Where is MAURA MURRAY

From what I've read, the PI's apparently turned their carpet sample over to LE b/c they didn't have proper storage facilities. Regardless, there were 2 samples. Where are they now? Why are we assuming Shack knows the results for sure when no one else seems to?(no offense Shack, just saying, if results are in this should be easily confirmed. Perhaps it HAS been, but I didn't see it anywhere here or in what else I've seen.)

Shack wrote:

I forget who asked what or when...but...
CM Rental Occupancy 1/2001 - 7/2004 of Chalet.
A-frame
Multiple eviction notices and citings. ie "accumulation of trash in woods back of property....parking tractor trailer with recyclables on Lodge Lane, unregistered vehicle"...
Det.C. has been WITH the Murrays since day 1. He has contributed throughout both of Helena's Forums for MMM. He came here to Topix,
with his original name, not with multiple names....
Many have come and gone...but, he is still hanging in there.

It doesn't matter how long he has been a forum member or that he followed along with everyone else from the old MMM forum or even that he is going around doing his own investigating. His name leads people to believe that he is a detective. I used to watch Columbo on tv and he sure didn't talk like this guy.
He is asking the posters here for personal information. He is stating his opinions as fact. He will not say that he is a licensed private investigater even though I've asked him twice so I can only think that he isn't.

Pointer wrote:

From what I've read, the PI's apparently turned their carpet sample over to LE b/c they didn't have proper storage facilities. Regardless, there were 2 samples. Where are they now? Why are we assuming Shack knows the results for sure when no one else seems to?(no offense Shack, just saying, if results are in this should be easily confirmed. Perhaps it HAS been, but I didn't see it anywhere here or in what else I've seen.)

I only know that Shack stated it was menstrual blood and shook the whole forum to it's core since many had no idea about it. I don't remember her saying how she knew this for a fact but I could have missed it.

Shack wrote:

Det.C. has been WITH the Murrays since day 1. He has contributed throughout both of Helena's Forums for MMM. He came here to Topix,
with his original name, not with multiple names....
Many have come and gone...but, he is still hanging in there.

This is very interesting but what does this have to do with what Wowzer wrote? Does it somehow make what he wrote incorrect or untruthful?

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

<quoted text>
Wowzer: thanks for the comment, however being a nurse, and seeing the confusion, pain and injury caused from an airbag being deployed in your face, the shock of being in an accident, likely the 3rd. in 48 hours thereabouts (assuming that there was a previous accident), and if we take the statement of police as gospel (assuming again that the SBD) that the driver of the vehicle was intoxicated with might be indiscernable from shock, I don't see that this is a routine accident, the fact that the airbags deployed says that the car was struck or hit something at a significant velocity. As a trained bus driver he would been familiar with shock, he describes that she was not injured, well she might have said that, but it sounds as if the occupant was totally shaken. Remained in her car without engaging emergency equipment in her trunk....
although the car was operational as the occupant back up and parked on the other side of the road, then why? Why not park the car out of harms way, obviously something prevented the occupant from doing the obvious. There are a number of possiblities, the first being that it was not Maura, that the occupant was intoxicated, that the occupant was in shock. Also, we do not know if the occupant did not strike their head....
and broke the windshield.
How would you explain SBD stating when he shone the flashlight in the car that he could only see her from the lips up because the airbag was deployed. To me this means either seeing the accident, or the person was resting their head on the steering wheel, this does not paint a picture to me of a person who is OK. Too the SBD had no idea how long the occupant was siting in a cold car.
I'd appreciate any response to help me better understand this...because I feel that the SBD
did not think the occupant of the car was alright.
Why did he not tow the car to his parking space down by the lot, he must have had a chain or rope....why did he feel so compelled to call the police, certainly if someone asked me not to call the police, I would not have called, and only done so if I felt they were endangered, as it would be none of my business. I'd have towed her off the road, or called her a tow truck. Sorry his whole senario of the SBD, makes no sense to me...
I understand he was somewhat helpless as the occupant refused his help.
the police would have been the last people I would have called for a single car accident...
Also, is Marrott not telling the truth, he has no reason to lie, he stated that he backed his truck all the way to the garage and remained on the bus a long time....and he commented that the SBD had never done that before?
Am I wrong, or has Marrott gave a false or misleading statement...?

