Where is MAURA MURRAY

Mason wrote:

RE peripeteia's comment
"Unless Maura's car was towed it makes no sense that she would stick the towel in the tailpipe, although it would be the thing to do if you were being towed, or perhaps even just towed out of a snow bank."
I've never heard of a tow-truck driver sticking a towel into the tailpipe of a car he or she is going to tow. I've asked 3 tow-truck drivers in the area if that was SOP. They laughed at me and said that was ridiculous.
I'm pushing the Maura-was-delusional-all-weeke nd theory because I can't make any sense out of her behavior, unless I assume she was delusional.
I think this was a brain chemistry problem over which she had no control. I don't believe she was more than a casual drinker and I don't believe she was into drugs. I believe she was hearing voices, experiencing visual hallucinations, and feeling paranoid.
Look at her behavior like crashing her dad's car, leaving town with a car that the biggest long-shot Louie at Hialeah wouldn't have bet a fin on it making it to any of the destinations that she had considered. Then 2 more crashes.
Holy Batmobile, Batman! What's up with that?

Although I do agree with you that her behavior is hard to make sense of, I must disagree that she was delusional (but of course, this is simply my opinion, as obviously none of us know what really happened). When I was in college, there are a few times when I took road trips without telling my parents for a several different reasons. I know that my parents are normal, responsible, loving parents and would question where I was going and why I was going, and if there wasn't a good reason for traveling hundreds of miles, they would naturally be against me doing that, especially if I was by myself (at least, I remember this being my thought process at the time). For example, one instance was when my ex-gf and took a 2200-mile-trip to Yellowstone National Park. My parents wouldn't have wanted me driving there for a number of reasons that should be fairly obvious and I'm not going to elaborate on. I once took a 3-hour ride to Sedona, Arizona just to enjoy the scenery and take the gorgeous perspective of the natural desert in. Sometimes, as a young adult, you just want to feel free, feel grown, and you get the urge to just go off on your own. I know I had that urge in college. Not all of my friends did, but I know a number who did.

Evidence pointing to her being in a rational state of mind is the e-mail to her professors. Obviously her plan was calculated and she was thinking clearly if she took the time out to e-mail her professors and write a coherent message. She also printed out directions to where she may have been headed in advance. Although we might not know her motivation for taking this trip, that doesn't mean she was delusional. Additionally she took her keys, cell phone and back pack with her when she left her car behind that night. That says a lot about what could have happened following her accident.

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

http://travel.webshots.com/pho to/2095305800098837713rEMckL
link to photos posted by Lady Gray

to my untrained eye, the most logical explanation besides the saturn hiting the hitch of a truck, is hiting a guard rail...

BINGO!

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
BINGO!

If she did hit a guard rail prior to the second accident, how far is the distance between the two sites? And what is your theory as to what you think may have happened if she initially hit the guard rail along Rt 112 East?(My apologies in advance if you've explained this in previous posts already).

beach bum wrote:

<quoted text>
Although I do agree with you that her behavior is hard to make sense of, I must disagree that she was delusional (but of course, this is simply my opinion, as obviously none of us know what really happened). When I was in college, there are a few times when I took road trips without telling my parents for a several different reasons. I know that my parents are normal, responsible, loving parents and would question where I was going and why I was going, and if there wasn't a good reason for traveling hundreds of miles, they would naturally be against me doing that, especially if I was by myself (at least, I remember this being my thought process at the time). For example, one instance was when my ex-gf and took a 2200-mile-trip to Yellowstone National Park. My parents wouldn't have wanted me driving there for a number of reasons that should be fairly obvious and I'm not going to elaborate on. I once took a 3-hour ride to Sedona, Arizona just to enjoy the scenery and take the gorgeous perspective of the natural desert in. Sometimes, as a young adult, you just want to feel free, feel grown, and you get the urge to just go off on your own. I know I had that urge in college. Not all of my friends did, but I know a number who did.
Evidence pointing to her being in a rational state of mind is the e-mail to her professors. Obviously her plan was calculated and she was thinking clearly if she took the time out to e-mail her professors and write a coherent message. She also printed out directions to where she may have been headed in advance. Although we might not know her motivation for taking this trip, that doesn't mean she was delusional. Additionally she took her keys, cell phone and back pack with her when she left her car behind that night. That says a lot about what could have happened following her accident.

