Where is MAURA MURRAY

Eurobserver wrote:

<quoted text>
Mason,
Very good point there, which I was on the verge of bringing up myself.
If Beagle Bart is right about this, why on earth should the crashed Toyota of Maura´s father cause such an interest at the body shop?
I´ve never been able to explain this.
Ideas???

Well if they are checking all possible sources? Why wouldn't you check the car. maybe find a note computer info. maybe the father was not immediately cleared. It seems reasonable to comb areas last visited by missing person

WTF-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Very unlikely that this is true. There are qualifications for the job and likely there would be certain specific mental illnesses that would disqualify you to carry fully automatic weapons or have access to 120mm tank rounds or to fire 8 inch artillery shells. The army can be a little slow at times but, they know a public relations nightmare like that they don't need and there are exemptions in the ADA for certain things. Usually the ADA requires certain “reasonable accommodations”. It isn’t carte blanche to force companies to allow blind people to pilot aircraft or to allow severely depressed or social psychopaths to carry automatic weapons or to be allowed to drive around in armored vehicles that are impervious to most countermeasures while being able to fire 120mm HEAT or Canister rounds into civilian areas.
Bill

An individual has the right to not disclose any disability, including mental illness. As I said, if the person meets the qualifications for the job, school etc. and yes, reasonable accomodations can be arranged for if, any only if, you choose to disclose the disability.

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text>Actually, under the American's With Disabilities Act, they cannot refuse admission to a person with a psychiatric disability if they otherwise qualify. Kind of ironic, huh?

you sure about that. i have to think there might be an exception for west point for their graduates will go on to be lt in us army making decisions that can cost lives. is that general rule do you know i applies to wp

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text>
An individual has the right to not disclose any disability, including mental illness. As I said, if the person meets the qualifications for the job, school etc. and yes, reasonable accomodations can be arranged for if, any only if, you choose to disclose the disability.

Right. And someone was asking if Maura had a record of mental illness or hospitalizations. My answer to that was undoubtedly no because of West Point. I'm sure they do background checks of all sorts of things, and full medical disclosure etc.

I know someone who just last summer was denied entry to the military (I don't remember in what capacity) because he'd had a prescription written for Ritalin within the past 18 months. Never mind that he hadn't actually had to TAKE any. Just the prescription was enough for them. And he did not volunteer the information.

I've always wondered about this case. There was much concern over lies, recent accidents, alcohol in the car's front-seat area, uncertain destination, recent emotional response to a phone call, and questionable financial transactions. However, I've always felt that whatever happened happened at or very near the scene of the accident and it happened very soon after the accident. Initial passersby and immediate area residents have always been high on my list. This list would include initially arriving police or towtruck drivers which the missing woman might have unwisely trusted, but mainly I would focus on nearby residents. A young woman, no matter how athletic and adventuresome, does not abandon her vehicle and try to get to the nearest town; she tries to get to the nearest home with a light on or she takes a chance on a passing motorist etc.

The reports of a cadaver dog having given a strong alert signal are interesting but not specific to any individual or time span.

Whatever her state of mind and destination and intentions and sobriety, her troubles started on that icy road and I think her life ended not far from there and not very long afterwards.

goat wrote:

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that may be possible but to say its final resting place ie the accident scene was an in tended location doesn't add up to me. If your contention is this accident occurred on the way to dump the car and occupants took off maybe I could see this(still think mm at scene). but to say that accident scene was intended staging area makes no sense. please tell me why u think it is

goat,
No, I definitely do not think that the place where the Saturn ended up by the Weathered Barn curve was its intended location, but rather that a real accident prevented the car being driven any further.
I believe the intention may well have been to dump the car further east in the wilds of the White Mountains National Forest.
To dump the car more or less in front of a number of houses (as by the Weathered Barn) would have been sheer madness, IMHO, considering the real wilderness literally nextdoor.

