Where is MAURA MURRAY

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
Speaking for myself and no one else I wonder how he came to the conclusion that it definitely wasn't Maura. He may say it wasn't but why doesn't he say how he came to the conclusion?
Did he go to the church and talk to them, did he see a picture, did he talk to the man that saw her?
I think there would be so fewer questions if statements weren't thrown out as facts with nothing to explain how they became a fact.JMHO

Am I the only one who remembers that the P in PI stands for PRIVATE? I know it's "as opposed to public servant in law enforcement" but hello.

One has to put trust SOMEWHERE into the equation.

Quija wrote:

<quoted text>
Hahaha --- FireCat, that's EXACTLY what they'd be thinking!
How can I doubt what Helena said since I've got no other information!? But it never hurts to express what your (i.e., MY) common sense questions.
I am still curious about liability for accidents and injuries of nursing students sent far distances. Maybe Mason know the LAW PART. I mean, they make you sign waivers when you take a swimming class in case you slip on the tile!

Dunno, but they do state pretty clearly (and I did lots of reading on this yesterday....:-p...) that transportation is the students' responsibility.

What happens if you live off-campus and are broadsided on your way to class?

Whiskey Dick Mountain wrote:

i've been a little confused by the reports of the scent trail. it leads from the crash site and heads west on 112 towards bradley hill, or past bradley hill, to a place near the driveway of the sbd, yes/no? the wikipedia site said that it led to place between two houses. was the sbd's house one of these, and the other? the CW trailer? just trying to place this trail exactly. i'm sure i will get more than one answer or none at all. i am sure its been discussed before, but i can't find it. thanks again.

Here's a quote from Maribeth Conway's article in the Whitman-Hanson Express regarding the scent trail.

"Wednesday's efforts did produce one significant lead. The lone search dog on the scene was given a black leather glove from Maura's car to sniff. Though the dog did not get any hits in the adjacent wooded area or from nearby homes, the dog did track Maura's scent near the intersection of Bradley Hill Road 100 yards eastbound from where her car was found.

***

The abrupt loss of Maura's scent in the middle of the road prompted officials to speculate that Maura got into a passing vehicle. Whether she did so voluntarily or was forced remains open to question."

Now you need to figure out where her car was and measure the 100 yds from there, which you can do with Google Satellite. From a combination of sources, I've estimated the crash site to be halfway between the curve and the Bradley Hill intersection, or 125 yds from either one. The scent trail, therefore, must end 25 yards before the intersection. I'm not satisfied this location is 100% accurate, but don't know how to be more precise without police reports.

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks and thanks too Mason for the information re her friends. Poor Helena was always after me because I confuse the initials MA and ME, thanks too for the link...
I even looked on a map and still got it confused.
Mason: do you know the name of the girl who stated that Maura had "changed recently", her name was Katie and not Kate M. Often wondered what she meant?
Maura competed with Kate M. in track and field meets prior to going to U of Mass, did they know one another prior to U of Mass? I do believe Kate said, "they met up again", but hey can't be trusted with my memory.

I recall reading a quote from KM in which she said she first met Maura when the UMass track coach introduced her to the team. KM was a member.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
Here's a quote from Maribeth Conway's article in the Whitman-Hanson Express regarding the scent trail.
"Wednesday's efforts did produce one significant lead. The lone search dog on the scene was given a black leather glove from Maura's car to sniff. Though the dog did not get any hits in the adjacent wooded area or from nearby homes, the dog did track Maura's scent near the intersection of Bradley Hill Road 100 yards eastbound from where her car was found.
***
The abrupt loss of Maura's scent in the middle of the road prompted officials to speculate that Maura got into a passing vehicle. Whether she did so voluntarily or was forced remains open to question."
Now you need to figure out where her car was and measure the 100 yds from there, which you can do with Google Satellite. From a combination of sources, I've estimated the crash site to be halfway between the curve and the Bradley Hill intersection, or 125 yds from either one. The scent trail, therefore, must end 25 yards before the intersection. I'm not satisfied this location is 100% accurate, but don't know how to be more precise without police reports.

wow Mason! Thanks! That's a great answer. Is this location between two houses as indicated by the wikipedia entry? When I first read this, I thought maybe the scent trail was between two houses off of the road, and that she hid there and waited for the scene to clear before...(?)

While looking for smething else, I came across some information in Maribeth Conway's article that people were asking about yesterday.

The beer bottle:

"Fred [Murray] said there was an empty beer bottle found in Maura's car. I was told by others that the bottle was in the back seat and the rear driver's side window was open a crack. Perhaps someone was in the back seat of Maura's car at some point?"

Relationship between Fred Murray and the PIs:

"Fred has given up hope on the effectiveness of the police, believing "shoddy work" is likely the reason they won't release records. "They didn't do what they were supposed to do, and they've been covering up ever since." He is also disillusioned with the league of private investigators."