I had those urges too, but I didn't hit the road in the dead of winter after dark in a car with a burned out cylinder and a heater that didn't work. Reckless has been my middle name but even I wouldn't do that. I'd wait a week so that I could pick up my paychecks and the new car my dad promised me. Then I'd hit the road.

Maura appears to be more grounded and responsible than I ever could tolerate being. The trip north makes no sense for her or someone else to take in her place.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
I had those urges too, but I didn't hit the road in the dead of winter after dark in a car with a burned out cylinder and a heater that didn't work. Reckless has been my middle name but even I wouldn't do that. I'd wait a week so that I could pick up my paychecks and the new car my dad promised me. Then I'd hit the road.
Maura appears to be more grounded and responsible than I ever could tolerate being. The trip north makes no sense for her or someone else to take in her place.

Good points.. points that just compound the mystery as to where she was going and why. However, I think Fred Murray's answer to that question is as sufficient as can be: "It doesn't matter. We'll never know."

I strongly believe that there is no correlation between her destination that day and her possible abduction. So where she was going is irrelevant. Although I do agree it is a tantalizing mystery.

beach bum wrote:

<quoted text>
If she did hit a guard rail prior to the second accident, how far is the distance between the two sites? And what is your theory as to what you think may have happened if she initially hit the guard rail along Rt 112 East?(My apologies in advance if you've explained this in previous posts already).

The distance from the Rte 302/Rte 112 intersection to the damaged guardrail on Rte 112 is 1.54 miles.

The distance from the damaged guardrail on Rte 112 to the scene of the accident on Rte 112 just past the Weathered Barn is 2.06 miles.

I believe the Saturn strayed across the center-line and lane for oncoming traffic and hit the curled or curved end of the guardrail causing the dent in the engine hood on front left side of the car pushing the radiator back into the engine, deploying both airbags, and altering the aim of the left front headlamp. I suspect the car rebounded from the impact with the wheels in the snow or a ditch and the driver couldn't get traction, so she used the two front floor mats and got the Saturn back on terra firma. She then resumed driving E/B on the 112 with significantly reduced visibility due to the screwed up headlamp until she lost control of the car and hit a snowbank that caused minimal front end damage to the front bumper.

Of course, I'll have to go back to the drawing board if the height of the curved end of the guardrail isn't high enough to account for the dent. But, hey. It's not like I'm the only one who can't figure this puppy out.

I guess I should have expected this when the investigator answers to the name Weeper.

Yikes.

Mason wrote:

DISTANCES
Rte 302/Rte 112 intersection to the scene of the accident past Weathered Barn: 3.6 miles
Rte 302/Rte 112 intersection to W Guardrail on Rte 112: 1.54 miles. This is the probable scene of the Saturn’s first accident, assuming there was a first accident. Damage to engine hood on left front above the headlight and bumper may have been caused by crossing the center line and oncoming lane of traffic colliding with the rounded edge or end of the guardrail on the other side of the road. Impact may have affected the headlight’s aim as well as causing both airbags to deploy. Due to the impact, the Saturn may have ended up partway in a ditch next to the road, assuming there was a ditch, and the driver or someone who stopped to check on the driver’s condition, used the floor mats to provide traction to get out of the ditch. Perhaps another driver passing by the scene reported the accident resulting in Sgt Smith’s dispatch to the scene around 7 pm. But the Saturn was gone when Sgt Smith arrived at the scene.
Rte 302/Rte 112 intersection to Bunga Road/Rte 112 intersection: 2.30 miles This is the location where witness RO first saw the red truck with MA (or NH temp) plates.
Rte 302/Rte 112 intersection to Goose Lane/Rte 112 intersection: 2.46 miles. This is the location where the Hosp. Emp. saw Sgt Smith pass by heading E/B on Rte 112 toward the scene of the accident on Rte 112 past the Weathered Barn.
Rte 302/Rte 112 intersection to Stage Stop convenience store: 2.54 miles. Location where Witness RO saw the red P/U parked the parking lot as she approached on foot. When the driver saw her approaching, he left the parking lot and headed E/B on Rte 112 in the direction of the accident on Rte 112 past the Weathered Barn. Witness RO also saw Sgt Smith pass by headed E/B on Route 112 in the direction of the accident on Rte 112 past the Weathered Barn.

thanks Shack for the information, it might be beneficial to know what he was doing the night of the accident what Mac Kay saw etc,

Mason:

I don't buy the psychotic theory, however she must now have found herself in a rather desperate situation and no phone coverage to seek assistance.

