Where is MAURA MURRAY

I put myself in the shoes of Maura Murray that night and try to parallel exactly what I would do if I were in her shoes. Evidence at the scene does not factually prove she was drinking, but there are indicators that someone in the car was drinking. Since that's an undisputed, tangible piece of evidence, for this particular scenario, I'm assuming Maura was drinking (which ostensibly makes perfect sense).

I'm Maura Murray.

I just got into an accident in the middle of no where (while on my way somewhere).

I've been drinking.

If the police come right now, they'll smell the alcohol, see the (possibly open) liquor in the car and I'll probably be arrested, charged with a DUI and placed in jail. I'll have to call my family to get bailed out, which might cost thousands of dollars.

It is colder than a freezer outside. I want to get away from this car and this accident as soon as possible - the longer I'm here, the greater the chances are that someone comes by calls the police, and therefore the greater the chances are that I get a DUI.

My best bet is to avoid the police altogether by calling Triple A directly, and having them tow my car and myself somewhere, to a nearby motel or body shop. This way, the police won't ever know about my car or that I was driving drunk.

I'm starting to panic.

Another good bet is if someone or some people, who look and seem like trustworthy, decent people, happen to drive by and I feel comfortable getting into their car, and then hanging out and socializing with them for a few hours. I'll bringing my belongings (and alcohol) along with me. I'll let the cops impound the car, make up a story and pick it up later that night after I sober up.

Going to a nearby house and knocking on the door wouldn't be good for me. Firstly, the cops will be here sooner or later, and they might see me walking away from the scene of the accident and realize that I'm the driver. Then they question me, arrest me and I get a DUI. Especially if I was walking to the neighbors house with my belongings (and liquor). Plus, what are the chances that the neighbor is going to let me hideout at their house so that I avoid talking to the cops? The point is to not get a DUI. I'm drunk, and I just got into an accident. I don't think some random people are just going to let me hang out at their house while the cops search for the driver of the car that got into an accident. So if I go to a neighbors house, I'm probably going to have to see the cops anyway.

I don't need to call the cops, and I don't want to call any family or friends, and I especially don't want to have to call my family from jail. I'll have to explain to them where when and why I made this trip.

Obviously, there are a variety of different theories in addition to what I listed, and there are plenty of other details you can add, but I think Maura experienced something similar to that. Again, we're all entitled to our own opinions, but I tend to lean towards the abduction theory.

It is very possible, and it would also make much more sense, that there was someone around that had been following her and someone caused her to crash and then waited for the opportune moment to grab her. Perhaps they didn't grab her, but approached her amiably, asking her if she wanted to party. She trusted them, which is why she brought all of her belongings along with her thinking she'd be back soon.

And do you know who would EASILY be the most trustworthy people for her to have chosen? A COUPLE. A couple that was driving. A man and a woman. When you see a man and a woman, things feel much more trusting, especially if they both seem normal at first. A couple could have been following her, planning things out and then made the move.

There's also plenty of feasible scenarios, including the red truck consisting of one or more people that Maura may or may not have been familiar abducting her.

Ask several 21-year-old college girls what they would do under those exact elements. Give them ALL of the known details and circumstances, and have them project themselves in her situation, and ask them what their thought process would be.

Hello all,

According to the publicly known information the tracker dog(s) lost Maura´s scent at the corner of Rte 112 and Bradley Hill Road, just a few steps from where Maura´s Saturn was found.

Wouldn´t it then seem rather likely that:
1. Maura was the driver of the Saturn.
2. She got into a passing car at the point where her scent was lost by the dog(s).

Hi Citigirl the saturn was registered to mr Murray so i assume he was the owner.Was Mauras name on the title.How soon after Maura vanished did mrMurray sell the toyota or does he still have it.I don't remember seeing it in any video.take care philip

Eurobserver wrote:

Hello all,
According to the publicly known information the tracker dog(s) lost Maura´s scent at the corner of Rte 112 and Bradley Hill Road, just a few steps from where Maura´s Saturn was found.
Wouldn´t it then seem rather likely that:
1. Maura was the driver of the Saturn.
2. She got into a passing car at the point where her scent was lost by the dog(s).

