Where is MAURA MURRAY

...err, that would be "exhaust" systems. And other typos. Sorry.

Mastermind wrote:

Is it possible the the SBD is just plain mistaken when it comes to identifying the girl in the car. First, she was either drunk, appeared drunk, or was faking drunk, which I think makes people look a little different than in a photograph taken in the light of day. 2.) Wasn't she wearing a hood, which would make it difficult to see her hair? 3.) Although it's stated everywhere that Maura's hair isn't long, it wasn't that short either, meaning, that if was "down" that someone could conceivable think of it as long. 4.) It was dark out and the SBD was looking down at the driver of the Saturn. It just seems that it would be easy to misidentify someone given these scenarios. Being drunk, wearing a hood, and looking at a top-down angle at someone will make them look different for sure. It may also make them appear shorter.

Distressed, just slid off the road AGAIN (for hte second time in three days, as a relatively new driver) under emotional stress, in unfamiliar geography, possibly in shock, just possibly hit her head pretty good on the windshield, possibly just got walloped pretty good by the airbag coming up into her face......all of these things can imitate a pretty good drunk.

Also, conflicting accounts have SBD looking at Maura across the hood of the car at street level, Maura in the car, SBD on the bus nose-to-nose with the Saturn, etc etc etc. So who the hell knows what he was really able to see? Especially if his illumination was a set of headlights.

FYI, someone recently posted SBD said it wasn't her. What he actually said was that it looked different, because her hair was down, but I believe he remained pretty sure that it was her. Anyone can confirm or contradict this bit, please do. Preferably politely.:)

ok, I can't type straight, meaning it's past my bedtime. Carry on!

Maybe tomorrow will be the day we find her.

Mastermind wrote:

I've been reading these posts. The rag in the tailpipe is especially strange. I have a mechanic friend that I recently spoke with reagrding this. He says that in the 70's guys used to put things in other guy's tailpipes to make their cars backfire, as a way to scare the crap out of them. Today's cars, he said, may have other problems with this because of sensors. However, he said that any backpressure from the engine would likely to cause the rag to fly out. One way this could be avoided, however, would be to puncture a small hole in the tailpipe closer to the front of the car to lessen the backfire. He said in a very rare case, this may lead to a situation where fumes would enter the cabin of the car and render the person unconscious.

That would have to be a VERY rare case indeed, I would think, especially if the car is in an open area, but I'm no physicist.

And yes, this rag-shooting-out-the-back-of-t he-car scenario has been tested by various members of this and previous forums, and that's in fact exactly what it does.

If you want to scare the pants off your friends, you're better off using a potato, but you didn't hear that from me.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
White Wash, which two accidents aren't feasible timewise? The one Anne heard on the scanner if it was the Route 10 one? Or the one Anne heard, ANYWHERE?
I'm just confused because we've been talking about that recently. I've no real sense of the driving conditions in that particular area, though I'm familiar with mountain driving in general.
Thanks.

Firecat,
The only source of information regarding road conditions on 2/9 are in the NH Uniform Accident Report filled out by Sgt Cecil Smith. One page of the report lists a series of topics with descriptions underneath each one. Officers are supposed to circle the most appropriate description. Smith circled these answers.

Road condition: Normal
Surface condition: Dry
Light: Dark - No Street Light
Weather: Cloudy

There are other categories that don't relate to road or weather conditions. Basically, he says she struck a tree beyond the right shoulder while heading E/B. Under apparent physical condition, he circled "had been drinking."

You can get a topographic map of the area that also displays the roads on Google Maps.

One would have to conduct a series of experiments using various things to block an exhaust pipe and record the results before one be able to predict with specificity how far a particular vehicle might travel before stalling out.

I'm going to make an educated guess here and predict that the cops's theory is Maura stuffed the rag in the exhaust pipe intending to kill herself by carbon monoxide poisoning.

I doubt that would have worked in an outdoor environment while driving down the road and with her background in chemical engineering and nursing I think she would describe such an effort to commit suicide as ludicrous.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks, White Wash, for the HE excerpt. Yes, there certainly IS confusion about this.
Am I the only one who remembers hearing that they were simply street clothes, other than mcsmom? I'm not given to group hallucinations like that, but there's always a first time. ;)

So was this the person in Norwood? If so, she travelled to Norwood (about a 2 hour drive one way) to return them......that has her arriving back in Amherst sometime after 4:00.

Firecat at 8525

My Dear Firecat,

You must expand your horizons. May I suggest an AK-47 to scare people's pants off?

Perhaps a small thermonuclear device? Many of our customers have reported spectacular results with them, and we just happen to have a sale going on.

Potato?

Mason wrote:

Firecat at 8525
My Dear Firecat,
You must expand your horizons. May I suggest an AK-47 to scare people's pants off?
Perhaps a small thermonuclear device? Many of our customers have reported spectacular results with them, and we just happen to have a sale going on.
Potato?

