Where is MAURA MURRAY

I look forward to when dispatch calls from all involved services are released...

I believe he did, but I am not completely sure.

Thanks I've not been able to figure out whether or not he did. I know for the past 3 years I've seen the patrol car at his house, but prior to that I don't remember or didn't notice. Has anyone interviewed him?

Not to my knowledge.

WHITE WASH wrote:

This was handled by MA LE not even sure
NHSP have seen it much less have it.
I do not believe HPD has seen it just informed of it by MA LE.
<quoted text>

In May of 04 the SP served a subpoena for the ATM video surveilance tape for Feb.9,04

Anne wrote:

I think it is important to note here for you that at the time of this accident, I had no idea where they were talking about accurately, but now 4 plus years later, I have looked for Maura all around these twisted roads and have a better understanding of the complicating roads. What we heard and what we know personally now are different.

I'm not sure what you meant in your statement above. What were you referring to when you said, "what we know personally now?" Were you referring to your knowledge of area geography, such as the location of roads and certain places, being different now than it was in February, 2004, so your interpretation of what you heard over the radio back then was mistaken and has to be corrected in a manner consistent with your present knowledge of geography and places?

Or were you referring to what you heard over the radio conflicting with what you now believe happened in light of the information you've since acquired about the case?

If the former, would you be willing to reinterpret what you heard over the radio in light of your present knowledge of geography and locations?

If the latter, would you be willing to specify what information you heard that conflicts with your present knowledge of the facts?

I ask the last question because the "real" accident appears to have been staged, so perhaps the accident you heard about on the radio was based on intentionally false information (i.e., an accident that never happened) supplied by the person or persons who staged the "real" accident.

I'm not sure I'm making any sense. I keep wondering why no vehicle was found at the scene of the first accident since the driver left the scene in a privately owned vehicle leaving her vehicle behind. I also keep thinking that the stuff you heard on the radio may actually have been about the accident near the Weathered Barn, but if I'm right, the dispatch times must be approximately 25 minutes late.

Do you have an opinion whether the information you heard over the radio was about a different accident than the one near the Weathered Barn?

I just looked at my Google Earth view of Goose Lane and I noticed that Goose Lane is called Swiftwater Road from Woodsville to the intersection with Brier Hill Road and then the name changes to Goose Lane.

This appears to be the route that Sgt Smith took out of Woodsville. I wonder if he noticed an abandoned vehicle in a ditch on Swiftwater Road as he drove toward Goose Lane and Rte 112?

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>In May of 04 the SP served a subpoena for the ATM video surveilance tape for Feb.9,04

Thanks, Citigirl. That probably means they have a copy of the videotape, unless it was erased before they served the subpoena. Lots of times commercial videotapes continue to be used recording over earlier recorded events. I doubt that would have happened in such a short period of time and the bank probably saved the tape for later use in case it was needed.

BTW, I would be very surprised to discover that any police dispatch office in the country was clocking an incorrect time, particularly 20 to 25 minutes later than the actual time.

Nevertheless...

Anne wrote:

I don't have the answer to what happened that night but my immediate impression was that someone had been killed and when they gave new direction to wild ammonoosic road I knew that was my friend's area. I made 3 telephone calls and received 3 calls before 7:30 call from my friend.

If you made 3 calls and received 3 calls between the time you heard about the accident on Wild Ammonoosuc Road, which I presume to be the accident near the Weathered Barn, and 7:30 pm when your friend called you, Faith Westman's 911 call must have been long before 7:27 pm.

The dispatch times we have been working with can't possibly be right.

Mason wrote:

It would be SOP to show the video to anyone who knew Maura to determine if the person viewing the video could confirm the identity of the person in the video.
I can't recall where I read this, but I recall thinking there were two videos. One was recorded at the ATM machine and the other at the liquor store. I don't recall reading that either video was shown to anyone. I only recall a conclusory type sentence to the effect that Maura was alone, presumably because no one else was visible. I also recall reading that the Saturn was not visible in the videos.
I do not recall reading where the ATM and the liquor store were located, and I do not recall who identified her in the videos. Having looked at convenience store and bank videos in cases that I've worked on, I can truthfully say that I'm amazed anyone can positively identify someone in one of those videos, particularly if the person is wearing bulky clothes, a hat, and dark glasses.

Pretty sure there was only ONE video (though I don't recall which one it is) and that UMass viewed it and identified Maura. The family has NOT seen the video.

Pretty weird, no?

