUMP what you think cause you what FRED MURRAY HAD ACCESS TO IT ALL and the plain and simple FACT HE didn't want it or do anything with it when had is really is who's FAULT?

Come on Seriously Fred was told by FBI to GET THE CAR he requests it be crushed!

Fred has the computer doesn't copy the hard drive!

Kathleen has all her PERSONAL BELONGS FROM THE CAR AND SCHOOL.

So they do NOTHING with these ITEMS and IT'S who's fault??

Take your SOAP BOX and try choking it down someone else's throat it ain't this one!

sophie bean wrote:

I intended to stay away, but the level of absurdity is far too great to be ignored.
White Wash, you are well aware that - "They have told Fred all they can just because Fred doesn't like it does not mean they have
not told him!"- is not true.
Fred sued for the release of PUBLIC documents. I understand that you are perfectly comfortable with the idea that the general public, including NH residents and taxpayers, should not be able to obtain or even view PUBLIC documents, and that those PUBLIC documents can and should be exclusively viewed / obtained by those who claim press credentials if they are chummy with LE and / or PUBLICALLY ELECTED officals.
And PLEASE - "Fred is/was suing the ENTIRE STATE. Seriously
do some research on what really could happen here!" - are you actually saying that suing a government is something that should never be done because "bad things could happen"?
If so, thanks in advance for proving the point that I make below.
However, this remains a democracy with representative government which is, whether you happen to like it or not, responsible and accountable to the citizens who elected these officials.
Since the state of NH was found to be unlawfully witholding this access to citizens, it is completely irrelevant that you happen to feel that citizens shouldn't have that access, and the state of NH was sued quite appropriately.
I will say once again that the level of outrage at the notion that citizens would even consider questioning "the big guys" and their pals, to say nothing of actually questioning them, says a great deal about the climate of NH - both the fact that "the big guys" and their pals feel untouchable and the fact that citizens, as nearly as we can tell, feel that "the big guys" are untouchable.
Lest this seem "too harsh" and "unflattering to locals" - as I understand it, and please correct me only if the things I state as fact are in error - the "restaurant" which recently changed management in Woodsville, the one which was fairly openly running various illegal and dangerous operations on and from the premises, is within a poor pitcher's stone's throw from an elementary school.
Please tell me if it is correct that this "restaurant" WAS known to be runing these activities.
If that is not true, I have been mistaken, and I apologize for that.

Looking4AMoose wrote:

<quoted text>There are medications that can be used that allow the brain to not save the memory of events--I was on one at 14 years old when I was in an auto accident and ended up on a vent for several weeks. I was conscious but remember nothing...I mean NOTHING about being on the vent or that timeframe.

Thank you for telling me that - I was beginning to think that I should look at Dr. Mack's book again.

The common thread I see here is possible car trouble - its not a strong one per se.

That one points to someone with medical expertise and access to the drug that was used on you in recovery.

Really Sophie Bean!

To be honest it's CASES LIKE this that KEEPS
ME being a parent VERY INVOLVED in my CHILD
life. I certainly HOPE THAT IF MY CHILD is in
trouble that THEY CAN TALK TO ME!

Maura talked to Fred last and sadly they didn't talk or atleast that's what Fred is saying!

And PARENTS TO HORRIBLE THINGS TO THEIR CHILD EVERY DAY read the PAPER SOPHIE BEAN!

AND UNLESS YOU WHERE THERE OR HAD FAMILY LOOKING THAT NIGHT FOR MAURA WHY DON'T YOU SHUT YOUR PIE
HOLE unless YOU KNOW THE FACTS!

sophie bean wrote:

Here's a rhetorical question for anyone here. God forbid that it should ever happen to any father's child in Grafton county.
Your daughter goes missing. She's 20 years old, an "adult" so she's entitled to go missing. Local LE does not search, barely investigates, and hides what police report exists, though it isn't much. They go on to conceal ALL information about the case, refuse to discuss it with you in any way, accuse you in the media of being a crank and your daughter of being a suicidal runaway.
Is anyone here seriously telling me that you WOULDN'T do what Fred has done, or more, if it were YOUR daughter who was missing?
If you say, "yes, of course I would" - then you had best not be quite so disdainful and resentful toward Fred and Maura's whole family.
If you say, "no, I wouldn't do that" - well, I guess I need to leave that right where it falls.
What would YOU do to protect / find your child?

