Where is MAURA MURRAY

But I'm also sirious that my points aren't completely invalid.

Al Gore would say...

"He had charts!"

"And he pointed!"

"at the charts!"

WTF you said knowing where to start a search and the mental state of an individual are KEY to knowing how and where to search.
I totally agree and by the way I appreciate your post and the way you present your ideas...One thing to consider is I understood her black bag was quite small, too small to hold the other possible bottles of alcohol. The question there would be where did the alcohol go? I do not think she brought it with her. Her bag would have just held personal things and her cell phone. Does anyone know the exact dimensions of her bag? It may help to know.

Part 1

Ben said above that reading a particular post got him thinking, and the same thing happened to me after reading recent posts, so please excuse the long post(s).

Let's let go for a few minutes of the idea of a serial killer hiding on a cold, dark, lightly traveled road (instead of a mall parking lot where he'd have better chances of finding a woman alone). Let's even temporarily let go of a carjacking or accident with a "bad guy" on that February night. Yes, there are criminals living in every area, but I'd bet many of them were indoors somewhere staying warm and getting high. And the chances are not high that one came along even at the (assumed by many) first accident scene.

If we look at Maura's pattern of behavior we see a good student who seems to have decided to leave college, not just for that week. An old poster here pointed out to me that Maura had really burned her bridges behind her at UMass. Lying to profs and bosses, having an embarrassing-for-a-private-per son emotional breakdown at her security job, lying about having a roommate and the death in the family, both bound to come out later somehow, keeping secrets from her friends who must've felt pretty hurt that Maura didn't mention the Saturday night car accident or apparently tell them about her plan to take a trip. Did she share what was bothering her?
If so, LE will know.

Refrain: I'm not saying Maura was not a good kid, bright, talented and more.

Maura seemed to drink, be under lots of stress, and in the middle of making life decisions. maybe uncertainty about marriage and being a military wife. Add the major, it IS major, emotional impact of damaging Fred's car. Add her breakdown at work. Add her bad judgment in driving after the Saturday night party. Add her friends' concern about her.

Part 2
The odd few items she threw in the Saturn when she left.. Note: posters are wondering if it really was Maura who left in the Saturn.... I sure don't know. But it seems it HAS to be Maura who placed those special, meaningful items in the car. Who else would choose those mementos?
It's still possible she stopped at an off-campus boyfriend's house and an accident, a fight, a break-up, alcohol poisoning, etc., SOMEthing happened there and a cover-up ensued. A second male roommate at that apartment could've made the "relocating-the-Saturn-st aging-plan" work, although it's hard to imagine them going so far away. UNLESS, they saw her written directions and didn't know IF MAURA HAD TOLD ANYONE ELSE WHERE SHE WAS HEADING. Just to get the car away from their apartment or Amherst, maybe in a panic they took that long ride (2 cars in tandem).(This is a little zebra-like.) If the Thursday night phone call was a "break-up" call, maybe Maura stopped over at that person's place one last time before leaving?
IF THE DRIVER'S SEAT OF THE SATURN WAS PUSHED BACK, LIKE FOR A TALLER PERSON, IT MIGHT'VE BEEN SOMETHING MAURA DID TO HELP HER GET OUT OF THE CAR WITH THE DOOR IN THE SNOWBANK. Extra room helps for that or for climbing over the console to the passenger seat.
Refrain: Maura was a normal college student, an All American girl, doing all the hard work, as well as the other stuff college kids do, most of which (the older ones of us) pray no-one remembers.
Like WTF said about horses or zebras (and we're well into unicorns [WTF's idea] on this forum) these things seem to me most likely:
Maura left her room packed up neatly.
Maura responsibly finished a group paper.
Maura responsibly notified profs and boss of absence.
Maura returned borrowed item(s).
Maura responsibly left Billy a message that she was OK and just not in a talking mood.
Maura seemed to make several calls at times she wouldn't have to talk to the person, but rather their voice mail. This idea is from an old MMM poster.
Maura did drink.
Maura had an emotional/mental episode in public.
Maura was making bad decisions (to Fred's motel).
Maura experienced the trauma of badly damaging Fred's new car.
Maura seems to have a very upsetting phone call Thursday night at work.
Among the most likely things to upset a college students are RELATIONSHIPS. Was it a break-up call? Was it a guy changing his mind about going away with Maura for a few days?
Maura probably headed north in her car.
There wasn't a lot of time for a crime of opportunity in her timeline and she apparently didn't spend time at a bar, house party, etc. where a predator has good choice of prey.
The idea someone brought up here rang true: Why would Maura call the Salamones to ask about (a probably pricey) condo rental? On the computer you'd think she'd be checking out Motel 8, Quality Inns, etc. UNLESS she was going with several friends or a boyfriend. Maura didn't seem to spend a lot of money when not necessary. Maybe her friend was already there? Wonder how those units are rented? Weekly, Saturday to Saturday? By the night? Minimum stay required? I'm sure LE checked out everyone registered around the time period of 2/9/04.
If her Thursday night call was a break-up call from a guy, then maybe Maura waited a few days to see if they'd back together and then called the Salamones to CANCEL a reservation?
If Maura had several additional skidding accidents, if she was drinking, crying, air bags deployed, then it's not totally unreasonable that her hair might've been DOWN instead of neatly pulled back. She must've been distraught.

