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Where is MAURA MURRAY

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“ Adopt Shelter Animals ”

Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Comments: 425

Gloucester, MA

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#10806
Sunday Dec 21
 

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elsewherebriefly wrote:
<quoted text>
Snowy White,
Liko Kenny helped Mr. Murray during physical searches for Maura as have a number of locals.
Just trying to find a glimmer of good in a number of tragic circumstances all around, this forum included.
Yes, I know that...and it speaks volumes to his good heart. I would have liked him if I had known him.

You see, many of us jumped in and expressed opinions and viewpoints about every aspect of that tragedy...often professing to know what we didn't know (and still don't know to be fact) while judging, taking sides...and even turning against one another.
By way of human nature, some of the principals were demonized while otheres hailed to be heroes, depending on one's viewpoint.
The reality is that these tragedies are complicated and sensitive.
I happened to have had tunnel vision in favor of Liko, but came to adjust my understanding and beliefs with time.

In retrospect, some of us are embarrassed to have been so passionate and mistaken about our initial conclusions...for having been poorly informed, or perhaps for projecting too much of ourselves into the equation.

To have fewer regrets, it is always wiser to take the higher road.

“ Adopt Shelter Animals ”

Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Comments: 425

Gloucester, MA

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#10807
Sunday Dec 21
 

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get real wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, weren't you a huge supporter of LK/cop killer?
Also, weren't you a huge supporter of CK?(such a lovely person, now isn't he?)
I wouldn't put any credence in anything a supporter of LK/CK had to say.
Exactly.
I was.
Boy, was I mistaken. A fool.

The Bash thread is the "collective" (ha!) wisdom for those who once trusted too much, and believed too easily until one by one we became skeptical, questioned more and accused less.

The internet is a ripe environment for such a thing to take wings, even for well-meaning and intelligent people.
Mastermind

Boulder, CO

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#10808
Sunday Dec 21
 

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Snowy White wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I know that...and it speaks volumes to his good heart. I would have liked him if I had known him.
You see, many of us jumped in and expressed opinions and viewpoints about every aspect of that tragedy...often professing to know what we didn't know (and still don't know to be fact) while judging, taking sides...and even turning against one another.
By way of human nature, some of the principals were demonized while otheres hailed to be heroes, depending on one's viewpoint.
The reality is that these tragedies are complicated and sensitive.
I happened to have had tunnel vision in favor of Liko, but came to adjust my understanding and beliefs with time.
In retrospect, some of us are embarrassed to have been so passionate and mistaken about our initial conclusions...for having been poorly informed, or perhaps for projecting too much of ourselves into the equation.
To have fewer regrets, it is always wiser to take the higher road.
Your postings are filled with rhetoric. What I am hearing is that you are saying that "higher road" is to be "sensitive" rather than inquiring towards the "truth" or even "a truth," or the possibility of "truth." While I agree that the "higher road" is to be taken, we have a vastly different version of what that "higher road" is. In my mind, the higher road is one where we have the courage to ask questions and take some risks even if we may regret them later. To me, your not participating in the "higher road" at all, but a very basic level of rhetoric that attempts to deter people from seeking the truth. The Higher Road is not to deter people from having dialogue into sensitive matters because of their personal interests. The higher road is a willingness to engage in inquiry and not pretend like you know everything or that you are "well informed" when others are not. Your rhetoric filled deterrants are more of a "personal projection" onto this forum than anything else I've seen here, which makes you as guilty of the accusations you place on other people than the rest of us. Your rhetoric also claims that to speculate on what the family may know and what they may be hiding is to be "poorly informed." That's simply not true. Why? Well, first we need to establish what it means to be "informed" in this case. Are certain posters here more "informed" than others, if so, what are they hiding from the rest of us? Otherwise, I would assume that most of us here have read the forum, have read most of the information on the internet, and we are all equally informed. Again, to say that it's a matter of being "informed" is just another attempt on your part to deter speculation into certain areas through your crafty rhetoric.

“ Adopt Shelter Animals ”

Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Comments: 425

Gloucester, MA

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#10809
Sunday Dec 21
 
and, "get real", i've had the decency to apologize directly to those who held a different view than my own in the K/M/F matter, regardless of whether they have chosen to accept it or not.

they, in turn, have had the pleasure of holding to the opposing viewpoint until some of us came to our senses and became more fair-minded.

i've always known better than to run with a herd, and surprised myself when i realized what was happening.
get real

Summerville, SC

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#10810
Sunday Dec 21
 

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Snowy White wrote:
and, "get real", i've had the decency to apologize directly to those who held a different view than my own in the K/M/F matter, regardless of whether they have chosen to accept it or not.
they, in turn, have had the pleasure of holding to the opposing viewpoint until some of us came to our senses and became more fair-minded.
i've always known better than to run with a herd, and surprised myself when i realized what was happening.
Interesting, most people were smart (maybe that's not the right word) enough not to be taken in in the first place.

