Where is MAURA MURRAY

JMO wrote:

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Well stated, White Wash.
I'll interrupt my Thanksgiving preparation to comment.
Since a few have admitted to being nurses here, and since this group of little hens is so quick to sterotype Maura and be privy to her innermost thoughts...I will add by way of perspective that nursey-nurses tend to be sterotypically 'tough', like to exert their authority, and expect compliance...from the patient, or whomever.
Hence, the nut crackin' solid-core group of theorists we find on this PUBLIC thread.
Posts 8211-8216 are a rehash of possibilities, none of which can be confirmed.
As a little background info., White Wash, you may or may not know that the MM folks were actively recruited to combine forces, so to speak, and tie together the issues of Maura's disappearance and Liko Kenney's death just after the MM site folded. Hence, this thread began.
The unifying force was and is, to my knowledge, the condemnation of NH LE.
Seemingly, one needs to confirm the AG's unwillingness to reopen the case of Liko Kenney and absolve him of his actions in killing a police officer, while also believing the poor response of LE to be the failure in finding Maura Murray in order to belong to the 'club'.
It is tasteless and offensive, in my opinion, for strangers to probe into Maura's private life with half-hearted apologies to Fred Murray.
Maura remains a victim of unknown circumstances. Until she is found, or until a witness steps forward, all the speculating in the world will not solve this mystery.

Speculating will slove this mystery because that is all we have, what we need is a grand jury to investigate her disappearance, the statements of the witnesses and the actions and non-actions of the police in the investigation of the accident and Maura's disappearance as well as an internal review of the police involved in the investigation.

In Canada we have the privledge to call for a public enquiry into the actions of any government offical, department, our Prime Minister the whole nine yards, unfortunately you in the States to do have the anvenue to question the actions of governments and their subsiduaries. Police are public employees paid out of the coffeurs of the public and are answerable to the public and the public have the right to question their actions and non-actions.

your comments about nurses and the group on the MMM are just off the wall and not worthy of comment.

Given that I have more in common with Maura than not, one can ask themselves what they would do in a given situation and althought it is speculation, isn't that what profilers do?

Might I ask you what you are offerning here, other than being critical, it is your right of course, but it is hardly helpful.

Regarding your comment about my half-hearted apologies to Fred, please don't put words in my mouth because you have no idea that it is half hearted. Fred has thanked the members of the MMM for their encouragement and hardwork seeking justice for Maura.

I have posted on Maura's sites since the beginning, and have offered much in research and ideas, and there is no question that I care, for no other reason than I do. Incidentially, the site folding because A%%H*&^% brought too much havoc and negativity to the site, and those moderating simply got tired of the guff.

In case you do not understand the whole point of writing about Maura is to get the Attorney General, the District Attorney to call a grand jury to investigate this matter, or whatever way leads the path to justice.

Law enforcement in this case has not done at stellar job in Maura's investigation. I am new to this site, but FYI I do not battle, so negative comments are wasted on me....

