Where is MAURA MURRAY

JMO, your purpose here is to clearly argue with people and has nothing to do with interjecting reason. It seems that you are hell-bent from dissuading people from certain points of view, which is your right, but I will let the other readers and posters take my speculation for what they will. I'm not asking anyone to believe me, nor would I expect them to. I just came here to demonstrate my thoughts into the matter, which some people seem to appreciate. However, I find that you clearly have an agenda here, so I won't expect any type of constructive dialogue from you. It appears that you and I have two entirely different modes of discourse, and that our minds think in entirely different ways. You think I am being unreasonable and disrespectful, and I feel the same about you. Feel free to respond to anything I say, but I am not going to respond to you or argue with you on the intricacies of this any longer.

Part 1

Ben and whiston --- I'm understanding now that it's a fact that the last time Maura was seen (100% sure ID'ed) was in Amherst. I can't think of any simple reasons that she was last seen in Amherst and the Saturn found in NH. Please discuss your ideas more. But, whiston, what you've been saying for a long time deserves focus: everything started in Amherst. We don't know who was in the car in Woodsville.
She had very little stuff with her. One poster --- I think it was whitewash --- suggested it looked like the right amount of stuff a person would take HOME. Was Maura headed out of Amherst to go home? To Bridgeport to Fred? Or east to Laurie? Just because she had directions to (and had checked out by phone and computer) places to the north and west doesn't mean she didn't give up on that and just decide to head home. Missing clothing items, like underwear, were probably at both homes along with other laundered items. Whitewash's idea was really good because where do college kids usually go when things've gone wrong or they're worn down? Home. To sleep and hide and treat the place like a hotel.
To the posters who think Maura might have gone up Rt. 93, I just had an idea. Maybe she was heading east to go home to her mom's house, and en route changed her mind and headed north? That could've put her on 95 N to 93 N. There may be a timeline problem with this.
It's also interesting that every time we try to piece together what life was like for Maura in Amherst we get strong reactions that we are hurting the family. I remind myself to be aware that it's a guilt-trip manipulation for us to not go that way. Going over all possibilities isn't disrespectful, it's just a way to try to make sense of or get control over something! Don't we do this with our own loved ones when they get sick? Go over and over what might've caused it?(As if that'll make it go away.)
Wondering if there was an alcohol problem is not an insult to a person's character. It's fact that a young woman can have a well developed alcohol problem by 21. It doesn't mean anything because by 25 she might have dealt with that. Genes, family interaction, pressure, control, etc. are more important that judging a person's character. BUT --- it could have everything to do with being endangered, hurt, misjudging something, or being abducted. Mood swings, crying, pulling off to the side of the road to compose herself...
Peri - we were told on the last forum by a family member, I believe, that one of Maura's clinicals was at Norwood Hospital. She said there had been one snowy night when Maura and her classmate who drove had to stay at Maura's classmate's FRIEND's apartment overnight to avoid traveling the bad roads. That's when Maura borrowed some clothing, not scrubs, IIRC. I agree with posters here who think it doesn't make sense having Amherst nursing students travel halfway across state for a clinical.

Part 2

About running away... for a girl who had never driven herself on a trip before... running away is not sounding right. Taking so few things. Taking so little money that we know of. It would involve a lot of planning and even if Maura had been thinking about it for a while, I don't recall hearing any indication of active plans. Whoever examine her computer would have found some evidence of that. Had she been mailing boxes ahead to somewhere? I think she'd have been noticed.(For years I had to do that or else drag the stuff 8000 miles. Everyone noticed - PO clerks, neighbors, etc.) It still seems that whatever was happening with Maura escalated during her last 5 days in Amherst, with a quick tying up of things.

A poster talked about "reinventing" herself. An MMM poster linked me with some incredible sites about how to do this. Among the thousand examples of what to do to successfully disappear, one stuck with me since it was careful beyond anything I'd imagine: Buy new clothes. Cut your old clothes up into small pieces and flush them down the toilet! Anyway, it didn't sound like Maura was "in the mood" for careful preparations --- she seemed to leave like she was fleeing a fire. I wonder why she didn't wait for the new car? Or for dawn on Tuesday?

mcsmom --- that was great information about the UMass tech copying Maura's hard drive. I couldn't remember that.