“ Adopt Shelter Animals ”

Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Comments: 425

Gloucester, MA

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#10811
Sunday Dec 21
 
Mastermind wrote:
<quoted text>
Your postings are filled with rhetoric. What I am hearing is that you are saying that "higher road" is to be "sensitive" rather than inquiring towards the "truth" or even "a truth," or the possibility of "truth." While I agree that the "higher road" is to be taken, we have a vastly different version of what that "higher road" is. In my mind, the higher road is one where we have the courage to ask questions and take some risks even if we may regret them later. To me, your not participating in the "higher road" at all, but a very basic level of rhetoric that attempts to deter people from seeking the truth. The Higher Road is not to deter people from having dialogue into sensitive matters because of their personal interests. The higher road is a willingness to engage in inquiry and not pretend like you know everything or that you are "well informed" when others are not. Your rhetoric filled deterrants are more of a "personal projection" onto this forum than anything else I've seen here, which makes you as guilty of the accusations you place on other people than the rest of us. Your rhetoric also claims that to speculate on what the family may know and what they may be hiding is to be "poorly informed." That's simply not true. Why? Well, first we need to establish what it means to be "informed" in this case. Are certain posters here more "informed" than others, if so, what are they hiding from the rest of us? Otherwise, I would assume that most of us here have read the forum, have read most of the information on the internet, and we are all equally informed. Again, to say that it's a matter of being "informed" is just another attempt on your part to deter speculation into certain areas through your crafty rhetoric.
I am just offering up my experience, hard won, from a similar situation...about interested strangers examining and exploring a tragedy online.

Succintly, some of us were too quick to make judgements either for or against...and some of us were sensitive to one family, and insensitive to the others.

I am more careful now, but anyone can do what they think is right and follow their hearts.

“ Adopt Shelter Animals ”

Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Comments: 425

Gloucester, MA

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#10812
Sunday Dec 21
 
get real wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting, most people were smart (maybe that's not the right word) enough not to be taken in in the first place.
they were wiser, sooner.
FireCat

United States

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#10813
Sunday Dec 21
 

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get real wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, weren't you a huge supporter of LK/cop killer?
Also, weren't you a huge supporter of CK?(such a lovely person, now isn't he?)
I wouldn't put any credence in anything a supporter of LK/CK had to say.
There's another forum for such topics, get real.
get real

Summerville, SC

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#10814
Sunday Dec 21
 

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FireCat wrote:
<quoted text>
There's another forum for such topics, get real.
You know, I don't think I was the one that initiated the topic of LK.

Oh that's right, it was one of your group!

Now, back to the program.

Joined: Jan 25, 2008

Comments: 125

Shallotte, NC

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#10815
Sunday Dec 21
 

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Mastermind wrote:
<quoted text>
Whey you say such things are "ludicrous" you are either suggesting that you know something the rest of us don't, or you are engaging in a rhetoric to deter others from participating in speculation. I've raised a number of questions regarding the reasons why Maura's family is off-limits to any type of speculation, and why it is anything that Fred says is gospel and must be considered the truth, when in fact their statements are just as contradictory and suspect as some of the other witnesses. But no one wants to answer that. Instead, I just receive these answers filled with empty rhetoric as to why it's "ludicrous" to think such a thing w/o giving any substantial reasons as to why it is "ludicrous", and on and on and on.
While on the subject, why is it not ok to hammer out pieces of information surrounding the family that are "obviously unavailble", but it's ok to hammer out pieces of information surrounding the witnesses, Petrit, or anyone else involved. To me, it seems like a very clever attempt to cover something up. The only reason I have to believe that the family is in any way involved with her disappearance, or involved with witholding information is because of the clever attempts to distract and deter us from speculating in this area. That's all. There is a strange psychological discourse going on in this forum, and I am doing my best to pierce it's veil.
I just wonder if many of you are very crafty liars that are heavily invested in a cover up because you have personal information to withhold, or know the extent of someone's involvement and are personally invested in making sure that such information doesn't get out. When you so passionately try to deter us from asking certain questions, I certainly begin to feel this way. It's like a job for some of you to have a very specific stance that is to protect the family's integrity at all cost. Why?
lol.......I've been accused of being honest to a fault but never of being a crafty liar.

