Where is MAURA MURRAY

SOM wrote:

I know there are a number of theories/speculations/supposit ions that the damage to the car happened at another location. Does everyone agree with the fact that the damage to the car is completely inconsistent with the direction the car was going. The damage mostly certainly would have been to the passenger side of the car.

This is absolutely not a given. There are many ways that the damage could be done to that side of the car and is entirely consistent with someone who overcorrects trying to correct over steer to the right going into a turn. This explains the damage to the car and the final resting position of the car.

I actually believe that Maura crashed her car at the previous location and while running from that accident had the second accident that the place where the car was found. The damage and airbag deployment were probably both done at the previous crash.

My thoughts for what its worth.

Bill

Hello again,

Mason recently wrote that he would find it surprising if Maura were actually living somewhere under an assumed identity and not being seen and reported by witnesses.

In principle I would agree with Mason on this point.
However, I think that we must consider the fact that the northern parts of Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine as well as large tracts of southern Quebec and neighbouring New Brunswick are very thinly populated areas.
If Maura were to change her hair style, the colour of her hair and make other subtle changes to her previous appearance, I do believe that she could well go unnoticed for years, especially as her case is regrettably less well known than we would like to think, and particularly so in Canada.
Remember that the witness in the Barton, VT, church on Fathers´ Day 2005 remarked that the mysterious "Raykel" with the "unmistakable runners legs" wore a heavy foundation cream applied to her face and that her hair colour was blonder than Maura´s natural hair colour. Still, the witness also remarked upon her "tightly curled hair"...
Barton, VT, in Orleans County, is a small center in the so called "Northeast Kingdom" of Vermont on the I-91 between St Johnsbury,VT, and the Canadian border. The surrounding area is extremely sparsely populated even by Vermont standards.

Quija wrote:

<quoted text>
Mason, great posts. IIRC a statement was issued saying (re: this phone call) that "that person had moved on". Now THAT was weird too. I thought, "Yeah, that poor person has moved on into intensive care with a head injury. That's where he moved on to." I wondered if it was a roommate or floormate of Vasi's? Probably not, but you're right that not disclosing where the call originated is disturbing.

Part 1
I'm not certain about this, but I'm inclined to believe that the caller may have been a passenger in the car Maura was driving who agreed to find out as much information as she could about the condition of the victim and call Maura with an update. The friend's information, such as it was, probably confirmed Maura's worst fears. It's difficult to get information on the condition of a patient, given the strict patient confidentiality rules under HIPPA. I know some of the posters on this site are nurses and I will defer to them to address that issue.
Two other reasons why I believe the caller may have been a friend are (1) the caller knew where to reach her, and (2) Maura didn't seem to be fearful of being attacked by anyone. She was in a hurry to get out of town but not desperately so or she would have been on the road long before 4 or 4:30 Monday afternoon. She delayed her departure to take care of some business and I think she trusted her friend not to snitch her off to the cops.
Mr. Vasi was alone I think because no one ever stepped forward and said they were with him and he doesn't recall anything. My guess is he looked directly at Maura an instant before the impact and she was afraid he would identify her when he regained consciousness.
My theory may be hogwash though because the dent in the front left side of her vehicle doesn't appear to have been caused by striking a human body. Imagine her panic on Sunday when her father was trying to be nice her and took her shopping to find a car to replace the beater. Instead of making her feel better, it would have freaked her out because I'm sure he told her he was going to trade it in for whatever discount the dealer would agree to give. Meanwhile, she's starring in a Cohen Brothers movie thinking about the dent and how she's going to explain it to daddy after running his new Toyota into guardrail. Well, I just kinda ran over this guy, dad. Situation four alarm fire. Watch daddy turn into a suddenly punctured balloon flying all over the lot screaming swear words he'd long forgotten that he knew.

Depends on the make and models.
Saturns where not know for the strenght.
Given the other Saturns I have seen in
accidents and the one that rear ended me.
I think the damage is possible between the
snow banks and trees and speed.
Since the air bags deployed we know for sure
speed and impact happen right?

But those are my thoughts I am more than willing to listen to all any thoughts I think that when
the possible answers happen.

