Where is MAURA MURRAY

yankee wrote:

<quoted text>
Just what do you hope to accomplish by posting under someone else's name? Just being a pot stirrer, trouble maker? Another way to change the subject of the discussion?

Oh, I get it. Your the real Yankee, and then there's the fake Yankee; the one who likes to steal other people's names. Just so you know that my comments weren't directed towards you.

In response to Masterminds remarks:
Part 1 of 3
#2 - considering that they weren't even engaged, I don't think this one is as likely as some of the other suggestions you offer. They were engaged to be engaged, and this information only came out after her disappearance, correct? I said earlier that I felt that the mentioning of her being engaged was just a way of adding a certain melodrama to the case by those who were looking for her, as to say "oh, my, she was even engaged, how EXTRA sad that she is missing", similar to the reports that the Corolla was actually meant to be her new car.
COMMENT: Billy had given her a diamond necklace and the cops found it in the Saturn when they unlocked and searched it at Lavoie's pursuant to the search warrant on Tuesday morning. Did she take it with her when she loaded her stuff in the Saturn before leaving Amherst, or was it already in the Saturn? She obviously didn't take it with her when she locked the Saturn and left the scene of the accident. Did she intentionally leave it behind and if so, why? Where did the cops find it? Was it in plain view, or was it inside a container, perhaps in the glove compartment, or a compartment in the console? Could she have inadvertently left it behind because she was in a hurry? The necklace certainly indicates Billy's love for her, but how did Maura regard it? Could she have intentionally left it behind as a symbol of her decision to reject marriage to Billy? Or, if she intentionally left it behind, maybe her reason for doing so had something to do with the person she accepted a ride from. If she knew the person and was in love with him, maybe she left the necklace behind because she didn't want him to see it and throw a jealous fit. Perhaps the necklace didn't mean much to her and she could not imagine herself ever wearing it, or perhaps she'd seen the movie Diamonds and was as opposed to wearing diamonds as most women are opposed to wearing fur coats.

Part 2 of 3

#3 - her reported actions leading up to her disappearance really seem to me to be of a person acting alone. The way she searched and called for places to stay, then not actually confirming with anyone that she was going to arrive and stay anywhere, with multiple directions to several destinations in her car with her, just seems like she was acting alone, unless she was going with someone that was completely incapable of helping her to plan the thing out (in other words an incompetent airhead). Her actions seem drastic, desperate, and last minute. Doesn't speak volumes for her having had any help.
COMMENT: She withdrew $298 from her bank account, nearly draining it and spent $40 on booze before leaving Amherst. She also stopped somewhere, probably not more than 10 miles from the accident scene, to fill-up with gas. I can't recall the cost of gas back then and I don't know the size of the gas tank. Let's say she spent $20, which would have purchased 10 gallons @$2/gallon. Now, she only has $248, assuming she hasn't purchased any soft drinks, munchies, or food for dinner. Motels and places to stay will accept cash up front to rent a room, of course, but still require the customer to provide a credit card that they run as a form of security in case the customer trashes the room or makes long distance calls from the room phone. Presumably, she would have known that; yet, she left her credit cards in the Saturn. Did she forget to take them or did she decide not to take them? If she decided not to take them, might the reason have been that she knew the person who picked her up and knew that he would pay the motel fees? If she had waited a week to start her journey north, she would have received two paychecks and a new car to replace the Saturn. Doesn't her decision to leave that Monday reflect a surprising lack of concern about having enough money to get away, unless she knew that she would be with another person who would pick up the tab -- in other words, a boyfriend/lover? Can her internet surfing looking at possible destinations in Vermont and New Hampshire be explained as an effort to gather information to pass along to this other person whom she expected to call ahead and make the reservations? Perhaps this other person was occupied with other responsibilities and duties all day on Monday and Maura decided to scout out the motel-reservation scene since he was too busy. Perhaps they decided to drive north in separate cars as part of an ongoing effort to hide their relationship from others. If so, does this secrecy indicate that the object of Maura's affections may have been a professor and/or a married man?