I believe that the scent would have had enough time to deteriorate over two days. She could have walked further. Also, it wasn't known if she actually wore the gloves. It appears that many Christmas gifts were found in her car, and we don't even know if she ever removed them from her car after the holidays. The gloves may have just been sitting in her car over a period of time. It seems that once she left her car that she would have taken at least one pair of gloves with her, but we don't know for sure. It's possible that she didn't even wear the gloves found in her car, in which case the dogs wouldn't have a proper scent to go on. Also, why did Fred Murray choose the gloves as the scent object? There was a stuffed animal that many think would have provided a better scent object. I don't know about the gloves, what their significance is, or the significance of a deteriorating scent trail, but one has to think that if Maura wore the gloves, and her scent was the dominant scent on the gloves, that she was probably the person driving the Saturn. But if the gloves were in the car, and someone else used them while staging an accident (maybe to avoid fingerprints), took them off, left them in the car, and caught a ride in a POV, this would also explain the scent trail. Or, if the gloves were just sitting in the car, someone who staged the accident will also pick up some of Maura's scent by just sitting in the car. Therefore, the person would carry Maura's scent for maybe a short distance, the same scent that is on the gloves. If the dogs were following a secondary scent, taking into consideration with the passing time (two days), would explain why the scent had deteriorated. I don't think the scent from the gloves is enough to conclude that Maura was in the car at the WB.

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree if he took 112 home from Franconia he should have seen the lights but he also may have come home 116 to BH which is a better way to go in the winter. If he was outside he should have seen something but in the house I doubt very much he could have seen anything.
If the SBD was on the bus doing paperwork he must have had a good light on to see. I highly doubt he would be able to see much outside in the dark with the reflection of the lights either on the bus or on his porch.
Now if he was sitting in the dark and peering out the window I might agree that he could have seen something but that's not the case.
Try it in your own home.

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree if he took 112 home from Franconia he should have seen the lights but he also may have come home 116 to BH which is a better way to go in the winter. If he was outside he should have seen something but in the house I doubt very much he could have seen anything.
If the SBD was on the bus doing paperwork he must have had a good light on to see. I highly doubt he would be able to see much outside in the dark with the reflection of the lights either on the bus or on his porch.
Now if he was sitting in the dark and peering out the window I might agree that he could have seen something but that's not the case.
Try it in your own home.

I agree with you totally, with lights inside a vehicle on or in a house, it is rather impossible to see clearly, much easier to see with lights off.

There is a tad bit of discrepency in this statement, such as WW says the light was not working on the outside, light out. Which would allow for greater visibility. Secondly, the Marrott's or Westman's (not possible of the author of the statement) stated that the SBD went directly to his bus and stayed there a long time.

The SBD's statement differs.

Also, if he has a small auxillary light in his bus
15-25 watt, this would allow greater vision than having the entire lights on inside the bus.

By the SBD statement to the press, he states that he made the phone call from the porch, and when he went to his bus the police had already arrived, and Maura was already gone by this time..
Therefore if this statement is true he would have had a clear view of this driveway, and he could see clearly enough to know the police had arrived.\
It would be interesting to note, it the Westman's and the Marrott's had their inside lights off, and how many Westman's were watching, as there was one child and wife, husband and wife and Father, we have heard no statements if anyone other than the T and F Westman were watching. The Father who has since passed away about a year after, seems he had something to say, although I do not remember and it was not in the press.

The CW, what way he took home, I have never heard quoted. Still even if he entered from 116, which looks to me a more precarious route (but have to defer to the locals as the most likely route.) the flashing lights most likely were still visible through the woods as it is very very dark there.

However as previously discussed on MMM forum, I thought that the CW saw the youth near the Whicheverville Road, if so he was on the 112.

And he did state that he saw the youth 4-5 miles on the 112, am I in error as to whether or not he saw the Youth near Whicheverville?

Thanks

above post, correction: lights out by SBD house, outside street light...

There are many theories. The one thing that stands out to me is the little amount of time between the call to the LE and her disappearance. The short amount of time to me would state:

She knew the person that picked her up.
She felt somewhat safe with whoever pulled up to help.(Her judgment of ‘safe’ might have been altered by her chance of getting in trouble.)(Maybe a young couple, teenagers.. etc)

Or she wasn’t in the car. I have read that the SBD did state that he didn’t think the girl in the car looked like Maura, after seeing a picture of her. Is that a true statement? If so then the most important facts are ‘where, what, when, and who’ leading up to the mysterious accident/disappearance.

The short amount of time between someone seeing her and her disappearing is minutes apart. She was an athlete and not far from the SBD that was sitting in his school bus.(A scream could have been heard from him or the other neighbors that had ‘heard’ the crash and car acceleration.)