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text> I obviously need to apologize for my statements, but I was spcifically discussing pinging. The affadavit isn't discussing a ping.... it's discussing a call being trasmitted....where did the statement come in to say that her phone pinged?(pung? had pung? have pung? not sure of what tense to use for the verb!) Did Sprint ever look at Maura's last ping and where it was from?

I realize now that my conclusion that Maura's cell phone was in the vicinity of the Londonderry Tower was wrong, at least in this dimension. However, there may be 11 or more dimensions according to string theory, so maybe ...

Never mind.

OK. So, did Det. Landry apply for this S/W before Sharon received the bill from Sprint? The phone number he was looking for probably is listed on that statement, except it could have any area code. It could have been someone with a cell phone that had a San Diego area code calling her from within 22 miles of the Londonderry Tower.

Anybody know what that number might be? I haven't seen anything in the timelines about someone calling her in the afternoon or evening on 2/9. Just her 2:18 pm call to Billy and her 4:37 pm call to check her voicemail.

BTW, this call still fits my theory. I just had it backwards.

Seems that I recall Fred drove Saturn from CT, with Maura following in his car...something about wanting the "tow", if needed, would be under
100 miles, cuz it wouldn't cost,
through triple A. Something else, maybe it
has been asked and answered...how did the Saturn end up in CT, in the first place? Was it registered/insured in MA BEFORE CT..or AFTER
it was brought to MA. Did Fred buy it in CT...? or MA..? and when...?
Either way, it was registered in Fred's name...Ohhhh, for an odometer
reading...from Title...to oil change...to...?...then and now..Again, perhaps
LE has all this information.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
They may, at that. It may be one of those things that they're keeping close to the vest because it's an ongoing investigation.

All you have to do is watch them closely and when they take off their vests, you pounce. You, being a firecat, are the most qualified for this assignment. As always, should you or a member of your MI team be compromised, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your existence. This tape will self destruct in 10 seconds.

Good luck Firecat.

Multiple Post. Sorry, but got lots to say.
Part 1
There's information we don't have that others have. Some people, like cops, hospitals, medical people, counselors, and lawyers can't share even if they wanted to because of confidentiality rules and regulations. People who have information that do not fall into one of those categories can share but choose not to for a variety of reasons that may or may not be legitimate. No matter their reason, however, we have no power to compel them to share what they know other the power of non-coerced persuasion. The absence of information about what happened in Amherst leaves us at a terrible disadvantage because we can't possibly figure out what happened to Maura without that information. At least that's my opinion and I suspect others have reached the same conclusion.

That leaves us with no other choice than to speculate with the few facts we do have so, if anyone who has information has a problem with that, I recommend they share their information or STFU.

Last night I asked some simple questions about the Saturn because the facts available to me limit me to reaching only one conclusion which is that there is a substantial probability that the dent in the hood was not caused by the accident on Rte 112 just past the Weathered Barn. But where did it happen, if not there?

Part 2
There is evidence in the form of a damaged guardrail that someone had an accident on Rte 112 a little over a mile from the intersection with Rte 302 and a report from a witness named Anne who at approximately 7 pm overheard a report about a car in the ditch on Rte 112 not far from the intersection with Rte 302. Since Beth (AKA Silky Boxer did not observe the damaged guardrail until a few days after February 9th, we lack sufficient information to conclude that the damage to the guardrail was caused by the vehicle Anne heard about over the scanner. We know that Sgt Smith was dispatched to investigate that accident but he gave up looking for it when he was dispatched to the accident where he found the Saturn locked and abandoned.

So we speculate that the Saturn might have been the vehicle that Anne heard about and we further speculate that the Saturn collided with the guardrail causing the dent in the hood and possibly other damage that caused the headlights to aim downward. Then we speculate that the accident past the Weathered Barn may have been caused in part by lack of visibility due to the cockeyed headlights.