As lame as it seems, we in the back woods still sometimes tow ourselves around with chains and ropes, we tie red, white, or something colourful on the tail pipe or bumper, to warn on coming traffic. The last time I did this I scared the dickens out of myself, as it was slippery and without power steering it is a trial to keep the bloddy car on the road.

One wonders if Maura could have sent a message of distress, that she needed help, raising a white flag

one thing to check out are we sure that R.O. saw the car at the Stage Stop Store, I thought she saw this person at the convenience store,humm
anyone know if it was the Stage Stop Store where R.O. friend worked...

general question:

what of the ambulance that was heading down Bunga road that R.O. saw on her walk, or is this urban legend?

hi all.a couple of thoughts.we dont know if the saturn driver was going west toward Woodsville .There is and was a sticker on the car that tells the world that the driver may be a student.One of the Westmans may have seen the driver trying to use a cell phone which may put a phone at the saturn, which may have pinged in the area later.We dont know who to believe about what time the saturn arrived at the barn.I have always wondered if the driver walked down to mrAtwwods driveway ,hence the trail and simply got in the passenger seat because it was easier when returning to the saturn. If Maura was driving the saturn she may have not wanted P.D. called because that could mean her family would find out about he trip.They would run the plates etc.If Maura used the AAA card in Hadley she carried it with her to the saturn it has been reported found in the saturn.If a bottle of booze is found under a car after it is towed could this be used as evidence in a drunk driving case.I think it would cost too much [dollar wise]to tie it to a drunk driving case and unless the driver admitted they had dumped it it would be useless and sgt Smith would know this.take care philip

HI all .Still wondering about the last Sunday Maura was seen in Amherst.She started her day in her fathers motel room.She may have had no sleep .DID she have an overnight bag, clean clothes with her etc.At some point a car was rented by mr Murray.Lets assume that was done after 9 a.m.They would have had to go to the Toyota to retrieve personal items.I asssume they would need proof of insurance for the rental car.I have always understood that mr Murray dropped Maura off at school because she had to work at the mystery gallery.The galleries i have looked into open at 2 p.m. on Sundays.Where did the hockey bag of beer cans fit into all of this ,time wise.Can empty beer cans be returned in M.A. on Sunday.Where did they come from, her room, her car, the Toyota , the party,the recycle bin in Kennedy Hall and after Mauras stressful night would she decide that empty beer cans were a priority.She was reportedy seen Sunday a.m. with the hockey bag.I think at the time 280 dollars was a maximum on an A.T.M.withdrawal.It seems odd that we could know how much was taken from the A.T.M. but not which bank and reportedly only L.E. has ever seen the video.take care look in Amherst philip

Are you kidding me?
Since when is leaving the scene of an accident
not a crime?

Detective Columbo wrote:

White Wash....
What crime did MAURA commit?....That is my question....is there a warrant for her arrest if she is found. Just asking.

whiston wrote:

hi all.a couple of thoughts.we dont know if the saturn driver was going west toward Woodsville .There is and was a sticker on the car that tells the world that the driver may be a student.One of the Westmans may have seen the driver trying to use a cell phone which may put a phone at the saturn, which may have pinged in the area later.We dont know who to believe about what time the saturn arrived at the barn.I have always wondered if the driver walked down to mrAtwwods driveway ,hence the trail and simply got in the passenger seat because it was easier when returning to the saturn. If Maura was driving the saturn she may have not wanted P.D. called because that could mean her family would find out about he trip.They would run the plates etc.If Maura used the AAA card in Hadley she carried it with her to the saturn it has been reported found in the saturn.If a bottle of booze is found under a car after it is towed could this be used as evidence in a drunk driving case.I think it would cost too much [dollar wise]to tie it to a drunk driving case and unless the driver admitted they had dumped it it would be useless and sgt Smith would know this.take care philip

Whiston the problem I have always found with the bottle of coke with strong alcoholic smell to it, a tad suspect, because, if I was involved with DUI, and was fleeing to avoid detection of police, then why leave evidence. I cannot imagine that Maura would have left incrimnating evidence at the scene, wouldn't have been me, unless of course the occupant did not notice that bottle fell out...