When did the occupant back up and park across the road. I thought she was in a snow bank?
With all due respect peripeteia the SBD talked to her and it seems she made sense to him as she told him not to call the police.
Why would the police be the last people you would call for a one car accident?
I think he did the right thing. It was on a sharp curve in the dark. How was this older heavy weight man supposed to crawl around in the snow to hook chains to her car and put his life in jeopardy trying to pull her out and maybe damaging her car further.
The SBD's driveway is right in plain view right beside his house. Common sense will tell you that not only is it illegal I believe but also very dangerous to back a bus into the road on a sharp curve. I will say that I have seen the bus backed into the driveway before.

Eurobserver wrote:

<quoted text>
Hello all,
So if this information is correct, then Maura (and/or her cell phone) would likely have been travelling up the I-93 from eastern MA into NH towards Lincoln, NH.
If so, did Maura (or at least the driver of her Saturn) in fact exit the I-93 at Lincoln/North Woodstock in order to continue on NH Rte 112 west from Lincoln towards Swiftwater/Haverhill?
Can we draw such a possible conclusion here, at least as a kind of working hypothesis???

Problematic. According to Google Maps, it's 92.8 miles from North Amherst to Manchester, NH taking Rte 202 to Rte 101 and east on over to I-93 and Manchester. Estimated driving time is 2 hours and 8 minutes. However, it's 20 miles and 25 minutes from Manchester to Concord, for a total distance from Amherst to Concord of 112.8 miles in 2 hours and 33 minutes (not counting rush hour delays). There is a more direct route to get to Concord and I-93 from North Amherst that bypasses Manchester. The distance is 9 miles shorter and 15 minutes quicker and you don't have to deal with commuter traffic in Manchester which will save even more time.

But, here's the kicker. The shorter and faster route that bypases Manchester (Rte 202) never ventures near the 20 mile radius of the Londonderry Tower, assuming I have correctly determined its location (SSE of Manchester).

Concord to Woodsville, NH via I-93 and Rte 112 W/B is 104 miles in 1 hour and 53 minutes (not considering rush-hour traffic in Concord). Total miles and driving time from North Amherst to Manchester to Concord to Woodsville is 217 miles in 4 hours and 30 minutes (not considering rush-hour delays in Manchester and Concord).

Assuming a departure time from UMass @ 4 pm, Maura could not have arrived at the accident scene before 8:30 pm, which is too late. To get there in time, she would have to have departed UMass no later than 2:30 pm and that would result in the ping registering roughly between 4:15 and 4:45 pm. If it happened later, her arrival at the accident site would have been correspondingly later.

Meanwhile back in Amherst, a student who lives in her dorm reports seeing her leave campus sometime between 3:30 and 4:30 pm. Maura or someone who resembles her uses her ATM card to drain the bank account withdrawing $280. Next up is the liquor store where she spends $35 to $40. Video cameras record both transactions. The wiki timeline lists these transactions as "4 pm, or earlier," whatever that means.

I would like someone who knows her very well to carefully examine those videotapes because, given the poor quality of those tapes it's a wonder that anyone ever is positively identified. The ATM tape probably will be the better of the two because the camera usually is positioned above the keypad and only 12-24 inches away from the customer's well lit face. The ID by the student, who I believe mentions a hockey bag full of beer, probably is accurate and reliable, although the timing seems odd because I don't understand why she is returning to school after buying the booze. Why not stop at the ATM and then the liquor store on the way out of town? Whatever, it looks like she could have left town no earlier than 3:30.

If its Maura in the video and not someone pretending to be her, she did not have her cell phone with her. That raises the question, who had her cell pone and why was that person checking Maura's messages at 4:37 pm. To do so this person would have needed to know her PIN to access messages.

On the other hand, if Maura possessed the cell phone, someone impersonated her in Amherst and that person had to know her ATM PIN.

How's them apples?

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
When did the occupant back up and park across the road. I thought she was in a snow bank?
With all due respect peripeteia the SBD talked to her and it seems she made sense to him as she told him not to call the police.
Why would the police be the last people you would call for a one car accident?
I think he did the right thing. It was on a sharp curve in the dark. How was this older heavy weight man supposed to crawl around in the snow to hook chains to her car and put his life in jeopardy trying to pull her out and maybe damaging her car further.
The SBD's driveway is right in plain view right beside his house. Common sense will tell you that not only is it illegal I believe but also very dangerous to back a bus into the road on a sharp curve. I will say that I have seen the bus backed into the driveway before.