Part 1

Ben said above that reading a particular post got him thinking, and the same thing happened to me after reading recent posts, so please excuse the long post(s).

Let's let go for a few minutes of the idea of a serial killer hiding on a cold, dark, lightly traveled road (instead of a mall parking lot where he'd have better chances of finding a woman alone). Let's even temporarily let go of a carjacking or accident with a "bad guy" on that February night. Yes, there are criminals living in every area, but I'd bet many of them were indoors somewhere staying warm and getting high. And the chances are not high that one came along even at the (assumed by many) first accident scene.

If we look at Maura's pattern of behavior we see a good student who seems to have decided to leave college, not just for that week. An old poster here pointed out to me that Maura had really burned her bridges behind her at UMass. Lying to profs and bosses, having an embarassing-for-a-private-pers on emotional breakdown at her security job, lying about having a roommate and the death in the family, both bound to come out later somehow, keeping secrets from her friends who must've felt pretty hurt that Maura didn't mention the Saturday night car accident or apparently tell them about her plan to take a trip. Did she share what was bothering her?
If so, LE will know.

Refrain: I'm not saying Maura was not a good kid, bright, talented and more.

Maura seemed to drink, be under lots of stress, and in the middle of making life decisions. maybe uncertainty about marriage and being a military wife. Add the major, it IS major, emotional impact of damaging Fred's car. Add her breakdown at work. Add her bad judgment in driving after the Saturday night party. Add her friends' concern about her.

Sorry for double posts ---

Part 2

The odd few items she threw in the Saturn when she left.. Note: posters are wondering if it really was Maura who left in the Saturn.... I sure don't know. But it seems it HAS to be Maura who placed those special, meaningful items in the car. Who else would choose those mementos?

It's still possible she stopped at an off-campus boyfriend's house and an accident, a fight, a break-up, alcohol poisoning, etc., SOMEthing happened there and a cover-up ensued. A second male roommate at that apartment could've made the "relocating-the-Saturn-st aging-plan" work, although it's hard to imagine them going so far away. UNLESS, they saw her written directions and didn't know IF MAURA HAD TOLD ANYONE ELSE WHERE SHE WAS HEADING. Just to get the car away from their apartment or Amherst, maybe in a panic they took that long ride (2 cars in tandem).(This is a little zebra-like.) If the Thursday night phone call was a "break-up" call, maybe Maura stopped over at that person's place one last time before leaving?

IF THE DRIVER'S SEAT OF THE SATURN WAS PUSHED BACK, LIKE FOR A TALLER PERSON, IT MIGHT'VE BEEN SOMETHING MAURA DID TO HELP HER GET OUT OF THE CAR WITH THE DOOR IN THE SNOWBANK. Extra room helps for that or for climbing over the console to the passenger seat.

