Where is MAURA MURRAY

Did RO use the term "cord wood" or "fire wood" to describe the kind of truck seen near the store?

quija wrote:

WTF,
What you said earlier seemed "right on" in the sense that maybe Maura was sending out signals for help!(hysterical crying, car accidents) In real life she seemed to reject help --- from her peers after the Saturday night party that included alcohol for some, advising her to just go back to her dorm; from SBD to come on over to his well-lit house with wife and mom to stay warm (if it was her and.... we do not have that as a FACT --- altho IMO it's likely).
I had been hammering away here at the possibility Maura might be found in nearby very dense brush --- within a mile, under the conditions. Wonder if the densest brush was ever searched? I'm sure I mentioned (at least a few times, sorry), that the toughest places to search oughta be searched if they haven't. Same with places like the concave areas created when a tree falls and pulls up its roots. Still wonder if the places that were searched (no FACTS on the searches) were searched with an eye to specific scenarios -- where she would seek shelter or be left by a perp that's accessible to a vehicle. I'd hope she's alive and in a cult, commune, or place like that, but it's not too late for more intensive investigations into many of the ideas here. If Maura was hurt in a crash, if she suffered TBI, there are memory, judgement, emotional, and a zillion other effects that last for YEARS. Point: wish we knew what areas were searched and how far off-trail they searched.

I was actually thinking about those comments for much of today, about the dense underbrush and--correct me if I'm mistaken--someone said it's off a steep embankment?

I'm given to understand that search areas are not made public so as not to aid any potential perps who might have access to the information....I can understand and respect that, but I also understand and respect the frustration. Wish we could know.

Another thought about the steep incline, if I'm not misremembering that, is that if it's dark, and Maura's moving quickly to get away from someone or some situation, and she's not familiar with the terrain, she might have fallen and ended up there. But I'll have to leave the rest of that discussion for someone with much better knowledge of the area of which you speak, Q.

BeagleBart wrote:

The officer on scene may have honestly believed the car hit a tree, but I have never seen a trailer hitch welded to the bottom of a rootless tree hovering about a foot and half above the ground. The importance of this dent cannot be overstated.

Pwah! Well spoken, Beagle.(And I apologize for the horrendously unfortunate typo I made on your name earlier. Ooooops.)

just me wrote:

<quoted text>Also, CS most likely touched the gloves himself as he looked over the contents of the car. When he walked up the road, his scent would be caught by the dogs too. So I'm a bit suspicious that the confused dogs may have been following Smiths scent as he went to talk to Mr. Atwood that night.
I have to tell everyone that I never was banned from MMM site as in "don't come back". I'm just me and it was a misunderstanding on my part with accessing links. I hate myself and I'm just gonna go rot somewhere else because I'm having a pity party and noone is invited. I just can't do this any more. We all say things when we're scared and hurt and it's too hard for me to see things that resemble gossip. I'm crying and you can all laugh at me now and take off any kidd gloves you might have worn for me

Just me--do you have my email address? If not, Helena does, as does Frank (and a few others you might suspect.....ask around, you'll find it) I'd like to keep in touch, but can understand how right now this might be a difficult scenario for you to deal with.

Glad you weren't banned; I was surprised and upset when I read that. Not glad, of course, that there was a misunderstanding, but glad that we'll always have Paris. So to speak. You were missed, more than you might think.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Pwah! Well spoken, Beagle.(And I apologize for the horrendously unfortunate typo I made on your name earlier. Ooooops.)

Thanks, no apology necessary.

I have cut and pasted below RO's description of the truck and her experience that night:

I wish I could give an exact description of the truck but I can not. I was walking that night about 7 p.m to the local store. As I was walking up the hill, a truck passed me and slowed down. When it got to the middle of the hill it stopped in the road. I immediately looked at the plate and noticed it was from Massachusetts. There is only 1 street light there and I could not tell how many people were in the vehicle. As I got closer to the truck it took off up the hill. When I rounded the corner to the store, I could see the truck in the driveway of the store. As I walked into the parking lot, which is well lit, the truck took off toward the crash site,(of course at that time I did not know there was a crash).

As for the red truck, it slowed, then stopped and waited for me to get closer, then took off up the hill. He did not leave the store parking lot in any sort of hurry.

