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Beagle
Amherst, MA
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LogicalSong wrote: If someone borrowed Maura's car, accidentally hit Vasi and then told Maura about it, seems like it would have been some friend Maura felt really loyal to. Maybe one of the other nurses who was a friend? Someone whose career Maura felt shouldn't go down the drain? Wasn't it on Monday the 9th that Vasi's condition was upgraded -- so maybe someone whose career Maura didn't think needed to go down the drain because a drunk student stumbled off the curb in front of her especially if the student didn't seem like he was going to die but was recovering. I sort of doubt a drunk student stumbled off the curb. Sure, it could have happened, and it certainly does, but if you are familiar with Triangle St, you'll see the recurring damage caused by motor vehicles at the intersection of Triangle and Mattoon more often than you'll see students stumbling into traffic there. If a regular friend of Maura's borrowed her car and hit Vasi, Maura could still, if she wanted, reliably report the driver to police without fear of being accussed back, by the actual driver, of having hit Vasi herself. True, Maura might have reasons of her own, such as personal loyalty, for not reporting the Saturn's driver, at least not immediately, but she still could report the driver to LE without being afraid that the driver could immediately and reliably turn around and say that Maura was the one driving the Saturn when it hit Vasi. None of Maura's regular friends or family could turn around and say that she, Maura, was the one driving the Saturn when it hit Vasi.
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John
Alexandria, VA
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Beagle wrote: <quoted text>
You continue to distort, deliberately, I believe, every word I write.
I never wrote that someone STOLE Maura's car. Did I? No, I did not.
Did I say that Maura hit Vasi? Did I? No, I did not.
You write, "Your question,'why wouldn't Maura have reported that person?' is simply more unsubstantiated diversion."
Unsubstantiated diversion? It's a simple QUESTION.
This is a perfect example of twisting for your own ends the words I have written. If you don't think a Vasi hit is relevant, fine, disagree. If you really wanted to demonstrate a single strand of commitment to finding Maura, you might even try disagreeing logically.
Instead you say that a simple and potentially very revealing question is, as usual, a diversion. How can a very relevant question be an unsubstantiate diversion? This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard!
You know damn well what I'm getting at and you don't want it to gain any traction. Is this question something that will harm you? It's a simple question.
IF the Saturn, not stolen, but driven by someone other than Maura, hit Vasi, and if the driver told Maura about having hit Vasi, then why might Maura feel compelled to keep her mouth shut? What is the one scenario that is unlike all others?(If you want to try making it look like I'm talking about Fred, forget about it. I'm not.)
If you call thinking about this question a diversion, then that's shameless bashing and you are the one causing a diversion here.
Anne, go really wild. Really, if you're as committed to finding Maura as you say, then what is there to lose by an honest consideration of this quesion? Do you think you will get polio if you think about the question? Does the question have cooties? Think about this question. I promise the question will not hurt you. It is not a trick question and it is not a diversion. Yes, it eventually may lead nowhere, but that won't be any different from obsessing over a curve on Rt. 112 in Haverhill for five years with no results.
Are you committed to finding Maura? Or not? Because right now, it looks like you're committing to making sure she is not found. And I really would like to believe otherwise. This is insanity.
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John
Alexandria, VA
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Beagle wrote: <quoted text>Looking on both sides of the field means not calling a scenario based on a Vasi hit a diversion. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you think a Vasi theory doesn't hold water, then say why. But bashing it as a diversion is a stinging injustice to Maura and those who were close to her.
And while we're being frank with one another here, please tell me why you think I would create such a diversion. If you think I'm creating a diversion, then you must have some opinion why. What is it? Do you dare come out and state it? Or are you going to continue to make baseless accusations like so many others? GIVE IT A REST BEAGLE! SHE NEVER DISMISSED THE VASI HIT IDEA. YOU ARE PUTTING YOUR WIERD ASS EMOTIONAL NEEDS ON DISPLAY HERE.
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John
Alexandria, VA
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Snowy White wrote: <quoted text>
Thank you. Here here! Again, Beagle, when you are sane, you are right on target!
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John
Alexandria, VA
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Anne wrote: I will not go 'tit for tat' with you because you know damn well what I mean. I'll give it to you . you sure know how to twist things..goodnight, I sleep well, I don't know how you do. completely support you anne. Beagle willfully distorts with the seeming intention of derailing the discussion.
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John
Alexandria, VA
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Beagle wrote: <quoted text>Yeah, I basically doubt she disappeared voluntarily. Maybe, but seems a stretch after all this time and given what we know about her.
Very crazy case, that's for sure.
I think it was either propaganda firetruck or goose eggs ("oh no, eggs again!") who said that it's very normal for LE to show a video tape of a missing person, even a kidnapped person, taken just before they disappeared. Not so in this case.