Mastermind wrote:

JMO, your purpose here is to clearly argue with people and has nothing to do with interjecting reason. It seems that you are hell-bent from dissuading people from certain points of view, which is your right, but I will let the other readers and posters take my speculation for what they will. I'm not asking anyone to believe me, nor would I expect them to. I just came here to demonstrate my thoughts into the matter, which some people seem to appreciate. However, I find that you clearly have an agenda here, so I won't expect any type of constructive dialogue from you. It appears that you and I have two entirely different modes of discourse, and that our minds think in entirely different ways. You think I am being unreasonable and disrespectful, and I feel the same about you. Feel free to respond to anything I say, but I am not going to respond to you or argue with you on the intricacies of this any longer.

I assert, by way of sustained observation and attempted intervention, that speculation is not harmless, especially when combined with assumptions.

Yes,the very nature of speculation...as to be inconclusive and absent sufficient evidence, runs counter to my thought processes.

While I have chosen not to judge your purpose/agenda, or to make personal accusations against you, I strongly affirm that we agree to disagree.

"peripeteia Nova Scotia" wrote:

Also the Thursday before Maura went missing, she received a phone call that reduced her to tears, that phone call was traced from the University, re: FBI investigated. It was not her sister Kathleen's phone call. This phone call was after midnight, about 0040 I believe."

I've always wondered what the source of the reported second phone call was from. In what I have read, I only saw record of one - but I drew a conclusion myself that since her crying started long after her conversation with her sister - the call with her sister was not necessarily the trigger. However - that speculation would not be necessary in my mind if I saw the second source.

If its not a bother - can you say where that came from. Keep in mind I am not convinced it will change any outcomes now, but perhaps later.

Quija wrote:

Wondering if there was an alcohol problem is not an insult to a person's character. It's fact that a young woman can have a well developed alcohol problem by 21. It doesn't mean anything because by 25 she might have dealt with that. Genes, family interaction, pressure, control, etc. are more important that judging a person's character. BUT --- it could have everything to do with being endangered, hurt, misjudging something, or being abducted. Mood swings, crying, pulling off to the side of the road to compose herself...

Quija ~
To "wonder" whether Maura might have been impaired by alcohol is reasonable.

It is a HUGE leap, arrogant, and an assault to Maura's character, IMO to state:

******
"She was probably drunk. She probably partied herself silly over a number of months, became addicted to alcohol, and felt trapped."
******

Mastermind at #8222:

My thoughts are that she was upset because of any one (or more) reasons: her relationship to her boyfriend, or the acquisition of a new boyfriend (and the inner conflict that caused), the accident of a possible acquaintance a few days before, strained relations with her family, stress from school and work, or my best guess, alcoholism. She wrecked her father’s car just a few days before disappearing, after having spent time at a dorm party. She was probably drunk. She probably partied herself silly over a number of months, became addicted to alcohol, and felt trapped.

JMO wrote:

<quoted text>
I assert, by way of sustained observation and attempted intervention, that speculation is not harmless, especially when combined with assumptions.
Yes,the very nature of speculation...as to be inconclusive and absent sufficient evidence, runs counter to my thought processes.
While I have chosen not to judge your purpose/agenda, or to make personal accusations against you, I strongly affirm that we agree to disagree.

On judging JMO here - realize that there are people whose job it is to sit and listen to people talk about things that trouble them and provide council. With that experience comes an understanding that brings to realization of the walking of a tightrope - the persuit of knowledge and the feelings of those intimately involved. Not easy. So no he's not nuts, trying to flame people or meerly spamming.

However - my position is that the pain will never be gone until this is solved - pain plus hopelesness is worse then pain with some hope that it will end. However - that some of the possibilities will yield no relief - I see the arguement - on an emotional level - that the problem go away or be avoided - however - society's greater responsibility for justice exceeds any individual's needs. But I have respect for the position JMO takes.