Were the bloody carpet samples from the A-Frame ever tested:

"A medical laboratory examination was to determine if stains on the carpet were blood, and if available DNA matched Maura's. Seven months later, laboratory test results have not been made available from either group."

MY NOTE: Evidence from a possible crime scene usually is sent to a crime lab. Looks to me like Fred Murray decided to send the PIs sample for testing and, since he's a medical technologist of some sort, I think, he may have selected a medical lab with which he was familiar. Therefore, he must know the results.

Very disturbing.......... Did you all know that in NH they don't publise their sex offenders.!!! That is very shocking. You can search by name - NOT by zip etc.. Here in WA state - you commit that type of crime - your picture runs EVERY weekend on local TV - you can search by zip, name, neighboorhood etc..... Up comes their picture and their home address. You lose your privacy when you commit a crime like that here. I could not agree more either. It is unreal we can't search that zip code for sex offendors in the area.......... that is a$$ backwards if you ask me. I am from here - I am not going to defend people that commit that type of crime. The locals there should want this info to protect their loved ones and children. Another thing if I was the Murrays I would be furious over.

Whiskey Dick Mountain wrote:

<quoted text>
wow Mason! Thanks! That's a great answer. Is this location between two houses as indicated by the wikipedia entry? When I first read this, I thought maybe the scent trail was between two houses off of the road, and that she hid there and waited for the scene to clear before...(?)

My understanding is that the dog lost the scent trail in the middle of the road and at no point did it venture into the woods. So, no, I don't believe the scent trail supports a theory that she hid between a couple of houses.

An interesting question that you might want to consider is to determine whether the location where the dog lost the scent would have been visible to anyone looking in that direction from their home. Specifically, take a look at the SBD's front porch and the location where he parked the school bus that night after he talked to Maura. He backed it in and was sitting in the front seat supposedly filling out paperwork for the ski-trip he drove earlier in the day.

I'd be interested to see what conclusions you come up with because I still don't have this sorted out in my mind.

You also get a brief description of what they did - from inappropriate conversations with a youth, rape of child, rape of an adult - etc. It also tells you the class of offendor - so you know if repeat offendor or why they are registered. Wow..

Mason - you have new work cut out for you. I think you should file the paperwork needed and get this going.I wonder if parents that send their kids to school there know this.

I am not trying to offend locals. YOU OF ALL PEOPLE should want this. I have checked it out everytime I have moved. Nothing wrong with making educated decisions.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Am I the only one who remembers that the P in PI stands for PRIVATE? I know it's "as opposed to public servant in law enforcement" but hello.
One has to put trust SOMEWHERE into the equation.

Common sense dictates that one should always be cautious when deciding whether to trust another person due to the possibility of hidden agendas that might compromise objectivity, if not honesty. No person's objectivity is immune from influence by an opinion they have already formed.

Dawn wrote:

You also get a brief description of what they did - from inappropriate conversations with a youth, rape of child, rape of an adult - etc. It also tells you the class of offendor - so you know if repeat offendor or why they are registered. Wow..
Mason - you have new work cut out for you. I think you should file the paperwork needed and get this going.I wonder if parents that send their kids to school there know this.

I believe that this issue has come up from time to time in NH. To change the present policy, I believe the state legislature would have to pass a law requiring local police agencies to publicize the information on convicted sex offenders.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
My understanding is that the dog lost the scent trail in the middle of the road and at no point did it venture into the woods. So, no, I don't believe the scent trail supports a theory that she hid between a couple of houses.
An interesting question that you might want to consider is to determine whether the location where the dog lost the scent would have been visible to anyone looking in that direction from their home. Specifically, take a look at the SBD's front porch and the location where he parked the school bus that night after he talked to Maura. He backed it in and was sitting in the front seat supposedly filling out paperwork for the ski-trip he drove earlier in the day.
I'd be interested to see what conclusions you come up with because I still don't have this sorted out in my mind.

It was an air-scent dog (apparently there are two kinds of SAR dogs--those that follow air scent, and those that follow ground scent) and was undoubtedly further hampered by the fact that it was two days later, so there was two days's worth of exhaust fumes, in addition to the fact that in order for air tracking to work best, the air should be fairly still. Two days' worth of NH weather and cars swirling by would only have dissipated the scent.

This is not a criticism of the dog's abilities, or the handler--simply the laws of physics.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
Common sense dictates that one should always be cautious when deciding whether to trust another person due to the possibility of hidden agendas that might compromise objectivity, if not honesty. No person's objectivity is immune from influence by an opinion they have already formed.