Happy Thanksgiving

My thoughts are that she was upset because of any one (or more) reasons: her relationship to her boyfriend, or the acquisition of a new boyfriend (and the inner conflict that caused), the accident of a possible acquaintance a few days before, strained relations with her family, stress from school and work, or my best guess, alcoholism. She wrecked her father’s car just a few days before disappearing, after having spent time at a dorm party. She was probably drunk. She probably partied herself silly over a number of months, became addicted to alcohol, and felt trapped. So, she decides to take off into the mountains. A lot of people think that she couldn't have possibly done this for a number of reasons. Well, this was obviously a tough girl in some respects. She jogged 5 miles day, learned survival techniques via military academy training, and even her mother says she knew how to survive in the woods. She was smart, and also desperate. So, she considers a number of places for her escape. I think in the end she had the Vermont directions in her car to throw people off. She was carrying the book "Not without Peril", which is an account of disappearances into the very mountains she was heading towards. I believe that she truly wanted to disappear and that this book inspired her. She wanted to reinvent herself or die trying. Everyone wants to make her out to be a victim, like she couldn't take care of herself, but I think this is false. People also want to make everyone out to be a murderer. In order to carry out abduction here, someone would have been a very, very, canny opportunist. Basically waiting on their front porch, or in a gas station for this girl to just show up randomly. I just don't think so. I think she packs up her room, and emails professors, calls friends, saying that she will return in a week to try to avoid suspicion when she actually knows she is never coming back. She takes alcohol with her because let's face it she has become an alcoholic. She probably wants to desperately quit drinking, which is one of the reasons she is disappearing. Yet, she can't completely abandon it and takes it with her, realizing that she will run out at some point, and she won't be in any situation to get more. Anyone who has struggled with addiction knows how it can be a funny psychological thing, always compromising it to the last possible moment. Anyway, she's drinking and driving, and probably heading towards Bartlett, or Lincoln, one of the places she knows well, in complete and total anticipation of abandoning her car and going up into the mountains. Only thing is, she gets a little too drunk and doesn't make it the entire way. She hits a guardrail, damages her car, and continues on for another few miles until the combination of her faulty car and drunkenness cause her to lose control. Realizing that reaching her destination by car is futile; she decides to start her journey into the mountains early and starts climbing. She's already practically in the mountains, so why waste time. She waits silently, or moves quietly through the trees or down the road (or jogs as one witness claims) and at some point just walks up into the mountains never to be heard from again. I really hope that she survived, and that possible later sightings aren't false. But it's very possible that she just walked into those mountains and let the alcohol and hypothermia take its course. However, she really seems like a tough survivor type girl, and I think it's very possible that she's still out there reinventing herself. Hopefully she got off the booze. I don't claim this to be fact; it's just what I feel in my heart, and what makes most sense in my mind. I truly think this was something she just did on her own, as an act of freedom. Intelligent people often go to extremes for such things when they feel backed into a corner, and she seems to have had the skills to pull it off. I don't think this was a crime. I think she made it.
love always,
mastermind

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

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In case you do not understand the whole point of writing about Maura is to get the Attorney General, the District Attorney to call a grand jury to investigate this matter, or whatever way leads the path to justice.
Law enforcement in this case has not done at stellar job in Maura's investigation.

It has not been established WHERE Maura disappeared, and therefore, to rail against NH LE may be missing the mark.

I doubt the AG's office reads this forum.

JMO wrote:

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As a little background info., White Wash, you may or may not know that the MM folks were actively recruited to combine forces, so to speak, and tie together the issues of Maura's disappearance and Liko Kenney's death just after the MM site folded. Hence, this thread began.

Humph. Well now I'm insulted, because no one related to EITHER of those things ever tried to recruit ME, lol.

Furthermore, discussion of Liko Kenney and/or Chris King was ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED on the MMM forum. The reason for that was so the focus could stay where it belonged: on Maura.

JMO as alittle background info, you may not nor must not know that MM folks were actively discouraged from the attemps from some to tie Mauras disappearance and Liko Kenneys death. This would be one of those elusi ve FACTS! Discussion of Liko Kenney and/or Chris King was ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED on the MMM forum. The focus there always stayed where it belonged with Maura.

FireCat wrote:

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Humph. Well now I'm insulted, because no one related to EITHER of those things ever tried to recruit ME, lol.
Furthermore, discussion of Liko Kenney and/or Chris King was ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED on the MMM forum. The reason for that was so the focus could stay where it belonged: on Maura.

Yes, Firecat, it is also my understanding that there was once resistance to co-mingling...that is, until just about a year ago.

It would be a shame to bring the focus away from Maura, or to import the hostility toward LE that has sometimes seeped onto this thread from another.

Mastermind wrote:

... my best guess, alcoholism. She wrecked her father’s car just a few days before disappearing, after having spent time at a dorm party. She was probably drunk. She probably partied herself silly over a number of months, became addicted to alcohol, and felt trapped.