The most important thing here is to not give up. Keep asking questions. I cannot believe it has been five years and nothing has been found. Not a clue, the black backpack, nothing.

Peri I have no idea where Whicheverville is. CW took 116 on his way home from Franconia. He then took a right onto 112. He went appoximately 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile and then turned left onto 116 again (this is the area 112/116 he saw the youth) which turns into Bradley Hill at the fork in road.(If he went that way which I have no way of positively knowing.)
I don't see how an outside light out by SBD's would allow greater visibility. Wouldn't that make it even harder to see in total darkness?
These are just my opinions. I wonder though how it is helpful to go over these same people over and over again when they have been gone over with a microscope for almost 5 years with no answers or results. Common sense tells me that no answers to finding out what happened will be found by going over these same people again and again.
Now before I get accused of trying to take this in another direction I will state again this is only my opinion.
If anyone want to keep kicking a dead horse by all means keep on if you think it will help.

Wowzer maybe you are right. So who else? Well I think there is something major that one of her friends knows but isnt saying. The friend who said something along the lines of "I would say more but I dont want to get her in trouble"...Thats huge IMO! I think that person has a real good idea of why maura was heading north. Someone needs to question that person again considering "getting her in trouble" isnt so damning anymore.

Well that makes a person wonder also. You would think that 'getting her in trouble' wouldn't be an issue after years of not knowing where she is. Unless she is still alive. I know that's a stretch but there is always a little hope.

I do not believe it was working.
The new owners had it removed.

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

above post, correction: lights out by SBD house, outside street light...

I believe SBD couldn't get through the first time
and gave the girlfriend/ex wife the phone who called it into 911 and was transferred to Grafton.

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I agree with you totally, with lights inside a vehicle on or in a house, it is rather impossible to see clearly, much easier to see with lights off.
There is a tad bit of discrepency in this statement, such as WW says the light was not working on the outside, light out. Which would allow for greater visibility. Secondly, the Marrott's or Westman's (not possible of the author of the statement) stated that the SBD went directly to his bus and stayed there a long time.
The SBD's statement differs.
Also, if he has a small auxillary light in his bus
15-25 watt, this would allow greater vision than having the entire lights on inside the bus.
By the SBD statement to the press, he states that he made the phone call from the porch, and when he went to his bus the police had already arrived, and Maura was already gone by this time..
Therefore if this statement is true he would have had a clear view of this driveway, and he could see clearly enough to know the police had arrived.\
It would be interesting to note, it the Westman's and the Marrott's had their inside lights off, and how many Westman's were watching, as there was one child and wife, husband and wife and Father, we have heard no statements if anyone other than the T and F Westman were watching. The Father who has since passed away about a year after, seems he had something to say, although I do not remember and it was not in the press.
The CW, what way he took home, I have never heard quoted. Still even if he entered from 116, which looks to me a more precarious route (but have to defer to the locals as the most likely route.) the flashing lights most likely were still visible through the woods as it is very very dark there.
However as previously discussed on MMM forum, I thought that the CW saw the youth near the Whicheverville Road, if so he was on the 112.
And he did state that he saw the youth 4-5 miles on the 112, am I in error as to whether or not he saw the Youth near Whicheverville?
Thanks

Because I am from this area I don't want to be accused of trying to take this in another direction so I will say that it is only my thoughts and opinions.
I do not think anyone in this area had anything to do with her disappearance. I'm also sure if anyone could have predicted what would happen they would have paid better attention that night but a car going into a snowbank up here was common and no big deal.
RT 112 is the route taken if one gets off the Interstate in Wells River to Loon Mountain in Lincoln. Many out of staters travel this route in the winter. Does this have anything to do with her disappearance? I have no idea.
I do think that whatever made her leave her school, family and friends and travel up here at night without telling anyone that she was close to and knew would worry about her in an unreliable car holds many answers.Someone knows why she was so upset that she would chance losing everything to get away. I doubt we will ever know for sure who made that upsetting call to her but I do believe much of the mystery lies in that call.
JMHO

If Butch was on the bus and Barbara was making the call the statements would all be different
and piece milling them together is going to have
gaps.