I still urge people to think about why Maura, if the Saturn hit Vasi while being driven by someone other than Maura, would have been trapped into keeping her mouth shut about it all. Again, this is not about Fred. Thanks for this post. Reasonable questions. I have posited one idea. I wonder what you think of it. Would be very interested in your insights.
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John
Alexandria, VA
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LogicalSong wrote: If someone borrowed Maura's car, accidentally hit Vasi and then told Maura about it, seems like it would have been some friend Maura felt really loyal to. Maybe one of the other nurses who was a friend? Someone whose career Maura felt shouldn't go down the drain? Wasn't it on Monday the 9th that Vasi's condition was upgraded -- so maybe someone whose career Maura didn't think needed to go down the drain because a drunk student stumbled off the curb in front of her especially if the student didn't seem like he was going to die but was recovering. Well stated points. I don't know if you saw that I speculated that maybe it was someone she'd gotten romantically involved with. That would explain the loyalty. It would also put someone in the car with her in NH, which is important because various factors point to her not wanting to drive up there alone. But who knows, it is all speculation. It will be interesting, however, if and when a new bit of actual evidence comes along, to see how this group sorts it out. This group now is very familiar with so many aspects of the case, I bet some really valuable ideas could emerge in this forum is another peice of real evidence emerges.
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John
Alexandria, VA
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FireCat wrote: <quoted text>
John, he's since moved to Kentucky. A quick Google search will answer all your questions. Well, maybe not all, on second thought. Oh, I thought he said he left Kentucky and was teaching in WA. Thanks.
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Beagle
Amherst, MA
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Judged:
1
John wrote: <quoted text>
I think this is a good question. I have espoused a possibility on this point. Maura would not have been the first all American girl with straight As to have fallen for some kind of troubled, maybe older man. Just a theory, but a possibilty. What appeals to me about it is that it provides a connection between the Vasi incident and the call (which is a compelling coincidence), explains her on the road up north (because she was not by herself) and maybe provides some way to being understaning the vexing rag in the tail pipe. I went on and on about this in my part 1 and part 2 posts.
Again, not saying this is what happened, but a single theory that clarifies those three puzzling or intriguing facts, which - otherwise - cannot be explained simply, has some appeal for me, as least as a possibility worth thinking about.
Appreciate your post Beagle. Or maybe she drove west on Rt 9, over the Coolidge Bridge, took a right at the lights, and never made it to King St. But I agree that a secret lover is a possibility. Maura was obviously a very attractive young woman. Anyone could have fallen in love with her if they spent any time around her at all. Anyone, male or female. And that doesn't mean that Maura was aware of another person's yet unexpressed feelings for her. Which may have turned to rage.
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John
Alexandria, VA
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Beagle wrote: <quoted text>
I sort of doubt a drunk student stumbled off the curb. Sure, it could have happened, and it certainly does, but if you are familiar with Triangle St, you'll see the recurring damage caused by motor vehicles at the intersection of Triangle and Mattoon more often than you'll see students stumbling into traffic there.
If a regular friend of Maura's borrowed her car and hit Vasi, Maura could still, if she wanted, reliably report the driver to police without fear of being accussed back, by the actual driver, of having hit Vasi herself.
True, Maura might have reasons of her own, such as personal loyalty, for not reporting the Saturn's driver, at least not immediately, but she still could report the driver to LE without being afraid that the driver could immediately and reliably turn around and say that Maura was the one driving the Saturn when it hit Vasi.
None of Maura's regular friends or family could turn around and say that she, Maura, was the one driving the Saturn when it hit Vasi. These are good thoughts Beagle. Again, points me to a possible romantic connection. If she was seeing someone on the side, both guilt toward Rausch and loyalty toward the other guy well might have made her initially confused and reluctant to report it. Lets not forget that she was a VERY young girl and everyone, young or not, has vulnerabilities and sometimes make errors in judgment. Good post Beagle.
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Beagle
Amherst, MA
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John wrote: <quoted text>
These are good thoughts Beagle. Again, points me to a possible romantic connection. If she was seeing someone on the side, both guilt toward Rausch and loyalty toward the other guy well might have made her initially confused and reluctant to report it. Lets not forget that she was a VERY young girl and everyone, young or not, has vulnerabilities and sometimes make errors in judgment.
Good post Beagle. Maura might have been trapped into keeping her mouth shut not out of personal loyalty but out of fear. She may have been told that she would be REPORTED to LE as the driver of the car that hit Vasi by the person who was ACTUALLY driving the car.
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elsewherebriefly
Shallotte, NC
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John wrote: <quoted text>
This is a joke right? No it's not. Several months ago Adlen/Beagle compared me to Eric Rudolph and I had no idea what in the heck he was talking about.
