Where is MAURA MURRAY

ohio, we do not know who Maura was corresponding with on line as the police took her computer into evidence in July 2004 and will not release it to the family....I am not certain if there was a beer bottle at the scene, there was a pop can under the car with a red alcoholic smelling liquid, someone help me here, can't remember if there was a beer bottle. Initially I read in the news that there was a beer bottle, but they it was denied, and then someone said there was? There was nothing reported in her cell records that shows she was in a secret laision or calling on her cell phone, who she might have called from a pay phone or otherwise is not known.

looking4amoose: what is a PA programme?

Anne...your words this past Wednesday, Post #8202..."we will never quit". really struck me...and I agree, as do so many here. There have been, and will be, many theories and thoughts presented. Most haven't down played
or attempted to conceal any unpleasant truths.

We have, for 4 years, of Maura's Forum, and now with Topix, had many assumptions, theories and thoughts. That is because that is pretty much all we have. Nobody is right or wrong.
Literally hundreds of people wrote their thoughts and feelings on the MMM Forum. Some gave up. Speaking only for myself, I am not giving up.

One thing I do know, is that I know when my old 95 Saturn is running on 3 cyclinders, I can still drive it 130 miles to Haverhill, NH
It isn't a fun trip ...but, it is possible...ie a spark plug doesn't improve with time. duh..! It is 5 spd. std. shift...so it does take some "creative shifting"...Guess it would depend on the tenacity of a driver.
I think Maura packed her car and Maura drove North.
But, then again, do we really truly know that Maura's car had NOT been serviced, prior to 2/9/04...?

Someone spoke earlier about Fred. I met and talked with him. Trust me ...He knows who is genuine in their feelings..and who
is ....well......anyway..the difference....."naughty or nice"...

I also know this discussion will not solve this crime. However, ignoring this crime, will not make it go away.

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

For those of you new to the forum, it would be best to ignore the comments of those who have little to say other than being a peanut gallery.
Although I am new here, my shell is hardened by experience of looking for missing persons and lobbying for justice for the same on public forums. I simply don't respond to the negative comments or argue, and as you can see, many people here offer little other than their opinion on what other people say, and have little of value to say otherwise, the proof is in the pudding.
Ironially I went to other topics on the topix, and the same people are making negative comments there also.
Don't be discourage, just keep on going, Maura needs your help, we need to lobby for justice, don't let the A$$H01&$ get you down..this is about justice, not the sticks and stones people throw.
Keep on posting! Tell yourself, it is mind over matter, I don't mind and they don't matter.

Fair-minded people don't need to resort to ugly namecalling.

You stress you are "new" to the forum, but you are previously known to several here. How odd.

Lobbying for 'justice'? Is Maura a victim of injustice? In NH or MA?
Wow. Conspiracy theorists abound.

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

ohio, we do not know who Maura was corresponding with on line as the police took her computer into evidence in July 2004 and will not release it to the family....I am not certain if there was a beer bottle at the scene, there was a pop can under the car with a red alcoholic smelling liquid, someone help me here, can't remember if there was a beer bottle. Initially I read in the news that there was a beer bottle, but they it was denied, and then someone said there was? There was nothing reported in her cell records that shows she was in a secret laision or calling on her cell phone, who she might have called from a pay phone or otherwise is not known.
looking4amoose: what is a PA programme?

Physician's Assistant.......it was said in an earlier forum that she was interested in pursuing a career as a PA also.

A friend alerted me to this News...

Helena had had a thread on the MMM Forum..

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp...

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

<quoted text>
Maura most definately was in a Pediatric rotation as confirmed by her family. To my knowledge there is no such thing as an honors nursing programme at least in Canada, it is four years regardless.
She was an honors student, on scholarship. Maura left the military because it was not for her, and perhaps that means too stressful. I was born into the miliatry, and all my family is in the military (four generations)and other than being on the battlefield, my opinion is that nursing is more stressful, because you are dealing with sick people in a system that is stressed, overworked, and understaff. I'd give anything to have the jobs my family has, and there is no way they could cope with looking after sick people. Just my opinion of course.

