Where is MAURA MURRAY

OH MY wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree with you and others that the timeline we may be following was all set in mothion well before that evening Maura dissapeared and that what ever happened to Maura started well before that night her car was found but someone triied very hard to make everything look like they wanted us to see it!
What a tangled web they weave once they want to decieve others!

You got it! Do you sense it's starting to untangle?

If i remember correctly, very early on here did you toss out the idea that the Saturn was up in NH before Monday? I'm to lazy to go back and check! What do you think started even before Monday night? I don't know where to begin... off the top of my head had Maura already somehow gotten the Saturn taken up there, and when she left UMass on Monday it wasn't even IN the Saturn? hmmmmmmmm

Just to get your feedback I thought I'd bring over a bizarre post I put on the other forum:

Does anyone know the last time the Saturn was seen on campus or in Amherst?

Oh MY just said something that suggested the whole chain of events started even before Monday night.

Is there any chance that IF Maura went to NH that she did so in a different vehicle?

Could the Saturn have been relocated somehow to NH before Monday?(I'm jumping off a TOPIX poster's idea from last spring. Oh My, was that you too?) Why relocate it? I don't know. The Vasi hit and run? A decision to have it crushed at Jet Star in Haverhill, as we talked about here early on?

In terms of SBD's ID of Maura, there may have been very good reasons for the SBD to tell the press that the driver mostly looked like Maura, if he was instructed to by LE.(And that she was intoxicated and not intoxicated, etc. etc. He must've been very stressed trying not to say what he shouldn't and keep his fake storyline straight!)(Note: I believe the SBD is an innocent man.)

There needs to be a good purpose for this kind of staging and these way-out ideas.

I see the question whiston has been raising (whiston, excuse me if i'm misinterpreting you): we really don't know for a fact that Maura left Amherst in the Saturn, or left Amherst at all!

Also crossing my mind is if A LOT OF THINGS WERE STAGED. Not just The Accident. The trip up there with no witness ever coming forward to say they saw Maura getting gas or snacks.(That, in itself wouldn't be unusual, tho.) That she even WENT up there. The perfect selection of personal memorabilia in the car, her school books... for a sure ID of her. Some things left in the car to suggest suicide: Not Without Peril, alcohol, a rag in the tailpipe that could be construed as a way to die from CO poisoning... maybe even little items hinting of inappropriate behavior (one of which could be those little light bulbs, which people --other than Maura--- use for, what?, crack? ice?

What would be SO huge to require such a complex staging? What would motivate it? All I can think of right now is SONEONE'S death by accident or by rage (Vasi, altho he survived; or Maura herself in Amherst?). Did Maura get cash and liquor and never get to Haverhill at all?

In terms of AN ACCIDENT BEING STAGED (when first mentioned by Weeper to mean something else) I was always thinking on a small scale --- a carjacking not far from the Weathered Barn, etc. But what about the entire scenario having been staged because of something tragic that happened in Amherst?

No, I do not watch the X-Files or CSI.

But I see why Amherst needs to be checked out if it hasn't already. And IIRC someone casually tossed out the "fact" (?) that UMass Police and the FBI did the work in Mass. and the FBI was involved in nearby states like NY, CT, VT... Maybe they have their POI already? And he/she is NOT in New Hampshire?

I will fix the link to the Brian Rooney Pix.

Sorry, I don't know what happened.

Columbo

Quija wrote:

