Where is MAURA MURRAY

Can anyone point to good secondary source discussions of this case (aside from newspaper articles)? Much appreciated. I very much want to learn more.

So... back to the subject of Maura.

Could a secret lover or family member or close friend have confidently - CONFIDENTLY - told the cops that Maura was driving the Saturn when Vasi was hit?

Could a secret lover or family member or close friend have confidently - CONFIDENTLY - told the cops that Maura was driving the Saturn when Vasi was hit?

John wrote:

Can anyone point to good secondary source discussions of this case (aside from newspaper articles)? Much appreciated. I very much want to learn more.

John,

Please google - Maura Murray Weeper.

This should lead you to the link to Find Maura Murray forum.

For some reason we cannot post the actual link.

Beagle wrote:

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Maura might have been trapped into keeping her mouth shut not out of personal loyalty but out of fear. She may have been told that she would be REPORTED to LE as the driver of the car that hit Vasi by the person who was ACTUALLY driving the car.

Seems the car -- the Saturn -- was insured by Maura's father. Just curious, if the Saturn hit Vasi (no matter who was driving), and was known or became known to have hit Vasi, could Maura's dad's insurance have been charged?

LogicalSong wrote:

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Seems the car -- the Saturn -- was insured by Maura's father. Just curious, if the Saturn hit Vasi (no matter who was driving), and was known or became known to have hit Vasi, could Maura's dad's insurance have been charged?

The law in Massachusetts is that if the driver of a car, who is not the owner of that car, commits a violation while driving that car, such as vehicular homicide, and he or she cannot be located, then the owner of the car (normally, the person in whose name the car is registered) can be charged with the violation. Most MV violations are civil, not criminal, by the way. MV homicide is criminal. You can go to jail.

So yes, even as a civil matter, Fred could be held responsible if it were known that Maura or anyone else were driving the Saturn if it hit Vasi and the driver could not be located because s/he had disappeared or moved on or whatever.

Which means, as you suggested, that if it were known that Vasi was hit by the Saturn, then the insurance carrier would probably have to cough up some big dough. In Vasi's case, some very big dough.

That's why it's always, always good to remember that the insurance industry is the single biggest source of income for most PI's.

LogicalSong wrote:

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Seems the car -- the Saturn -- was insured by Maura's father. Just curious, if the Saturn hit Vasi (no matter who was driving), and was known or became known to have hit Vasi, could Maura's dad's insurance have been charged?

Sorry, didn't exactly respond before. The insurance co. would not be charged with a crime or violation. But they would probably be paying out some kind of damages, depending on how the car was insured. Actually, it might be possible for the insurance co. to get out of paying a claim by Vasi, but Vasi would, in any event, be suing Fred and Fred would get the money from the insurance carrier if the Saturn was insured against this kind of thing. Clear as mud yet? I think this is about right. Someone else could probably state is more clearly than I can right now.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

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John,
Please google - Maura Murray Weeper.
This should lead you to the link to Find Maura Murray forum.
For some reason we cannot post the actual link.

Many thanks, curiously named poster!

John wrote:

I see a few things things interesting in this case.
1. There is a missing hour of driving time for Maura between Amherst at 4:00 and the accident at about 7:25. She did somehting else with an hour of that time, according to google maps.
2. According to her cell phone service, she got a call from somewhere within 22 miles of a tower in Londonderry at some time during Feb. 9. I wonder if she drove somewhwere else first.
3. There is no logical destination given the other evidence. Even were she going to Bartlett, she was taking an illogical route. As for Stowe or Burlington, she should have taken I-89.
4. Given the low population of the area where the accident occured, there are a quite a high number of convicted sex offenders within a few miles of the accident scene. There is a also a good deal of violent crime in that area, again considering the low population.
5. The cadaver dogs going bonkers in the closet of the A-frame house, and there having subsequently been no seeming testing of the carpet also seems compelling.

Well said.

John wrote:

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This is insanity.

Actually, there's a clinical term for it, but...pretty much, yeah.

If anyone cares to explain (not supposing that anyone has the time for this), but it would help me to know a whose who of this forum. Who is weeper? Who is detective columbo? There seems to be a suggestion that they actually are involved in the investigation. And Beagle, who are you? It sounds like you are in Amherst and actively investigating.

Not asking people to reveal identities, but who is who out here. This stuff is confusing. I just want to be able to sort through all this and learn more. As I said, I am fascinated by this case.

Anyone willing to help me out. Would be much appreciated.