Maura's family originally said she was in her first semester of clinicals yet she was actually in her second semester. Umass does have an honors nursing student program--here's the info on it "The Honors Program at the School of Nursing The School of Nursing offers a departmental honors track. Together with Commonwealth College, we offer outstanding academic experiences and a supportive community which prepares you for intentional engagement in a diverse world and in issues of social justice. For final projects our students have done amazing work such as: a cultural immersion experience in the Dominica
Republic, development of a seminar series on complementary alternative therapy, and health teaching with homeless populations.
Would you like to make a difference? Join us."

There's also Sigma Theta Tau, the National Honor Society of Nursing that is present around the world that only certain third and fourth semester RN students are invited to join. I, too, am an RN. I don't though, find it stressful at all.I believe that we should all enjoy what we do and do what we enjoy. I'm also working on a Masters at UMass Boston so I have been able to learn some specifics about their overall programs. In fact, there is a male nursing student who is also missing from UMass Dartmouth.

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text> Physician's Assistant.......it was said in an earlier forum that she was interested in pursuing a career as a PA also.

thanks L4M for the info, I was not aware of Maura wanting to be a Physicans' Assistant, we do not have such an a thing here, not a programme anyway, we have Nurse Practitioner, Nurses who have certain authorities like Doctor's but you must work under the auspices of a Doctor, writing prescriptions for antibiotics, certain medicines, ordering blood tests, treatments,, x-rays etc. As far as I know we have no honours nursing here.

Thanks also for the information re: honors nursing in the post below..

Police departments do not investigate missing person cases because they assume no crime has been committed and the person eventually will show up, which often happens. They think that they're wasting their time if they assign a detective to work the case, and they typically will wait for at least a month to see if the person still is missing before they will do anything -- even if the missing person's family is calling everyday demanding action.

When people criticize police for refusing to share information with other agencies or with the families of persons reported missing, the police default response is to claim that sharing, particularly with non-police personnel, will compromise the investigation by revealing information known only by police and the perpetrator. They argue that such information must be kept secret so that they can distinguish between false and truthful confessions by suspects as well as screening tips they receive from callers reporting that a certain person is the killer. Both situations occur relatively often, particularly in high profile cases, so their argument has some merit. Sensitive and potentially embarrassing information about a victim, a suspect, or a member of their respective families might also cause undue harm if released and police have a legitimate fear that a member of a victim's family might give in to the urge to take justice into their own hands.
If the cops who responded to the scene of Maura Murray's car wreck thought she might have wandered off down the road or into the woods they should have checked the roads in the vicinity for several miles from the location of the crash looking for her and, if they did not find her, they should have assembled a search party with dogs to search the woods for her starting no later than the following morning. Based on the information available, they had reason to believe that she might have suffered a head injury, been confused, and set off walking with no idea where she was going. She could have been hit by a vehicle if she was walking in the road or she might have become immobilized by a fall in the woods and frozen to death, or gotten lost and frozen to death. She might also have been inside a nearby house negating the need for a search. Time was critical because she could not have wandered far and the temperature was below freezing. They did not actually have to search through the woods that night because she would have seen their spotlights and emergency strobe lights and heard them shouting her name from the road. She would have responded if she was there. They also could have scoped out the nearby town relatively quickly. Of course, they also should have called her family.
If these tactics had been tried without success and she did not attempt to recover her car in the morning, the police would have realized that something was very wrong and they should have commenced an aggressive investigation, including BOLOs, knock-and-talks, and requests to walk through every house within a mile of the crash site.
The police deserve to be criticized for what they did not do that night and the following days because even though they lacked evidence that she had been kidnapped, at least initially, they certainly had good medical and safety reasons to make a reasonable effort to locate her.

JMO I wrote on the original MM forum since the beginning...that is why I am known by many of the posters here..