Just to get your feedback I thought I'd bring over a bizarre post I put on the other forum:
Does anyone know the last time the Saturn was seen on campus or in Amherst?
Oh MY just said something that suggested the whole chain of events started even before Monday night.
Is there any chance that IF Maura went to NH that she did so in a different vehicle?
Could the Saturn have been relocated somehow to NH before Monday?(I'm jumping off a TOPIX poster's idea from last spring. Oh My, was that you too?) Why relocate it? I don't know. The Vasi hit and run? A decision to have it crushed at Jet Star in Haverhill, as we talked about here early on?
In terms of SBD's ID of Maura, there may have been very good reasons for the SBD to tell the press that the driver mostly looked like Maura, if he was instructed to by LE.(And that she was intoxicated and not intoxicated, etc. etc. He must've been very stressed trying not to say what he shouldn't and keep his fake storyline straight!)(Note: I believe the SBD is an innocent man.)
There needs to be a good purpose for this kind of staging and these way-out ideas.
I see the question whiston has been raising (whiston, excuse me if i'm misinterpreting you): we really don't know for a fact that Maura left Amherst in the Saturn, or left Amherst at all!
Also crossing my mind is if A LOT OF THINGS WERE STAGED. Not just The Accident. The trip up there with no witness ever coming forward to say they saw Maura getting gas or snacks.(That, in itself wouldn't be unusual, tho.) That she even WENT up there. The perfect selection of personal memorabilia in the car, her school books... for a sure ID of her. Some things left in the car to suggest suicide: Not Without Peril, alcohol, a rag in the tailpipe that could be construed as a way to die from CO poisoning... maybe even little items hinting of inappropriate behavior (one of which could be those little light bulbs, which people --other than Maura--- use for, what?, crack? ice?
What would be SO huge to require such a complex staging? What would motivate it? All I can think of right now is SONEONE'S death by accident or by rage (Vasi, altho he survived; or Maura herself in Amherst?). Did Maura get cash and liquor and never get to Haverhill at all?
In terms of AN ACCIDENT BEING STAGED (when first mentioned by Weeper to mean something else) I was always thinking on a small scale --- a carjacking not far from the Weathered Barn, etc. But what about the entire scenario having been staged because of something tragic that happened in Amherst?
No, I do not watch the X-Files or CSI.
But I see why Amherst needs to be checked out if it hasn't already. And IIRC someone casually tossed out the "fact" (?) that UMass Police and the FBI did the work in Mass. and the FBI was involved in nearby states like NY, CT, VT... Maybe they have their POI already? And he/she is NOT in New Hampshire?

The Vasi connection...directly or indirectly through a friend is as tangible as any.

The idea of staging fits.

The 'perfect' selection of personal items to 'suggest'....is brilliant.

I cannot understand why Maura would have left any diamond jewelry behind, in a locked car, unless she intended to return fairly quickly...or was too distressed to gather it before leaving.
If, in fact, she was at the location at all.

Dawn wrote:

As I mentioned before - MA residents took a HUGE stand for the Bish case. Largest search in the states history . This is a prime opp for NH to do the same. that is all I am saying. I get feedback - let them live their lives in peace.. etc.. When they could actually be the heros.

Hi Dawn,
We don't even know that Maura vanished from NH. She may have vanished from MA.

Let's try this link, It worked from my computer.

http://docs.google.com/gview...

Does anyone know if her car was delivered to NH before Monday on the order or at the request of the responsible perp? Maybe someone in Amherst knows.

propaganda firetruck wrote:

Does anyone know if her car was delivered to NH before Monday on the order or at the request of the responsible perp? Maybe someone in Amherst knows.

That is what a local poster on TOPIX in May or June suggested --- that the car was up there before Monday and someone was enjoying driving it recklessly around... Don't know if it was just a provocative suggestion...

Hello all,

Wasn´t it witness TM who is reported to have said that he actually saw the Saturn being reversed into the snowbank on Rte 112 by the Weathered Barn.
If so, this may expain why Mrs W-n heard an acceleration and a subsequent thump.
First the accleration of the Saturn being reversed into the snowbank and then the thump of it hitting the snowbank.
Does this sound like something that Maura would be likely to do? Very doubtful indeed.

And why stage an accident in this fashion in the immediate neighbourhood of several houses and not in the wilderness of the National Forest just round the corner?

Was there a point in actually making sure that the Saturn would be seen as soon as possible?

If TM´s witness statement is correct on this point this very much suggests a staged incident and also that the Saturn may well have "arrived" in NH earlier than previously thought.

I don't know that the Saturm was crushed at Jet Star in Haverhill - is that a fact? I seem to have seen someone say that it had been crushed when it was actually still in Twin Mountain. If it was crushed, I think that's very suspicious. You do not crush a car that might contain evidence of a crime, period. If it's true, it looks like an attempt to conceal evidence of a crime.

I think - as Wowzer has pointed out - that we should all back up and reconsider our opinions of SBD. Yes, his account is inconsistent - no argument there. We - myself included - have been making a number of assumptions based on what we believed were facts - now we see that they are NOT facts, and may well be misdirections to make us believe that SBD willfully lied to LE. I don't know why. It looks to me like if you cast suspicion so strongly in one direction, you're deflecting it from other POIs - and I don't like that.