The problems happen when people are to set in right and wrong.

My thoughts theory are no more or less than yours.

Nothing wrong with a THINK TANK in my opinion!

SOM wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't presume to know what happened...I'm not saying I think the theories about the damage occurring in another location are right or wrong...I just wanted to acknowledge that others had talked about it. But mainly, I want people to discuss how the damage that we KNOW happened by looking at the car could have happened based on the direction of the car, road conditions, position of trees, etc. I honestly don't see how the damage we see on the car could have happened based on those things.

Part 2
It's frustrating not to be privy to the investigator's work product because they consulted with an accident reconstruction expert who gave them an opinion regarding the cause of that dent. Personally, I think it was caused by the corner of a bumper that was located higher than the front bumper on the Saturn. Just as I defer to the nurses on the subject of patient privacy, I will defer to a properly certified accident reconstruction expert on the cause of that dent.
Finally, I'm not sure there would have been much of a dent caused by hitting Mr. Vasi. We don't know how fast she was driving and he was not a solid object rooted to the ground. His head injuries almost certainly were caused by hitting his head on the pavement or curb. I think the other injuries he sustained were limited to bruises and scrapes. But again, that's not my call to make. Perhaps the nurses can answer that question for us.
On the subject of accidents, I sure would like to see the photos taken by the cops at the crash site on the 112. I'm particularly interested in the photos White Wash referred to that show tire tracks in the snow. I keep picturing Maura coming around that sharp curve at Weathered Barn a little too fast and as she heads off the road onto the icy shoulder she jerks the steering wheel hard left overcorrecting and goes into an uncontrolled spin. Well, that would necessarily be a counter clockwise spin with the rear end sliding to her right. To end up facing W/B, she would have had to execute a perfect 180, and I'm speaking from personal experience now, without hitting any solid object. If she had, the impact would have stopped the spin.
Instead, it appears that she negotiated the curve successfully because the accident occurred another 500 feet down the road. If I'm reading my tea leaves correctly, their theory of the case is that she jerked the wheel to the right causing a clockwise 180 degree spin. The photos should resolve that question.
If the cops are right, why did she jerk the wheel to the right while driving on a straight section of the road? Maybe this scenario and the rag in the tail pipe are what caused Sgt Smith to conclude that she attempted to kill herself.

Part 3

Maybe he's right, but I live in a rural area that resembles a pinball game with deer. They just love to pop out of the woods and run in front of vehicles, especially at sundown when they are impossible to see and during the early evening hours. Deer pose a problem to even the most experienced drivers and Maura would have been clueless regarding how to react if one ran in front of her -- assuming she was sober! I would not at all be surprised if she jerked the wheel to the right to avoid hitting one. In fact, whether it was a deer or other forest critter, I think this scenario is far more likely than Maura all of a sudden deciding to make a sharp right turn into the trees in the middle of a straight section of road just after successfully negotiating a tough 90 degree left turn in the road at the Weathered Barn.
Of course there's still that damn rag in the tail pipe to explain, damnit!

SHE DID NOT HIT THE TREES....The damage to the car was not consistent with a vehicle hitting a tree. I have seen Mauras Saturn close up and I know what I saw when I investigated the acc. scene. The car was struck or struck another object, this is for certain. The damage is more consistent with a tow hitch or ball or possibly a plow or plow frame. The pix of the car prove this also.

WTF - I work for the phone company and a local call can be traced. All calls go through the central office. Even if in the same building unless you are on VOIP which I highly doubt they had back then

Detective Columbo wrote:

SHE DID NOT HIT THE TREES....The damage to the car was not consistent with a vehicle hitting a tree. I have seen Mauras Saturn close up and I know what I saw when I investigated the acc. scene. The car was struck or struck another object, this is for certain. The damage is more consistent with a tow hitch or ball or possibly a plow or plow frame. The pix of the car prove this also.

Does anyone know if in fact a accident reconstruction expert examined the scene? If so, do we know who that was? Seems like if we knew and s/he was local, some of the locals on this forum could talk to him/her.

Also, what ever happened to "OH MY"?

