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Mastermind
Boulder, CO
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Judged:
1
1
truth wrote: <quoted text>
If so, then why would LE pull over red trucks at all? Unless they were not... There are many reasons why LE may have decided to pull over red trucks, as I am sure the accident at the WB wasn't the only thing LE was investigating at that time. Someone just mentioned a few pages ago that a red truck may have been involved in an incident at a store/gas station earlier, and then the driver of a red truck was acting suspiciously at the Stage Stop as reported by RO. Information regarding the red truck wasn't offered up until years after Maura's disappearance. It seems at that time people jumped all over it, like THIS MUST BE IT!!!(the explanation for Maura's disappearance). A random red truck rolls by and the random people inside abduct Maura within a one or two minute time frame that doesn't even fit within the other reported times for the accident, the calls to 911, etc.etc. If a red truck was involved, then it probably wasn't any random red truck, but a red truck that had a very particular role to play in the staging of the accident scene at WB. Meaning, that it came from Mass with whatever/whoever delivered Maura's car to the accident site. The time frame for the truck at the Stage Stop, the suspicious behavior reported by RO, would all make much more sense if the accident were being staged, and the red truck just needed to be at the right place at the right time to pick up an accompliss. No one saw Maura in NH, although the SBD claims to, he is not really a reliable witness. Other than SBD's "story" what evidence is there that Maura was in NH at all? Because her car was found there? Well, there are many ways her car could have made it to NH if someone was trying to cover their tracks in Amherst by staging an accident in NH. But this has all been said before.
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truth
Nashua, NH
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Quija wrote: <quoted text>
It was a teenager, a male student with family from out of state. No call to the police had been officially logged in at that point (or showed up on the Sheriff's log release to the public, anyway)--- it was 2 hours later. IMO, Beckett School workers, counselors, administration, etc. might have been looking for him before making an official call to put it on the record. Just thinking out loud... "It was a teenager, a male student" Could his appearence be similar to that of RO or MM (from a distance). "with family from out of state." The red truck had out of state plates (MA, maybe) "IMO, Beckett School workers, counselors, administration, etc. might have been looking for him before making an official call to put it on the record." This could be the read truck 'looking' for him.
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Mason
Paducah, KY
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I've got a few questions about the Saturn's condition that need to be answered to definitively decide if it was driven or towed to the staged accident scene on Rte 112 midway between the Weathered Barn and the Bradley Hill Road intersection.
1. Does anyone know if the headlights could be turned on? We know they were not aimed properly, probably due to the damage caused by whatever impacted the engine hood. Driving after dark might still have possible, although risky, unless the headlights didn't even light up. The car could not be driven after dark if that were the case.
2. We know the cooling fan was pushed back into the radiator and we know that the engine started when Fred Murray got it back from the cops at Lavoie's. My question is how far could the car have been driven with the radiator compromised by the fan? If the radiator leaked and the anti-freeze drained out, the engine would have overheated within a few miles even in winter and the metal would have melted destroying the engine.
3. Regarding the open back window, did anyone check to see if the crank or button that raises and lowers the window was functioning properly? As an aside, I sure hope the button, crank, or window was dusted for prints because I doubt Maura opened that window.
4. I re-ask Eurobserver's question -- what condition were the tires in?
5. Did anyone notice if the driver's seat was in the position that Maura would have placed it, if she were driving?
6. What size does a deflated airbag have? Could the driver have been using it as a blanket and pulled it up to partially cover her face?
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Quija
Concord, MA
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truth wrote: <quoted text>
Just thinking out loud...
"It was a teenager, a male student"
Could his appearence be similar to that of RO or MM (from a distance).
"with family from out of state."
The red truck had out of state plates (MA, maybe)
"IMO, Beckett School workers, counselors, administration, etc. might have been looking for him before making an official call to put it on the record."
This could be the read truck 'looking' for him. Yes, the red truck could've been someone looking for the teen from Beckett, although the public's copy of the Sheriff's Log doesn't show the "missing teen" call logged in until 2 hours or so later. His family I believe comes from Maine, tho, not sure. I understand he was along the power lines which run pretty much north-south crossing Rt. 10 and Goose Lane to the north, and French Pond Road midway back to Route 25 in Pike/Haverhill Cty where the school is. No report on what the teen looked like. Maura was thin and wiry, RO identified herself as being heavier, older than Maura, and laughingly (on a forum) stating it wasn't likely she'd be mistaken for Maura.