Without room to disagree via the judging icon, I find it hard to believe that anyone, especially this 21 y/o student/athlete, could easily become "addicted to alcohol" by partying "...herself silly over a number of months".
MONTHS?
By this standard, most college freshmen would be confirmed alcoholics.

Has anyone ever come forward to state they recognized a pattern of overdrinking-to-drunk behavior in Maura's socializing or coping?

No DUI's, right?

Anne wrote:

JMO as alittle background info, you may not nor must not know that MM folks were actively discouraged from the attemps from some to tie Mauras disappearance and Liko Kenneys death. This would be one of those elusi ve FACTS! Discussion of Liko Kenney and/or Chris King was ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED on the MMM forum. The focus there always stayed where it belonged with Maura.

Please see my post to Firecat, Anne.
I agree that the focus should be on Maura.

JMO wrote:

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Yes, Firecat, it is also my understanding that there was once resistance to co-mingling...that is, until just about a year ago.
It would be a shame to bring the focus away from Maura, or to import the hostility toward LE that has sometimes seeped onto this thread from another.

Just about a year ago is when Helena became (for those who don't know this, it's not an exaggeration) deathly ill, is it not? I suspect that in her absence, other moderators trying to keep up with the board had a hard time "cracking the whip" on keeping the focus on Maura and not LK etc, and perhaps that's why you observe that just about a year ago it seems to have shifted. I hadn't necessarily noticed, which doesn't make it any less true. It just wasn't really on my radar. I always mostly ignored the LK/CK business.

JMO wrote:

<quoted text>
Without room to disagree via the judging icon, I find it hard to believe that anyone, especially this 21 y/o student/athlete, could easily become "addicted to alcohol" by partying "...herself silly over a number of months".
MONTHS?
By this standard, most college freshmen would be confirmed alcoholics.
Has anyone ever come forward to state they recognized a pattern of overdrinking-to-drunk behavior in Maura's socializing or coping?
No DUI's, right?

I would tend to agree, and IF Maura had a problem with alcohol, it would likely have to have started much earlier for it to have gotten to such a point by the night of her disappearance. I don't know what went on under the radar at West Point, but that's where it would have been, chronologically speaking.

There has been strong evidence indicating the possibility of a police cover-up. Has the first officer to arrive at the scene of the accident ever been investigated? He would've realized right away that she had been drinking and that she had hit her head and could possibly have head trauma so the opportunity to take advantage of her was as easy as ever. This would also explain why this has been one of the worst-investigated cases in the history of New England law enforcement - obviously the police don't want to humiliate and embarrass themselves by arresting one of their own in their most highly-publicized case. They'd rather hide the truth than admit one of their own could do something like this.

It would explain EVERYTHING. Investigators with the FBI (a LE agency of non-biased investigators that actually know what they're doing) should investigate the first officer to arrive at the scene of the accident as well as the bus driver.

I've read several hundred of the comments on this thread about Maura Murray, and it seems that either (a) some of the local townspeople have serious psychological issues and sadly crave attention, or (b) some of the local townspeople know of what really happened and are not talking about it. For those of you who may know anything, please think of what this family is going through every single day. They live in pure misery every single day not knowing what happened to Maura. It costs you nothing to anonymously help them out. No one will ever know it was you. That's the beauty of the Internet. So help them out.

mastermind,

Whoever gave you that nickname has a great sense of humor. Anybody who thinks she was doing all of this to get away, to simply disappear, fails to put the least bit of thought into her situation. I've realized in my life that not everybody has the ability to put themselves in someone else's shoes to try to imagine what they're thinking. Some people just don't have that part of the brain; they can't try to imagine how somebody else thinks. They're just not capable. I sincerely don't mean to be offensive but I'm sure I'll offend the many people who think they might fit into that category.