Believe me, I know.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
An interesting question that you might want to consider is to determine whether the location where the dog lost the scent would have been visible to anyone looking in that direction from their home.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Quija wrote:

<quoted text>
I am still curious about liability for accidents and injuries of nursing students sent far distances. Maybe Mason know the LAW PART. I mean, they make you sign waivers when you take a swimming class in case you slip on the tile!

I asked the same question awhile ago when I was assuming that UMass would provide bus transportation for students required to go to off-campus locations for clinical experience. I haven't researched the issue, but I've taught torts and the legal analysis would likely be as follows.

The first question is to determine whether a university has a duty to exercise reasonable care to prevent its students from being harmed by others. I think the answer is yes.

The next question is to determine the scope of that duty. The scope likely will depend on the foreseeability of harm, that is, it reasonably foreseeable that a student might be injured commuting off campus in their own vehicle to attend clinical programs? This is an interesting question because unlike other clinical programs, nurses commute farther, work longer hours, and are exposed to emotionally traumatic circumstances like the ones Peri described. One also must consider road conditions that might be expected during a typical New England winter. Elevated physical and emotional exhaustion appear to substantially increase the general risk of harm to nursing students compared to other students. I was shocked to learn that Maura had a 200 mile commute to Norwood and I didn't believe that any school would require a student to travel that far to a clinical.

The next question is whether the university did something or failed to do something it should have done and that failure proximately caused the injury to the student. One could take the position that the scope of liability should not extend beyond the driver or driver's involved. Thus, if a nurse driving back to UMass from Norwood falls asleep at the wheel and loses her life in a one vehicle crash, she caused the accident and no liability should attach to the university. The legal test is called the but for test. Can one say that but for the university's failure to provide transportation for its student, the student would not have been injured? Shouldn't the student's own negligence cut-off liability for the university?

The law of torts is policy driven and liability concepts expand over time even if the legal rules remain the same. This is why torts is usually the most popular class in law school and professors love it because it's a blast to teach because it requires students to think. No one passes torts by just memorizing the rules.

I can see an argument for imposing liability on the university because auto accidents are reasonably foreseeable, particularly for nursing students, even if the causation issue favors not imposing liability.

Would a signed disclaimer absolve the university of liability? Probably not because it might be void as as a matter of public policy since the student is required to take the course and must sign the disclaimer or be prohibited from taking the course.

Sooner or later an accident will happen and the school will be sued. Will a judge permit the case to go to jury trial, or will the judge rule as a matter of law that the university cannot be held liable due to lack of causation? If the latter, will an appellate court reverse?

You be the judge.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
It was an air-scent dog (apparently there are two kinds of SAR dogs--those that follow air scent, and those that follow ground scent) and was undoubtedly further hampered by the fact that it was two days later, so there was two days's worth of exhaust fumes, in addition to the fact that in order for air tracking to work best, the air should be fairly still. Two days' worth of NH weather and cars swirling by would only have dissipated the scent.
This is not a criticism of the dog's abilities, or the handler--simply the laws of physics.

Yes, your point is valid and I should have mentioned it in my response. Due to the passage of time and the ambient conditions, one cannot conclude with a high level of confidence that the human source of the scent got into a motor vehicle at the spot where the dog lost the scent. One can only say that the human source of the scent was at that location, or close to it.

This information came from UMASS to HPD so if you
are stating it's uncorrect isn't it possible UMASS or MA LE have forward other information
incorrectly?

I was under the impression that Maura worked in the afternoon?

A standard check out time for the hotel would be
11 AM.

And didn't she check her voice mail once retreiving her phone from Sara's room?

Where you able to find the receipt?

Thanks!

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>according to the article in the JO the witness claimed to see Maura early Sunday morning. Problem with this witnesses statement is that Maura was not on campus Sunday morning. She was with her father until he dropped her off Sunday afternoon.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, your point is valid and I should have mentioned it in my response. Due to the passage of time and the ambient conditions, one cannot conclude with a high level of confidence that the human source of the scent got into a motor vehicle at the spot where the dog lost the scent. One can only say that the human source of the scent was at that location, or close to it.

Yup. Thoroughly agree. Had the dog scented her ten minutes afterward, that would have been one thing. Two days later, another entirely.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
My understanding is that the dog lost the scent trail in the middle of the road and at no point did it venture into the woods. So, no, I don't believe the scent trail supports a theory that she hid between a couple of houses.
An interesting question that you might want to consider is to determine whether the location where the dog lost the scent would have been visible to anyone looking in that direction from their home. Specifically, take a look at the SBD's front porch and the location where he parked the school bus that night after he talked to Maura. He backed it in and was sitting in the front seat supposedly filling out paperwork for the ski-trip he drove earlier in the day.
I'd be interested to see what conclusions you come up with because I still don't have this sorted out in my mind.

This and SBD's wife saying "I dont no where the female is".