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Mastermind
Boulder, CO
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Mason wrote: I've got a few questions about the Saturn's condition that need to be answered to definitively decide if it was driven or towed to the staged accident scene on Rte 112 midway between the Weathered Barn and the Bradley Hill Road intersection.
1. Does anyone know if the headlights could be turned on? We know they were not aimed properly, probably due to the damage caused by whatever impacted the engine hood. Driving after dark might still have possible, although risky, unless the headlights didn't even light up. The car could not be driven after dark if that were the case.
2. We know the cooling fan was pushed back into the radiator and we know that the engine started when Fred Murray got it back from the cops at Lavoie's. My question is how far could the car have been driven with the radiator compromised by the fan? If the radiator leaked and the anti-freeze drained out, the engine would have overheated within a few miles even in winter and the metal would have melted destroying the engine.
3. Regarding the open back window, did anyone check to see if the crank or button that raises and lowers the window was functioning properly? As an aside, I sure hope the button, crank, or window was dusted for prints because I doubt Maura opened that window.
4. I re-ask Eurobserver's question -- what condition were the tires in?
5. Did anyone notice if the driver's seat was in the position that Maura would have placed it, if she were driving?
6. What size does a deflated airbag have? Could the driver have been using it as a blanket and pulled it up to partially cover her face? In regards to inquiry number two, even if the car was leaking antifreeze, the engine block still hadn't frozen/melted since Fred was able to start the car (assuming Fred is telling us the truth, of course), so if the car was no longer driveable, it probably wasn't because the engine couldn't run. In order for the car to be delivered to the site, it may have just needed to be running reasonably well. What if the car were delivered by a large tractor trailer to a road that was traveled less frequently, then driven a short distance to the accident site at the WB, where the driver was then picked up by, say, someone in a red truck who followed the tractor trailer to NH from MASS?
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Mason
Paducah, KY
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Judged:
1
Peri, The reason why I adjusted the dispatch times by moving them up 20 minutes was to see how that might affect the theory that the Saturn was in an earlier accident and the theory that the red pickup truck may have picked up Maura. For quite awhile I've been puzzling at the apparent discrepancy between witness recollections of times and the dispatch times. For example, the Westmans said they heard the loud thump at 7 pm or a little after, but according to dispatch, Faith Westman didn't call 911 until 7:27 pm. We know they watched the scene from their window for awhile before she called 911, but did she really wait for approximately 25 minutes before she decided to call 911? I decided that the Westmans must have been mistaken about the time they heard the thump. I had the same problem with the information that Anne heard over the radio. Although the information that she heard seemed to be an accurate description of the accident on Rte 112 halfway between the Weathered Barn and the Bradley Hill Road intersection, including the report of the female driver leaving the scene in a POV, it couldn't have been the same accident because she heard it around 7 pm. I've doubted Weeper's theory that the report Anne heard was a description of a previous accident because we haven't found any reference to it any log and the whole idea seems a bit contrived. I had the same problem with the hospital employees recollection of being passed on Goose Lane by Sgt Smith at 7:10 pm which would have placed Smith at the Weathered Barn accident before Faith Westman reported it. I finally asked myself if three independent witnesses (the Westmans, Anne, and the hospital employee) could each have been mistaken about the right time (i.e., 20 minutes early), or was the dispatch time 20 minutes late? Since all of the facts reported by those witnesses and Robinson Ordway sync perfectly with the events noted in the dispatch log, but for the 20 minute gap, I decided maybe the simplest answer to the confusion caused by the disparate times is that the dispatch log's time stamp was running 20 minutes late. I must add that I'm not very comfortable with that conclusion because I've never heard of a police dispatch office being off like that. Just another conumdrum, huh?
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George Washington
Stockton, CA
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The thought of what awaits us at Amherst robs me of my sleep.
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truth
Nashua, NH
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George Washington wrote: The thought of what awaits us at Amherst robs me of my sleep. GW, can you elaborate on this? Hopefully, without any riddles...
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George Washington
Stockton, CA
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truth wrote: <quoted text>
GW, can you elaborate on this? Hopefully, without any riddles... What keeps coming back no matter how many times you throw it away?