So yesterday there was the thought that Smith's car caused the damage to Maura's car - and that it would be looked at, from the back, the only part of the car where there isn't a picture at the new forum. I don't think anyone has ever said that there was evidence of a collision on _Smith's_ car. I do know that I have no way of knowing if an attachment to the back part of _Smith's_ car would not appear to be damaged if it hit Maura's car, causing the damage we have seen.

To my mind - looking at Smith's car would only be relevant if it were believed that Smith was involved some how.

What doesn't make sense is now the impression is made that Smith is not involved - but somehow Atwood is.

We've been going back and forth between the two in waves, forgetting about why we thought the person we just talked about was no longer worth looking into.

After Atwood left - there was activity near the car.

"After Atwood drove away, Faith Westman noticed the Saturn's interior lights switch on and off and witnessed a flurry of activity at the rear of the car, including a person standing at the trunk, according to private investigator John Smith, who spoke with the Westmans after the accident."

Anne says she heard radio chatter say that a female left in a private vehicle -_prior_ to 7:30.

"I made 3 telephone calls and received 3 calls before 7:30 call from my friend."

Westman heard a sound shortly after 7:00, but called the police at 7:27. This is another reason why I don't think Atwood talked to the driver at all.

One problem is we don't know what time the Marrottes started looking - but it had to be before 7:46 (When Atwood Called) minus the time
[at least] from when the Marrotte saw him drive by plus time to get out of bus, go into the house and call.

"Shortly after 7 p.m. Faith Westman heard a loud thump outside her white gambrel-style home at 70 Wild Ammonoosuc Road. Her house is located inside a sharp left-hand bend in the road; Westman lives there with her husband, Tim. The couple also owns The Weathered Barn, a well-known local landmark, which is across the street at 69 Wild Ammonoosuc Road. In this barn, Tim Westman, a renowned craftsman, restores antique musical instruments.

Faith Westman peered out her window and saw Maura Murray's black Saturn lodged in a snow bank a short distance from her home. The car was facing west on the eastbound side of the road. From the look of things, it was clear there had been some kind of accident.

At 7:27 p.m. Westman called the Grafton County Sheriff's Department to report the vehicle, which she described as being in a "ditch.""

"Atwood eventually got through to the Hanover Regional Dispatch Center, which in turn alerted the Grafton County Sheriff's department at 7:43 p.m., 16 minutes after Faith Westman's original call."

"Three minutes later, at 7:46 p.m., Haverhill police Sergeant Cecil Smith arrived on the scene. He had been dispatched at 7:29 p.m. following the call from Faith Westman."

I think the times don't reconcile for sure - but from any account - I don't see how any of the people mentioned really had an opportunity to do anything we're interested in figuring out.

Smith was there too late, Atwood was seen leaving before the activity at the car and the other two witness groups were too far away.

The radio traffic does not fit in the timeline. I can only guess that he additional radio traffic might have been from another jurisdiction where someone crashed the Saturn, but recovered from the crash and continued on until 7:27 when the car could go no further. The other jurisdiction probably checked it out, found nothing and forgot about it. Maybe the person who called elsewhere is a potential witness.

We need to take another look at Robinson Ordway's statement about the time she encountered the red pickup truck and when it left the parking lot at the Swiftwater Stage Stop convenience store and E/B on Rte 112. Here it is from Lady Gray's message #1200 at page 59,

"I wish I could give an exact description of the truck but I can not. I was walking that night about 7 p.m to the local store. As I was walking up the hill, a truck passed me and slowed down. When it got to the middle of the hill it stopped in the road. I immediately looked at the plate and noticed it was from Massachusetts. There is only 1 street light there and I could not tell how many people were in the vehicle. As I got closer to the truck it took off up the hill. When I rounded the corner to the store, I could see the truck in the driveway of the store. As I walked into the parking lot, which is well lit, the truck took off toward the crash site,(of course at that time I did not know there was a crash).

As for the red truck, it slowed, then stopped and waited for me to get closer, then took off up the hill. He did not leave the store parking lot in any sort of hurry.

When I entered the store I asked if she saw the people in that truck and she said no, no one had come in. I told her about them stopping in the hill. Then we just forgot about it. I stood in the store a while and was there when the police and ambulance went by. I never saw that truck again. The only way I can describe it is that it looked like someone who delivered wood. That was my first thought about it........red, MA plates and delivered wood. Either having a wood body or even just slats in the body. It was not a king cab or extra cab. Just a regular truck. That is all I can tell you.