Refrain: Maura was a normal college student, an All American girl, doing all the hard work, as well as the other stuff college kids do, most of which (the older ones of us) pray no-one remembers.

Like WTF said about horses or zebras (and we're well into unicorns [WTF's idea] on this forum) these things seem to me most likely:

Maura left her room packed up neatly.
Maura responsibly finished a group paper.
Maura responsibly notified profs and boss of absence.
Maura returned borrowed item(s).
Maura responsibly left Billy a message that she was OK and just not in a talking mood.
Maura seemed to make several calls at times she wouldn't have to talk to the person, but rather their voice mail. This idea is from an old MMM poster.
Maura did drink.
Maura had an emotional/mental episode in public.
Maura was making bad decisions (to Fred's motel).
Maura experienced the trauma of badly damaging Fred's new car.
Maura seems to have a very upsetting phone call Thursday night at work.
Among the most likely things to upset a college students are RELATIONSHIPS. Was it a break-up call? Was it a guy changing his mind about going away with Maura for a few days?
Maura probably headed north in her car.
There wasn't a lot of time for a crime of opportunity in her timeline and she apparently didn't spend time at a bar, house party, etc. where a predator has good choice of prey.

Part 3
The idea someone brought up here rang true: Why would Maura call the Salamones to ask about (a probably pricey) condo rental? On the computer you'd think she'd be checking out Motel 8, Quality Inns, etc. UNLESS she was going with several friends or a boyfriend. Maura didn't seem to spend a lot of money when not necessary. Maybe her friend was already there? Wonder how those units are rented? Weekly, Saturday to Saturday? By the night? Minimum stay required? I'm sure LE checked out everyone registered around the time period of 2/9/04.

If her Thursday night call was a break-up call from a guy, then maybe Maura waited a few days to see if they'd back together and then called the Salamones to CANCEL a reservation?

If Maura had several additional skidding accidents, if she was drinking, crying, air bags deployed, then it's not totally unreasonable that her hair might've been DOWN instead of neatly pulled back. She must've been distraught.

I do not think a killer approached her with ether or chloroform. Remember her West Point training. Even grabbed from the back she'd know how to scrape down his shin with her foot and smash the top of his foot. There'd be signs of a struggle. Maura was very, very bright --- she'd have left evidence, managed to leave a shoe, rip out hair (even HERS if she couldn't get at his), leave blood (again you can leave blood evidence by biting yourself if you can't reach the perp, she'd've left SOMEthing. Maybe she did. But her timeline was tight, it was most likely her on those back roads, and even if this happened a few miles from the weathered barn I have hope signs of a struggle would've been noticed by someone, by family searchers, Fish and Game, etc.

Yes, there are criminals around, sick people with no consciences, but I don't think this is what happened here. I agree with those who say the behavior matches a person leaving the scene of a DUI.

Say 5-6 cars passed, say Butch really saw them from his bus, say LE began looking for the one Butch believes Maura got into... I think Maura grabbed a ride and I think the chances are against it "being the wrong person". I think it's a person who gave her a lift, maybe lives out of the area, doesn't follow this type of news, and never realized who she was, or someone reluctant to come forward as the last person to see Maura. She could be anywhere.

If Maura was stressed beyond her capacity and unsure about Billy, about school, about her field, then she'd also lose her plan of working near Billy that summer. Again, it's not looking like foul play to me.

http://www.seasonsnh.com/

If this is the right place, The Seasons at Attitash turned out to be not very expensive -- like some nearby Quality Inn-level motels. As low as $109 per night in winter, and with special 3-4 & 7-night packages. The only odd thing was that the smallest units I saw were 2-bedroom units and they seemed huge! Much too big for me to feel comfortable in if I went alone. So now I don't know what to think about the idea that Maura was going to go there with a friend who changed his mind, and Maura made the call to cancel the reservation?

sophie bean wrote:

WTF wrote: <quoted text>Rooney is believed to have used ether-soaked cloths to subdue and incapacitate the woman in order to sexually assault or rape her.

If you look at more extensive reports and not just wikipedia and not cherry pick the information that you feel makes your point you would see the following material.