When I entered the store I asked if she saw the people in that truck and she said no, no one had come in. I told her about them stopping in the hill. Then we just forgot about it. I stood in the store a while and was there when the police and ambulance went by. I never saw that truck again. The only way I can describe it is that it looked like someone who delivered wood. That was my first thought about it........red, MA plates and delivered wood. Either having a wood body or even just slats in the body. It was not a king cab or extra cab. Just a regular truck. That is all I can tell you.

I was in the Swiftwater store for 1/2 hour - 45 minutes. It was about 20-30 minutes after I was there that the police went by. I am not at all Maura's size and in fact I was bundled up that night. I believe I caught the truck off guard as I was walking well off the road and as they passed I walked back on, which is why I believe they stopped completely. They could not see me without any street lights and maybe went to the store and waited for me to get up there to get a better look??? I don't know. That is just how it seemed to me.

The truck didn't scare me. My thought is that they/he/she thought I was someone else. That is what I was thinking that night. When I saw them sitting at the store, I again thought, they really think I am someone else. And as I got closer and I could see the driver moving around - I was thinking, there, I am not the person you are looking for, and he drove off. I wish to God I could remember what I was wearing that night, but I can't.

Someone asked about the truck and whether it was 4 wheel drive. I believe it was. I have been looking at trucks and have determined that it was definitely a four wheel drive or at least it was a 3/4 ton pick up, because it sat up high. The other thing I remember is that the window in the back was hard to see in....it wasn't very large.....which tells me it was an older truck maybe???

Does the Ammonoosuc have a pretty good current during February or not so much? Could it conceivably sweep someone all the way to the Connecticut River? Any dams or falls between the crash scene and the Connecticut? Thanks.

Lady Gray wrote:

I have cut and pasted below RO's description of the truck and her experience that night:

Thank you very much.

BeagleBart wrote:

Does the Ammonoosuc have a pretty good current during February or not so much? Could it conceivably sweep someone all the way to the Connecticut River? Any dams or falls between the crash scene and the Connecticut? Thanks.

The times I have seen it I wasn't impressed with its flow. Don't know how much flow there is in Feb but it would not surprise me to find out that it freezes pretty much completely. I can't verify that though.

J

Just checking to see if registration is in order.

I was under the impression that Vasi was almost killed.

He would have had to have bionic body parts to have caused that damage to the Saturn. Human bones are just calcium.

Traveled the road often. Know it like the back of my hand. They don't plow around trees. The snowbanks pile up in front of the trees. There were high snowbanks in Feb 2004. My memory has faded a bit though and I can't remember if there is a plowed area just by the trees.

To my knowledge it did not jump a snowbank.

Then the Saturn could not have hit the trees.

The road has a ditch in the movie that was
made that wasn't there when the accident happened.

Never watched the movie

I guess when the records are released we can
all compare the tire tracks to those on car
but thinking the NHSP did giving the nature of
this case.

The records remain sealed per the courts. NHSP did not view the scene and view tire marks. Did the passer-by SP officer contribute to investigating the scene? There is no report. No witness stating such. Smith did the report as he was responding officer and the only officer securing the scene. How long after the accident did SP get involved?

You are entitled you thoughts as are those who
know what they have seen with their own eyes in
this case!
Okay thanks
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but you have stated things that show me you have heard a lot of hearsay, but you spout things as if you were there. You were not. Thank you for your hearsay, but some of what you say makes no sense from the known facts. I'm here to sift through the statements and throw those statements against the wall to see who's talking out of their rear. We're all here to sift through facts. Sometimes hearsay helps, but when it is stated as fact is does not help.

FYI, The river does not flow much in Feb. It is shallow in most spots until spring thaw from the mountains. We used to make bets on spring thaw dates. Never saw it early February to my recollection. There are a few deep pools, but many people snorkle for fun in those. Most is rocky/shallow. Many people fish there, so she would have been found if that's what you're wondering. That's the best trout fishing in the area. From the accident site west, the shores of the river are highly traveled

Just Me, you have a good mind and a kind heart. I am envious of your memory for all the information that has been written these many
years. I know that you and Silky discussed and compared notes in your honest quest of information to help find Maura. I don't know
what/who hurt you but, do not let the evil tentacles invade your good conscience. You don't need "mind control".
Meaning of Critical. "Inclined to find fault or to judge with severity, often too readily. Don't apologize for being you!

Jefferson...yes ..very rocky and frozen in Feb.

Watching wrote:

I was under the impression that Vasi was almost killed.
He would have had to have bionic body parts to have caused that damage to the Saturn. Human bones are just calcium.