Mason: the other store is referred to as Winnie's Store

I favor the guard raid theory because of the front end damage and the scraping at the sides and back of the driver's side of the car, very smooth, would be in keeping with aluminium railings,,if that be the case,there should be aluminium filings embedded, and wood railing would leave wood evidence...these scrapes if made by guardrails say that it was done of the opposite side of the road...as previously pointed out, I believe there was a small dent at on the drivers side front, about a foot from the door, wondered if this was from a guardrail as well but the dent could be a result of buckling of the hood...

beach bum wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree that he should be questioned. Anything that looks remotely awkward should be thoroughly questioned. Where is he today?

He's dead.

beach bum wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree that he should be questioned. Anything that looks remotely awkward should be thoroughly questioned. Where is he today?

He is dead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_McKay

whiston wrote:

HI all .Still wondering about the last Sunday Maura was seen in Amherst.She started her day in her fathers motel room.She may have had no sleep .DID she have an overnight bag, clean clothes with her etc.At some point a car was rented by mr Murray.Lets assume that was done after 9 a.m.They would have had to go to the Toyota to retrieve personal items.I asssume they would need proof of insurance for the rental car.I have always understood that mr Murray dropped Maura off at school because she had to work at the mystery gallery.The galleries i have looked into open at 2 p.m. on Sundays.Where did the hockey bag of beer cans fit into all of this ,time wise.Can empty beer cans be returned in M.A. on Sunday.Where did they come from, her room, her car, the Toyota , the party,the recycle bin in Kennedy Hall and after Mauras stressful night would she decide that empty beer cans were a priority.She was reportedy seen Sunday a.m. with the hockey bag.I think at the time 280 dollars was a maximum on an A.T.M.withdrawal.It seems odd that we could know how much was taken from the A.T.M. but not which bank and reportedly only L.E. has ever seen the video.take care look in Amherst philip

Whinston:
I was suggesting that these were empty cans, bottles, a witness says he saw Maura leave the campus with a hockey bag full of beer and wine, he alleges to have seen Maura Sunday but it has been stated she was with her Father. I suggest that if he saw Maura perhaps it was on Saturday.
doesn't sound like Maura had much sleep in days, she must have been very tired...perhaps she had to get out of town because she needed sleep..some relaxation far from the madding crowd...
I don't find much in Maura's life mysterious other than something went to hell in a hand basket on Thurdsday night. I agree some of Maura's fellow students could be very helpful in establishing Maura's frame of mind. I think she could have known a Perp or two from W.P. and U.of Mass,it is important to know why Maura ran for the hills, but more important is what happened at the scene of the accident as it does
not appear that she was followed from Amherst. No one can say for sure, but why would then Maura go down an isolated road with no phone coverage if she felt the possibility that she maybe followed...and more importantly she would have told someone, if she thought she was in danger...she would have gone to stay somewhere with a friend or family if she was fearful of being followed, that is not to say she was not experiencing fear and not followed but if Maura was abducted it seems like a crime of opportunity. We can only speculate, that whatever compelled her to go on such a venture at the setting of the sun is a mystery and it would seem of immediate importance to Maura.
I understand that the Gallery might not want their name plastered all over the place, and understand also that if a perp is involved perhaps he came in contact with Maura there...
the problem of investigating an endangered missing person case.. I don't think Maura had a secretive life, she was secretive and she may have fled due to a secret, but she had no secret life going on...or least it does not appear. Sure she must have faults, and shortcomings, but if anything her sin seems to be perfection. That's not so bad.

...without someone coming forward from the University, especially the caller on the phone on Thursday night we are unlikely to uncover too much of what when on at the University, and Maura's family could hardly be aware of what went on unless Maura shared that with them, so likely the Murray's simply don't know.

..possible reasons why Maura headed to New Hampshire

...mental meltdown, stress related
...threatened by perp at University of Mass
...suffered post traumatic stress disorder from
possible past sexual assault
...perhaps knew information re: Vaisi's accident
...perhaps knew information regarding an assault
on someone else
...thought of changing majors or schools needed
to weigh out options
...perhaps pregnant
...loads of other options...

from what we know of Maura's sudden reversal of fortune it began on Thursday night, her life seem to spiral out of control. I would hope that the police questioned her friends at college at length as to who they think the caller of the phone call at 1240 might have been.. and what they may have said. The only way to know what was happening is if someone comes forward. Surely someone remembers calling security and reducing the person to tears, or were directly contacting Maura and if the latter then the person has something to hide and the question becomes is what they are hiding incriminating?