We cannot draw a conclusion about whether the Saturn was in an accident on the drive north from Amherst unless we know its condition before it left. If we knew whether it was damaged and the extent of that damage, we could draw a conclusion regarding whether the Saturn was in more than one accident after it left Amherst.

Since we do not know its condition when it left Amherst and we do not know if it was in more than the one collision we know about just past the Weathered Barn and we don't believe the damage to the hood and possibly the cockeyed headlights was caused by that collision, we are left to ask when and where did the damage to the hood and possibly the cockeyed headlights happen? We know about the hit and run accident late Thursday night or early Friday morning at Triangle and Matoon streets less than a mile from the SW dorms where Maura lived (Kennedy) and was working (Melville), the discovery of a seriously injured and unconscious Vasi at the scene at 12:20 am Friday, and the upsetting phone call to Maura from a campus phone at 1 am and we wonder if those events are connected. We decide that Maura has an alibi when the accident happened because there is little likelihood that she could have left work without her absence being noted or reported to her supervisor. However, in the absence of any evidence to explain why the 1 am phone call so distressed her that her supervisor walked her to her dorm, we assume the call is related to the hit and run and, since we're still trying to figure out when the hood and headlight damage to the Saturn occurred, we speculate that the damage may have been caused by the Saturn hitting Vasi and the call to Maura upset her because the caller told her that he or she was driving the Saturn when the accident happened. No other conclusion makes any sense based on the facts available to us.

Part 3
Now I think the burden is on someone who knows additional facts that disprove this conclusion to come forward with those facts and if they don't, the conclusion will stand as far as I am concerned. I acknowledge that the conclusion may be wrong, but no other scenario explains these facts, including Maura's sudden decision to drive north.

If the Saturn was damaged in Bridgeport, then Mr. Murray knows it and if he discloses that fact, I'll go back to the drawing board. I'm not going to change my conclusion, however, because there are alternate explanations for each fact we know. Yes, maybe the upsetting call is due to some event unrelated to the accident, etc. I'm looking at the whole picture and, based on the evidence I know about, she was upset about the hit and run because someone she knew was driving the Saturn that struck Vasi and, since she and her father were going to be liable for his medical expenses and wrongful death if he died, she decided to get rid of the Saturn by disposing of it somewhere in the White Mountains where it would never be found and return to Amherst with the assistance of a confederate who would help her get rid of the car and give her a ride back to the campus.

Since she wrecked the Saturn on Rte 112, she was not able to disappear the Saturn in the White Mountains and, since she disappeared, the only conclusion I can draw from that sad and sorry circumstance is that her confederate picked her up and killed her because he or she was facing a far more serious consequence than civil liability. He or she was looking at going to prison for a long time and Maura was the only witness who could put him or her behind the wheel of the Saturn when it hit Vasi because he or she told her and he or she could not point the finger of guilt at Maura because she had an alibi.

Maura might be alive today, if she had disposed of the Saturn as planned with the confederate's assistance and that person gave her a ride back to campus. I used the word "might" because her confederate might have decided to kill her anyway fearing that sooner or later someone would find it and tell the cops who would trace it back to her father and then to her.

Part 4
The red pickup may or may not have been the confederate's vehicle. The theory works as long as the confederate has a vehicle. Similarly, the theory works regardless of the route taken by the confederate as long as he or she is in the vicinity to pick up Maura after the crash past the Weathered Barn. The theory also works even if the cops did not obtain any conclusive evidence that the Saturn was involved in the Vasi hit and run because the plan to dispose of the car depends only on Maura's and the confederate's state of mind regarding whether such evidence existed. Any visible damage, no matter how slight or innocuous, might have been enough to provoke panic because they did not know for certain if any witnesses saw the accident and what, if anything they reported. Ironically, if Maura had remained at the scene until the police arrived, she might not have been charged with any crime because I doubt she was intoxicated and their examination of the car the next day apparently did not cause them to believe that it had been involved in another accident, much less a hit and run.