ROFLMAO. I guess it depends on what you do with said potato. They can be some darn scary tubers.

I was, of course, referring to it as the object of choice for tailpipe insertion, but I think you win the prize for funniest post.

firecat ..... you are right, Maura returned clothing.

Mason....if this help the rag theory... blowning up the photo of Maura.s car reveals what looks like melted passenger and driver side plastic floor mats. Back seat window drivers side cracked open.

WW...why didn't HPD give a copy of the police report to John Walsh, America's Most Wanted so he could air the disappearance of Maura within the critical first days following her disappearance?
Or refuse the help of Tim Miller, Texas Eqqusearch?

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
ROFLMAO. I guess it depends on what you do with said potato. They can be some darn scary tubers.
I was, of course, referring to it as the object of choice for tailpipe insertion, but I think you win the prize for funniest post.

For my prize, I would like to receive a gift-wrapped small thermonuclear device, and don't forget the card! Must have card.

Thank-you. Thank-you. I'd like to thank my father. I'd like to thank my mother...

Despite my best efforts, I haven't been able to make the No-Fly List. I've really been down lately and it's been hard to get up in the morning and put one foot in front of the other. Sigh. I couldn't afford to buy a T-MO device, so I've been forced to spread this special salve on my wings to make them disappear, but people still think I'm a fly.

This is my last chance to make the list. Send me my Precious, now!

It's hell having wings when you're not an angel.

Fly, My Lord. Fly.

And may angels wing thee to thy rest.

That would be better than flies, methinks.

Good night.

As usual, I haven't kept up....But, just wanted to add that RO said the plates on the red P/U were red n white, like MA.
Reading back in the Log..for the next day 2/10/04...5 Motor Vehicle stops by PO MC between 4:45 and 6:36 Tuesday AM
2 red pickups ....one red Ford 250 NH reg. 58xxxx red/wht temp.
The other was VT xxxxx (other 3 Mar(oon?) Silver, Grn).
Seems I recall this PO was new to the force....he since transfered to nother PD. a few towns South.

Potato in the tail pipe..? That was something my father told about that was done in the 1930's...of course, he never did that ;-]

Good questions Mcsmom...wonder if an answer
will come, without bile.

Someone asked recently about Weeper ..and a recent Posting..
I did find this #4032...from August 2008. copy/paste..........

" I would like to recap some information that has previously been posted on the MMM Forum and partly on this site as well, with reference to the first “call-out” about an accident on route 112 at or about 7:00-7:10 PM on February 9, 2004.

A witness returning home from her/his place of employment at Cottage Hospital on Goose Lane stated she/he observed a black “Bronco style” police unit with #1 stenciled on it passed her/him heading (with blue lights flashing) toward the intersection of Goose Lane and French Pond Road in Swiftwater. Please have a map of this area to follow along as it gets confusing since these routes twist from Haverhill into the Swiftwater portion of the town of Bath and back into the northern section of Haverhill. Goose Lane and the Cottage Hospital are in Haverhill, then into Bath where it continues south-south west back toward the Woodsville portion of Haverhill. As the witness drove further up Goose Lane she/he observed the police unit continue on Goose Lane back toward Swiftwater. As this witness turned off Goose Lane in Bath and onto French Pond Road and the very short distance on French Pond Road to the intersection with route 112 (the Wild Ammonoosuc Road as it’s called) almost across from the general store, she/he observed the same unit (#1) pass her/him at that intersection heading east toward where the Saturn was ultimately located. When the witness came to the corner at the Weathered Barn she/he saw this police unit, nose to nose with the Saturn (ass-end into the snow bank) but did not see any officers or people around the two vehicles (it is assumed Sgt. Smith was at this point either speaking with the Westermans or down speaking with Mr. Atwood. The witness then continued along route 112 East heading home and flashed her/his high-low beams to oncoming traffic (universal signal to slow down ahead) due to the location of the accident on the sharp curve."

Part 2...Weeper 8/2008

This witness’ account of what she/he saw that evening supports the postings about an “earlier accident” where “female left in private vehicle”, which was heard by others over the scanners up in that area.

What does all this mean then? It means an officer was responding to a “vehicle slid off the road” call, but rather than take the most direct route to the Weathered Barn the officer went back toward Route 10 where it intersect with Goose Lane up in the Woodsville section of Haverhill, before turning back toward the corner at the Westerman’s Weathered Barn. Could there have been two separate women sliding off the road into snow banks that evening within thirty minutes of one another, I doubt it but it is possible none the less.