It is odd and suspect that no one has stepped up to the plate and shared what they know? Somebody knows something they are not telling...because as secretive as Maura is, she could not hide the stress she was feeling, and at the end of the day, perhaps what was bothering Maura was idyiopathic, and has nothing to do with anyone else...but without any input from others who knew Maura at school we are left to guess.

Although I feel that Maura's disappearance is a crime of opportunity that has nothing to do with why she left Amherst.It might be helpful to know her mental state at the time she left the University, and if there is a possibility she was drinking and wondered away and succumed to the elements, I doubt the latter.



Maura too must have friends at West Point, has anyone made any attempt to contact them?

Why is the FBI not helping the local police and the Murray family to assist in the investigation of Maura's disappearance. Without further resources it seems as Maura's disappearance will never be solved.

Snowy White wrote:

<quoted text>
thank you for the clarification and buzz words...that's what i suspected...i'd planned to ask my daughter's father-in-law a WP grad & career military in a few days, but you've done the job.

I would hope that you would still talk to him and check on what I said. Being the internet anyone may be full of crap. Being able to verify, or dispute what others may have said helps lend credibility to a post. Show him what I have posted and tell us if he agrees or disagrees.

Just remember, I am talking about the combat arms field. Specifically the Infantry and Cavalry, not supply clerks and accountants. 8-)

Bill

WTF-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
I would hope that you would still talk to him and check on what I said. Being the internet anyone may be full of crap. Being able to verify, or dispute what others may have said helps lend credibility to a post. Show him what I have posted and tell us if he agrees or disagrees.
Just remember, I am talking about the combat arms field. Specifically the Infantry and Cavalry, not supply clerks and accountants. 8-)
Bill

I will, Bill.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>Of course, I'll have to go back to the drawing board if the height of the curved end of the guardrail isn't high enough to account for the dent.

I still believe that a tree did the damage to the hood and whatever did that to the hood DOES NOT have to be higher than the hood. The hood is designed to be light and strong in certain stresses. The way it is latched and contoured and reinforced is what gives it strength. If you apply a force to the front of the hood, like a tree, you can get the hood to BUCKLE in that fashion without ever touching that part of the hood. Does anyone see the way the hood is raised in the middle? According to the theory that one must have contact in order for that type of damage to occur, something inside of the engine compartment would have had to force the hood up. I am just a dumb engineer but the damage I see on the hood is not inconsistent with tree or other object pressing into the front left part of the vehicle. Several things don’t add up with the “trailer hitch” theory. One is I don’t see any gouge marks on the hood. Maybe the pictures are not clear enough but you should see at least one gouge cut into the hood where the hitch (steel on steel) made contact and I see no such marks. I also don’t see a gouge where the trailer hitch was pulled off of the hood like I would expect in and underride collision. I do see damage under the hood where something went deep into the car at bumper level and that same object could apply a point force to the hood and cause it to buckle. I know the experts say otherwise but I would just like to either see the underside of the hood to see how the reinforcement is laid out and if that explains the buckling and/or some clear photos of the damage that allow me to see gouge marks that I could associate with steel on steel damage like this.

Bill

"It is odd and suspect that no one has stepped up to the plate and shared what they know? Somebody knows something they are not telling...but without any input from others who knew Maura at school we are left to guess."

What about the possiblity of the police telling them to keep thier mouths shut so as not to hamper the invetigation?

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
Why would Maura have been targeted while just traveling thru when there was way more opportunity for such a crime just over the mountain?

Audrey Groat, Pamela Webb, Louise Chaput, Maura, and the girl, a tourist, whose burned out VW Bug (with her in it) was found on the side of the highway were all women whom have gone missing or have been murdered in that immediate area.

The girl in the burned out VW Beetle was deemed an accidental death. So wasn't Pauline Clark for that matter.

Pauline Clark went missing from Woodsville in 1985 while out taking an evening stroll. Her body was found a month later. Although she had blunt force trauma to her head her death was deemed and accident.

They were all women travelling alone.