I am only speaking for myself here and no one else. Interestingly, integrity was a word discussed on Maura's old forum. I personally believe it is a quality that is lacking in others these days.

I have followed a number of forums and there is a vast amount of information on Maura's investigation out there. Although, I try my best to clue newcomers in on answers I may be able to provide and in this respect I've come a long way.

I used to say to the screen, "Gee, I spent days, weeks, and months researching all that on my own in an effort not to impose on others". But I guess being demanding and imposing is a way of life for some as well as lacking empathy and compassion.

My heart of hearts told me what happened to Maura the moment I learned about her disappearance and my immediate reaction was, "It could have been me".

It's why I am here and I will continue to stick around until Maura is found and the person(s) responsible are brought to justice.

I've had the same online identity since 2001. The NHSP have my information as do the volunteer private investigators and Maura's family as well.

I'm not hiding from anything, hiding anything from anyone, and have even managed to maintain my integrity in between.

How about you?
Mastermind

Boulder, CO

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#10816
Sunday Dec 21
 

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elsewherebriefly wrote:
<quoted text>
lol.......I've been accused of being honest to a fault but never of being a crafty liar.
I am only speaking for myself here and no one else. Interestingly, integrity was a word discussed on Maura's old forum. I personally believe it is a quality that is lacking in others these days.
I have followed a number of forums and there is a vast amount of information on Maura's investigation out there. Although, I try my best to clue newcomers in on answers I may be able to provide and in this respect I've come a long way.
I used to say to the screen, "Gee, I spent days, weeks, and months researching all that on my own in an effort not to impose on others". But I guess being demanding and imposing is a way of life for some as well as lacking empathy and compassion.
My heart of hearts told me what happened to Maura the moment I learned about her disappearance and my immediate reaction was, "It could have been me".
It's why I am here and I will continue to stick around until Maura is found and the person(s) responsible are brought to justice.
I've had the same online identity since 2001. The NHSP have my information as do the volunteer private investigators and Maura's family as well.
I'm not hiding from anything, hiding anything from anyone, and have even managed to maintain my integrity in between.
How about you?
Yes. My integrity is in tact. I wonder if you ask me this question as a means of suggesting that my integrity is not in tact, and that by asking the questions that I ask and speculating the things I speculate that I somehow lack integrity. That's nonsense. I feel that the simple gesture of asking me whether or not my integrity is in tact is another way of applying a rhetoric to this site to undermine inquiry. Meaning, that you now judge my integrity as a way of distracting me, or making me question for myself the validity of my own integrity because I ask these questions in hopes of deterring me from asking questions or disillusioning me from participating in this forum. Why are you asking me this question?
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#10817
Sunday Dec 21
 

Judged:

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RE: The Accident in Hadley with the Corolla.

I haven't found a live link to the Hadley accident report so my remarks are based on a brief reference to it in the Whitman-Hanson Express. I'm having a hard time making any sense out of the accident.

She leaves the drink-up at the dorm around 2:30 am Sunday after telling her friends that she's going to go see her dad at the Quality Inn, which is a questionable idea at best. Anyway, off she goes and she has the accident.

The scene of the accident is 4.9 miles from her dorm, which she should have been able to drive in 10 to 15 minutes, max. But the accident doesn't happen until 3:30 am, which leaves 45 to 50 minutes that are not accounted for.

But it gets more interesting because she's headed away from the Quality Inn when she has the accident since she's turning left from Hadley onto Maple.

BTW, this intersection is nowhere close to the most direct route between her dorm and the Quality Inn. First, she takes less traveled roads which seems to be a sensible strategy to avoid cops if you've been drinking. But she has an accident which is one of the best ways I know of to attract unwanted police attention at 3:30 am on a Sunday morning. But she doesn't get cited for DUI and there isn't anyway that her body could have burned off enough alcohol during one hour to reduce her BAC enough to make a difference. In fact, her BAC probably would have been rising during that hour if she took her last drink at 2:30 am.

Okay, if she wasn't impaired, why did she opt for the self-guided tour of rural farm land and sleeping cows in the dead of night instead of taking the freeway? And why was she headed home when she crashed the car?

Makes me wonder if the story that she told her friends about going to see her dad was a cover for a trip to see someone else.

I sense the hand of the evil Dr. Moriarity at work here. Come, Watson! We haven't a moment to lose.

M
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#10818
Sunday Dec 21
 

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I forgot to mention that if I had cracked-up my dad's new car by failing to negotiate a 90 degree left turn, at 3:30 am on a Sunday morning, I would have been hyper-cautious negotiating any 90 degree left turns for quite a long time afterward because I would be afraid of being nominated for the dubious dumb-driver-of-the-year award, if I crashed again.

