Where is MAURA MURRAY

The significance of the Rt. 112 crash site should not be neglected, but there are other ways of looking at Maura Murray's disappearance.

One way, much maligned, is to look at it from the top down. Take, for instance, a small of similar disappearances and see whether there are among them a number of common factors, even if you don't readily understand their significance. If the number of common factors is too many, then take a closer look. This method may not by itself solve a crime, in the sense that it yields directly and immediately some kind of hard evidence, but it might give real investigators something to look further into.

For example (and it's not the best example), say you already know someone, Mr. Big, who imports steroids and Human Growth Hormone from China on a large scale. Say you know something about his distribution network, which he directs. Say you know that he has a boss, Mr. Bigger, and Mr. Bigger has a boss, Mr. Biggest. Let's say all three Bigs have clients who want la creme de la creme of HGH, or some other kind of human tissue or body part or whatever. Say that these clients Say that these clients are very picky and very educated and use specialized means of evaluating the likely source of the exact item they are after. Let's supposed some of these clients favor the tissue or whatever from young, female athletes.

If the Bigs and their hirlings in the distribution network keep showing up around the same small selection of victims, then it's worth looking into a little more.

It's not as good as finding DNA on indisputable murder weapon, but it might lead to something whorthwhile.

Even if it's not the best, most conventional way of doing it, considering what we (at least the public) have to work with, aren't the victims worth it? Don't the victims, their families, friends, and the state itself deserve whatever anyone can put on the table, especially after so many fruitless years of searching?

and, so, 2008 slides into 2009 with

"truth" pushing the CW/A-Frame theory.

The Internet allows one to "accuse" in the absence of confirmation by authorities.

WOW.

truth wrote:

<quoted text>
At this point I do not think anyone wants to eliminate any theory no matter how possible.

I believe this is a very incorrect assumption. There are theories that are clearly discussed more than others and accepted more than others even when the evidence doesn't add up. There are things circulating as "fact" that are likely false, and on and on...

truth wrote:

<quoted text>
First, where was she going? She had directions to several places in her car, right? If she WAS in the car at the time of the WB accident then could that help determine her route? Maybe Attitash?

If she was going anywhere outside of MASS, then it was likely somewhere in VT or NH, but other than that we don't know. We don't know if she even made the searches for directions on her computer, or the calls to the resorts; this could have been done by anyone. If she was going to VT or NH, then it looks like she was considering Burlington, Stowe, Bartlett, or if the location of the accident has any indication, Lincoln or Woodstock. But she may have been lost or may have made a wrong turn.

truth wrote:

<quoted text>
Lets say for a minute she was there (Even if eye witness reports are sketchy). There was a scent trail for about a hundred yards and then nothing...
What could that mean? Maybe she was picked up by a passerby. Perhaps a neighbor spoke to her and realized she did not want to involve the police and suggested they 'hideout' in the house. She grabs the alcohol and agrees... If so then which neighbor and which house?

A hideout theory is possible, and one of my personal favorites because it gives the most likelihood that she is still alive somewhere. If a smoker had come to her rescue and let her stay at his place, then he may have given her a ride later that night or the next morning to parts unknown. Its also possible that this person abducted and murdered her, so who knows? Does the CW smoke?

truth wrote:

<quoted text>SBD - knew she didn't want to involve police. He offered for her to come back and wait for help at his house. He backed his bus into his driveway (which was declared 'odd' behavior). Did she grab the booze and items from her car and walk down to his house? Was she hiding in the bus? The scent trail did end here.

Maybe he helped her hideout. I think CW is more likely candidate in this regard, but the SBD's sketchy statements seem to indicate that he was hiding something.

truth wrote:

<quoted text>CW - On route home from work in Franconia at almost same time of the accident. He originally said he saw nothing and then changed his story at a later time and said he might have seen her running down the road. He didn't allow his home to be searched.