Part 3 of 3

#5 - it seems as if this were the case, that we would have known about it, but not necessarily. Perhaps she committed a felony, but no one ever knew about it. I think if the cops had known about it at the time of disappearance, they would have probably mentioned it to the public, or it would have came out in the media, etc. I could be wrong, of course.
COMMENT: We must not forget to distinguish between the real facts (i.e., a hit and run accident with no witnesses and a victim hospitalized in the ICU in a coma with serious head injuries) versus what may have been Maura's perception of the situation (a victim of a hit and run hospitalized in critical condition who might die and the panic-inducing thought that someone might have seen the vehicle and the driver and reported what they saw to the police).
#7 - Was she really that religious? I think a lot of things point to her not being pregnant, like, the fact she was taking birth control pills. Although it's possible she got pregnant while she was on them, or had stopped taking them, the fact (or what people claim as fact) that she had them with her suggests to me that she was not pregnant. If she was pregnant, why take the birth control pills with her, why purchase a bunch of alcohol. Besides if she was so religious to refuse having an abortion, she probably would have been too religious to be on birth control in the first place, unless, there are an alterior medical reason for her taking the birth control.
COMMENT: I don't know what her religious beliefs were, or even if she had any. I also do not know what her beliefs were regarding abortion. I agree with your points that she probably would not have consumed alcohol while pregnant and she probably would not continue to take birth-control pills either.
I agree that theories 1 and 6 seem more likely than the others.

M

Mason,

Appreciate your input.

Another odd thing is that she never mentioned the accident with the corolla to her friends that she was with that night. Supposedly acted as if nothing happened.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

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I read your post on Gary Ridgeway and it was very interesting and informative.
For a number of years the NHSP had Silkyboxer's maps of unsolved homicides and missing persons posted on their official website but for some reason they've been removed.
I'd like to add those maps to that particular thread you started.

Great idea. I haven't been fond of the idea that a serial killer abducted Maura primarily because I think most murder victims know the person who killed them and the motive usually has to do money, concealing a crime, jealousy, love gone bad, etc. So, my objection has to do with the order in which the various theories are examined and discussed than the substance of the theory.

Serial killers are tough to pigeonhole. In the early days of profiling serial killers, it seemed like the profiles shared many characteristics like middle age white guy who can't handle relationships, lives with his overbearing mother, can't hold down a regular job, and drives a panel truck without windows.

Instead a serial killer could be just about anyone and certainly could live anywhere from a densely populated urban environment to a sparsely populated rural area and anyplace between those extremes.

I am not familiar with the New England area and the situation with respect to the number of missing people and unsolved homicides. A map is the best way I can think of to visualize the extent of the problem and look for patterns.

I believe it's helpful to think of serial killers as people who lack the capacity to feel empathy and they are addicted to killing other people just as a heroin addict is addicted to using heroin.

A smart serial killer who lives in a rural and sparsely populated area isn't going to feed his habit by killing his neighbors. He's going to hit the road to find his next victim and he's likely to avoid focusing on finding victims in one area hoping to avoid drawing attention to his activities. Maps showing the locations of the GRK's body dump-sites, the last location where a victim was seen alive, and the network of roads linking those area helped to narrow the field of possibilities regarding where to look for the GRK's home base.

We should employ the same tactic.

Mastermind,

There has been information shared by the volunteer private detectives and had they believe that Maura's prior life in Amherst, West Point, or her family were of relevance to finding Maura they would have stated it. Instead they stated that Maura's vehicle appeared staged, there may have been a previous accident within 1-3 miles of the Weathered Barn, and they are confident Maura met with foul play.

As I stated before, in October of 2007 it was announced by NHSP Major Crimes Division that Maura's investigation is being treated as a potential homicide.

The FBI aided the MA authorities in devising a timeline for the weeks prior to Maura's departure from U-Mass on February 9th. They were involved for about 2 weeks until the NHSP declined further assistance.

Had Petrit Vasi, the Murray family, or West Point been of relevance to finding Maura the FBI surely would have duly noted it in the timeline and multiple agencies would have had jurisdiction over Maura's investigation rather than the NHSP whom have refused aid from all outside resources re: the FBI.