Flash forward less than 48 hours to a similar 90 degree left turn at the Weathered Barn on Route 112. Well, I just don't see Maura making the same mistake twice within such a short period of time.

Of course, when I finally realized that the scene of that accident was quite a ways beyond the curve and consider that fact together with what I just mentioned in the previous paragraph, I get the feeling that the curve at the Weathered Barn was not a factor in causing the accident.

If not, how or why did the Saturn suddenly veer sharp right in the middle of a long stretch of straight road?

M
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#10819
Sunday Dec 21
 

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I posted this message on the new site in the thread: Theory -- Intended to start a new life. These are ideas that popped into my head. Assuming Maura left Amherst intending to start a new life, I have offered 7 potential reasons why she may have decided to start a new life. This message is the product of late night brainstorming that I posted as a starting point for discussion. Number 5 in your Sunday morning program is a reference to the possibility that she may have hit Mr. Vasi while driving the Saturn.

Feel free to add some more and/or rip one or more of these apart.

1. She felt trapped living a life structured by what her father, family, and Billy decided was best for her and their expectations that she would meet or surpass all of the goals they set for her. She ran away to begin a new life where she had the freedom and power to make her own decisions.

2. She decided she wasn't ready for marriage and ran away. Ye olde runaway bride theory.

3. She fell in love with someone else and the two of them decided to run away together and start a new life. Ye olde Romeo and Juliette theory.

4. She was having an affair with a married man who blew her off and realizing that she could not conceal her emotional distress from Billy and her family or explain why she was so miserable without hurting them, she decided to run away and start a new life. Ye olde unrequited love theory.

5. She had committed a serious crime (i.e., a felony) and believed that she was going to be expelled from school and sentenced to prison, so she decided to run away and start a new life.

6. She was struggling with a substance abuse problem and/or the onset of a mental illness and her father was insisting she withdraw from school and enter a long-term residential treatment program. She decided to run away and start a new life to avoid complying with his demands.

7. She just found out she was pregnant and decided against having an abortion due to her religious beliefs. She decided to run away, start a new life, and raise the baby as a single mom.

Mason
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#10820
Sunday Dec 21
 

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If anyone can direct me to a live link to the Hadley accident report, or post a copy of it, I'd be grateful. I want to make sure that I have the right location, and I'm correct about her crashing the car as she was attempting to turn left onto Maple from Hadley.

I'm particularly interested to find out if the officer asked her where she'd been and where she was headed because I want to compare her answer to what she told her friends back at the dorm approximately one hour earlier.

I'd also like to know if he administered any field sobriety tests.
Mastermind

Boulder, CO

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#10821
Sunday Dec 21
 

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Mason,

These are all great speculations, as usual. Perhaps we should go through each one, considering them in relation to the pieces of evidence and testimonies that we feel are most likely true, and attempt to eliminate certain theories until we come up with the one (or the few) that are the best. I'll begin by offering a few thoughts...

#2 - considering that they weren't even engaged, I don't think this one is as likely as some of the other suggestions you offer. They were engaged to be engaged, and this information only came out after her disappearance, correct? I said earlier that I felt that the mentioning of her being engaged was just a way of adding a certain melodrama to the case by those who were looking for her, as to say "oh, my, she was even engaged, how EXTRA sad that she is missing", similar to the reports that the Corolla was actually meant to be her new car.

#3 - her reported actions leading up to her disappearance really seem to me to be of a person acting alone. The way she searched and called for places to stay, then not actually confirming with anyone that she was going to arrive and stay anywhere, with multiple directions to several destinations in her car with her, just seems like she was acting alone, unless she was going with someone that was completely incapable of helping her to plan the thing out (in other words an incompetent airhead). Her actions seem drastic, desperate, and last minute. Doesn't speak volumes for her having had any help.

#5 - it seems as if this were the case, that we would have known about it, but not necessarily. Perhaps she committed a felony, but no one ever knew about it. I think if the cops had known about it at the time of disappearance, they would have probably mentioned it to the public, or it would have came out in the media, etc. I could be wrong, of course.

#7 - Was she really that religious? I think a lot of things point to her not being pregnant, like, the fact she was taking birth control pills. Although it's possible she got pregnant while she was on them, or had stopped taking them, the fact (or what people claim as fact) that she had them with her suggests to me that she was not pregnant. If she was pregnant, why take the birth control pills with her, why purchase a bunch of alcohol. Besides if she was so religious to refuse having an abortion, she probably would have been too religious to be on birth control in the first place, unless, there are an alterior medical reason for her taking the birth control.