True, Vasi was almost killed. He was in a coma for 1-3 weeks, according to news reports.

Hypothetically... Vasi's leg leaves a small dent in the Saturn. Then someone deliberately backs a trailer hitch into the same small dent made by Vasi's leg. This changes the shape and size of the first dent, thus concealing any sign that the Saturn hit Vasi.

Vasi's injuries could have just as easily come from hitting the pavement as from being hit a glancing blow by a vehicle.

Again hypothetically, if that vehicle by chance was the Saturn, after striking Vasi the Saturn could have swerved into a parked truck with a trailer hitch on the back, thus confusing whatever damage to the Saturn there might have been from contact with Vasi.

BUT, based on information given about the Saturn's condition after it wound up on Rt. 112, apparently the headlights were badly enough out of line that it would have been difficult to drive any distance with decent visibility. That alone would suggest that the front end damage did not occur in Amherst, or that if it did, the damage that pushed the headlights out of line had to have occurred later on and much closer to the vicinity of the curve on Rt. 112 where the Saturn came to rest.

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
How would this have been staged? How did they make [b]arrangements[/b] with Maura. By mail, email, phone, all in person? How did they make these [b]arrangements[/b] with her without leaving a trace?
Bill

Maybe the phone call received that resulted in being so upset originated from someone associated with the red truck with Mass plates? Little is known about Maura's life at UMass Amherst--it doesn't appear that she was sharing much information with her friends about what was going on in her life. I've contacted one of her friends that was mentioned in media articles, and although they communicated in an ongoing manner, she rarely mentioned any Amherst friends or activities.

pike wrote:

A friend has said that the area where Maura disappeared was so built up it was doubtful in the extreme that anybody-no matter how demented-would have risked taking her against her will. My friend also wrote of a river which would have been a good place to hide out. What do you think about all this? Thanks!
<quoted text>

Hiding out in a frozen river in Feb., I would think it might be quite cold for a person to hide out in a river unless they were hiding out after they were dead.
The river that runs nearby doesn't flood in Feb. like some individuals asked, the rivers flood in the spring of the year around March and April when the snow is melting fast off the mountains.
As far as a trailor hitch comming in contact with Maura's car that could have happened if she came in contact with the red truck from Mass. that was seen in the area on the same day as the accident or accidents. There were multible accidents called into dispatch that night on Feb. 9th and when the Police got to the sites there was no accident untill they got to the MMM site where Sgt. Smith found Maura's Automobile in those tree's!
As far as someone going into the woods they would have left footprints in the snow unless they ran and leaped over a steep bank!
If Maura was killed by that jacknife they wouldn't have done that in a house unless they did it in a bathtub where they could wash the blood up!
I don't know if there is a connection between Maura's disappearance and Tom's death and all the fires up in the Mountain Lakes area but I know one thing alot of crime happened in 2004 and 2005 in that area and some of the crime that happened could have been to cover up more serious crimes commited by the ring of criminals.
Tom used a cabin on the back side of Lake Tarleton in Piermont but that camp was burned sometime around 2003 but I do not know the exact date.

Re: Vasi
Does anyone know if after leaving the hospital if he remembered anything about how he was hurt? Was he walking alone? Was he with any friends and fooling around such as car surfing that has been mentioned in comments?

Just Me,

I've thought about the '88' case you mentioned a number of times over the past two decades. It happened in my hometown, I was just twenty years old, and my family knew of the victim's family from Mass. I had no knowledge of the specific details of the case and through rumor-hearsay I heard it had been solved!

Boy that could have been further from the truth.

Again, thanks so much for posting what you did. Being a 1000 miles away all of these years it is heartening to know that someone I've shared a common ground with the majority of my life is as bothered by these cases as I've been.

I'd also like to thank the young woman who came forward with her terrible ordeal on 302 with Lovie a.k.a. Bear.

It was great to hear that you went to the Chief of Police. You are doing the right thing and hopefully aiding in solving some cold cases as well as preventing it from happening to someone else, hooray for you.

P.S. Shack & Paris, Silky knew the both of you the best and loved you very much. That's all the validation you'll ever need!

Just a thought.
What if it was not Maura in the car but another woman (and maybe a man-smoking cigarette as reported) and SBD knew these people and they went into school bus,(the reason SBD backed way into driveway which was not his normal routine) and then got into his vechicle and waited for CS to show up and when SBD went looking for Maura, dropped them off somewhere.