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Mason
Paducah, KY
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Judged:
1
TO: Weeper, Detective Columbo, and Peripeteia. peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote: <quoted text>
perhaps this question whiston has already been answered, are we sure Maura was gone when Smith arrived, Marrott I believe stated that she was there 1-2 minutes before the police arrived....
I believe it is impossible for Forcier not to have seen what was going on, he states he checked his log, which the police said they verified, and he logged out at 7 p.m.
The time that map quest and other interactive maps state it would take to drive there is approximately 30 minutes. That takes him to the accident scene on or about the time Maura disappeared, so perhaps there were not the emergency vehicles yet at the scene.
If we go by Marrott's statement and Faith Westman's timeline Maura went missing at 1944-1945.
However, Atwood states that when he got through to police he went outside, 1943 (although he states that police were already there) and assumedly he saw emergency flashing lights...
Therefore, either someone arrived sooner than Smith, or Atwood was mistaken and simply saw a car with flashing lights, but my point being that Atwood was outside looking at the time Maura disappeared, also since he did not come to the phone at that time, we do not know where he was exactly as we only have his word that he went to the school bus to do paper work....
Neither the school bus driver or the construction worker have alibis as to the time Maura went missing, using the timeline that we know and their statements...
Forcier states he saw the Youth after 8p.m., then if Forcier drove the 4-5 miles he should have been home by the latest 8:15, and he could not have missed what was going on down the street, impossible...fire, ambulance, police, tow truck,
Atwood at scene...no way he saw nothing, however, if he arrived home at the suspected time of shortly after 7:30.
If he did not get home until 8:15, what was he doing in the extra 45 minutes, no way it took until 8:15 to get home, where did the construction worker go..? I've asked whether Atwood was in a position to see the Saturn from his front porch prior to Sgt Smith's arrival at 7:46 pm. Detective Columbo said he was. I suspect, however, that Atwood could not have seen the Saturn from the front porch, if it had been located where Fred Murray placed the blue wreath, which is about 100 feet closer to the Weathered Barn and farther away from Atwood's front porch than the place where the Saturn was discovered. I think I recall Weeper mentioning that the PIs believed for about two years that the Saturn was found where Fred Murray placed the wreath. Is my recollection correct? Who is responsible for the mistaken assumption? Is Atwood the source of the false information? If so, it looks to me like he wanted to conceal that he was in a position to have seen what happened at the Saturn when Maura disappeared and that in turn suggests that he saw something that he was determined conceal from Murray and the PIs. Agree or disagree?
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Thomas Jefferson
Boulder, CO
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George Washington wrote: <quoted text>
What keeps coming back no matter how many times you throw it away? What awaits you? What have you thrown away, but, yet, still beckons you? Is it an answer George? Is it an answer that rob you of your sleep? Or do you already have the answers George? I think the answers to the question on everyone's mind on this forum lie in Amherst, but it's sure tough to crack that shell. Better to go to Amherst yourself and find those answers George.
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Anne
Middletown, VA
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Judged:
2
1
Atwood could see from his front porch.
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Joined: Jun 10, 2008
Comments: 299
Woonsocket, RI
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peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote: Columbo, are there any guard rails near the Valley Road and Lodge Lane....thanks
near the lodge, is there a pond or brook to the
left, is there an incline leading up to the A-frame if you were walking up from the Lodge... there are no guard rails on Valley Rd or Lodge Lane. There is no incline to the A Frame, there is an incline/hill behind the Lodge and also to the right of the Lodge(on Lodge Lane). There's a large gathering of water behind and to the left of the A frame that was intended to be a third lake, and there is a stream and pond to the right on Lodge Lane at the base of the ski slope and going toward and behind the tennis courts. I don't know of a pond or brook to the left--it's pretty rock solid and a lot of hiking/snowmobiling trails.