Anyway, those of you assuming she purposely ran away aren't thinking logically or rationally at all. If she intended on running away, why would she intentionally leave a huge, bizarre mystery behind as to her whereabouts when she could've easily just driven to Canada and disappeared for good without leaving a single trace behind? If she had a half of a brain and wanted to run away, she wouldn't have left behind a HUGE mystery to her whereabouts as this would defeat the ENTIRE PURPOSE of disappearing, as so many of you are ignorantly claiming she did. Why would she have called her boyfriend just a couple hours before and also called an 800 hot line [and, btw, there is absolutely nothing wrong with lovers talking for less than a minute - he could've been busy, just saying hi, etc, etc. Probably 50% of the calls to my gf are under 2 minutes]? She perfectly timed and executed her car to spin around twice and crash in between two trees? And, in the middle of this random spot, she just happened to execute her plan of escaping reality without being seen by a single person? She was maybe picked up by this secret somebody that she never called (her phone records were analyzed)? He just happened to know exactly where to pick her up, right? The exact spot was planned to a T? Yes, an engaged beautiful woman decided to meet some guy that she doesn't know that she met online in the middle of a deserted rural area in New Hampshire after she intentionally crashed her car just so she could leave her perfect life behind for this guy she doesn't know. That makes sense. Hey, maybe Bigfoot just picked her up and carried her into the woods where they were abducted by aliens. Saying she ran away is a ridiculous, illogical, and irrational theory. Her phone records were analyzed - other #'s would have shown up if she was planning on running away.

The biggest clues to this mystery lie in the fact that (a) she had been drinking, and (b) she had hit her head on the windshield. To those of you thoughtlessly claiming she "ran away", did she just fake smashing her head on the windshield? Numerous accounts detail how people with head trauma normally may act, talk and seem fine but are really thinking irrational. ANYBODY, including the police officer who arrived, the bus driver, or anybody else who happened to pass by, could have seen in a matter of seconds that she was drunk, injured and vulnerable, and could have easily taken advantage of her. This makes infinitely more sense than trying to "disappear" but leaving one of the biggest mysteries in the history of New Hampshire behind you, defeating the entire purpose of "disappearing" and rather making you and your life 100 times more known. If she ran away, do you honestly think she would have went FOUR and a HALF YEARS now without a single sighting of her? She may have known some basics about surviving the woods, but that doesn't mean she's capable of living in the woods of New Hampshire through winter, or that she'd want to live like that as opposed to living a normal life. But to those of you living in a fantasy world and believing the most absurd conspiracy theories imaginable, keep thinking the way you do.. it's really not your fault.

Logic points to her being abducted. Somebody needs to speak up.

just a thought...you echo the sentiments of many....we struggle to wade through these "brain washed" posts everyday in an attempt to highlight the obvious, hoping to capture the interest of a media outlet willing to go the distance it will take to solve Maura's case.