Maybe because he was afraid they would find something, or maybe there is something else he didn't want them to find (drugs, guns) who knows? But I find it very likely in the event that Maura was with the Saturn at the WB that he saw the accident, went down to check it out, found an intoxicated girl that was afraid of being arrested for DUI, decides to help her out or pretend to help her out to abduct her, helps her to quickly grab her things from the trunk, stuff a rag into the tailpipe for some reason, and make a quick getaway all in a matter of seconds before LE arrive. Possible.

The A-frame is difficult to discuss as many people don't know much about it. I imagine if any of the tests on this carpet or knife were a positive match for Maura's DNA, that there would have been some kind of arrest by now, but not necessarily, especially in the event that LE is involved in covering up the true nature of the crime.

As far as anyone here knows or claims to know, the source of the call to her cellphone that pinged the Londonderry tower is unknown. Heck, it's even possible that it was a wrong number.

Here's a possible and very lucky example of finding something by looking from the top down. Say you've increasingly seen Mr. Big and Mr. Bigger (including their companies and employees) too frequently associated with the apparent abductions of a few women who share some kind of outstanding and generally desireable trait. Over the course of, say, two years, you grow convinced that the Bigs are very possibly involved, though probably not at the actual abduction level itself.

And then, with lots of luck and some skill, you find a chemical tank truck at a certain truck stop and identify a high speed connection within the truck (not coming from the truck stop itelf), the carrier for which is not only quite exclusive, but is known to be controlled by Mr. Big. And you notice that the chemical truck is owned by Mr. Big's boss and friend, so to speak, Mr. Bigger. And you notice that the location of this truck stop is potentially very relevant. And you also realize that this truck is a perfectly real and physical manifestation of your theory.

In other words, you developed, with other facts already known, a working hypothesis. And the tank truck fits right in. In a unique way, like nothing else could. The truck does not, by itself, confirm the reality of the theory, but it sure is one more important piece of circumstantial evidence.

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do check it out..:-)

Snowy White wrote:

and, so, 2008 slides into 2009 with
"truth" pushing the CW/A-Frame theory.
The Internet allows one to "accuse" in the absence of confirmation by authorities.
WOW.

Hi Snow White. Does CW/A-Frame == one theory or two?

I am not pushing any theory... yet. I do not know enough. However, I am interested in any theories you are pushing.
Who is the authority allowed to make accusations? Local LE? The local LE might have been in over their authoritative heads.

I must admit I am interested to find out more about the Amherst side of things.
For instance, I find it hard to believe not one person had any idea where Maura was going. Friends drinking late into the night and no information being exchanged on what might be troubling Maura.
Does anyone know why Maura was in such a rush to get back to her Dad's hotel to drop off his car? Did he need the car back because he had to head off to work early next day? Didn't they plan to purchase a 'new' car or were they just shopping? Or maybe she was in a rush to get ready for a trip up north?

So, just theoretically, what if the driver's employer and the chemical truck's owner, and the truck's ISP owner were all, more or less, the same person or family?

And what if that truck, or one just like it, regularly delivered to places very near where several victims, mostly athletes, were attacked?

And what if the same person or family also owned a large medical database of personal medical information?

And what if that same family was and still is heavily invested in stem cell and other kinds of regenerative tissue (like horseshoe crabs) research?

And what if he or they had an office right next to Kennedy?

And what if they also invested large amounts of money in a stem cell research company in central MA that was having such a hard time finding egg donors that they hired a mobile egg harvesting RV style vehicle to travel the roads of central and western MA looking for egg donors in the year 2000?

And what if two MA investigators, hired to investigate at least two disappearances, were on the payroll of this person or family or one of his or their chief business affiliates?

truth wrote:

<quoted text>
Does anyone know why Maura was in such a rush to get back to her Dad's hotel to drop off his car? Did he need the car back because he had to head off to work early next day? Didn't they plan to purchase a 'new' car or were they just shopping? Or maybe she was in a rush to get ready for a trip up north?