The she-wandered-off-and-might-sti ll-be-alive theory may be what actually happened, but we lack any hard evidence of delusional behavior because no one has come forward to describe interacting with her when she was in that state. Her family knows whether she was delusional and if it does, it should reveal that information to the cops, if not to us, so that people continue to look for her rather than assume she is dead.

The she-left-the-scene-to-start-a- new-life theory may be what happened, but the stuff she left behind in the car causes me to conclude that this theory is unlikely.

The she-got-into-a-passing-car-and -was-abducted theory seems unlikely, but only as a theoretical possibility due to the remoteness of the area.

The she-was-abducted-and-forced-in to-the-car theory seems very unlikely because she would have attracted attention by struggling and screaming.

So, I'm back where I started, but now I have a theory that I'm going to hold onto until a new fact comes to light that sends me back to the drawing table.

Now I'm looking for probable places to look for her remains.

Part 5
Nevertheless, I believe Pansie has posted some thought provoking possibilities about mental illness that deserve serious consideration because I think her suggestions are the only ones that are sufficiently probable to support a belief that Maura is still alive. Whether it's appropriate to diagnose mental illness from afar is irrelevant. She hasn't diagnosed anything. She posted a theory to explain what might have happened that supports a belief that Maura still lives. To deny that possibility is to deny hope that Maura is still alive.

TX Quija, and Firecat for trying to answer my question re: written directions on index card. I was just about ready to yell for Elsewhere or
Mcsmom. My thought was/is that when I have to go
to a new destination....I will write, in large print, my version, to help me, as I drive...(ie X23, lf at XXX, rt at XXX etc) easier than
reading a map or printout on route.

Way back when "The Berkshires" were discussed..my thoughts were that would make sense because those towns in Berkshire County are geographically close to UM...and would naturally have students from that county....a plan to visit a fellow student/friend? I assume LE has found all her friends and acquaintances, either by computer or an address book.
Bottom line, whether Berkshires, Stowe, Burlington, or Bartlett, I still think
that Maura justed needed a break and/or time to think and re-group.

Euro..I remember that photograph...Even the black dresses were similar....I thought the same thing....I recall that it was mentioned in the Forum....I don't recall if she was ever
identified...? Relative..? Friend..? Dunno...perhaps someone here
will tell us who she is.

Anybody have an objection to me changing my name to Mr. Happy?

Re: Shack's message

"Euro..I remember that photograph...Even the black dresses were similar....I thought the same thing....I recall that it was mentioned in the Forum....I don't recall if she was ever
identified...? Relative..? Friend..? Dunno...perhaps someone here
will tell us who she is."

I think the woman in the photograph is Maura's best friend, or at least a good friend of high school, and I think I saw it on the Maura Missing website that has other photographs of Maura.

M

Eurobserver wrote:

<quoted text>
goat,
No, I definitely do not think that the place where the Saturn ended up by the Weathered Barn curve was its intended location, but rather that a real accident prevented the car being driven any further.
I believe the intention may well have been to dump the car further east in the wilds of the White Mountains National Forest.
To dump the car more or less in front of a number of houses (as by the Weathered Barn) would have been sheer madness, IMHO, considering the real wilderness literally nextdoor.

we more or less agree that an accident occurred at site. I truly believe that maura was at that site. as I said before, facts I believe are as follows. maura had a plan, someone else was aware on mm plan, Maura drove car to final resting place... I think the rest has two possibilities they continued w/ plan as planned (planned disappearance) or ran into trouble. I know that is no real revelation.

four ?'s to more experience on forum
1)has anybody checked to see if anyone else,(not necessary from u amherst) go missing at same time. possolbe accomplice.
2) has anyone checked to see if maura textbooks were sold back, I know that bookstores usually buy used books at tremendous discount. If desperate for money.
3)car practically had full tank is anyone aware of results from local gas station.
4)please explain red pu truck

Fool's gold #9649 I agree
Euro #9650 I agree