From my experience out there I believe it would have been impossible for Butch to see the accident
the way JM told the PI's the bus was parked.
Also if Butch was doing paper work what would have
been on in the bus? A light right?
It so dark out there you can't see your hand in front of your face. FW has stated they saw shadows
and that was only because the light of the car.
They had no clue if it was male or female. They
could see movement so they figured they would
come to the house to use the phone.

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I agree with you totally, with lights inside a vehicle on or in a house, it is rather impossible to see clearly, much easier to see with lights off.
There is a tad bit of discrepency in this statement, such as WW says the light was not working on the outside, light out. Which would allow for greater visibility. Secondly, the Marrott's or Westman's (not possible of the author of the statement) stated that the SBD went directly to his bus and stayed there a long time.
The SBD's statement differs.
Also, if he has a small auxillary light in his bus
15-25 watt, this would allow greater vision than having the entire lights on inside the bus.
By the SBD statement to the press, he states that he made the phone call from the porch, and when he went to his bus the police had already arrived, and Maura was already gone by this time..
Therefore if this statement is true he would have had a clear view of this driveway, and he could see clearly enough to know the police had arrived.\
It would be interesting to note, it the Westman's and the Marrott's had their inside lights off, and how many Westman's were watching, as there was one child and wife, husband and wife and Father, we have heard no statements if anyone other than the T and F Westman were watching. The Father who has since passed away about a year after, seems he had something to say, although I do not remember and it was not in the press.
The CW, what way he took home, I have never heard quoted. Still even if he entered from 116, which looks to me a more precarious route (but have to defer to the locals as the most likely route.) the flashing lights most likely were still visible through the woods as it is very very dark there.
However as previously discussed on MMM forum, I thought that the CW saw the youth near the Whicheverville Road, if so he was on the 112.
And he did state that he saw the youth 4-5 miles on the 112, am I in error as to whether or not he saw the Youth near Whicheverville?
Thanks

I know it's reaching but if it was like a freezer outside why was the Bus Driver doing his paperwork on the bus? Was the bus running for heat? I know the SBD moved to Florida. He has helped with the investigation. But I also read he was sort of annoyed with the questions and allegations towards him because he is believed to be the last person that saw her. Just kind of putting my two cents out there. The FBI, PI and FM need to really investigate the minutes, hours, days and weeks leading up the accident.

Curious wrote:

I know it's reaching but if it was like a freezer outside why was the Bus Driver doing his paperwork on the bus? Was the bus running for heat? I know the SBD moved to Florida. He has helped with the investigation. But I also read he was sort of annoyed with the questions and allegations towards him because he is believed to be the last person that saw her. Just kind of putting my two cents out there. The FBI, PI and FM need to really investigate the minutes, hours, days and weeks leading up the accident.

I wonder..... if you had stopped to help someone and they refused your help and then disappeared and you were questioned by the LE, then the family and then the PI's and then strangers, had your place searched and on top of all that you are accused on the internet with your name put out for everyone to see as having something to do with her disappearance and then chased down to your new retirement home in another state to be questioned by PI's even further when you have already told them all that you know wouldn't you be just a tad annoyed too????

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
I wonder..... if you had stopped to help someone and they refused your help and then disappeared and you were questioned by the LE, then the family and then the PI's and then strangers, had your place searched and on top of all that you are accused on the internet with your name put out for everyone to see as having something to do with her disappearance and then chased down to your new retirement home in another state to be questioned by PI's even further when you have already told them all that you know wouldn't you be just a tad annoyed too????

True but more so I would regret changing my story, making myself seem suspicious.

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
I wonder..... if you had stopped to help someone and they refused your help and then disappeared and you were questioned by the LE, then the family and then the PI's and then strangers, had your place searched and on top of all that you are accused on the internet with your name put out for everyone to see as having something to do with her disappearance and then chased down to your new retirement home in another state to be questioned by PI's even further when you have already told them all that you know wouldn't you be just a tad annoyed too????

I'm happy to answer.
Yes.
Amen

Since this forum isn't about me I will answer with a quick response and say 'Yes'. That post wasn't meant to point the finger. Just noting. I think at this point any suggestions or observations could be helpful and I thought was welcome. I only have the best intentions in mind. I apologize to those that might have taken my previous posts as troublesome.

If the bus was running for heat then the SBD's capability of hearing would be limited. Just a thought.

I also came across a while ago regarding a knife given to FM. The person who had given that knife had made a comment that he thought his brother and his girlfriend had something to do with it. FM had mailed this to NHSP after they refused to take it. Was this a dead end lead?