You are 100% correct in this. The police were the people to call. There appeared to be no medical emergency. Aid was offered and refused in an apparently competent manner. Modern cars are notoriously difficult to find a spot to attach and tow without proper equipment and it is very easy to damage them and of course wind up being liable not to mention SBD's possible physical limitations.

Pointer wrote:

Regarding the SBD, has it been confirmed that he was definitely returning from a ski trip. I assume yes, so I'm wondering when the last child was dropped off and where that was? Do we know when that was? Hate to imply anything negative about a possible good samaritan, but again, trying to cross things off the list. If I were disoriented and confused I'd probably tend to trust a bus driver over a random passerby in a beat-up truck.

Don't have the reference for you, sorry. One of the more perplexing facts about what happened between 7:30 pm and 8 pm on that 225 yard long stretch of 112 between the Weathered Barn and the Bradley Hill intersection is that parents were coming and going picking up their kids from the ski trip at the nearby school where the SBD dropped them off. This stretch of road could not reasonably be described as a lonely country road in the middle of nowhere.

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text>How many people actually live in that area during the week?? Most of the houses on and around 112 are not full time residences..... chances are, a lot of people weren't there. Technically, why didn't RO see where the red truck went? Did it head toward the Weathered Barn? Did it head West on 112, turn onto French Pond then onto Valley and up Swiftwater Circle to the Weathered Barn? Maybe it picked up whomever was in the Saturn?

RO said the red truck left the parking lot at the Stage Stop convenience store and headed E/B on Rte 112 in the direction of the Weathered Barn.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm the misinformed one Detective Columbo.

To the next said...not by a longshot. I'm dead sirious.

Eurobserver wrote:

<quoted text>
Hello all,
So if this information is correct, then Maura (and/or her cell phone) would likely have been travelling up the I-93 from eastern MA into NH towards Lincoln, NH.
If so, did Maura (or at least the driver of her Saturn) in fact exit the I-93 at Lincoln/North Woodstock in order to continue on NH Rte 112 west from Lincoln towards Swiftwater/Haverhill?
Can we draw such a possible conclusion here, at least as a kind of working hypothesis???

I would hope that we could - but the last time this came up I thought we had made a definite conclusion - on 91 or roads near it -(I'm sold on the backroads near it)

- even though initially we disagreed - I am greatful that you made the point of pointing out the other possible routes - I don't believe I-93 possible with the traditional timeline - but if the events attributed to 4:00 or earlier on the Wikipedia timeline took place much earlier - I can see I-93 as possible but less likely...

I do take the affidavit statement siriously - it says that someone called Maura from near that tower. But I can't ignore the "Battleship" map I posted (google map) showing the police checking dispatch logs along the route that points north from Londonb.-> based on what shack said the contents of the docos she had was. The docos became that way because investigators put them together that way - ergo they looked that way - Meaning they appear to come to your conclusion Euro - even though I don't agree with it, especially if they believed the timeline we have at Wikipedia - but I'm not saying I believe it is iron clad solid.

pansie wrote:

<quoted text>
I would also like to mention that unfortunately, in our society homeless people are nearly invisible. If she is alive and mentally ill, she may be homeless.

That's an excellent point. Many people here may not realize this but the largest mental "hospital" in our country is the LA County Jail. People who are mentally ill cycle back and forth from jails to the streets and back because they have little or no money and they can't hold down a job. Whether mentally ill or not, once a person becomes homeless, it's virtually impossible to rejoin the straight world.
Maura could be out there somewhere and if she is schizophrenic, the road back to the world we inhabit will be most difficult without assistance and medication.

I believe the importance of the following point cannot be overemphasized.

On Monday afternoon or early evening, February 9, 2004, Maura's cell phone was located within 20 miles of the Londonderry Tower, which is located SSE of Manchester, NH. At 4:37 pm, someone who knew the PIN used that phone to retrieve messages.

During the same period of time, or perhaps a little earlier, someone used Maura's card to obtain $280 from an ATM machine in North Amherst, MA. The person who used that card knew her PIN.

Due to the distance separating North Amherst and Manchester, NH, the same person cannot have been in both places.

Shack wrote:

He came here to Topix,
with his original name, not with multiple names....
Many have come and gone...but, he is still hanging in there.