I believe it was reported that Fred thought Maura was afraid for her well-being. Perhaps she was in a rush to get back to Fred because she was afraid of someone. Perhaps someone was following her and ran her off the road.

truth wrote:

<quoted text>
Hi Snow White. Does CW/A-Frame == one theory or two?
I am not pushing any theory... yet. I do not know enough. However, I am interested in any theories you are pushing.
Who is the authority allowed to make accusations? Local LE? The local LE might have been in over their authoritative heads.
I must admit I am interested to find out more about the Amherst side of things.
For instance, I find it hard to believe not one person had any idea where Maura was going. Friends drinking late into the night and no information being exchanged on what might be troubling Maura.
Does anyone know why Maura was in such a rush to get back to her Dad's hotel to drop off his car? Did he need the car back because he had to head off to work early next day? Didn't they plan to purchase a 'new' car or were they just shopping? Or maybe she was in a rush to get ready for a trip up north?

truth ~

I do not feel qualified, as a layperson, to commit to a theory.
I would like to believe, though I may be very naive, that the ongoing, formal investigation is competent. I place trust there.

Many maybes, without any capacity here to verify facts. Frustrating.

Has the search for truth been pushed to its limits on the internet with consideration of the myriad of theories?
Or will this sleuthing agglomeration exist in this format indefinitely?

Is there benefit to accusations being informally made on the internet...or potential harm?
Should there be any concern about legal liability in making claims to someone's possible involvement in a 'crime'? Does using initials absolve one of such liability?

What if Maura's disappearance occurred solely in MA...and her car was transported to NH?
All of the speculation about people and places in NH might become a source of personal harm to innocent parties....and yet, the conversations persist, unabated.

These questions remain on my mind. They may seem vague...but they ring to my sense of discretion.

Maura may reappear.
Maura may never be found.
Maura's remains may, sadly, be found.

It seems no one can hurry the process.

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

mason con't from above
it is too complicated for me to imagine that the log timing is off...that would set the state and Haverhill up for major law suit...tampering with evidence, the whole lot would loose their jobs...
Smith notated on the accident report link posted on Maura Murray forum that he was notified at 1935, WOW what a mistake. This notation does not match the Grafton County Sherriff's 911 logs...
why did write in this time, or did he think the family/public would not get ahold of these logs...
bloody confusing!

It may be just like in a hospital, the time clock has one time, a clock on the wall another, everyone has a watch, they probably are not in sync and if a timepiece gains or loses time, well then, there you are.

Hart wrote:

So, just theoretically, what if the driver's employer and the chemical truck's owner, and the truck's ISP owner were all, more or less, the same person or family?
And what if that truck, or one just like it, regularly delivered to places very near where several victims, mostly athletes, were attacked?
And what if the same person or family also owned a large medical database of personal medical information?
And what if that same family was and still is heavily invested in stem cell and other kinds of regenerative tissue (like horseshoe crabs) research?
And what if he or they had an office right next to Kennedy?
And what if they also invested large amounts of money in a stem cell research company in central MA that was having such a hard time finding egg donors that they hired a mobile egg harvesting RV style vehicle to travel the roads of central and western MA looking for egg donors in the year 2000?
And what if two MA investigators, hired to investigate at least two disappearances, were on the payroll of this person or family or one of his or their chief business affiliates?

Hi Hart,

This is very interesting. I remember reading about this when I tried the impossible task of starting at thread #1.

Did you go by a different handle back then?

Do you have a message number where I can go and reread it? I am not having much luck with the search feature.

Lots of 'dots' there to connect.

Mason wrote:

2. We know the cooling fan was pushed back into the radiator and we know that the engine started when Fred Murray got it back from the cops at Lavoie's. My question is how far could the car have been driven with the radiator compromised by the fan? If the radiator leaked and the anti-freeze drained out, the engine would have overheated within a few miles even in winter and the metal would have melted destroying the engine.

This has been said a few times recently, and it did appear in some reports, but I don't think this can be confirmed as fact, can it?

5. Did anyone notice if the driver's seat was in the position that Maura would have placed it, if she were driving?

The only trouble with that is, someone would have had to notice before Lavoie's got there.....I'm not as tall as Maura, but you ever notice how tow truck drivers always have to move the seat back to do what they do??

6. What size does a deflated airbag have? Could the driver have been using it as a blanket and pulled it up to partially cover her face?