Honestly Sophie Bean living here I guess I would
have TRIED TO WORK with EVERYONE INVOLVED AND
NOT AGAINST THEM!

First Press Conference the slamming started!

Go Read it yourself!

Sophie Bean like it or not that WOMAN was a mission to LEAVE U MASS

WHY??????

That is WHAT I WANT TO KNOW.

sophie bean wrote:

Here's a rhetorical question for anyone here. God forbid that it should ever happen to any father's child in Grafton county.
Your daughter goes missing. She's 20 years old, an "adult" so she's entitled to go missing. Local LE does not search, barely investigates, and hides what police report exists, though it isn't much. They go on to conceal ALL information about the case, refuse to discuss it with you in any way, accuse you in the media of being a crank and your daughter of being a suicidal runaway.
Is anyone here seriously telling me that you WOULDN'T do what Fred has done, or more, if it were YOUR daughter who was missing?
If you say, "yes, of course I would" - then you had best not be quite so disdainful and resentful toward Fred and Maura's whole family.
If you say, "no, I wouldn't do that" - well, I guess I need to leave that right where it falls.
What would YOU do to protect / find your child?

Very interesting, WW.
It is clear what you think happened to Maura.

Also, you didn't answer the question - again, deflecting the real question with outrage, name-calling, and screaming capitals.
The question was specific. You refused to answer it. Thank you very much for making my point, as you do so consistently.

And...thanks for bringing me back to the forum, WW. I don't think I feel like"shutting my pie hole" just now.

sophie bean wrote:

Very interesting, WW.
It is clear what you think happened to Maura.
Also, you didn't answer the question - again, deflecting the real question with outrage, name-calling, and screaming capitals.
The question was specific. You refused to answer it. Thank you very much for making my point, as you do so consistently.

I'm not WW, but I'll answer anyway, just like Firecat is always answering for someone else.

Your questions are asinine.

That you would even ask them just goes to being a pot stirrer and a trouble maker.

I have NO CLUE what happened to Maura!
I know what FACTS there are!
I know that I WOULD LOVE TO LIVE IN A PLACE
AGAIN where NO CRIME HAPPENS!

Was there a question? I missed in all the BS you
spell off your SOAP BOX!

What was it would I do everything in my power?

OF COURSE I WOULD and those who cared have tried to do what they COULD have for MAURA and that
wasn't GOOD ENOUGH was it SOPHIE BEAN!

sophie bean wrote:

Very interesting, WW.
It is clear what you think happened to Maura.
Also, you didn't answer the question - again, deflecting the real question with outrage, name-calling, and screaming capitals.
The question was specific. You refused to answer it. Thank you very much for making my point, as you do so consistently.

And even more interesting.
Asking questions - reasonable questions - is "pot stirring" and "trouble making."
I'm not the one who's screaming.
I'm not ordering others to "SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE!!!"
Yet I am a "troublemaker" - apparently I am. Good for me. If that's what it takes to find Maura, I'm delighted to be a "troublemaker."

Let's try the original question again.
Does anyone here know for a fact that the "restaurant" in Woodsville was not running illegal activities within a stone's throw of an elementary school?
Or is that a "troublemaking" questio?
If so, is "troublemaking" actually a good thing in this case?

That was my original, as yet unanswered question.
No, I do not consider "how dare you ask that question? shut up!!!" to be an "answer."
"No, it was not running illegal activities and it is slanderous to suggest it!" would be an answer.
"Yes, we know that they were running illegal activities there" would be an answer.

White Wash wrote:

I know that I WOULD LOVE TO LIVE IN A PLACE
AGAIN where NO CRIME HAPPENS!
<quoted text>

Well, at least this confirms the (73) property crimes,(33) of which were burglaries, reported in 2004 Uniform Crime Report and none reported the year before.