Shack, thanks for the information on the missing man who has been found, I was unaware that he was missing, tragic, my profound sympathies go out to his family....

thinking out loud
to add to my above post regarding the sloppy work of Sgt. Smith's accident report, Ouja wrote a list of some of the inconsistencies see post
4280-4283, good job Ouja. In Nursing we have an expression, not charted!, not done! We are not allowed to leave our shift without something being charted. We are premitted to write L.N., which stands for late notation, however, this would mean, that say we did something at 1000 and forgot to chart it, we write what time we are charting something , and denote late notation and chart what we forgot to write at 1000. We would not be able to do that a day or two or six days later. Not a chance, and an incident report also has to be completed immediately, or at the end of shift, not days later. Nursing notes like a police report are scroscant...any errors must be initialed, and only the words in the chart are interpreted in a court of law, we would not getting away explaining what we wrote, what you see would be all that would be admissible.

I realize that Smith was called to another incident with a youth attempting suicide, however, Maura's report given that she was possibly missing should have been done immediately...and not days upon days later especially since Maura was missing and endangered.

presently reading up to page 220, it is a tough go...

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text> Maura's family originally said she was in her first semester of clinicals yet she was actually in her second semester. Umass does have an honors nursing student program--here's the info on it "The Honors Program at the School of Nursing The School of Nursing offers a departmental honors track. Together with Commonwealth College, we offer outstanding academic experiences and a supportive community which prepares you for intentional engagement in a diverse world and in issues of social justice. For final projects our students have done amazing work such as: a cultural immersion experience in the Dominica
Republic, development of a seminar series on complementary alternative therapy, and health teaching with homeless populations.
Would you like to make a difference? Join us."
There's also Sigma Theta Tau, the National Honor Society of Nursing that is present around the world that only certain third and fourth semester RN students are invited to join. I, too, am an RN. I don't though, find it stressful at all.I believe that we should all enjoy what we do and do what we enjoy. I'm also working on a Masters at UMass Boston so I have been able to learn some specifics about their overall programs. In fact, there is a male nursing student who is also missing from UMass Dartmouth.

I will do a search on the missing student you mentioned, this is curious, is there any news in the media...

p.s. I was a coronary intensive care nurse and nursing supervisor of a whole hospital, STRESS PLUS, I enjoyed my profession but there is little question that the stress is enormous in certain areas of nursing. Also, we have free medical care, and the door is forever rotating....and no one here wants to be a nurse, and I understand there is a nursing shortage in the states as well as everywhere else in the world.. thanks again for the info

http://www.topix.com/colleges/umass-dartmouth...

L4moose...this is a link to the missing student,
Charles Allen Jr. from Haverhill, he was a psychology major, living at the time in New
Bedford, he has been missing over a year!

My sympathies to his family, and hopefully
he is alive and well.

Mason..I would guess that most would agree with
you...although, I would guess the ones who do
not agree are area people who are defensive.
Their taxes pay the salaries of the Town Employees, such as the police department.

Just a Thought,

I already know that I am an intelligent person, and I don't need to come to a forum topic to prove that to myself. That being said, I don't really care how intelligent here anyone thinks I am, since I am posting anonymously. It really doesn't matter what people think of me here. I never wanted to state what "I know" about Maura's disappearence, because I don't know anything. Just like everyone else. We don't know anything at all. We are all speculating, while some of us are just here to bash other people and not engage in constructive dialogue. Anyway, I did want to express what "I think" or what "I feel" because I felt inclined to do so, and I want to challenge those people who want to jump straight into consipiracy theories because they think it is fun and interesting to make this case all about conspiracies and the bad guys, or they have some personal interest in making Maura not possibly capable of any mistakes herself. Perhaps I make some assumptions, yes, but I make much fewer of them than the conspiracy theorists around here. I don't think that her being an alcoholic is an assumption, unless that wasn't her in the video buying a box of Franzia, Bailey's, Vodka, and whatever the other thing was that I don't remember. Also, if you were on a boat with a book that was about a character that jumped off a boat, and you became missing while that boat was at sea, and this book was left among your very few possessions, then, you bet buddy, the first assumption I would make is that you jumped off that boat. I am not saying that I think assumptions are bad things onto themselves, but that in solving a missing persons case, the scenario involving the least amount of assumptions usually solves the case. This case is an anomaly in that regards, I suppose, because the poor girl was never found. When I make these statements and offer up my analysis, it's because I feel that too much emphasis has been placed on finding the bad guys, when I just don't believe there are any bad guys to be found. I think that this investigation, if you want to call it that, will be best solved by attempting to determine Maura's motives, her actions, and her location. Now that four years have gone by, the latter of these three will be extremely difficult if not impossible.