I was in the Swiftwater store for 1/2 hour - 45 minutes. It was about 20-30 minutes after I was there that the police went by. I am not at all Maura's size and in fact I was bundled up that night. I believe I caught the truck off guard as I was walking well off the road and as they passed I walked back on, which is why I believe they stopped completely. They could not see me without any street lights and maybe went to the store and waited for me to get up there to get a better look??? I don't know. That is just how it seemed to me.

The truck didn't scare me. My thought is that they/he/she thought I was someone else. That is what I was thinking that night. When I saw them sitting at the store, I again thought, they really think I am someone else. And as I got closer and I could see the driver moving around - I was thinking, there, I am not the person you are looking for, and he drove off. I wish to God I could remember what I was wearing that night, but I can't.

Someone asked about the truck and whether it was 4 wheel drive. I believe it was. I have been looking at trucks and have determined that it was definitely a four wheel drive or at least it was a 3/4 ton pick up, because it sat up high. The other thing I remember is that the window in the back was hard to see in....it wasn't very large.....which tells me it was an older truck maybe???"

Looks to me like she saw Sgt Smith's vehicle pass by the store before 7:30 pm and it's only a mile from there to the scene of the staged accident. This is another example tending to show that the dispatch-tape times are substantially off.

Too many independent observers agree with each other regarding the times that certain events happened. Therefore, the tape times are wrong.

Eurobserver,

I think the radio traffic that Anne heard may have been about the accident near the Weathered Barn and not a previous accident. The dispatch tape times appear to be 20 to 25 minutes later than the actual time the events occurred. If so, the red pickup truck that Robinson Ordway saw would have arrived at the staged accident scene at exactly the right time. It would not have had to park and wait for the Saturn to show up.

If Atwood told Fred Murray that the Saturn was located where Fred Murray hung the wreath, Atwood moved the location 100 feet closer to the Weathered Barn and out of his line of sight from the front porch or the bus. Isn't that a tacit admission that he saw something and covered up what he saw?

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Pretty sure there was only ONE video (though I don't recall which one it is) and that UMass viewed it and identified Maura. The family has NOT seen the video.
Pretty weird, no?

Very weird and it causes me to suspect that someone may have said that the person in the videotape definitely was not Maura Murray and the cops agreed but decided that they didn't want that information revealed, even to the family.

Of course, it's also possible that Maura was identified and the cops no longer regarded her identity to be an issue. I don't know why the family wasn't told that, however. I can't see how that information would have compromised the investigation since it's what everyone expected and that's why I suspect the first alternative.

OK, I'm going to shut up and stop having a conversation with myself.

mason,

I agree with you in regard to Robinson Ordway's statement. It's tantalizing to think about how she claims that it seemed as if the driver of the red truck was stopping to see if Robinson was the person that they were looking for, and when the driver realized she wasn't, he/she kept it moving.

It's far too much of a coincidence that a highly suspicious red truck with MA plates was seen driving towards the area of the site of the accident at the same time that the accident apparently took place - especially since it's such a small town.

Do you know if the authorities have been notified of this and, if so, whether or not they've investigated it?

GatorChamps2006 wrote:

mason,
I agree with you in regard to Robinson Ordway's statement. It's tantalizing to think about how she claims that it seemed as if the driver of the red truck was stopping to see if Robinson was the person that they were looking for, and when the driver realized she wasn't, he/she kept it moving.
It's far too much of a coincidence that a highly suspicious red truck with MA plates was seen driving towards the area of the site of the accident at the same time that the accident apparently took place - especially since it's such a small town.
Do you know if the authorities have been notified of this and, if so, whether or not they've investigated it?

They were notified and apparently before they talked to her they spent some time stopping red pickup trucks. They appear to have decided that the one she saw had temporary NH plates that look similar to MA plates. No arrests.

The red pickup truck is one of the biggest and most intriguing mysteries in this case.

TO Benjamin Franklyne & Weeper:

Benjamin Franklyne wrote:

After Atwood left - there was activity near the car.
"After Atwood drove away, Faith Westman noticed the Saturn's interior lights switch on and off and witnessed a flurry of activity at the rear of the car, including a person standing at the trunk, according to private investigator John Smith, who spoke with the Westmans after the accident."

Ben,

Weeper's message # 4221 at page 210 refers to the Westmans continuing to watch what's going on at the Saturn until Atwood arrives, but the above quote attributed to PI John Smith has them continuing to watch after Atwood leaves leaves. So, my question is did they observe the person they disagree about (man sitting in the passenger seat smoking vs. woman with a cell phone) before or after Atwood left. I'm thinking this happened before Atwood arrived because I don't believe there was enough time for this to have happened after Atwood left and Sgt Smith arrived.

Agree or disagree?