I believe Colombo is the real deal, but that's probably not his name. LOL

But he chose that name to make a point - I knew the first post of his that he's a detective.
*Bill Clinton Squint*

Now in that capacity - he's in a role that a good deal of us look for guidance as to how we can help - and I know that its hard to act out a role that is not common to what the day to day realities of person to person detective work is.

Were in an odd pickle - he's looking for information from us - and we hope to give it to him - but there are times when we need more information to help with the thought process. At least that's the category I'm in - I know nothing first hand about the case.

On another side issue - I'll mention this even though I don't think it applies - because it might - and its counter to what I believe happened to the Saturn.

I once spun my car out, did a 360 - going FIFTEEN miles an hour. You guessed it it was when snow was thick on the ground on an unplowed highway. Lucklily I was thinkin ahead and the road going my direction was 4 lanes wide - I drove right down the middle of the 4 lanes - so when I spun - I didn't hit anything.

Onething about ice is that you never know when you might slide around - leave yourself a lot of room.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
That's an excellent point. Many people here may not realize this but the largest mental "hospital" in our country is the LA County Jail. People who are mentally ill cycle back and forth from jails to the streets and back because they have little or no money and they can't hold down a job. Whether mentally ill or not, once a person becomes homeless, it's virtually impossible to rejoin the straight world.
Maura could be out there somewhere and if she is schizophrenic, the road back to the world we inhabit will be most difficult without assistance and medication.

I'd have to say along those lines however that I am much more willing to believe that it was a temporary medical issue - going off a medicine too quickly - I've seen a documentary on as possible - "Why I Ran" some day you'll see it and you'll see what I mean.

I can't speak to anything else.

Mason wrote:

I believe the importance of the following point cannot be overemphasized.
On Monday afternoon or early evening, February 9, 2004, Maura's cell phone was located within 20 miles of the Londonderry Tower, which is located SSE of Manchester, NH. At 4:37 pm, someone who knew the PIN used that phone to retrieve messages.
During the same period of time, or perhaps a little earlier, someone used Maura's card to obtain $280 from an ATM machine in North Amherst, MA. The person who used that card knew her PIN.
Due to the distance separating North Amherst and Manchester, NH, the same person cannot have been in both places.

Now on this - if I agreed with you that the phone indeed was near Londonberry - I'd agree with your conclusion.

However - based on what I read in the afidavit posted here - and earlier discussions - I'm not convinced her phone was at Londonbury -

But I'll also admit - that I've before believed that the phome was near Londonbury based on information I saw at a particular web site I posted here 200 pages back maybe. Then I searched again and that happened to be the only page that put my understanding backwards.

On the other hand I have no reason to doubt Looking for a Moose's understanding - she's shown me that she is very bright.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

<quoted text>
At 7:30 at night with your car ass end two a snowbank in February?
No, you don't have to answer that.
I'm still reeling from the fact that people are passing judgement on Maura's family.
I'm stepping away from the computer now, bye folks.

as well as passing judgment on people in and around the area..... I am in the area---I know what I see on a regular basis, and that is caring people who have always offered to help if there was any inkling that I needed or wanted it. The reality is there were MANY warning signs that something was amiss in Maura's life --- and those signs were apparently ignored by family and friends. Again, hindsight can be 20/20....but share with us what was wrong and it may help to solve this case.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
RO said the red truck left the parking lot at the Stage Stop convenience store and headed E/B on Rte 112 in the direction of the Weathered Barn.

directly toward the saturn....before or after the hospital employee?

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
Don't have the reference for you, sorry. One of the more perplexing facts about what happened between 7:30 pm and 8 pm on that 225 yard long stretch of 112 between the Weathered Barn and the Bradley Hill intersection is that parents were coming and going picking up their kids from the ski trip at the nearby school where the SBD dropped them off. This stretch of road could not reasonably be described as a lonely country road in the middle of nowhere.

If its a public school it is located is in the area of the "city" of woodsville or off of the hospital end of Goose Lane. I'm not aware of many kids living in the Weathered Barn area---they tend to be more towards town in the more populated areas.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
That raises the question, who had her cell pone and why was that person checking Maura's messages at 4:37 pm. To do so this person would have needed to know her PIN to access messages.
How's them apples?

Sprint doesn't require a PIN if checking messages from the cell phone--only from a landline