As for asking you if you had integrity, you made some pretty strong and unfounded accusations your reply to my post and I was letting you know where I've stood these past several years.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

Mastermind,
There has been information shared by the volunteer private detectives and had they believe that Maura's prior life in Amherst, West Point, or her family were of relevance to finding Maura they would have stated it. Instead they stated that Maura's vehicle appeared staged, there may have been a previous accident within 1-3 miles of the Weathered Barn, and they are confident Maura met with foul play.
As I stated before, in October of 2007 it was announced by NHSP Major Crimes Division that Maura's investigation is being treated as a potential homicide.
The FBI aided the MA authorities in devising a timeline for the weeks prior to Maura's departure from U-Mass on February 9th. They were involved for about 2 weeks until the NHSP declined further assistance.
Had Petrit Vasi, the Murray family, or West Point been of relevance to finding Maura the FBI surely would have duly noted it in the timeline and multiple agencies would have had jurisdiction over Maura's investigation rather than the NHSP whom have refused aid from all outside resources re: the FBI.
As for asking you if you had integrity, you made some pretty strong and unfounded accusations your reply to my post and I was letting you know where I've stood these past several years.

Elsewhere,

If it is true that Maura's life prior to the accident has no bearing to what happened, why so many unanswered questions? Why is there such secrecy?

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
Great idea. I haven't been fond of the idea that a serial killer abducted Maura primarily because I think most murder victims know the person who killed them and the motive usually has to do money, concealing a crime, jealousy, love gone bad, etc. So, my objection has to do with the order in which the various theories are examined and discussed than the substance of the theory.
Serial killers are tough to pigeonhole. In the early days of profiling serial killers, it seemed like the profiles shared many characteristics like middle age white guy who can't handle relationships, lives with his overbearing mother, can't hold down a regular job, and drives a panel truck without windows.
Instead a serial killer could be just about anyone and certainly could live anywhere from a densely populated urban environment to a sparsely populated rural area and anyplace between those extremes.
I am not familiar with the New England area and the situation with respect to the number of missing people and unsolved homicides. A map is the best way I can think of to visualize the extent of the problem and look for patterns.
I believe it's helpful to think of serial killers as people who lack the capacity to feel empathy and they are addicted to killing other people just as a heroin addict is addicted to using heroin.
A smart serial killer who lives in a rural and sparsely populated area isn't going to feed his habit by killing his neighbors. He's going to hit the road to find his next victim and he's likely to avoid focusing on finding victims in one area hoping to avoid drawing attention to his activities. Maps showing the locations of the GRK's body dump-sites, the last location where a victim was seen alive, and the network of roads linking those area helped to narrow the field of possibilities regarding where to look for the GRK's home base.
We should employ the same tactic.

Dr. Maurice Godwin stated in his findings that he believed Maura was a victim of opportunity and the perpertrator was a stranger serial rapist.

This day in age with the advances in DNA serial rapists are becoming wiser to such things as trace evidence.

Dr. Godwin stated that he believed Maura was the victim of a homicide to ensure there was no evidence of the sexaul crime itself. He also stated that he believed the perpetrator has done before and will do it again.

Audrey Groat disappeared in 1993 from highway 91 rest stop about 20 minutes up the road from where Maura disappeared. A young women by the name of Pamela Webb was abducted from the Maine Turnpike in 1999 when her truck got a flat tire. Her partial remains were found 11 days later in a wooded area of Franconia,NH. The bottom half of her body and her hands had been removed and she was badly decomposed. She was identified through dental records.

I'm troubled by the NHSP's decision to decline the FBI's offer to assist. I don't by any means regard the FBI as infallible, but the Bureau has access to so much more information than a state police agency that it seems odd to reject that sort of assistance in a difficult and confusing case like Maura's.

Many FBI agents do little to conceal their attitude of arrogant superiority when they work with or advise state cops how to do their jobs. Many state cops resent the Bureau and perhaps the NHSP's rejection of assistance was the result of some hurt feelings at NHSP.

Law enforcement turf wars can get ugly when fueled by wounded pride.

I have two simple questions for the NHSP.