Fortunately I don't know the answer to this, because I've never seen one.

Snowy White wrote:

<quoted text>
truth ~
I do not feel qualified, as a layperson, to commit to a theory.
I would like to believe, though I may be very naive, that the ongoing, formal investigation is competent. I place trust there.
Many maybes, without any capacity here to verify facts. Frustrating.
Has the search for truth been pushed to its limits on the internet with consideration of the myriad of theories?
Or will this sleuthing agglomeration exist in this format indefinitely?
Is there benefit to accusations being informally made on the internet...or potential harm?
Should there be any concern about legal liability in making claims to someone's possible involvement in a 'crime'? Does using initials absolve one of such liability?
What if Maura's disappearance occurred solely in MA...and her car was transported to NH?
All of the speculation about people and places in NH might become a source of personal harm to innocent parties....and yet, the conversations persist, unabated.
These questions remain on my mind. They may seem vague...but they ring to my sense of discretion.
Maura may reappear.
Maura may never be found.
Maura's remains may, sadly, be found.
It seems no one can hurry the process.

SW - oops... initials ;)

I guess I am unqualified to say who is a layperson and who is not.
Some people I have grown up with have become police officers. Despite their professional training I would hesitate to give them all of my trust in a formal investigation. Especially if someone close to me suddenly disappeared. I am not sure why... maybe they are biased, or maybe they are overloaded with work, or maybe they are not good at their job.

I am sorry if it seems like I was accusing anyone. I am simply reading the available material and asking questions. Is doing this on the internet any different than doing it at a coffee shop?

George Washington wrote:

<quoted text>
What keeps coming back no matter how many times you throw it away?

Alden's many personalities....?

hi all ,I and many others could give you a list of people that know where Maura worked at the mystery gallery.First on the list would be her friends that worked with her at the gallery,her boss knows, her bosses payroll people know whether private or through umass. her bank knows. the computer at her job knows.The people that know she had a paycheck coming know.the list is quite long and includes her family ,but for some reason it is a secret.The directions to Burlington V.T. were reportedly found in the saturn.When were they written Maura and her mrMurray hiked up camels hump in V.T. on columbus day weekend before she vanished .Was that a left over from that trip.Was Maura in the habit of using index cards.were any found in her room at Kennedy Hall. she reportedly made 5 yes 5 phone calls before she vanished with which she spoke to nobody.Someone asked why would she need directions to Burlington V.T.if she had been there on the prior columbus day weekend with mr Murray.For some reason we have been directed away from Amherst and Mauras prior life by the now closed forum.I have to ask again where and who the information for that forum came from regarding Amherst.It was 'deemed not important' .How can Mauras life up to the point where she was last seen and maybe lived be 'deemed not important'.Take care philip

truth wrote:

<quoted text>
SW - oops... initials ;)
I guess I am unqualified to say who is a layperson and who is not.
Some people I have grown up with have become police officers. Despite their professional training I would hesitate to give them all of my trust in a formal investigation. Especially if someone close to me suddenly disappeared. I am not sure why... maybe they are biased, or maybe they are overloaded with work, or maybe they are not good at their job.
I am sorry if it seems like I was accusing anyone. I am simply reading the available material and asking questions. Is doing this on the internet any different than doing it at a coffee shop?

I respect your position with regard to the trust factor.

The internet record of a conversation is indelible...and so perhaps that is a distinction...but I appreciate your responding to my concerns.

I am re-posting a quote by Dennis Miller:

“Human beings are human beings. They say what they want, don't they? They used to say it across the fence while they were hanging wash. Now they just say it on the Internet.”