Ok - mcsmom - I have to call something out if it NOT correct. After I sent the link to AMW yesterday I submitted a request. Here it is it says nothing about police.

America's Most Wanted only accepts requests for stories or segments through the mail. Please send your request to:
America's Most Wanted
P.O. Box Crime TV
Washington, DC 20016
Please send a concise letter regarding the occurrence, a photograph of the victim and suspect, any newspaper clippings, police reports and the name and phone number of the detective investigating this case. Please allow 12-14 weeks for a response from the producers. All material sent to the producers will not be returned. If you can not provide this information to the producers, please give this to the victim's family or the detective investigating this crime.
America's Most Wanted does its best to apprehend criminals, locate missing children and solve even the toughest crimes. Our show provides the information, but it's viewers like you who do the real job.

Thanks for your continued support and interest in America's Most Wanted. Please stay tuned for our next show on Saturday, Dcember 6, 2008 at 9PM EST.
Sincerely,
Operator 8522

WTF-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
This is absolutely not a given. There are many ways that the damage could be done to that side of the car and is entirely consistent with someone who overcorrects trying to correct over steer to the right going into a turn. This explains the damage to the car and the final resting position of the car.

I actually believe that Maura crashed her car at the previous location and while running from that accident had the second accident that the place where the car was found. The damage and airbag deployment were probably both done at the previous crash.
My thoughts for what its worth.
Bill

FYI: The turn at the Weathered Barn is a 90 degree left turn that she negotiated successfully. The accident happened approximately 500 feet farther down the road in in the middle of a long stretch of road that is straight.
Sometime yesterday, I came across a link in one of the posts and clicked on it to see 3 Google Earth images and a chart prepared by Silky Boxer showing 2 locations on the 112 where guardrails were knocked down during the early evening hours on Feb 9th. One is west of the convenience store and the other is east of the scene of the accident. A news photographer named Beth supposedly heard about both accidents over a scanner, so she grabbed her camera and headed out to take pictures. If Maura was in an accident on the 112 before the accident just past the Weathered Barn, she must have collided with the guardrail that's west of the convenience store.

Beth didn't see a vehicle at either scene. Looks like some folks may have been out playing bumper cars with the guardrails that night. I don't know which side of the road that guardrail is located. If the damage to the driver's side of the front end of Maura's vehicle was caused by that collision, she would have to have swerved across the oncoming lane to hit it. Since it would not have been a glancing blow, the airbags probably would have deployed at that site. Obviously, her car still would have been driveable so she would have headed on down the road without waiting for help to show up.

It would help us out a great deal if the investigators would share the info they got from an accident reconstruction expert, wouldn't it?

hi all, Detective Columbo,thank you for posting those very important 6 small words and it is good to see to see you here again ,its been too long.tos.The call to Maura may well have come from someone that is still at umass and knew she would be leaving.If Maura was being asked to leave which i dont' know as a fact it could explain why nobody from umass will talk about it.they would be unemployed real fast.umass has had a long battle trying to maintain a good public image with regard to student safety despite there dead students.One was hancuffed for being drunk but was actually in the process of bleeding to death......

I spoke too soon.

CORRECTION:

According to Lord Weeper, the accident happened 100 (not 500) feet past the tree with the blue ribbon.

See message 4269 at page 212.

dawn wrote:

Ok - mcsmom - I have to call something out if it NOT correct. After I sent the link to AMW yesterday I submitted a request. Here it is it says nothing about police.
America's Most Wanted only accepts requests for stories or segments through the mail. Please send your request to:
America's Most Wanted
P.O. Box Crime TV
Washington, DC 20016
Please send a concise letter regarding the occurrence, a photograph of the victim and suspect, any newspaper clippings, police reports and the name and phone number of the detective investigating this case. Please allow 12-14 weeks for a response from the producers. All material sent to the producers will not be returned. If you can not provide this information to the producers, please give this to the victim's family or the detective investigating this crime.
America's Most Wanted does its best to apprehend criminals, locate missing children and solve even the toughest crimes. Our show provides the information, but it's viewers like you who do the real job.
Thanks for your continued support and interest in America's Most Wanted. Please stay tuned for our next show on Saturday, Dcember 6, 2008 at 9PM EST.
Sincerely,
Operator 8522

Dawn here you go. Your post above above also states they need police reports so I am confused as to what you are stating.

http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/resources....