It is far too easy, as well, to take Weeper at his word when he says that the accident didn't happen there. I agree that it seems likely that it happened elsewhere, but I'm not at all comfortable accepting what anyone says just because they say so. I think this is something that's messed this search up for years - accepting as fact things that are not facts.

A case in point: "someone casually tossed out the "fact" (?) that UMass Police and the FBI did the work in Mass. and the FBI was involved in nearby states like NY, CT, VT... "
Is this really a fact? If true, it would certainly indicate that MA should be the focus of any inquiry. How to know if it's true? Unless we know for a fact that it's true, it would be a bad idea to center inquiry exclusively on MA.

Now we know that it seems that while SBD's claim to have been in LE wasn't entirely true, it also wasn't entirely false. There's an enormous difference between exaggerating a connection to LE and a witness giving a perjured statement that he was a LEO. There's also the fact that the "accident" if it was staged was almost in his front yard. Someone is working very hard to make SBD look guilty of something, That makes me very suspicious.

The saturn is still at Troop F barracks in Twin Mtn NH. It is parked outside and not inside the impound area. The car has not been crushed.

The last time I saw the car there it was 2 weeks ago.

sophie,
A poster on TOPIX back last spring or summer just mentioned Jet Star. We discovered they did auto crushing after removing the fluids and sent the vehicles on to Boston for further crushing. No-one ever said the Saturn was crushed; in an earlier post i was wondering if that had been a possible goal.

I'll have to search for it, but I'd say 1-2 months ago someone reputable from the old forum (can't remember who) mentioned that UMass Police and FBI handled interviews with friends and family in Mass. and surrounding states. I have since repeated that here in my posts since i thought it seemed interesting that the FBI had done interviews in states other than NH. I'll check the source and get back to you.

Detective Columbo wrote:

Let's try this link, It worked from my computer.
http://docs.google.com/gview...

No dice. Boo on google docs not playing nice with Columbo.

Peabody posted this on MM forum 3-07-05. It shows FBI investigated family and friends in Hanson, MA, but not at UMass. I will look for other links that said the FBI did a little more interviewing.

PEABODY [extended Murray family member]:
...the invitation to the FBI from NH LE to actively assist in the investigation has never been given. Because Fred Murray let it be known through the media that the FBI was willing to assist, and in an attempt to placate Fred Murray, Lt. Scarinza asked the FBI to interview family and friends in Maura's hometown of Hanson MA...

The FBI was not involved in any investigation at UMass - the UMass Campus Police handled that end of the investigation........by the way, an investigation in which Maura's family and Lt. Rausch were very pleased.

It IS true that the only way FBI was utilized in the case was to do MA interviews of friends etc.(Obviously UMass police only has jurisdiction at UMass, so it's silly to expect them to work anywhere else.)

The trouble with assuming this means that the big secret is indeed at Amherst is that the FBI OFFERED to help in New Hampshire and were REFUSED by NH LE. They need to be invited to help. They can't just swoop in like they do on TV, unless there's clear evidence of interstate crime.(the fact that Maura appears to have left MA under her own volition is why they can't claim automatic jurisdiction, unless I'm mistaken.)

With the LE in NH refusing help at that end, this means that the ONLY other place for the FBI to be involved in any way, shape, or form, is someplace where NH has no jurisdiction. Which is MA.

It seems to me (and this is ONLY MY OPINION) that NH LE sent the FBI to go off and play in a corner with the pots and pans while they themselves remained in charge of cooking the actual meal. And that this is the way they wanted it, for whatever reason (whether incriminating or simply the fairly standard "we don't need no national law enforcement help in our local PD" business that occurs throughout state and local PDs everywhere. They tend to get testy because they see it as the feds implying that they can't do their jobs.)

Not necessarily the best use of their resources, especially considering that HPD was decidedly and admittedly understaffed at that point in time. I don't know whether it was NHSP or HPD who made that decision, but I do know that HPD was hurtin' for manpower at that point.

Hello everyone,

Does anyone have thoughts on why they can't show the ATM/liquor store videos? Previous posters have stated that the family has not even seen the video(s). If that is true, how does LE know that it is Maura on video if her family has not identified her on it?
Which LE has jurisdiction on those videos?