The Caledonia County case alleged Rooney twice assaulted the same girl, first in 1996 when she was 13, and again two years later, while she was staying in St. Johnsbury and nearby East Concord. Investigators claimed the conduct was part of a wider pattern of abuse that included occasions when Rooney tried but failed to incapacitate the girl with a chemical, exposed himself to her, drugged a woman several times and had sex with her, threatened to kill that woman, and lost jobs because of problems with female co-workers.

So here we have an adult male trying to subdue a 13 or 15 year old girl and on at least one occasion he failed to manage that. With a 13 or 15 year old girl. If I was looking for an MO to abduct and incapacitate women I’d think twice about this method if it wasn’t reliable on a 13 year old. The one time he did successfully drug her it doesn’t say what the method of drug delivery was. Something in her drink perhaps and not the inhalant that didn’t work the first time?

Since I don’t know or care enough to search with regards to this can anyone tell me if the prosecution established whether Gardner-Quinn was exposed to any inhalants? Her cause of death was beating and strangulation wasn’t it? Its lots easier to get someone in a compromised position i.e. behind them and bludgeon them then to try to grab a non compromised person from behind and cover their mouth and nose with a chemical soaked rag that you are hiding where, in your pocket. Most of these situations, use of a rag over the mouth, are in a controlled environment where no rushing is needed because the subject is already incapacitated and/or restrained and out of sight. Doing it any other way you are begging to be caught. In my opinion.

B.

Anne wrote:

One thing to consider is I understood her black bag was quite small, too small to hold the other possible bottles of alcohol.

That is a very interesting statement. I had always heard the term backpack and assumed it was maybe larger than it was. I have seen those tiny backpacks with string like straps. Not real backpacks at all. I know a lot of school kids use regular backpacks so straightening this out could be of use. Maybe citigirl or friend from school has an answer on this?

Bill

Benjamin Franklyne wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah - but I just wanted to call a Wonder Woman video a PBS documentary.
:) Come on did you laugh or what?
But I am sirious that I think your points are good.

You got me.

Pretty funny stuff.

I didn't originally look at it. I took what you said at face value. I viewed all of them now and your "PBS documentary" is pretty funny.

Didn’t know it was that easy to catch wonder woman off guard.:-O Not much of a super hero. ;)

B.

I am still not quite ready to eliminate the possibility of Brain Rooney having abducted Maura. I'd be willing to bet that LE isn't willing to eliminate the possibility of his involvement in other crimes, either.

I think it's absolutely fascinating that when I (or a few others) give an opinion, we're "blowing smoke" or "distracting" - and when I cite sources for my opinions, I am "cherry-picking" - in fields where WTF "can't be bothered" to look.

How invested do you NEED to be, WTF, in Maura being willfully drunk and irresponsible? WHY do you NEED to be so invested in that?
Or perhaps you're "simply" invested in picking fights with me?
I made a simple, direct, reasonable observation, not at all implausible, not directed at you in any way. You chose to IMMEDIATELY ridicule and dismiss the onservation. Curious stuff.

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
That is a very interesting statement. I had always heard the term backpack and assumed it was maybe larger than it was. I have seen those tiny backpacks with string like straps. Not real backpacks at all. I know a lot of school kids use regular backpacks so straightening this out could be of use. Maybe citigirl or friend from school has an answer on this?
Bill

There used to be a photo of a backpack very similar to the one Maura had. Billy's Mom had picked out the photo. It's no longer on the website. However, I remember the backpack because my son had the exact same backpack all the way down to the make and model.

This is a link to a photo of one that looks exactly like it - with the exception of the side pockets. Take those away.(According to Billy's Mom, Maura did not carry a purse. She wrapped her money around her driver's license/credit card.)

http://www.jansport.com/js_product_detail.php...

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
There used to be a photo of a backpack very similar to the one Maura had. Billy's Mom had picked out the photo. It's no longer on the website. However, I remember the backpack because my son had the exact same backpack all the way down to the make and model.
This is a link to a photo of one that looks exactly like it - with the exception of the side pockets. Take those away.(According to Billy's Mom, Maura did not carry a purse. She wrapped her money around her driver's license/credit card.)
http://www.jansport.com/js_product_detail.php...