1. If you folks had this case solved two years ago, why haven't you arrested anybody?

2. Does it ever make sense to place more importance on pride than duty?

oo00oo wrote:

<quoted text>
Elsewhere,
If it is true that Maura's life prior to the accident has no bearing to what happened, why so many unanswered questions? Why is there such secrecy?

The people whom have been providing information on behalf of Maura's family on these such public venues have openly stated:

"There are no secrets, only unknowns" and I wholeheartedly believe them.

Quite frankly I'm glad they don't know the answers!

People have taken it upon themselves to pick up the phone and question the Salomones, go the U-Mass campus (which resulted in someone be served with a restraining order), and calling the galleries where Maura may have worked.

Maura's is an active criminal investigation under the jurisdiction of the NHSP Major Crimes Division and people really need to be more understanding and respectful of this.

If Maura was murdered, what makes more sense to me is that she accepted a ride with someone male, who may have felt he deserved some "payback" from her in return for helping her out ... that a move was made by him, she rejected that, it became physical, and her death was as a result. In other words, not a serial killer or rapist but some guy who was far from being a gentleman, who had possibly been drinking, etc.

My thinking is prompted by the likelihood that a serial killer/rapist happening along at that point in time is more remote than the likelihood of some guy coming along who thought he deserved a little something for helping out -- while men like that aren't a dime a dozen, there are a lot of them "out there".

Also, I think a serial killer/rapist would be less likely to pick her up right there within view of at least 2 houses and with other cars coming along, etc.(SBD said several cars went by while he was on the phone at his place) But anyone might innocently give a girl a ride and not care who might see, and only later it turned into something else that even the guy didn't originally intend or foresee.

Advocator....I agree....

elsewherebriefly wrote:

<quoted text>
The people whom have been providing information on behalf of Maura's family on these such public venues have openly stated:
"There are no secrets, only unknowns" and I wholeheartedly believe them.
Quite frankly I'm glad they don't know the answers!
People have taken it upon themselves to pick up the phone and question the Salomones, go the U-Mass campus (which resulted in someone be served with a restraining order), and calling the galleries where Maura may have worked.
Maura's is an active criminal investigation under the jurisdiction of the NHSP Major Crimes Division and people really need to be more understanding and respectful of this.

Secrets and unknowns can be indistinguishable one from another when it comes to those of us in this forum, though. What I mean is, not being law enforcement ourselves there is no way we can accurately gauge whether someone is keeping information secret or whether he/she honestly doesn't know the answer. We have no resources to determine that, we aren't even face to face so we can look them in the eye to get a sense whether we are being told the truth or not.

From a personal standpoint, I don't mind secrets being kept on this case if they are so pertinent to LE's investigation that they should not be public knowledge. And whether or not I mind is beside the point because LE doesn't need my permission. The same is true of Maura's family for the same reason, i.e., the investigation by LE.

On the other hand, aspects of Maura's personality, her interests and so forth aren't secrets to a whole segment of people: her family and others who knew her. For purposes of what we do here, knowing more about her personality, her interests, etc., could be meaningful in brainstorming the possibilities, and it seems to me that if these things about her were not secrets to anyone before her disappearance, they should be safe to share here with us.

I'm not speaking for everyone else, only myself, but I think quite a few here would agree on this point. If all investigation is to be left to LE, then why are we here? Why did the MMM forum start up in the first place? Why did Weeper tell whiston to keep asking the questions?

Mastermind wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh, I get it. Your the real Yankee, and then there's the fake Yankee; the one who likes to steal other people's names. Just so you know that my comments weren't directed towards you.

You pathetic little loser. "yankee" - you're that much of an Internet loser with a virtual ego to the extent where you honestly believe that someone on some Internet forum saw your name, read your posts, and tried to "STEAL YOUR NAME" so that other people would think that they were YOU! You fucking nerd. Nobody wants to be you or wants your fucking name you loser. I just happened to choose the name "yankee". Internet losers like you and mastermind and your virtual egos never cease to amaze me.

Mastermind,
I rarely have seen anyone in my life as pathetically pitiful as you. Your blatantly ostensible psychological issues are so evident in every single post you make where you attempt to subliminally defend your thoughts and argue other peoples thoughts. You continue to post only to feel better about yourself, and its excessively obvious, yet you pretend that you're genuinely interested in this investigation regardless of how illogical, irrational and utterly stupid your posts are. And, regardless of how obvious you make it known, your psychological issues will force you to continue to post here. It's an absolute certainty. I feel sorry for you.