Quija wrote:

<quoted text>
You got it! Do you sense it's starting to untangle?
If i remember correctly, very early on here did you toss out the idea that the Saturn was up in NH before Monday? I'm to lazy to go back and check! What do you think started even before Monday night? I don't know where to begin... off the top of my head had Maura already somehow gotten the Saturn taken up there, and when she left UMass on Monday it wasn't even IN the Saturn? hmmmmmmmm

I was not the first to think the saturn was driven or towed here by someone else but I know if a rag is in a tailpipe your car won't stay running try it to your own car!
Something is very fishy with this whole deal with a car that won't run and a woman gone missing and trained officers dismissing that anyone was missing as I almost think the police saw a car that would not run so how could they get by that fact except realize it was staged and were looking for the criminals who did that staging!
Monihan is a D.O.T. SP and worked out of Concord so with his knowledge he had to have known the car had been disabled and wasn't falling for this magic trick that was being perpetrated!!! He is no dumby and it is hard to pull the wool over his eyes.
so #1 the car was disabled #2 he was in the area but worked out of Concord day shift at D.O.T.#3 he was looking for someone right? WHY? He should have just been getting home around 5pm or 6pm and to my knowledge wasn't called to the scene #4 I think the saturn was being watched by some 3 letter agency of the goverment and he was asked to check it out by some agency #5 I think the car was tagged with a location transmitter but was removed or disabled by someone #6 was someone involved in drugs?
These are all theory's but I was thinking outside the box and wrote my feelings today.
Jet Star didn't crush anything and I think the saturn is still in storage. No one in goverment would let Jet Star do anything for them unless DM has something on the GOV. after all he has burnt down about 8 houses in the last 20 years that I know of and ins. has paid for them all and he mkes money everytime.
Could it be Maura worked for the dea and was working up here and her cover was blown?
Did Maura sell drugs and not pay her bill to one of the Don's up here and she needed to disappear or else?
There was alot of Deaths in that area in 2004 and a few were drug dealers, what a way for the goverment to close the holes in the border by killing drug dealers close to the border that would be an efficient and cheap way to restore Security if there was a Security breach up there and while they were being identified she was identified and had to disappear or they would make her disappear!
Who the hel l knows for now but how many other cases of missing persons has gotten this amount of publicitty around here well none I say and the LE and the AG office lied about this case and Liko Kenny's case. So much publicity with so many story's and reports and Fred pushed so hard and the AG's office and the court won't give him any reports. WHY? Alot of unaswered questions by LE and LE telling certain people not to trust investigators or new LE and some of top LE in Concord in the SP getting done by quitting.. Alot of WHY's and no answers that I can find and I have looked extensively in every corner, nook and cranny..

Here are a couple articles i found so far that talk about the FBI's investigation:

www.boston.com/news/local...g_student/

With no new leads, FBI joins search for missing student

By Peter DeMarco, Globe Correspondent, 2/20/2004

…The FBI has joined in the search for missing college student Maura Murray, but without a single lead in the nearly two-week old case, New Hampshire authorities said the additional investigators might not make a difference.

…Nevertheless, at the urging of Murray's father, Fred, New Hampshire State Police are now working with Boston-based FBI agents on the case, officials said.

…Though police have questioned many of Murray's family members and friends, FBI agents will probably return to UMass-Amherst and Hanson for further interviews and background checks, said Lieutenant John Scarinza, commander of State Police Troop F....

enterprise.southofboston....
Investigators say Murray probably left in another vehicle

By Elaine Allegrini, Enterprise staff writer

...Meanwhile, the investigation into the Feb. 9 disappearance widened Thursday when the FBI joined the probe at the request of New Hampshire State Police. FBI agents spent Thursday morning interviewing Murray's mother, Lauri Murray, at her Hanson home…

"They want to talk to everybody that knows her, any clue," said a distraught Lauri Murray. "We're pushing, now, two weeks and there's not a word or a sign of this girl."…

...New Hampshire State Police Lt. John Scarinza said investigators are as frustrated as Murray's family and friends. He hopes the FBI will uncover some information to shed some light on her disappearance while New Hampshire state and local police continue their probe…

Thanks, Columbo, I thought that the Saturn was probably still there.
Thanks, Quija, for providing the information about the FBI.
As for the rest, I may yet learn to SoB when the need arises.