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Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Comments: 472
Södertälje, Sweden
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Judged:
2
Hello all, I have been reading the posts over the last few days with great interest. The theory that the mysterious red truck may have had nothing to do with Maura shows the enormous complexity of this case and the vast number of possible variables. The lack of solid, publicly known facts is indeed frustrating, to say the least. Just consider the place where Maura´s Saturn ended up on Rte 112 between the Weathered Barn and the Bradley Hill Road intersection: 1. Was Maura the driver of the Saturn at this point and did she suffer a real accident here? 2. Was Maura the driver of the Saturn at this point and did she (possibly together with a "helper") for some reason "stage" an accident here? 3. Was someone else than Maura the driver of the Saturn at this point (either a criminal or a "helper" of Maura´s) and suffered a real accident here? 4. Was someone else than Maura the driver of the Saturn at this point (either a criminal or a "helper" of Maura´s) and for some reason "staged" an accident here? I must admit that I find it most difficult to believe that an accident would have been wilfully staged at this particular place in the vicinity of several houses and with the wilderness of the White Mountains National Forest practically starting just beyond the Bradley Hill Road intersection.
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Benja
Concord, MA
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Judged:
2
Mason wrote: I offer the following interesting comment from Lady Gray, with the disclaimers that she attached because I believe she would be justifiably upset, if I didn't. This quote is from her message, which is message #997 at page 50 of this topic.
"The package(s) in Maura's car that were automobile light bulbs........were for small lights such as blinker lights.
There is an alternative use for these little bulbs that drug abusers use them for. They break them in half and use that half to place a drug substance into. They then put fire underneath the half and melt the drug.....for either injection or to smoke.
And, by my stating the above paragraph, I am in NO WAY SUGGESTING MAURA WAS A DRUG USER. My thinking, if this is true, is that if they were used for ingestion of drug substances, they were used by perps who had control of Maura's car.
Or, it could have simply been there because the blinkers needed new bulbs."
__________
Is it possible that Maura was wittingly or unwittingly carrying a load of drugs stashed somewhere in the Saturn to a destination somewhere up north, perhaps in the area around Haverhill, and a small group of people in Amherst or Haverhill who knew about her trip, intercepted her, hijacked the shipment, and staged the accident?
When the cops searched the Saturn on Tuesday, did they perhaps find a little residue on a bulb and advise the Amherst Police Department regarding their discovery and ask them to check the damaged Corolla to see if it contained similar evidence of possible drug use?
Beagle reported that someone who worked at the body shop told him that the local authorities were all over the Corolla the same day the adjuster viewed it.
Maybe Maura intended to make the delivery Monday evening and spend a few days up north before returning to school, but was intercepted and kidnapped en route? Maybe she didn't even know that she was carrying a load?
People in difficult financial circumstances are often recruited by drug dealers who tell them to drive to a particular place and leave the car unlocked for a half hour or so. While the person goes to a nearby cheap restaurant with inside seating, the car is packed with the load and when the driver returns, he or she drives the car to another location in another city where the same scenario is followed to unload the car. The driver returns to the car and drives home without ever having seen the drugs or the people who loaded and unloaded them.
The driver gets $500 for their time and expenses, plus a quantity of their drug of choice for personal use. This has been a common scheme on the west coast for years.
Make sense? No.
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Benja
Concord, MA
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Benjamin Franklyne wrote: Why would you think that Maura was even there?
The idea that Maura even drove the Saturn at all, let alone over 100 miles is almost unbelievable given her previous refusals to drive.
Why would she suddenly,(without any explanation as far as we know) decide to take risks she felt too dangerous to take in the short term earlier?
Why would anyone make any noise when dumping a car or pick a residential area? Because...
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Benja
Concord, MA
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Judged:
1
oo00oo wrote: <quoted text>
Weeper,
Thank you for your response. And thank you for answering in detail. Most responses on this site & MMM are one word answers. Which just creates more questions. I am however quite surprised you have no interest in Amherst. I think it needs to be established that Maura left Amherst. JMO.
So many more questions, but I don't want to annoy anyone. Very considerate of you not to annoy anyone so that Maura might be found and the reason for her disappearance established. Please, no annoyances.
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Benja
Concord, MA
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oo00oo wrote: <quoted text>
I think it needs to be established that Maura left Amherst. Kinda.
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Benja
Concord, MA
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Judged:
2
2
Mason wrote: I don't think there's much doubt that Mr. Atwood has given conflicting versions of what he saw and did at the scene of the accident, so his credibility is tarnished, if not in tatters, to put it mildly. Not his, yours.
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Benja
Concord, MA
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Judged:
3
Detective Columbo wrote: Not to my knowledge. What knowledge?
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