#1 and #6 both seem to be the most valid of these speculations. I'm very curious to know what others think/feel about these speculations, and I will continue looking her and on the other board for responses.
yankee

West Orange, NJ

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#10822
Sunday Dec 21
 

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Mastermind wrote:
<quoted text>
Whey you say such things are "ludicrous" you are either suggesting that you know something the rest of us don't, or you are engaging in a rhetoric to deter others from participating in speculation. I've raised a number of questions regarding the reasons why Maura's family is off-limits to any type of speculation, and why it is anything that Fred says is gospel and must be considered the truth, when in fact their statements are just as contradictory and suspect as some of the other witnesses. But no one wants to answer that. Instead, I just receive these answers filled with empty rhetoric as to why it's "ludicrous" to think such a thing w/o giving any substantial reasons as to why it is "ludicrous", and on and on and on.
While on the subject, why is it not ok to hammer out pieces of information surrounding the family that are "obviously unavailble", but it's ok to hammer out pieces of information surrounding the witnesses, Petrit, or anyone else involved. To me, it seems like a very clever attempt to cover something up. The only reason I have to believe that the family is in any way involved with her disappearance, or involved with witholding information is because of the clever attempts to distract and deter us from speculating in this area. That's all. There is a strange psychological discourse going on in this forum, and I am doing my best to pierce it's veil.
I just wonder if many of you are very crafty liars that are heavily invested in a cover up because you have personal information to withhold, or know the extent of someone's involvement and are personally invested in making sure that such information doesn't get out. When you so passionately try to deter us from asking certain questions, I certainly begin to feel this way. It's like a job for some of you to have a very specific stance that is to protect the family's integrity at all cost. Why?
"Mastermind" - you're arrogant, annoying, presumptuous, unhelpful and utterly ignorant. And the bottom line is that the stupidity behind your posts is not helping this investigation to any extent. It seems that you only post in order to fulfill your own individual needs.
Mastermind

Boulder, CO

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#10823
Sunday Dec 21
 

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yankee wrote:
<quoted text>
"Mastermind" - you're arrogant, annoying, presumptuous, unhelpful and utterly ignorant. And the bottom line is that the stupidity behind your posts is not helping this investigation to any extent. It seems that you only post in order to fulfill your own individual needs.
Yankee, I don't understand why would you post such a thing. Is it you feel that you have something to say, and so you say it. Well, that's fine, but I have a great deal to say as well. I understand that you may disagree with the way I go about things, but I won't be deterred by the those who wish to deter me. As long as each post I make is responded to with empty rhetorical statements geared to make myself and others reading this forum believe a certain thing as "ludicrous", or that I'm "poorly informed" in questioning this or that, or that what I say is "unhelpful" or "utterly ignorant", I will continue making whatever "arrogant" "annoying" and "presumptous" statements I need to in order to get my point across. I won't be bullied by your reverse psychology into shutting up or leaving this forum. There is not one ounce of stupidity in my posts, that is just your opinion, and I would speculate that you have no idea what stupid really is. What personal stake do you have in making these claims about my character, since what you say is utterly false? Why aren't you interested in seeking the answers to the difficult questions? Why do you need to attack me in this way? Are you joining the choir who wishes to deter us from speculating the unthinkable. I am very interested in asking the difficult questions, speculating on the difficult scenarios, and not so much on defending why I feel there is a big, fat, cover-up and attempt to defer those who wish to engage in such things right here on this forum. It just so happens that is what you all want me to do, as a means of deterring me from particpating in a way that I feel is helpful, so you keep pelting me with these empty rhetorical statements. If you don't like it, don't address me; don't address me directly, and don't address me in any roundabout way that attempts to deter myself or others from asking the questions and making the speculations that we feel are pertinent. If you don't feel it's pertinent, then don't participate.
yankee

Summerville, SC

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#10824
Sunday Dec 21
 

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Someone thinks they are being really smart (actually a smart ass) by posting under a name that has already been used on this board.

Probably the same person that has been posting earlier from New Jersey.

Or maybe the same person that stole WTF's name.
yankee

Summerville, SC

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#10825
Sunday Dec 21
 

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yankee wrote:
<quoted text>
"Mastermind" - you're arrogant, annoying, presumptuous, unhelpful and utterly ignorant. And the bottom line is that the stupidity behind your posts is not helping this investigation to any extent. It seems that you only post in order to fulfill your own individual needs.
Just what do you hope to accomplish by posting under someone else's name? Just being a pot stirrer, trouble maker? Another way to change the subject of the discussion?
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