JMO wrote:

<quoted text>
Quija ~
To "wonder" whether Maura might have been impaired by alcohol is reasonable.
It is a HUGE leap, arrogant, and an assault to Maura's character, IMO to state:
******
"She was probably drunk. She probably partied herself silly over a number of months, became addicted to alcohol, and felt trapped."
******
Mastermind at #8222:
My thoughts are that she was upset because of any one (or more) reasons: her relationship to her boyfriend, or the acquisition of a new boyfriend (and the inner conflict that caused), the accident of a possible acquaintance a few days before, strained relations with her family, stress from school and work, or my best guess, alcoholism. She wrecked her father’s car just a few days before disappearing, after having spent time at a dorm party. She was probably drunk. She probably partied herself silly over a number of months, became addicted to alcohol, and felt trapped.

I hope that I will be mindful of this subtile difference as a guiding principle - and others as well - but I am very understanding towards anyone who has not taken it into consideration - and am not ready to condemn anyone for missing it unless they are blatent, consistant and insist that they should not be considerate of it.

WHITE WASH wrote:

By private accident reconstructionists
who donated his time to the family.
The reconstructionist came to this conclusion all via photographs mind
you. <quoted text>

This is extremely important information in my mind and any INDEPENDENT[1] body investigating this will certainly stand to benefit by consulting with an engineering firm. One of which I am aware of is here: http://www.hopperengineering.com/

I am personally aware that they could easily make definitive statements about the damage - and NO I don't work there or now know anyone that does.

[1] This is a buzz word by which I am prodding Weeper specifically.

"She was probably drunk. She probably partied herself silly over a number of months, became addicted to alcohol, and felt trapped."

Yeah, this was probably a bit much on my part. Although I do feel that alcohol probably had some contributing factor as to her motives, I probably should have refrained from the "partied herself silly" comment. And I say this because she probably wasn't drinking to party, but as a way of covering up deep, emotional pain.

Benjamin Franklyne wrote:

"peripeteia Nova Scotia" wrote:
Also the Thursday before Maura went missing, she received a phone call that reduced her to tears, that phone call was traced from the University, re: FBI investigated. It was not her sister Kathleen's phone call. This phone call was after midnight, about 0040 I believe."
I've always wondered what the source of the reported second phone call was from. In what I have read, I only saw record of one - but I drew a conclusion myself that since her crying started long after her conversation with her sister - the call with her sister was not necessarily the trigger. However - that speculation would not be necessary in my mind if I saw the second source.
If its not a bother - can you say where that came from. Keep in mind I am not convinced it will change any outcomes now, but perhaps later.

Hi Ben, you didn't ask me, but since I'm following this today... Maura talked to her sister for a while between 10-10:20PM. She got an inter-system call (UMass Amherst campus) after 12:30 am that caused her to break down crying and have her supervisor come to her, walk her back to the dorm an hour before her usual ending time (not to her room since Maura said it wasn't necessary since she had a roommate, which she didn't), ask Maura if she would go to counseling, give Maura her cellphone number in case Maura needed to talk, etc. This is surely in the Hansen Express series, a link given to us within the last 10 pages or so. It's in many news articles and people seem eager to link it to the hit-and-run accident (or other type of accident) of Petrit Vasi, a UMass Amherst student who had been "out on the town" that night, was drinking, and had significant injuries including TBI --- also he can't remember that night.

JMO wrote:

<quoted text>
Quija ~
To "wonder" whether Maura might have been impaired by alcohol is reasonable.
It is a HUGE leap, arrogant, and an assault to Maura's character, IMO to state:
******
"She was probably drunk. She probably partied herself silly over a number of months, became addicted to alcohol, and felt trapped."
******

Hi JMO,
I get it --- I see the difference.

I see the difference too, and it was clearly my mistake. However, it's also fairly unreasonable to attack other posters, attempt to get them in a frenzy so that they make such remarks in a haste, as a means of providing him/herself with the opportunity to use their holier-than-thou attitude towards other posters. JMO really seems to want to play God around here. Let's all praise JMO, the holier-than-thou God of the Maura's missing message board. Wow, you really owned me JMO. You can now add another point to your scoreboard. Congratulations!

Benjamin Franklyne wrote:

<quoted text>
On judging JMO here - realize that there are people whose job it is to sit and listen to people talk about things that trouble them and provide council. With that experience comes an understanding that brings to realization of the walking of a tightrope - the persuit of knowledge and the feelings of those intimately involved. Not easy. So no he's not nuts, trying to flame people or meerly spamming.
However - my position is that the pain will never be gone until this is solved - pain plus hopelesness is worse then pain with some hope that it will end. However - that some of the possibilities will yield no relief - I see the arguement - on an emotional level - that the problem go away or be avoided - however - society's greater responsibility for justice exceeds any individual's needs. But I have respect for the position JMO takes.