This information has been posted so I’m not telling you anything your own research would not have revealed. This information is only part of the reason I/we place Maura’s disappearance somewhere within 1-3 miles of where the Saturn came to rest. Again, keep in mind this is only “circumstantial evidence” as are all eye-witness accounts. In my many years experience (statistically speaking) there are more convictions based on circumstantial evidence than on “physical evidence”. Long post but I feel this will help you in your scenarios and theories.

Respectfully

Weeper

So if FireCat is correct then the Hanson Express Article quoting Helena
is wrong!
Thank you Mcsmom!

mcsmom wrote:

firecat ..... you are right, Maura returned clothing.
Mason....if this help the rag theory... blowning up the photo of Maura.s car reveals what looks like melted passenger and driver side plastic floor mats. Back seat window drivers side cracked open.
WW...why didn't HPD give a copy of the police report to John Walsh, America's Most Wanted so he could air the disappearance of Maura within the critical first days following her disappearance?
Or refuse the help of Tim Miller, Texas Eqqusearch?

Now I have useful information?
You're killing me!

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Um, excuse me, but who's doing all the yelling and the name calling?
I can't agree to scroll on by, as you and Shack both call it, because a lot of what you say is useful. I harbor no particular agenda against you White Wash, and I never have.

Sawyer Hill could be.
Well every officer at the Woodsville
Fire Dept is lying then!
They where actaully in a Month officers meeting!
So if there was a call at 7PM then they
would have gone.
Second if you look in the JO article
the you will the only person who can
turn around the fire dept is the Chief
not HPD.
So there is ZERO ZIP record of such call
on Grafton.
There is zero evidence to support this call.
Now I have not seen the Hanover Disp. log could it have been a call for them?
Sure but Woodsville Fire Dept has received no call and Fred Murray has
their paperwork they all have met with the PI's for the him.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
What about the possibility of Sawyer Hill Road that branches to the right off the 112?
Regarding a possible first crash, my sourcec fot that is entr 8 on the Maura Murray case chart that states,
Heard call go out at 7PM for Woodsville fire dept. and EMS re accident on Swiftwater Road; heard fire and EMS called back shortly because "operator had left in private vehicle"; rescue was called out second time and she heard scanner discussion referencing "cracked windshield" … Woodsville fire dept/EMS called out to accident at 7 PM – then called back – then called out again.
In the column entitled People/Items this entry appears: Scanner
Anne (on webboard) and her husband
Apparently, the dispatcher was RM.
That's all I know about it. I think Weeper hinted that it might be connected to the case. I'm not sure what to make of it.

hi all .Shack thanks for reposting the Weeper post.Was sgt Smith taking a quick peak at what he expected to be at the store parking lot before he headed west again toward the weathwered barn.Also could anyone in Mauras family had given nhpd Mauras cell phone number when they called before they spoke with mrMurray and if they did was it called.too many things just make no sense .take care philip

This has always bugged me!
I could never ever get the time to match up!
Thanks as I re-read this DING!
My question is this if
Sgt. Smith 01 went by the witness on Goose Lane
then again on Swiftwater Road with there being
no traffic why wasn't this witness behind Smith?
Where did this witness go from the intersection
to Westman's that Smith was so far ahead of them?
This has never made sense to me and now it makes
even less!

Shack wrote:

Someone asked recently about Weeper ..and a recent Posting..
I did find this #4032...from August 2008. copy/paste..........
" I would like to recap some information that has previously been posted on the MMM Forum and partly on this site as well, with reference to the first “call-out” about an accident on route 112 at or about 7:00-7:10 PM on February 9, 2004.
A witness returning home from her/his place of employment at Cottage Hospital on Goose Lane stated she/he observed a black “Bronco style” police unit with #1 stenciled on it passed her/him heading (with blue lights flashing) toward the intersection of Goose Lane and French Pond Road in Swiftwater. Please have a map of this area to follow along as it gets confusing since these routes twist from Haverhill into the Swiftwater portion of the town of Bath and back into the northern section of Haverhill. Goose Lane and the Cottage Hospital are in Haverhill, then into Bath where it continues south-south west back toward the Woodsville portion of Haverhill. As the witness drove further up Goose Lane she/he observed the police unit continue on Goose Lane back toward Swiftwater. As this witness turned off Goose Lane in Bath and onto French Pond Road and the very short distance on French Pond Road to the intersection with route 112 (the Wild Ammonoosuc Road as it’s called) almost across from the general store, she/he observed the same unit (#1) pass her/him at that intersection heading east toward where the Saturn was ultimately located. When the witness came to the corner at the Weathered Barn she/he saw this police unit, nose to nose with the Saturn (ass-end into the snow bank) but did not see any officers or people around the two vehicles (it is assumed Sgt. Smith was at this point either speaking with the Westermans or down speaking with Mr. Atwood. The witness then continued along route 112 East heading home and flashed her/his high-low beams to oncoming traffic (universal signal to slow down ahead) due to the location of the accident on the sharp curve."