Where is MAURA MURRAY

Advocator wrote:

With the temperatures that low, I wonder how hard was the surface of the snow that had been on the ground? My thought is this: I know that very hard frozen snow can be solid enough for someone to walk on without necessarily breaking through. Maura was not a heavy girl, and she wasn't wearing heavy boots or shoes. Does anyone think it could have been possible for her to walk on hard-surfaced snow for at least a short distance? If so, there may well have been no tracks.

I think its possible yes, but I believe there had been a light snow that day that wouln't have been hardened yet.

Come on think about what you are saying. Feb. 9th 2004 very cold, freezing. Do you think the first place you would choose to hide is a frozen river.

Mr. Alberto

Or the 2cnd or even 3rd......I don't think so.

Alberto

Logic AL wrote:

Come on think about what you are saying. Feb. 9th 2004 very cold, freezing. Do you think the first place you would choose to hide is a frozen river.
Mr. Alberto

The river is so low in the winter that there really is no hiding possible. Seems to me that arrangements were made ahead of time for her, or whoever was driving the car, to be picked up by the red truck from Mass--explains why the scent dogs were only able to track her scent for such a short distance and explains why her vehicle was locked. Records show that one of the last cell phone calls she made was to a dormroom at UMass.....did that student have a red pick up truck? I'm sure UMass keeps a record of who was in each dorm over the years.

[QUOTE who="OH MYOne thing bothers me and that is the Chalet Shaffer in Woodsville was burned down by a new heater that was just installed and the person who owned that sports bar left in kind of a hurry.
[/QUOTE]

Wasn't the person who owned Schaeffer Stadium Sports Bar one of the original developers of one of the sections of Mt. Lakes?

Beagle Bart
Did you ask him where the airbag sensors
are located?
They are not located on the hood.
For a hitch to cause this damage impact
would be on the drivers side.
All hitches are about knee high anything
higher on a bummer has a just a plain ball from my wandering of everyday parking lots.
Maura's hood is about thigh high for
a visual.
Couple feet difference.
So for a hitch to be that high
it would be on an extension in order
to do that kind of damage.
But the sensors are in the bummer.
If the hitch sticks out a good foot
from a truck bummer how on earth did
her bummer hit with enough impact to
set off the air bags when the hitch
would clearly keep it from the trucks
bummer?

BeagleBart wrote:

I showed a photo of the Saturn's hood damage to a guy with decades of body work experience and asked him what might have caused the dent. Completely neutral, no prompting. Without any hesitation he said, "looks like it hit the back of a pickup truck." I asked him whether the damage could have been caused by hittng a trailer hitch? "Oh, sure. Definitely." I asked him whether the damage could have been done by hitting a tree. "Definitely not," he said.

What's a bummer?

White Wash wrote:

"The orginal witness statement to police was
The officer began questioning neighbors looking for
information about the accident. They learned that a woman
in her 20s had been seen at the vehicle.
They questioned a school bus driver who had stopped to
inquire is she needed
assistance. According to the statement given the police,
the witness stated the woman's speech was slurred and she
had to hold on to something while she stood. "She begged me
not to call police," according to the witness' statement.
She did not hit a snowbank she hit a set of 3 trees hard enough for 2 witnesses to hear it
and to set off both air bags which have been tested along with the soda bottle.
Believe what you want the FACTS are what they are.
Despite people being bullied into changing and twisting them to fit on or another theory.

From the damage it is evident she did not hit three trees.
Atwood himself said he never said she seemed intoxicated. Is there another witness who spoke to the driver that you know of?
You state these things are fact, yet they contradict the facts revealed to date. No one is bullying anyone to fit a theory. All theories should be examined throroughly. The theory of hitting the trees is not logical given the damage sustained. Please state theory as such and not present it as fact.

Watching wrote:

What's a bummer?

I think that was meant to be "bumper"....took me a minute there.

Watching wrote:

<quoted text>
From the damage it is evident she did not hit three trees.
Atwood himself said he never said she seemed intoxicated. Is there another witness who spoke to the driver that you know of?
You state these things are fact, yet they contradict the facts revealed to date. No one is bullying anyone to fit a theory. All theories should be examined throroughly. The theory of hitting the trees is not logical given the damage sustained. Please state theory as such and not present it as fact.

Also, there is some question as to when the airbag actually deployed.(whoops, this was supposed to include the quote that Watching was addressing, the one about hitting three trees and both airbags deploying.)

Can someone confirm, I'm not even sure Maura's car HAD a passenger side airbag? Where are our 90s Saturn experts? Bob? Shack?