Ben ~

It is my nature and the nature of my work to advocate.

While expressing frustration, I'd hoped to raise some awareness and sensitivity to the various comments that I've found to be careless, offensive or damaging to others on this thread.

In my opinion, Maura is already a victim by virtue of her disappearance. It makes no sense to compound her loss by accusations that cannot be verified as fact.

That said, I have participated extensively in a related forum that began with high emotional stakes. A more balanced understanding of the isses has come to some by way of sustained observation.

Truth conforms with reality. File as lessons learned the hard way...don't believe everything you read.

Once again, I am content to simply raise awareness, and appreciate your time to consider both sides.

Everyone says things differently. I think my being so careful in the way I say things isn't really normal --- I was used to others' tempers so as a kid learned to be very tactful, roundabout, etc. to survive. I don't know. Would it be a boring forum if we gave each other extra space, extra chances? Early in this forum one poster said he/she relished any ire because it kept the forum lively! I guess I don't think that's related to the point of the forum. I mean, any news, even dry, boring news would be welcome. Whatever.

Mastermind wrote:

I see the difference too, and it was clearly my mistake. However, it's also fairly unreasonable to attack other posters, attempt to get them in a frenzy so that they make such remarks in a haste, as a means of providing him/herself with the opportunity to use their holier-than-thou attitude towards other posters. JMO really seems to want to play God around here. Let's all praise JMO, the holier-than-thou God of the Maura's missing message board. Wow, you really owned me JMO. You can now add another point to your scoreboard. Congratulations!

Mastermind ~
Persistent and stubborn, yes. Godlike, never. And I don't keep score.
I am grateful you may now understand my point.
I apologize for the disruption.

Now, I can go away having alerted a few to the potential of words to wound, whether intended or unintended...and especially when someone is not here to defend herself.

I do not plan to open this thread again; and with this, I am retiring this screen-name.

Like Natalee Holloway, I hope Maura Murray will be found.

ohio wrote:

Firecat, thanks for the info.
I have a few more questions I that I have been unable to answer in my reading.
1) Is it possible Maura was corresponding with anyone online or on the phone that she might have been going to meet that weekend? Has it been ruled out?
2) Did the police ever check the beer bottle found in her car for fingerprints?

I'd be interested to hear the answer to either of those questions, myself. Along with some others, many of which have been asked repeatedly (here and elsewhere) and lots of new ones that keep coming up.

Glad to help out where I can.

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text>The old MMM forum were simply informed that the clinicals were in Holyoke, Ma and Norwood, MA on Feb 4th and 5th. There was no mention of actual sites but, Holyoke is only about 18 miles away so that is probably but Norwood is about 100 miles away from Amherst. Norwood falls into UMass Boston's clinical area. A nursing school wouldn't send any student that far away because the clinical professor also needs to travel out there on a regular basis to supervise the students onsite.

I wonder if Maura was attending clinicals there under the UMass umbrella?(meaning, among other things, that the professor might have been a UMass Boston one rather than a UMass Amherst one?) I don't know how unified the UMass system is. I know that as a professor, I've been send far afield to satellite campuses and off-site locations many times, often on a regular basis. Not as far as 100 miles, but isn't it possible that Norwood could be a shared location for some students?

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

<quoted text>
thanks L4M for the info, I was not aware of Maura wanting to be a Physicans' Assistant, we do not have such an a thing here, not a programme anyway, we have Nurse Practitioner, Nurses who have certain authorities like Doctor's but you must work under the auspices of a Doctor, writing prescriptions for antibiotics, certain medicines, ordering blood tests, treatments,, x-rays etc. As far as I know we have no honours nursing here.
Thanks also for the information re: honors nursing in the post below..

A PA has a little less autonomy than a Nurse Practitoner here in the states--and they think less "whole person" when compared to a PA. From my experience, they are more diagnosis driven rather than wellness guided. There actually is a large association of PA's in Canada--they are a vital part in serving the healthcare needs of the country.

oops..when compared to a NP......