Detective Columbo wrote:

http://news.webshots.com/photo /2187023130098837713hhBRRV
In this article Strelzin stated that:
"Potentially every piece of evidence could bi important in the future"
What about the saturn which was offered back to Fred Murray shortly after 2/9/04. What about the fact that the car sat outside Lavoie's garage in Haverhill until impounded by police months later. NHSP impounded the car then because of Fred Murray pursuing his daughters disappearance.
What about the "FACT" that Maura's saturn has been outdoors, not locked inside the impound fence at NHSP Barracks in Twin Mtn NH ever since it was impounded. I wonder how long the Saturn will be parked on the lawn behind the barracks, 7 yrs, 10 yrs, 15 yrs until the case is solved.
The car WAS one of the biggest clues in this case, but LE at one point was just willing to let Fred have it back. I believe LE had their minds made up from the start, abandoned car, nobody there, not found....They ran away on purpose not looking to be found. I'm not saying this could not be the case, but the circumstances around 2/9/04 in Haverhill tell a different story.
If Maura had a plan to ditch the car in Haverhill or close by she would have been prepared. The person at the vehicle was seen getting in and out of the car, lights going on and off, opening the trunk. If this was aplan to disappear It seems as though what occurred at the acc. scene was not part of the plan. She would have been ready to dump the car, jump out get into another vehicle and be gone. Also why dump the car in a populated area when 2 miles down the rd. it is desolate.
There is also a 75% chance that LE was just feeding info to the media and family to take the pressure off them. Let's see them pull a rabbit out of their hats. Magic...it's about the Illusion.
Columbo

I hope your 2nd to last paragraph finds its way through the brick wall shielding the brain of half the people of this forum, who illogically believe that she "wanted" to run away. Regardless of how you explain it to them, their brain is not designed in a way in which they would be able to comprehend the same level of reasoning that many others have attained. For examples, see "propaganda firetruck" and his laughable posts around the post #8222 area.

Even if, for arguments sake, she did intend to run away, there are absolutely no conceivable circumstances (that make sense) that exist on this planet which would have Maura ending up with her car crashed on the side of a road in the middle of New Hampshire wilderness on a cold February night. If she intended to run away forever (which she didn't), something obviously went drastically wrong along that ride.

There is a psychological science attributed to why some people feel the need to come into a forum and share their incompetent, irrational thoughts about a woman they've never met with people they don't know, and it is directly related to self-esteem and self-image. They subconsciously desire the appeasement and approval of others, wanting them to say "OMG! You solved it you genius! You're so smart! You figured out the missing piece!"

FireCat wrote:

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Actually, there's a clinical term for it, but...pretty much, yeah.

Thanks man. He says some really good stuff. Then he says some wierd stuff. I don't know what to make of it.

Does anyone know if there are any authors out there who are working on writing a book about this story?

John,

Det. Columbo is a PI who has been working on this case for years. "weeper" is another PI who is working on the case.

I believe "beagle" is aka "alden" and about 6 dozen other nicknames. A Conspiracy Theorist, he spends his entire life on this forum, trying to get people to believe that there is some sort of connection between the demand for human body parts and Maura's disappearance. He names all sorts of people and companies, but when you look past the articulate rhetoric, you'll realize he's a complete bumbling moron who needs professional help.

Snowy White is a smart person. That's all I know about her.

"propaganda firetruck" aka "mastermind" aka "Thomas jefferson" is a person whose brain can't comprehend the same reasoning as the rest of us. It's best to ignore him and let him believe that he really is some sort of genius, despite his constant irrational remarks.

Benjamin Franklyne wrote:

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I hope your 2nd to last paragraph finds its way through the brick wall shielding the brain of half the people of this forum, who illogically believe that she "wanted" to run away. Regardless of how you explain it to them, their brain is not designed in a way in which they would be able to comprehend the same level of reasoning that many others have attained. For examples, see "propaganda firetruck" and his laughable posts around the post #8222 area.
Even if, for arguments sake, she did intend to run away, there are absolutely no conceivable circumstances (that make sense) that exist on this planet which would have Maura ending up with her car crashed on the side of a road in the middle of New Hampshire wilderness on a cold February night. If she intended to run away forever (which she didn't), something obviously went drastically wrong along that ride.
There is a psychological science attributed to why some people feel the need to come into a forum and share their incompetent, irrational thoughts about a woman they've never met with people they don't know, and it is directly related to self-esteem and self-image. They subconsciously desire the appeasement and approval of others, wanting them to say "OMG! You solved it you genius! You're so smart! You figured out the missing piece!"

This post and the one from Columbo that it responds to are quite well reasoned. I don't see how any rational person could conclude that she intended to run away ... at leat not permanently. I also agree that there are psychological matters at play in this forum that can be annoying and marginally disturbing. As to the matter of the general psychological motivation behindposting here, I think anyone who does post here probably has at least a touch of that. Pehaps, however, in some cases, that touch is more like an avalanche and results in the fabrication of fantasy scenarios, conspiracies, bizarre accusations, etc.