I'm amazed by the complete illogical meanness on this site. It seems when someone has a differing opinion, they just want to be mean towards that person in order to make their opinions seems more legit. This is not constructive dialogue. When you make the LEAST amount of assumptions regarding this case, I honestly believe that my analysis is the most obvious. And I would prefer that if you disagree with me, that you do so politely. "Just a Thought" just added a number of assumptions to my analysis, and put a number of words into my mouth, that I didn't say, and then attempted to rebuke my POV by using these assumptions as evidence. That is really sad. To just insult me and say that I didn't put any thought into this is outrageous. Then, to go on the attack by putting words into my mouth is even more outrageous. Get a grip. I don't think she intended to leave a bizarre mystery, rather, I feel that she probably didn't care if she did, as long as she was able to get away. I feel like that she didn't go to Canada because she didn't want to. She knew where she wanted to diappear, and she almost made it to the place she had in mind before she became too drunk to drive. I think she wrecked her car, kept driving, and soon lost control of the vehicle entirely within a few miles, slamming into the snowbank and trees, accidently hitting her head, her arm, whatever, into the windshield. You totally put words into my mouth when you said that I said it was staged. I don't think it was staged at all (in terms of the car accident). No one wants to believe that she was alcoholic because that ruins the vision that people have of this girl. However, everything to me points to her having been an alcoholic. And having known a lot alcoholics in my life and having addiction problems myself, I can totally see where she is coming from. She had "Not Without Peril" in her car, which is an account of people disappearing into the mountains to die (whether or intentionally or not, depends on the case). I don't think she thought through everything, and when she wrecked her car, her plans were altered drastically. She was probably planning to leave it in a parking lot somewhere (Probably in Lincoln). Anyway you look at it, she obviously succeed in disappearing, whether or not she did everything "properly" or not. I think she calls her boyfriend because she honestly loves him and regrets having to hurt him. Yet, I don't think her love was enough for her to stay. I don't think she was picked up by a secret somebody. Perhaps she was picked up by a random somebody, and perhaps that led to a terrible fate. I don't know. However, I do believe with all my heart that she wanted to disappear, and whether she met her demise trying, I don't know. I don't think she disappeared because of another guy, and I never said that. You put those words right into my mouth. I think that maybe she had another boyfriend back at Amherst, and I say maybe, because I don't know. But it would help to explain why she felt trapped in the life she had. There is not any reason why she would have to make a call to anyone if she was planning on running away. If I were to do it, I wouldn't involve other people. I don't think she meant to make her case 100 times more known, I think that was an accident. I think she was probably an emotional wreck, probably because of alcoholism (it doesn't take long for alcoholism to grab you by the throat and turn you into its victim, and I think that is what she was feeling). If she was abducted I can't imagine it happening anytime prior to her accident and the snowbank. And regardless of that, I do believe her clear intention was to run away. "Not without Peril" anyone?

welcome to the several new posters...
JMO thanks for pointing your post out and clearing that up..imagine that?...we resolved something!...lol..thanks again

Mastermind, you clarified several points yourself that I'd hoped you would, specifically about the scene by the car, and that you feel it was indeed an accident.

I do want to clear up a relatively minor detail to your scenario--it has been determined by private accident reconstructionists that the car did not hit either the trees or the snowbank. Don't know if you were aware of that. The damage to the car isn't consistent with either of those things.

I'm curious, have you read "Not Without Peril"? I own a copy, and in my readings, I have never been able to find in it any thread of hopelessness in it. To me it is clearly a book filled with stories of the struggles for survival of those lost in the White Mountains. It was one of Maura's favourite books because it was one of her favourite places, and it always seemed to me that such a book, and her retreating to such a place, would bring her comfort. I REALLY don't think it's a suicide's how-to.

You're of course welcome to draw your own conclusions. I'm just curious what your knowledge of the book and its contents are, because if you haven't actually read the book and your exposure to it is limited to media and forum discussion of it, it's very easy to draw the conclusion that it points to suicide. If anything, it points to Maura's desire to SURVIVE AND THRIVE in the mountains. Or anywhere.

Again, thanks for clarifying a lot of the points that you did. I'm constantly trying to remind people that words on a screen are quite easy to misinterpret, and that we all need to be as clear as we possibly can to avoid confusion wherever possible.

JMO wrote:

<quoted text>
Well stated, White Wash.
I'll interrupt my Thanksgiving preparation to comment.
Since a few have admitted to being nurses here, and since this group of little hens is so quick to sterotype Maura and be privy to her innermost thoughts...I will add by way of perspective that nursey-nurses tend to be sterotypically 'tough', like to exert their authority, and expect compliance...from the patient, or whomever.
Hence, the nut crackin' solid-core group of theorists we find on this PUBLIC thread.
Posts 8211-8216 are a rehash of possibilities, none of which can be confirmed.
As a little background info., White Wash, you may or may not know that the MM folks were actively recruited to combine forces, so to speak, and tie together the issues of Maura's disappearance and Liko Kenney's death just after the MM site folded. Hence, this thread began.
The unifying force was and is, to my knowledge, the condemnation of NH LE.
Seemingly, one needs to confirm the AG's unwillingness to reopen the case of Liko Kenney and absolve him of his actions in killing a police officer, while also believing the poor response of LE to be the failure in finding Maura Murray in order to belong to the 'club'.
It is tasteless and offensive, in my opinion, for strangers to probe into Maura's private life with half-hearted apologies to Fred Murray.
Maura remains a victim of unknown circumstances. Until she is found, or until a witness steps forward, all the speculating in the world will not solve this mystery.