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Beagle
Amherst, MA
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Judged:
1
"Look, when it gets dark, drive the car over here to my place. I've got some ideas. We'll do some slides and figure out the details. Okay?"
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Beagle
Amherst, MA
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Judged:
2
1
No, that's not true. But if it were, it would have been a charitable comparison.
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John
Alexandria, VA
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Beagle wrote: <quoted text>Or maybe she drove west on Rt 9, over the Coolidge Bridge, took a right at the lights, and never made it to King St.
But I agree that a secret lover is a possibility. Maura was obviously a very attractive young woman. Anyone could have fallen in love with her if they spent any time around her at all. Anyone, male or female. And that doesn't mean that Maura was aware of another person's yet unexpressed feelings for her. Which may have turned to rage. Agreed. This group needs another piece of hard evidence to drop. Given all consideration and hypothesizing, I bet this group would very quickly hone in on the significance and relevance of a new fact. I find the idea credible and worth considering. Suppose she was involved with someone unbeknownst to Rausch and her family and if she was really smitten with him (she was after all a very young girl who I know was a bit conflicted about some things in terms of the dirction of her life ... which I picked up on in reading about her West Point experience). If that was the case, and the other person hit Vasi in her car, she would have had strong feelings of both guilt toward Raush and family and loyalty toward the person she was involved with, not to mention - as you suggested - anger and even a feeling of being trapped because she would not have wanted dad and Rausch to find out about her affair in the context of this accident. This idea also is consistent with a shred of circumstantial evidence: her at once sappy and distant email communications with Rausch. Under this scenario, the couple could easily have decided to get out of dodge to consider the situation and try to get their thoughts together. Maybe at some point they decided to stage an accident. That, for me, is an explanation of how the car ends up going east on 112, although I concede the valid contrary viewpooints of Anne and Suzanne on this issue. Finally, not being alone leads to some conceivable scenarios under which the rag gets in the tail pipe, whereas if she was alone no way. In all this, Beagle, let me say that I see both sides of the field as being relevant. There is Amherst stuff behind this, at least in terms of good explanations for how she got there (if in fact she did). As for what happened, I don't have much to say at this point. I can't even begin to summon a guess. It may have been simply wrong place at wrong time. There are a lot of registered sex offenders up ther (per capita, anyway) and a high rate of violent crime (per capita). Anyway, good post dude.
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John
Alexandria, VA
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Beagle wrote: <quoted text>
Maura might have been trapped into keeping her mouth shut not out of personal loyalty but out of fear. She may have been told that she would be REPORTED to LE as the driver of the car that hit Vasi by the person who was ACTUALLY driving the car. Rigt on, I agree. If this is what you mean by Amherst angle, I am with you. There is a lot in Amherst that seems to clue the ultimate answer.
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John
Alexandria, VA
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elsewherebriefly wrote: <quoted text>
No it's not.
Several months ago Adlen/Beagle compared me to Eric Rudolph and I had no idea what in the heck he was talking about. Baffling. That dude Beagle has a lot of really good things to say, but he gets off on this accusatory, conspiracy based paranoia and it just gets annoying. But then he comes up with these really lucid ideas as well. Baffling.
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elsewherebriefly
Shallotte, NC
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Judged:
2
Beagle wrote: No, that's not true. But if it were, it would have been a charitable comparison. Alden, I had to google the dude and asked myself why you were comparing me to someone who was responsible for bombing abortion clinics. I'm not about to dig back and find the actual post. It's your word against mine and I'll leave it at that.
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John
Alexandria, VA
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Judged:
1
Beagle wrote: "Look, when it gets dark, drive the car over here to my place. I've got some ideas. We'll do some slides and figure out the details. Okay?" Who is this addressed to? what does it mean?
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John
Alexandria, VA
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I wish there were a way for this group to combine its knowledge into a detailed timeline that showed various levels of informatoin:(1) undisputed facts,(2) supposed or questioned assertions fact,(3) interpretations of facts, and (4) out and out speculations. I wonder if this group were able to combine its knowledge into such a product, whether upon examining it some different insights might come to light.
I cannot claim to moved by compassion, although I have the type of human compasssion toward Maura and the Murray and Rausch that you would expect: I didn't know them. It is a terrible story, but not close to me. My interest here is that this whole story is FASCINATING. It would be great if, for the Murray's sake, an answer could be known. But I also just want to know because it is such an interesting mystery.
So many ideas have been kicked around her. If the mechanism existed to stitch these ideas togehter into a single fabric that showed facts, theories and speculations on a timeline, I bet it would yield new and potentially valuable perspectives.
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