In any case, I appreciated both your post and the one it responded to.

Johnny Bravado wrote:

John,
Det. Columbo is a PI who has been working on this case for years. "weeper" is another PI who is working on the case.
I believe "beagle" is aka "alden" and about 6 dozen other nicknames. A Conspiracy Theorist, he spends his entire life on this forum, trying to get people to believe that there is some sort of connection between the demand for human body parts and Maura's disappearance. He names all sorts of people and companies, but when you look past the articulate rhetoric, you'll realize he's a complete bumbling moron who needs professional help.
Snowy White is a smart person. That's all I know about her.
"propaganda firetruck" aka "mastermind" aka "Thomas jefferson" is a person whose brain can't comprehend the same reasoning as the rest of us. It's best to ignore him and let him believe that he really is some sort of genius, despite his constant irrational remarks.

This is really helpful, thank you. Initially, I was skeptical about Columbo and Weeper as being PIs, but I see it now. I did pick up on the situation with Beagle. I don't know if you have seen how much time I spent deconstructing his smoke blowing. Wierd thing is, however, when he keeps his surreal fantasy life out of it, the guy has good stuff to offer, I think.

Haven't encountered the others yet, but I appreciate the heads up.

Thanks again.

Does anyone have opinions on the accuracy of the Wikipedia time line?

How about opinions on its completeness?

Are there other time lines out there?

Sara wrote:

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After reading all the circumstances surrounding this case when CNN aired the story a couple months ago, I have always thought that Maura driving up north by herself, at night, in the cold, with a clunker car, all the while fresh off recently totaling her dad's car seemed VERY unlikely.
I believe(not that it matters) that she either never left Amherst, or if she did leave Amherst, someone was helping her get the Saturn north.

Sara,

I agree with you that it was unlikely for her to drive up there like that.

For arguments sake, lets say she never left Amherst and someone else took the Saturn up there to make it look like she drove it and ditched it. Well, that leads to a number of questions:

(1) If someone was attempting to ditch her car by faking an accident, why do it on a road with houses and people all over? Obviously they're taking a HUGE chance of being seen by a witness. Why not just drive the car and stage the accident a few hundred yards down the street where it's deserted?

(2) Even if someone had planned to ditch the car by staging the accident, they must have also planned how to leave and get out of there. Most likely they would have had someone pick them up, and it would be in their own interest to make this transition into another vehicle as quickly as humanly possible to avoid being seen. But, instead, they stuck around the car, opening the trunk and (possibly) smoking cigarettes for at least several minutes, and once again took the HUGE risk of being seen.

(3) Since the SBD says it was def a woman in the car, you're basically saying a woman was involved in Maura's disappearance and a woman drove Maura's car to NH and a woman decided to intentionally crash the car and leave the scene, completely undetected.

(4) How do you explain why and how Maura bought several bottles of liquor immediately prior to the drive, some of which was also found in the Saturn?

The more I analyze this case from every single conceivable angle, the more I'm absolutely convinced that the only feasible scenario is that she was abducted. I think many predators would find it irresistible to see a young, good-looking college girl trapped in their own town with nowhere to go and not try and abduct her. It would be the perfect set of circumstances for any potential predator. Keep in mind that it may not be your stereotypical definition of "predator" that abducted her - it could have easily been a clean, crime-free man who just saw an irresistible opportunity.

If Maura was sober, I cannot see her getting into a car with a complete stranger. However, if a car approached with both a woman and a man in it, I think she'd feel much more comfortable, as many people would. However, her desperate situation could have lead her to get into a car with a stranger.

If Maura was buzzed/drunk, it is a possibility that she got into a car with a random guy. I always think back to an article in March 2004 in which one of Maura's closest girlfriends remarked how she was "flirtatious" when she drank. There are many women who get like that when they drink, and they can't control their impulses.

propaganda firetruck wrote:

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It has been stated on more than one occassion on this forum that Fred says Maura expressed to him a fear for her safety. Reasons for this fear have only been speculated.

When, if ever, are you going to shut up?

I don't think I've ever came across a person who lacks logic to such an extent but is so oblivious to it that they continue to keep believing what they believe. Stupidity is the easiest way to get me frustrated, and you do a superb job at it by simply stating your thoughts. Honestly, I don't even have to look at who wrote some of the posts - I can identify that its you by the illogicality of the post before I see the name of who wrote it.

Now you're going so far to make up random things on the forum, stating that Maura was in fear for her safety. Where the fuck did that come from? Every week you throw some bullshit around to try and get attention. Go get help already.