Mastermind, do you know what the outside world is? You know, where there are birds, trees, a blue sky, green grass, and snow (especially in Boulder, CO). Have you experienced any of this in the past few months? I doubt you have considering you post on this forum regularly every 10 minutes for the past few weeks. What a cool guy you must be in the real world. You must not have a single friend and still retain your virginity. You should talk to your shrink about this.

yankee wrote:

Mastermind, do you know what the outside world is? You know, where there are birds, trees, a blue sky, green grass, and snow (especially in Boulder, CO). Have you experienced any of this in the past few months? I doubt you have considering you post on this forum regularly every 10 minutes for the past few weeks. What a cool guy you must be in the real world. You must not have a single friend and still retain your virginity. You should talk to your shrink about this.

Excuse me, Sir. You need to talk to your shrink about why you hate so much and why you project everything you have found wanting in yourself upon a fellow traveler whom you do not know.

Elsewhere/Advocator....YES!#10 840

Since Maura was born May 4, 1982, she celebrated her 18th birthday on May 4, 2000. She would have graduated from high school later that month or in early June. She enrolled at West Point where her older sister was starting her senior year. Sometime during Maura's freshman year, Kathleen introduced Maura to Billy Rausch and the rest as people say is history. Billy and Kathleen graduated in late May or early June, 2001, and guess what happened three months later.

I doubt that there is a person reading and posting to this site who does not vividly recall that awful day.

I'm going to share a personal experience that I went through during the fall of 2001, because I think my story may help us to understand Maura's story.

The telephone rang around 6 am, Pacific time. The caller was my wife's cousin, a law student at Seattle University. He told me that World War III had begun and our lives would never be the same, and in ways that neither of us could then imagine, he was right.

The next day he called me and begged me to rescue him from his apartment. I soon discovered that he was not joking. He was hearing voices and hiding under the covers on his bed. My wife and I "rescued" him and took him to our home where we took care of him for the next three months. During most of that time, he was psychotic and paranoid. I spent a lot of time with him and plunged into his "reality" so that we could communicate. I affirmed what he was experiencing so that he would not feel alone.

From time to time, especially when he went on rampages destroying things in our home, my wife and I talked about calling 911 to ask the police to remove him from our home and confine him in a psych ward. We decided to continue trying to ever so gently lead him back to an even crazier world -- our world.

We succeeded and he went on to graduate from law school.

I wonder how Maura dealt with the events and aftermath of that horrific day. She withdrew later that semester. Some people have said that she was asked to leave. I don't know why she left, but I can't help but wonder if she did not suffer through experiences similar to my wife's cousin.

Could this be the dark family secret that many of us suspect is being hidden? I don't know.

I just wanted to share this story because I think a lot of people were badly traumatized by the events of that day and I do not think anyone should feel any shame for themselves or anyone else if their lives fell apart.

yankee wrote:

<quoted text>
You pathetic little loser. "yankee" - you're that much of an Internet loser with a virtual ego to the extent where you honestly believe that someone on some Internet forum saw your name, read your posts, and tried to "STEAL YOUR NAME" so that other people would think that they were YOU! You fucking nerd. Nobody wants to be you or wants your fucking name you loser. I just happened to choose the name "yankee". Internet losers like you and mastermind and your virtual egos never cease to amaze me.
Mastermind,
I rarely have seen anyone in my life as pathetically pitiful as you. Your blatantly ostensible psychological issues are so evident in every single post you make where you attempt to subliminally defend your thoughts and argue other peoples thoughts. You continue to post only to feel better about yourself, and its excessively obvious, yet you pretend that you're genuinely interested in this investigation regardless of how illogical, irrational and utterly stupid your posts are. And, regardless of how obvious you make it known, your psychological issues will force you to continue to post here. It's an absolute certainty. I feel sorry for you.

Just goes to show that if you want to get the job done right - you have to do it yourself.

Oh, but wait - it didn't work.