hi Mastermind ,' determine Mauras motives' that is in her prior life .good luck with that.lookin4amoose the research you did about Mauras possible clinical sites is intresting.You are saying Norwood was not an option for Maura. Is this a fact.we were told on the old forum that Norwood and Holyoke were 2 sites for her clinicals .perepetia ,I have no doubt tat the computer in Mauras room was searched either by umass pd or fbi.Area you saying that the Murrays had Mauras computer from feb 04 to july of 04 and did not have it searched by anybody.take care philip

To all the new posters - thank you for your posts -

And not to say I am not thankful to those I recognize - I am -

When you read an argument and walk away from it - know that if both participants are honest - that a clearer picture of the truth about that aspect has been worked out by both arguers.

An unfortunate but necessary pain - to find a solution - almost requiring a "Klingon" ethic "It was an honor to do battle with you..."

It is always a very good thing to read the thoughts of new people and and consider both new and subtle differences in ideas and approach.

Shack Wrote: One thing I do know, is that I know when my old 95 Saturn is running on 3 cyclinders, I can still drive it 130 miles to Haverhill, NH
It isn't a fun trip ...but, it is possible...ie a spark plug doesn't improve with time. duh..! It is 5 spd. std. shift...so it does take some 'creative shifting'"

Shack - you may or may not know the complete answer to this question - I'll understand.:)

When its on 3 cylinders - does it take painfully long to accelerate, is the car still able to get to its top speed?

Now the paradox about this subject matter - we have an inexperienced driver, driving a disabled vehicle on icy roads on a possible route that would require Mario Andretti's driving skills to arrive "on time" for the accident from Amherst (if we believe the generally accepted time line and agree with the battleship map drawn by police.[now showing some doubt and damage])- this factor group is supportive of an Amherst scenario -(but truth is I can see under what situations a number could be)

JMO -> I suspect and respect a professional reason for a recent response (desire does not reconcile with role) but consider if this is correct - its cause. It is only fair for me to accept ignoring of my garble here - but know that I am both apologetic and inquisitive.

get real wrote:

<quoted text>
The whole thing is "public", the "public" has been asked for help,(unsubstantiated accusations have been made against innocent people) and yet everything about her is supposed to be subject to privacy?

get real,
on reread, "unsubstantiated accusations...made against innocent people" is the concise phrasing to describe the exchanges on this thread.

true negativity.

despicable...whether these "unsubstantiated accusations" are directed to Maura and/or local citizens. i condone neither.

By private accident reconstructionists
who donated his time to the family.

The reconstructionist came to this conclusion all via photographs mind
you.

All pointless since LE do have photographs that had and will continue
to stand in a court of law.

For such a crappy job of investigating there seems to be 3 large binders just at HPD of photographs,statements,reports ,labs.

For those who don't own rose colored rims I perfer to wait and see the photographs taken that night up close my
self.