Just now this registered: you did NOT just refer to them as "nursey-nurses."

How insulting to the backbone of the health care industry. Just wanted to voice that I'm offended on their behalf. It's not the doctors who are up holding the emesis basin at 3 AM.

It was interesting and maybe important what peri said about this being the FIRST time Maura took a trip like this by herself. Big deal after usually riding with another driver!

It's hard for me to believe that Maura would go out of state to have that clinical procedure done. There are many resources and word-of-mouth resources in that college-filled area. She's also want to tell her primary care physician or nurse practitioner because she knows enough not to lie or withhold from a doc. So it would need to be in her medical records. I admit that being pregnant could cause emotional (hormonal) problems, like sudden crying, as ALSO occurs in the aftermath of terminating a pregnancy. Common and relatively safe as this procedure now is, it IS a huge personal deal. I see this as another possibility from peri to add to our (long) lists. Very, very sadly, it WOULD make her emails to her professors honest.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Just now this registered: you did NOT just refer to them as "nursey-nurses."
How insulting to the backbone of the health care industry. Just wanted to voice that I'm offended on their behalf. It's not the doctors who are up holding the emesis basin at 3 AM.

Absolutely. You should be offended! Stereotypes hurt. They reflect ignorance.

Stereotypical thinking and beliefs about Maura are also offensive. They never fit well.

Here is a young woman who has vanished...likely a victim of circumstances...and several have declared her responsible for her own tragedy by her being too intelligent, suddenly an alcoholic, unfaithful, suicidal...and all by the power of speculation.

Peri what's-her-name rants on...but doesn't like to be stereotyped herself. Who would?

Poor Fred Murray. His daughter is shredded daily like a piece of meat.
Disgusting.

Firecat, thanks for your constructive dialogue. I do not believe that it was Maura's intent to commit suicide. I believe that it was actually a Survive and Thrive intent, and that she wanted to completely reinvent herself, as I mentioned in my first thread. I think my second thread may have wavered from that a bit because I was trying to make a point, which is, that she would have preferred death to her current living situation. I think she probably fell apart, and always had some kind of back-up idea of what she would do if she just couldn't handle it anymore. I believe her intent was to go into those mountains and rediscover herself. Whether or not she made it, that's hard to tell. I'm guessing, guessing, that she probably made it into the mountains initially. Whether or not she survived is anyone's guess.

I didn't know that she didn't hit the snowbank or the tree. I thought most of what I read indicated that she had. If this is the case, she probably just decided that she was close enough to her desitnation and would just start from there. It's possible that her car was stuck, no? Also, maybe her car was just too badly damaged to keep moving. Did she lose antifreeze (I've seen conflicting reports on this)? Perhaps her engine locked-up (haven't seen anything about this)? I really don't think that there was a plan to abduct her, or a conspiracy set up for her disappearance (planned by her or anyone else - I believe she did this alone) and that's my main point. Now, whether or not she was abducted after the fact, that's possible. But I don't believe that the locals of that road abducted her. It's just too far-fetched. If she was abducted, it was probably on the road by someone who was passing through, or sometime after she got into the mountains or came back to civilization for whatever reason. I agree with you that she wanted to make something of her journey (meaning, she didn't want to kill herself), but that she knew the risks of what she was doing, and did it anyway.