White Wash wrote:

Beagle Bart
Did you ask him where the airbag sensors
are located?
They are not located on the hood.
For a hitch to cause this damage impact
would be on the drivers side.
All hitches are about knee high anything
higher on a bummer has a just a plain ball from my wandering of everyday parking lots.
Maura's hood is about thigh high for
a visual.
Couple feet difference.
So for a hitch to be that high
it would be on an extension in order
to do that kind of damage.
But the sensors are in the bummer.
If the hitch sticks out a good foot
from a truck bummer how on earth did
her bummer hit with enough impact to
set off the air bags when the hitch
would clearly keep it from the trucks
bummer?
<quoted text>

On many pickup trucks, especially those with improved ground clearance, the hitch's receiver tube is about the same height as the dent in the Saturn's hood. This is high for the average trailer's tongue, but not if the ball mount has a six inch drop, which is very common. Many pick up truck owners keep the ball mount removed when they are not towing; and many pickup truck owners have no mount because they never tow. The front of the Saturn's hood could easily have contacted the receiver tube on a truck's trailer hitch.

The airbag control unit, which is what "decides" whether or not to pop the airbags, processes information from more than just the vehicle's impact sensors. The ACU also processes information from sensors that monitor direction of impact, brake pressure, deceleration, and G-forces.

Suddenly leave the paved surface, hit a good bump with the undercarriage, swerve sideways, punch the brakes, and hit a receiver tube on a pickup truck… well, it's not impossible to understand why the airbags have given you a free facial.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Also, there is some question as to when the airbag actually deployed.(whoops, this was supposed to include the quote that Watching was addressing, the one about hitting three trees and both airbags deploying.)
Can someone confirm, I'm not even sure Maura's car HAD a passenger side airbag? Where are our 90s Saturn experts? Bob? Shack?

Yes, 1996 Saturns had dual airbags.

Whether airbag deployment would have been triggered by a deliberate blow to a parked Saturn is an excellent and obviously really important question, but a small collision with a pickup/SUV is a very real possibility here.

Just in case there's some confusion… The hitch is not the ball that is often screwed onto the flat surface of a bumper in front of the vehicle's registration plate. The hitch is below the horizontal plane of the bumper. The front bumper of the Saturn could easily have gone under a pickup truck's rear bumper and receiver tube, sustaining little if any damage.

BeagleBart wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, 1996 Saturns had dual airbags.

Thanks. That was never clear to me.

Mauras car never hit any trees, I can assure this. In my opiniopn Her car was placed there for a reason. I don't mean by maura, but by someone else....STAGED SCENE.

Columbo

1995 Saturn front end measurements...ground to bottom of rubber bumper 11 1/2"....ground to top of rubber bumper 18".... Then 4" of plastic lip/shelf to bottom of headlight.....headlights
4 1/2" to bottom edge/lip of hood.
Headlights 17 1/2" L. In between 2 headlights 15 1/2" L Middle of hood lip 24" from ground...

Don't know if there is difference in other 90's Saturns.....

I know this is out of sequence of the present discussion...but, I found it while searching for
Saturn measurements. If I don't Post it now, I'll
prbably not find it again.
From Sharon, Billy's Mom, Maura's mother in law to be,(a past Post, talking to CS)
“I was on duty last night and received a call around 7:00 or 7:30 PM that there was an accident. I arrived on the scene approximately 10 minutes after I received the call. As I was driving to the scene of the accident, I met 5 or 6 cars. When I arrived on the scene there was no one present. I ran the plates and saw that the car belonged to 61 year old Frederick Murray of Weymouth MA. There was only one set of footprints leading from the car.......... I assumed we would hear from Mr. Murray about his car. When we did not, we started trying to reach him today ( note:“today” would have been Tuesday Feb 10th). When we finally reached him this evening, we learned that his daughter Maura, was driving the car.” I asked him many questions and he clearly indicated that he had no knowledge that a young girl was driving this abandoned car.

(The last sentence was Sharon asking CS)

Are the photos of the Saturn that were hosted by the MMM site still publicly viewable?

Detective Columbo wrote:

Mauras car never hit any trees, I can assure this. In my opiniopn Her car was placed there for a reason. I don't mean by maura, but by someone else....STAGED SCENE.
Columbo

What indicated the crash scene was staged? Or, if not actually staged, what indicated that the damage to the hood occurred elsewhere?

BBart -- this link should take you to photos of the Saturn as well as accident report:

http://www.mauramurraymissing.com/Documents.h...

BeagleBart wrote:

Are the photos of the Saturn that were hosted by the MMM site still publicly viewable?