Hi all,we don't know why Maura was going to speak with mr Murray on sunday a.m. Maybe she was returning the toyota that he had intended to or had given her and was saying no thanks .Where was and what condition was the saturn in at this time.The only thing that is known is Mauras fathers car was found in N.H.I hope that someone that actually had been in Mauras room in Kennedy Hall before she vanished has the courage to come forward and speak to somebody that can end this.Take care philip

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

<quoted text>
Mason:
All the newspapers and reports initially stated that the accident occured at 7p.m. Smith himself stated in the press, he was called to the accident between 7-7:30 pm., how this mistake happened and why is anyone's guess...
I think it is possible that Smith could have been looking for someone off the road, without it going through the police logs. For example, someone could have called the police station and spoke directly to Smith and said there is a car off the road on Swiftwater/Goose Lane.. simple...
Do we know where Smith was at 7 p.m. If someone did not call dispatch there would be no log at all.
I asked and don't know could someone have radioed Smith without going through dispatch, hamm or cb radio? Haven't a clue, but a thought....
Also, Smith could have been at the local donut shoppe or garage and someone told him that a car was off the road...
The 7 p.m. mistake was pepetuated for some time...
how this happened wow, I don't know, why police did not correct this immediately surprized me, because if your looking for witnesses a half hour makes a heck of a distance....
I feel that the dispatch is not the only source for being notified of an incident on the road...
Many people are intimidated by 911, and also if you know a person on the force, you are more than likely to call them directly.
after hearing Anne's report of a previous accident and the incorrect timing, I thought perhaps the police left it open so as not to come back to bite them when a previous accident or car off the road was made public...

Peri,
I can't recall where I saw a page of the dispatch log, but I do remember reading an entry that placed Sgt Smith at 6:30 pm on Petticoat Lane, which intersects Rte 116, the Dartmouth Highway, in the North Haverhill area. The Petticoat Lane intersection is 3.2 miles from Cottage Hospital.
Cottage Hospital is on Swiftwater Road in Woodsville. Given that the hospital employee said he passed her on Goose Lane with his emergency lights on headed toward Rte 112 at approximate 7:10 pm, it looks like Smith drove north on Rte 116 into Woodsville and turned right on Swiftwater Road. He must have been dispatched to investigate the Saturn accident after he cleared the Petticoat Lane call. We can't be certain exactly where he was when he was dispatched to investigate the Saturn accident, but North Haverhill is 0.7 miles south of Petticoat Lane. We can guesstimate he was somewhere between Petticoat Lane and North Haverhill when he was dispatched, or between 3.2 and 3.9 miles from Cottage Hospital. If he was dispatched at 7 pm, this would match-up pretty closely to him passing the hospital employee on Goose Lane approximately 10 minutes later.

Continued

Note that the so-called first Saturn accident was on Swiftwater Road. If so, both Smith and the hospital employee would have driven right by it, but neither of them mentioned seeing it, or an abandoned vehicle in the ditch next to the road in the information available to us.
Smith apparently reached Rte 112 by turning left on Cemetery Road, or he continued on Goose Lane and turned left on Rte 112 and headed W/B. At some point he realized that he had to go E/B on Rte 112. We don't know if this realization was due to receiving a new dispatch to the so-called second Saturn accident past the Weathered Barn, or to him having decided that he should have headed E/B on Rte 112.
Whether due to a new dispatch order or his realization that he had to go east on Rte 112, Smith was seen heading E/B on Rte 112 by the hospital employee when she reached the Goose Lane intersection with Rte 112 and he passed right in front of her. I think we can safely conclude from these facts that Smith did not venture very far, if all, west on Rte 112 beyond the Cemetery Road intersection.
I believe he turned left onto Cemetery Road from Goose Lane and realized that he should have continued on Goose Lane to Rte 112 because the accident was east of there on Rte 112. Instead of turning around, he continued down Cemetery Road to Rte 112 and turned right, or E/B on Rte 112. This little detour cost him just enough time that the hospital employee caught-up to him when he reached the Goose Lane intersection. That is, he reached the intersection a few seconds before she did with him driving E/B on Rte 112. She then turned right on Rte 112 and followed him on down to the accident, which was just a mile down the road.
There wasn't enough time for Smith to have driven W/B on Rte 112 to the Rte 302 intersection (about 2.5 miles) looking for another accident and, upon not finding it, turning around and heading E/B on Rte in time to reach the Goose Lane intersection just before the hospital employee reached it.
This is another reason why I believe Smith was not dispatched to investigate two accidents.