Det. Columbo :)

I tried to find the link to the guardrail google map pictures. I need to get something else done, but it's close to this message by Anne.

Message #8150 at page 405.

Go Fish.

So you measured where the damage was to the
that of height of balls/hitches? I found that
to be very helpful.

So how do you explain the photograph LE has
of tire track into the tree from that night?

Fred never saw the car the weekend he was there so
do we really know what shape the car really was in
prior to the accident?

Detective Columbo wrote:

SHE DID NOT HIT THE TREES....The damage to the car was not consistent with a vehicle hitting a tree. I have seen Mauras Saturn close up and I know what I saw when I investigated the acc. scene. The car was struck or struck another object, this is for certain. The damage is more consistent with a tow hitch or ball or possibly a plow or plow frame. The pix of the car prove this also.

whiston wrote:

hi all, Detective Columbo,thank you for posting those very important 6 small words and it is good to see to see you here again ,its been too long.tos.The call to Maura may well have come from someone that is still at umass and knew she would be leaving.If Maura was being asked to leave which i dont' know as a fact it could explain why nobody from umass will talk about it.they would be unemployed real fast.umass has had a long battle trying to maintain a good public image with regard to student safety despite there dead students.One was hancuffed for being drunk but was actually in the process of bleeding to death......

Has anyone considered that the silence from students who attended UMass and knew Maura relects a desire not to disclose some information that might hurt the already hurting family? I'm not suggesting they know really bad stuff. For example, maybe some of them thought she had a drinking problem. Then again, she was pretty private so maybe they didn't know her very well and they knew nothing about where she was going, so they felt like they had nothing to say.

Then again, maybe nobody ever asked them any questions.

Actually I'd like to see the guard rail photos.

So that would be in Bath and the Bath Road crew
should have records of such damage!
Oh Whiston buddy ole pal you on it?

Any one know what paper Beth worked for?
Wonder if they would have her shots.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
FYI: The turn at the Weathered Barn is a 90 degree left turn that she negotiated successfully. The accident happened approximately 500 feet farther down the road in in the middle of a long stretch of road that is straight.
Sometime yesterday, I came across a link in one of the posts and clicked on it to see 3 Google Earth images and a chart prepared by Silky Boxer showing 2 locations on the 112 where guardrails were knocked down during the early evening hours on Feb 9th. One is west of the convenience store and the other is east of the scene of the accident. A news photographer named Beth supposedly heard about both accidents over a scanner, so she grabbed her camera and headed out to take pictures. If Maura was in an accident on the 112 before the accident just past the Weathered Barn, she must have collided with the guardrail that's west of the convenience store.
Beth didn't see a vehicle at either scene. Looks like some folks may have been out playing bumper cars with the guardrails that night. I don't know which side of the road that guardrail is located. If the damage to the driver's side of the front end of Maura's vehicle was caused by that collision, she would have to have swerved across the oncoming lane to hit it. Since it would not have been a glancing blow, the airbags probably would have deployed at that site. Obviously, her car still would have been driveable so she would have headed on down the road without waiting for help to show up.
It would help us out a great deal if the investigators would share the info they got from an accident reconstruction expert, wouldn't it?

Sadly it's not just at UMASS every college wants
parents think their kids are safe and they should
be for the money spent.

I do wish we could see their investigation!
Oh well!

whiston wrote:

hi all, Detective Columbo,thank you for posting those very important 6 small words and it is good to see to see you here again ,its been too long.tos.The call to Maura may well have come from someone that is still at umass and knew she would be leaving.If Maura was being asked to leave which i dont' know as a fact it could explain why nobody from umass will talk about it.they would be unemployed real fast.umass has had a long battle trying to maintain a good public image with regard to student safety despite there dead students.One was hancuffed for being drunk but was actually in the process of bleeding to death......

And one more point. Why would Maura take her birth control pills with her on the trip north if she drove up there to kill herself?