FireCat wrote:

Mastermind, you clarified several points yourself that I'd hoped you would, specifically about the scene by the car, and that you feel it was indeed an accident.
I do want to clear up a relatively minor detail to your scenario--it has been determined by private accident reconstructionists that the car did not hit either the trees or the snowbank. Don't know if you were aware of that. The damage to the car isn't consistent with either of those things.
I'm curious, have you read "Not Without Peril"? I own a copy, and in my readings, I have never been able to find in it any thread of hopelessness in it. To me it is clearly a book filled with stories of the struggles for survival of those lost in the White Mountains. It was one of Maura's favourite books because it was one of her favourite places, and it always seemed to me that such a book, and her retreating to such a place, would bring her comfort. I REALLY don't think it's a suicide's how-to.
You're of course welcome to draw your own conclusions. I'm just curious what your knowledge of the book and its contents are, because if you haven't actually read the book and your exposure to it is limited to media and forum discussion of it, it's very easy to draw the conclusion that it points to suicide. If anything, it points to Maura's desire to SURVIVE AND THRIVE in the mountains. Or anywhere.
Again, thanks for clarifying a lot of the points that you did. I'm constantly trying to remind people that words on a screen are quite easy to misinterpret, and that we all need to be as clear as we possibly can to avoid confusion wherever possible.

whiston wrote:

hi Mastermind ,' determine Mauras motives' that is in her prior life .good luck with that.lookin4amoose the research you did about Mauras possible clinical sites is intresting.You are saying Norwood was not an option for Maura. Is this a fact.we were told on the old forum that Norwood and Holyoke were 2 sites for her clinicals .perepetia ,I have no doubt tat the computer in Mauras room was searched either by umass pd or fbi.Area you saying that the Murrays had Mauras computer from feb 04 to july of 04 and did not have it searched by anybody.take care philip

Phillip: I do not know the answer to your question regarding whether or not Maura's computer was searched PROFESSIONALLY prior to it being taken into evidence, does anyone know the answer to that? I know that the emails were searchec, as we have the email from Billy quoted, and there has been discussion regarding the email to her professor re: taking week off because of death in family...sorry I don't know...

Response to Mastermind at #8293
(CAPS for emphasis)

Mastermind states:

" I never wanted to state what "I know" about Maura's disappearence [sic], because I don't know anything. Just like everyone else. We don't know anything at all.

*** SPECULATION MAY BE INEFFECTIVE IN SOLVING MAURA'S DISAPPEARANCE GIVEN "We don't know anything at all."
ONE CONSEQUENCE OF SPECULATION MAY BE PUBLIC ACCUSATIONS AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE, TO INCLUDE MAURA.

IT IS NO WONDER LAW ENFORCEMENT PROPERLY SAFEGUARDS THEIR INVESTIGATIVE FINDINGS, IMO, GIVEN THE TREND TOWARD CIVILIAN PSEUDO-INVESTIGATIONS.

"We are all speculating, while some of us are just here to bash other people and not engage in constructive dialogue."

*** CORRECTION. WHILE SOME SPECULATE, OTHERS HOPE TO INTERJECT REASON AND PERSPECTIVE.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ACCURATELY DETERMINE AND STATE THE MOTIVATIONS OF OTHERS; FYI, BASHING IS NOT THE INTENT.

YOUR RIGHT TO FREELY SPECULATE EXTENDS TO THE FREE SPEECH OF OTHERS WHO MAY DISAGREE AND WHOSE RESPONSES ARE EQUALLY VALID. YOU CHOOSE TO LIMIT OPPOSING VIEWPOINTS BY LABELING AND DISCARDING.

"I don't think that her being an alcoholic is an assumption, unless that wasn't her in the video buying a box of Franzia, Bailey's, Vodka, and whatever the other thing was that I don't remember."

*** IT IS LEGAL FOR A 21 Y/O TO PURCHASE AND TRANSPORT ALCOHOL.
TO BE IN THE PRESENCE OF ALCOHOL, OPEN OR CLOSED CONTAINERS, DOES NOT PRESUME MAURA'S DRINKING HABITS OR IDENTIFY HER AS AN ALCOHOLIC.

"I think that this investigation, if you want to call it that, will be best solved by attempting to determine Maura's motives, her actions, and her location. Now that four years have gone by, the latter of these three will be extremely difficult if not impossible."

*** IF YOUR EVIDENCE IS FAULTY, YOUR CONCLUSIONS WILL BE FAULTY.

peri...I do believe UMASS tech dept entered the room with LE copied the hard drive, gave one to LE, and another apparently was lost.