Want to add to this.......these dimensions look the same in the photo; however, I would NOT use the actual dimensions listed on this web page. The one on this web page could be "deeper" and could be "more wide." It's difficult to tell. But it wasn't one of those "string" kind that you, WTF, were talking about.

Since she didn't carry a purse, I wonder about what was in the backpack. I mean, most women carry everything but the kitchen sink in their purses.

I have a feeling that Maura would not have been similar enough to be that way. Nonetheless, I wonder what else was in the backpack; i.e., was there room for 3 bottles of alcohol PLUS what she normally carried in the backpack?

Lady Gray, I can't remember Sharon giviing this description, but it appears it is larger than I thought..thank you.

Sophie Bean, I would not dismiss Brian Rooney, after all he was in the area working when Maura disappeared. It appears they have dropped the other rape charges (the ones he used some kind of inhalant which was his method) because he is jailed for life with no possibility of parole.

Anne wrote:

Lady Gray, I can't remember Sharon giviing this description, but it appears it is larger than I thought..thank you.
Sophie Bean, I would not dismiss Brian Rooney, after all he was in the area working when Maura disappeared. It appears they have dropped the other rape charges (the ones he used some kind of inhalant which was his method) because he is jailed for life with no possibility of parole.

Here's another link to one page of Maura Murray's MySpace page that shows another photo. I should've thought of this first:

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm...

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
Pretty funny stuff.
B.

Anyway - I do appreciate your take on this.

Quija, Lady Grey, Anne - thank you all for your posts - great respect of your opinions.

This is the least connected to evidence set of thoughts I have shared - but, to me it makes sense in an abstract way, but now less so.

There are good points made by both Bill and Quija about the result being that there were no signs of a struggle.

One thing I didn't know is that Rooney was working in New Hampshire when Maura disappeared. That makes a difference because, Rooney not being at Amhurst, gives an explanation that ignores the out of the ordinary at Amhurst.

So yes I am now more doubtful.

On the other hand - on the page where I linked to a page where it had a video recording of the person who abducted Jennifer Kesse - I notice a debate as to if the person in the video is a man or a woman.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_o...

What is important about that, is that, the same question was raised by the Westmans. One thought they saw a man, the other thought hey saw a woman.

No I don't think Maura was in Orlando - but this is just another random coincidence that I find similar between the two cases - so I'm more convinced that the two cases are related then I am its Rooney - but I am convinced to a degree. But then again Rooney being a contractor and his use of chemicals (rag and unfinished Kesse condos/apartments) were the two random factors.

So, I'm not ready to write this off - it has been rebutted and I feel that to be very important and valuable.

Also rebutted that I'm not willing to say could not have happened - a wisking away scenario or an Amhurst incident either.

...or a problem with medicine as in the episode of "Why I ran" that they still have not put up at Biography.com .

I am going to try to express my feelings/thoughts...again. There are, and have
been, so many people on Maura's Missing Forum's...and even more so now on Topix that nothing happened to Maura in the area of 112.
There are more who think that something happened to her in and around Amherst, MA....maybe into VT BEFORE crossing the CT River into NH.
I certainly do not know where, or how she disappeared. Unless people, citizens, such as hunters, hikers, Fish and Game, LE and/or PI's are truly looking for her, I don't see any validation of Maura's death.
But, I know/feel that she is no longer..........

Again, only my thoughts and feelings, now being almost 5 years, if Maura was my daughter, I would beg and appeal, to please...at least tell me where I could find her, so I could I could bring her home and say Good-bye, I love you.

Recently, to me, Justice seems to fade away a bit...just a bit, when one considers
the facts of the anger and the murders, killings that appear to be prevalent
within a seemingly small population. I don't believe that the Haverhill area
will ever solve, or will make whole, this Maura criminal investigation.

To Silky/Beth..you would be now Jack Benny's age..rip!...phfftt! quack! XO!

ps it this Post repeats..it is not my fault.arrgh